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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 12:12:53 GMT -5
Sam Amick (The Athletic) did a piece reiterating Boston's interest in Harrison Barnes. Talks about how it lines up well with what he thinks might be Boston's plan to improve now while also preparing for FA of 2023 (the next grouping of big names, potentially).
Also, did I miss a C's broadcast where someone said Boston offered 3 1sts for Jerami Grant? The A-List had Edwards III on and they mentioned that. I, admittedly, haven't been watching the broadcasts much. FWIW, the folks on that (JEIII, A Sherod Blakely and Kwani A. Lunis) all made it sound like it came off as Danny pushing that rumor.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 13:15:25 GMT -5
I'd offer three first for Grant, 2021, 2023 and 2025. There at that point with Tatum and Brown. Grant might just be good enough to get you a Championship if it only cost you those picks.
You know the Pistons were like well we want Pritchard, Robert Williams and picks or something like that.
In a bunch of ways Barnes makes sense if the cost is right. Yet what does he cost? Is he good enough to make you legit no questions asked title contenders? I ask because he's almost 29 and he's going to take you deep into the tax for the next two years. He likely cost a couple of first round picks. So you are basically all in with him.
Aaron Gordon is over three years younger, guys like Ball give you potentially years and years to go for it. They have upsides left. Even Grant is two years younger than Barnes.
I do find looking at cap space in 2023 interesting. I've just assumed that Smart and Robert Williams getting new deals would mean you'd have none by then unless there's some huge jump in the cap.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 10, 2021 13:39:38 GMT -5
Harrison Barnes is a worse defender than Wayne Ellington. Just saying!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 14:32:37 GMT -5
Harrison Barnes is a worse defender than Wayne Ellington. Just saying! You base that off of what? I certainly have questions about how good his D is, the defensive stats on him don't match, yet nothing says he's worse. Unless you're not taking into account Ellington is basically the worst defender on a decent defensive team and Barnes isn't close to the worst defender on the worst defensive team in the league. Hence the per 100 defensive ratings difference. Real plus minus has him positive the last three years, which is crazy interesting given the players he played with. Defensive box score has him a minus 1.5, yet still better than Ellington's minus 1.7. Adjust for the difference in talent around them and Barnes is likely better and Ellington is likely worse than those numbers show. Go look at Hayward everyone used those advanced stats to show he was a good defender, yet his numbers tank on a not good defensive team. I think Barnes is likely better than Hayward. That's not saying much, yet he's not a guy teams are going to pick on. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2021 16:07:35 GMT -5
Trading for Grant would both excite and scare the crap out of me.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 16:08:08 GMT -5
Keith Smith (in a piece for CelticsBlog) put together a list of targets (Big edition) at the deadline:
Quick summary:
Calls the need "moderate"
Vucevic probably not realistic. Should make an offer for Collins if he's available. Drummond/Turner don't make much sense (cost/benefit - wise).
Horford probably not good enough to warrant the tax bill. Tucker = attainable. Bjelica - if nothing else? Baynes - maybe if they trade a big in another deal. Birch probably not better than what they have.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 16:36:40 GMT -5
Smith's Wing Targets (need = HIGH)
Forget Jerami Grant. Gordon more likely than Grant but Orlando not likely selling. Ross is likely the replacement for Fournier (see below). OG isn't happening.
More likely candidates:
Barnes ("Protected 1st + young Wing likely gets it done") makes so much sense. Fournier is the 1 guy Orlando might trade and would be a "if that's the best we can do" option. C's are better off looking at someone other than Oladipo. DeRozan's pending Free Agency probably makes him a bad fit. Ellington (a 2nd or 2 - maybe even adding Edwards) is a small but smart move to round out the bench. Would leave all TPE's intact.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 10, 2021 17:30:41 GMT -5
You base that off of what? I certainly have questions about how good his D is, the defensive stats on him don't match, yet nothing says he's worse. Unless you're not taking into account Ellington is basically the worst defender on a decent defensive team and Barnes isn't close to the worst defender on the worst defensive team in the league. Hence the per 100 defensive ratings difference. Over the past 5 seasons, Barnes had a worse defensive box plus/minus than Ellington. Point is, you surely can't advocate getting Barnes and be against Ellington because of how they play defense. They're both bad. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 17:33:39 GMT -5
So he means protected first and either Langford/Nesmith? If it was a first and Green I'd do it all day long, heck even Grant Williams. I don't like selling low on two late lottery picks. I'm a big Langford fan, Nesmith not as much, yet I trust Danny. Those are the kinda trades that could bite you in the ass. Joe Johnson say hello Celtics fans. I think I'd prefer just two picks, let them make crappy picks so the trade looks better long-term.
Come on Danny, that team could actually use a Grant Williams. A very smart player that plays 100% every game 😂
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 17:38:06 GMT -5
So he means protected first and either Langford/Nesmith? If it was a first and Green I'd do it all day long, heck even Grant Williams. I don't like selling low on two late lottery picks. I'm a big Langford fan, Nesmith not as much, yet I trust Danny. Those are the kinda trades that could bite you in the ass. Joe Johnson say hello Celtics fans. I think I'd prefer just two picks, let them make crappy picks so the trade looks better long-term. Come on Danny, that team could actually use a Grant Williams. A very smart player that plays 100% every game 😂 Yes. Either Langford or Nesmith. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2021 18:08:23 GMT -5
Why is everyone ignoring the fact Tucker is old and has sucked this year?
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 10, 2021 18:19:46 GMT -5
Why is everyone ignoring the fact Tucker is old and has sucked this year? Tucker shouldn't be a target unless Danny gets an ayahuasca induced epiphany that's like 5 levels deeper than the rest of us can see. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 18:36:19 GMT -5
You base that off of what? I certainly have questions about how good his D is, the defensive stats on him don't match, yet nothing says he's worse. Unless you're not taking into account Ellington is basically the worst defender on a decent defensive team and Barnes isn't close to the worst defender on the worst defensive team in the league. Hence the per 100 defensive ratings difference. Over the past 5 seasons, Barnes had a worse defensive box plus/minus than Ellington. Point is, you surely can't advocate getting Barnes and be against Ellington because of how they play defense. They're both bad. Don you get those numbers are team based right? Used to calculate win shares, it's not a number that is adjusted so you can compare every player. That's why I looked at the whole Detroit roster and where he ranked on that team to judge his D. Those numbers are all relative to who he's playing with. Those Kings teams are so bad Whitehead has a negative number for the first time in his career.
ESPN real plus minus adjusts numbers so you can compare them.
I certainly can and explained why in my post above. Barnes would be like Hayward here somewhere in that ballpark, Ellington is likely right around the same. If you used him with Smart and Walker his numbers would just get worse. The reason? Barnes fits into Haywards role, Ellington doesn't
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 18:37:08 GMT -5
While it wouldn't surprise me if Tuckers performance this year is due in some part to being on a bad team (and his lack of interest in being on it), I agree with passing on Tucker.
Meanwhile if Grant is a no-go and Ellington (at least for some, is a meh), how do folks think about approaching Deteoit on Delon Wright?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 18:38:22 GMT -5
So he means protected first and either Langford/Nesmith? If it was a first and Green I'd do it all day long, heck even Grant Williams. I don't like selling low on two late lottery picks. I'm a big Langford fan, Nesmith not as much, yet I trust Danny. Those are the kinda trades that could bite you in the ass. Joe Johnson say hello Celtics fans. I think I'd prefer just two picks, let them make crappy picks so the trade looks better long-term. Come on Danny, that team could actually use a Grant Williams. A very smart player that plays 100% every game 😂 Yes. Either Langford or Nesmith. I don't like that, much prefer just two first round draft picks. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 18:45:23 GMT -5
While it wouldn't surprise me if Tuckers performance this year is due in some part to being on a bad team (and his lack of interest in being on it), I agree with passing on Tucker. Meanwhile if Grant is a no-go and Ellington (at least for some, is a meh), how do folks think about approaching Deteoit on Delon Wright? Sure yet what's the cost? He'd be a big upgrade over Teague, give you Kemba insurance. Toronto developed him, so he plays the right way. Would they take Grant Williams and a 2nd round pick? |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 18:51:48 GMT -5
Not sure the cost bc I habent read anything suggesting he's a target. Dont know the leaguewide perception of Grant W.
I think I'd give up a 1st (to avoid giving up one of the wings).
Gotta think hes available with Hayes being their guy and being in range of another ball handling guyvat the top of this years draft.
Though I just looked and hes almost 29 (that shocks me as much as Grant only being 26) so i feel worse about the 1st than i did before.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 19:15:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't do a first, though I'll kick myself if Walker goes down or turns into a pumpkin again. That's the thing with him, if Walker is healthy I don't see a huge role in the playoffs for him. You'd have to use like 40% of the trade exception and add a ten million contract for next year.
Don't get me wrong, he's the perfect backup PG for a team with Kemba Walker. It's just a lot for a backup PG.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 6:59:38 GMT -5
I wouldn't do a first, though I'll kick myself if Walker goes down or turns into a pumpkin again. That's the thing with him, if Walker is healthy I don't see a huge role in the playoffs for him. You'd have to use like 40% of the trade exception and add a ten million contract for next year. Don't get me wrong, he's the perfect backup PG for a team with Kemba Walker. It's just a lot for a backup PG. If Walker goes down or turns into a pumpkin is there any move this team can make that still has them a possible contender this season? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 9:36:48 GMT -5
Aldridge and the Spurs are parting ways. Working for a trade... wonder if it will end in a buyout tho.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 11, 2021 11:30:23 GMT -5
Is LMAo even an upgrade over Theis at this point in his career?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2021 11:52:36 GMT -5
I wouldn't do a first, though I'll kick myself if Walker goes down or turns into a pumpkin again. That's the thing with him, if Walker is healthy I don't see a huge role in the playoffs for him. You'd have to use like 40% of the trade exception and add a ten million contract for next year. Don't get me wrong, he's the perfect backup PG for a team with Kemba Walker. It's just a lot for a backup PG. If Walker goes down or turns into a pumpkin is there any move this team can make that still has them a possible contender this season? Sure there is, a bunch actually. It's like people have forgotten how bad he was, just the difference on D with guys like Ball and Wright is massive. Actually having a PG run the offense is literally the biggest difference any player can make on this team. Walker isn't some great PG, yet you see the difference when he actually plays PG versus SG. To go another route if you got Barnes, you could just play Theis/Williams, Barnes, Tatum, Brown and Smart. You'd be thin, 100% relying on Smart running the offense, yet you'd be a much better defensive team. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2021 11:58:40 GMT -5
Aldridge has been removed from a playoff team, if they can't trade him they are going to buy him out. He's done, I don't know if he even has a PJ Brown like role left in him.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451 
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Post by ianrs on Mar 11, 2021 12:26:30 GMT -5
Is LMAo even an upgrade over Theis at this point in his career? No. He's a fineish backup 4 who can't really defend, so probably totally cooked. Maybe could help someone like the Blazers. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 11, 2021 13:12:16 GMT -5
Actually having a PG run the offense is literally the biggest difference any player can make on this team. Walker isn't some great PG, yet you see the difference when he actually plays PG versus SG. I actually don't think the problem is who's running the offense, but rather the change in the Stevens offense. Remember how it used to be? Guys spaced out, cutting a lot, dribble handoffs and other cool stuff. The past 2 seasons they have been running a much simpler offense, based largely on ISO and guys sitting around waiting for the ball. Which to me is Stevens overcorrecting and trying to build around the God-like individual games of Brown and Tatum. It's not Kemba's fault that guys stopped moving. |
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