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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 13:11:26 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on May 12, 2021 13:26:14 GMT -5
Hey Danny... all those great picks you nailed, don’t count. You’re supposed to do it.
All those picks you didn’t make, they count but only against you.
Those other picks you made don’t count because they are listed under another team.
Oh and you’re irrelevant because you’ve been injured and hit hard by COViD so obviously you suck and it’s because of draft picks.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 13:39:11 GMT -5
I’m anxious to hear and read your research on what the success rate of first round picks is ..... waiting... But YOU are the one that is trying to pawn off your opinion as fact so the onus is on YOU. We've told you where your support is lacking but you continue to omit it. - No support for what is expected in the range where Danny made the picks (#3 <> #14 <> #27 yet your conclusion suggests they have equal expectations) - No comparison to other GMs (you keep saying what other GMs would do with that many picks without a spec of information to support that) - Originally, you were ignoring Brown/Tatum even though Danny did what other GMs would likely not have. And your primary focus was on players where you would expect to get exactly what Danny has gotten (or more) in many cases. Your last post has, at least backed off the Brown/Tatum omission. I was giving you a little credit for the last post bc it's the first time you provided anything other than some form of "look at their record". But you're still making an empty comparison. Crazy thing is that if you had just said "I'm disappointed Danny didn't do more with the draft cache" or "it feels like he should've done more with what he had" (or something like those), we wouldn't have had much to say (and some might agree). But instead you chose to propose it as analytical fact. Pretty sure you're taking some heat in the mlb draft thread for attempting to propose your opinion as fact. All we are asking is for you to either make clear it's just an opinion (one possibly not supported by fact) or support it analytically since you are proposing it as such. I provided the evidence. 38%. AND a hall of famer who says he agrees. So what evidence do you have in wrong?? I said he’s average at best. So show evidence I’m wrong?? 38% sure doesn’t seem to good to me. And question I asked is what is the success rate then?? And basically you say find it yourself which tells me you don’t know it either. So what exactly is your opinion based off? Tatum and brown?? Both guys ranked in top 4 of draft at time they were picked? You say I’m so wrong but provide zilch for evidence that I’m wrong. ( and don’t list names. I included as successes.... I already listed those names ). As for record—. I’m directly saying the misuse of those picks has helped in our current situation. And that falls directly on Danny ainge and his team of evaluators. If I’m so wrong or off base. Sweet give the evidence I’m wrong. I want to be honestly. Because at this point I have zero faith that our current evaluators can lead us out of this mess |
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 13:42:49 GMT -5
Hey Danny... all those great picks you nailed, don’t count. You’re supposed to do it. All those picks you didn’t make, they count but only against you. Those other picks you made don’t count because they are listed under another team. Oh and you’re irrelevant because you’ve been injured and hit hard by COViD so obviously you suck and it’s because of draft picks. And those picks are counted in the 38% and 21%. He gets credit for them. But he doesn’t get credit to say he’s a great drafter. Again... I’ll wait for your evidence beyond listing players I already listed. Covid hit. Injuries hit. That’s why you have depth. Depth we didn’t have and should have with 21 first round picks in 10 years!! Again. Prove me wrong that .38 isn’t average at best |
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 13:54:35 GMT -5
Example that Thybal pick turned into Edwards and the Bucks 2021 first, then two second round picks. While shedding the salary of Baynes and Kanter. Those picks are in 2023 and 2025. We then traded a 2027 second round pick and the lesser pick of ours or the Grizz 2025 pick for Fournier. It also allowed you to sign a max free agent in Walker. He kinda pulled a Bill with that pick, in that it's getting you value in many different ways and you still have picks outstanding. Who would think thybal is as good as edwards ( who can’t even crack rotation and will be released after this year). And the bucks first was used to shed payroll this year to sign..... Tristan Thompson. Who has been soooo good ( sarcasm) at more than cost of kanter. And walker has been worth so much more than our point guard we had at that time who we traded in the walker deal. Now I will say Fournier isn’t bad. So forgot him in the deals. But quite honestly. How is thybal any worse than Fournier alone ( without those deals had he just taken thybal)? Again average doesn’t mean horrible. So he will have some wins. But average is average. Eh. Ok. But not great by any means which is what many on this board have made him out to be. Great |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2021 14:02:29 GMT -5
Wow you can't even list the players Danny drafted, you're including trades that had other teams making those picks. Danny didn't draft Brooks, he drafted Johnson. It was KO not Lucas, we never drafted Thybal or Bane, we traded the picks. You want to grade those trade go right ahead, yet if you want to bitch about Danny's drafting record, actually know who he picked. This is getting comical! We owned those draft picks!! 21. I’m saying his use of draft picks is average at best. Even an nba ball of famer has said so. He didn’t trade those picks for anyone so Celtics owned 21 first round draft picks. Period Yeah actually he did trade picks for people, as I have literally explained in detail. Lol at you taking Charles Barkley's split second thoughts and thinking that proves anything. I bet he couldn't name 25% of the picks. Nevermind what they could have done or other players they could have picked. You want to use Barkley's comments based on a game he's watching, okay that makes sense. Yet Barkley has never been a GM or worked in the front office. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2021 14:16:29 GMT -5
Example that Thybal pick turned into Edwards and the Bucks 2021 first, then two second round picks. While shedding the salary of Baynes and Kanter. Those picks are in 2023 and 2025. We then traded a 2027 second round pick and the lesser pick of ours or the Grizz 2025 pick for Fournier. It also allowed you to sign a max free agent in Walker. He kinda pulled a Bill with that pick, in that it's getting you value in many different ways and you still have picks outstanding. Who would think thybal is as good as edwards ( who can’t even crack rotation and will be released after this year). And the bucks first was used to shed payroll this year to sign..... Tristan Thompson. Who has been soooo good ( sarcasm) at more than cost of kanter. And walker has been worth so much more than our point guard we had at that time who we traded in the walker deal. Now I will say Fournier isn’t bad. So forgot him in the deals. But quite honestly. How is thybal any worse than Fournier alone ( without those deals had he just taken thybal)? Again average doesn’t mean horrible. So he will have some wins. But average is average. Eh. Ok. But not great by any means which is what many on this board have made him out to be. Great Maybe because Thybulle averages 3.9 points? He's basically Langford without the offensive upside while being two years older. I'm so confused you bash Danny's drafting, yet think Thybulle is some player equal to Fournier?? He's not average, at worst he's well above average ranging to one of the best in the game at drafting. Now some recent trades, signings and roster building haven't been great. You're attacking the wrong thing and this is even crazier than before given what's happened since you last did this. You've had Nesmith look like a good future player and Langford show you at worst he's going to a crazy good defender. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2021 14:18:55 GMT -5
Hey Danny... all those great picks you nailed, don’t count. You’re supposed to do it. All those picks you didn’t make, they count but only against you. Those other picks you made don’t count because they are listed under another team. Oh and you’re irrelevant because you’ve been injured and hit hard by COViD so obviously you suck and it’s because of draft picks. And those picks are counted in the 38% and 21%. He gets credit for them. But he doesn’t get credit to say he’s a great drafter. Again... I’ll wait for your evidence beyond listing players I already listed. Covid hit. Injuries hit. That’s why you have depth. Depth we didn’t have and should have with 21 first round picks in 10 years!! Again. Prove me wrong that .38 isn’t average at best 38% and 21% are lies because you won't even look at who he actually drafted. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 12, 2021 14:26:03 GMT -5
Honestly, you own the Trump card because of Charles Barkley. He’s so well known for being a knowledgeable student of the game that it’s not worth even trying.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 12, 2021 14:28:52 GMT -5
No Kemba, Smart, RobWill or Brown tonight.
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Post by dangermike on May 12, 2021 14:33:16 GMT -5
im done talking about the draft picks- its the whole board vs one dude who doesnt seem to know hes super wrong. i feel like its a good time to move on...
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Post by rjp313jr on May 12, 2021 14:36:29 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on May 12, 2021 15:24:08 GMT -5
Hey Danny... all those great picks you nailed, don’t count. You’re supposed to do it. All those picks you didn’t make, they count but only against you. Those other picks you made don’t count because they are listed under another team. Oh and you’re irrelevant because you’ve been injured and hit hard by COViD so obviously you suck and it’s because of draft picks. And those picks are counted in the 38% and 21%. He gets credit for them. But he doesn’t get credit to say he’s a great drafter. Again... I’ll wait for your evidence beyond listing players I already listed. Covid hit. Injuries hit. That’s why you have depth. Depth we didn’t have and should have with 21 first round picks in 10 years!! Again. Prove me wrong that .38 isn’t average at best But YOU are the one stating an opinion as a fact (something you've been called out on elsewhere). Even if that 38% wasn't flawed (assuming RJ Hunter is a "failure" when it's just as likley his career is what you'd expect out of the #28 pick), saying this is what the average GM would do is an OPINION. To turn it into a fact (and prove that you are not doing what you've been warned not to do in other threads), you need to provide a comparison. If that's no better than average, you'd need to prove that 50% of the GMs during that timeframe have done as well or better than that (though, again, your 38% is fact). Since you haven't done that, you are providing an opinion and insisting it's fact. PS - I don't even know if Danny is a good drafter or bad. I'm not defending that (not without doing the work). I'm just defending math, analytics, logic and reason at this point. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 12, 2021 16:01:27 GMT -5
And those picks are counted in the 38% and 21%. He gets credit for them. But he doesn’t get credit to say he’s a great drafter. Again... I’ll wait for your evidence beyond listing players I already listed. Covid hit. Injuries hit. That’s why you have depth. Depth we didn’t have and should have with 21 first round picks in 10 years!! Again. Prove me wrong that .38 isn’t average at best But YOU are the one stating an opinion as a fact (something you've been called out on elsewhere). Even if that 38% wasn't flawed (assuming RJ Hunter is a "failure" when it's just as likley his career is what you'd expect out of the #28 pick), saying this is what the average GM would do is an OPINION. To turn it into a fact (and prove that you are not doing what you've been warned not to do in other threads), you need to provide a comparison. If that's no better than average, you'd need to prove that 50% of the GMs during that timeframe have done as well or better than that (though, again, your 38% is fact). Since you haven't done that, you are providing an opinion and insisting it's fact. PS - I don't even know if Danny is a good drafter or bad. I'm not defending that (not without doing the work). I'm just defending math, analytics, logic and reason at this point. Read my post above yours. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 12, 2021 18:45:38 GMT -5
Oh we play again tonight? Jesus Christ...
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Post by jmei on May 12, 2021 19:27:59 GMT -5
Honestly, just getting the Tatum and Brown picks right are worth more than the next twenty mid/low first rounders combined. The surplus value of Tatum as compared to Fultz or Ball or Josh Jackson (the next three picks) and the surplus value of Brown as compared to Dragan Bender or Kris Dunn or Buddy Hield is enormous. It’s not a gimme that you nail top five picks (just look at those names!) and the Celtics ended up with arguably the two best players from those drafts (harder for Brown, who is up against Simmons, Sabonis and Ingram, but it’s at least a discussion).
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Post by voiceofreason on May 12, 2021 19:45:29 GMT -5
Honestly, just getting the Tatum and Brown picks right are worth more than the next twenty mid/low first rounders combined. The surplus value of Tatum as compared to Fultz or Ball or Josh Jackson (the next three picks) and the surplus value of Brown as compared to Dragan Bender or Kris Dunn or Buddy Hield is enormous. It’s not a gimme that you nail top five picks (just look at those names!) and the Celtics ended up with arguably the two best players from those drafts (harder for Brown, who is up against Simmons, Sabonis and Ingram, but it’s at least a discussion). These arguments have been made ad nauseam but someone is still arguing that Danny Is a bad drafter. You have been a way for a while but somethings never change, like someone who just won't stop. |
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 19:52:42 GMT -5
We owned those draft picks!! 21. I’m saying his use of draft picks is average at best. Even an nba ball of famer has said so. He didn’t trade those picks for anyone so Celtics owned 21 first round draft picks. Period Yeah actually he did trade picks for people, as I have literally explained in detail. Lol at you taking Charles Barkley's split second thoughts and thinking that proves anything. I bet he couldn't name 25% of the picks. Nevermind what they could have done or other players they could have picked. You want to use Barkley's comments based on a game he's watching, okay that makes sense. Yet Barkley has never been a GM or worked in the front office. For anyone. Ie nobody of value!! |
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 12, 2021 19:58:24 GMT -5
29% shooting percentage.....yikes.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 20:10:46 GMT -5
Who would think thybal is as good as edwards ( who can’t even crack rotation and will be released after this year). And the bucks first was used to shed payroll this year to sign..... Tristan Thompson. Who has been soooo good ( sarcasm) at more than cost of kanter. And walker has been worth so much more than our point guard we had at that time who we traded in the walker deal. Now I will say Fournier isn’t bad. So forgot him in the deals. But quite honestly. How is thybal any worse than Fournier alone ( without those deals had he just taken thybal)? Again average doesn’t mean horrible. So he will have some wins. But average is average. Eh. Ok. But not great by any means which is what many on this board have made him out to be. Great Maybe because Thybulle averages 3.9 points? He's basically Langford without the offensive upside while being two years older. I'm so confused you bash Danny's drafting, yet think Thybulle is some player equal to Fournier?? He's not average, at worst he's well above average ranging to one of the best in the game at drafting. Now some recent trades, signings and roster building haven't been great. You're attacking the wrong thing and this is even crazier than before given what's happened since you last did this. You've had Nesmith look like a good future player and Langford show you at worst he's going to a crazy good defender. Based off what analytical stats? I’m still waiting for someone to show their analytical stats showing he’s such a great drafter. I’ve shown. 38% success. And 21% if you don’t count top 6 draft picks. All you have is name calling and trying to drag someone down foe their opinion based on facts. I’m still waiting for your facts to show he’s such an above average drafter. Until you can show that. I guess we both accept it’s opinion based. And I can respect that your a Danny ainge fan based off opinion. But nothing you have shown is anymore than mine for analytical evidence. If anything you’ve provided much less analytical evidence. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 12, 2021 20:33:50 GMT -5
Maybe because Thybulle averages 3.9 points? He's basically Langford without the offensive upside while being two years older. I'm so confused you bash Danny's drafting, yet think Thybulle is some player equal to Fournier?? He's not average, at worst he's well above average ranging to one of the best in the game at drafting. Now some recent trades, signings and roster building haven't been great. You're attacking the wrong thing and this is even crazier than before given what's happened since you last did this. You've had Nesmith look like a good future player and Langford show you at worst he's going to a crazy good defender. Based off what analytical stats? I’m still waiting for someone to show their analytical stats showing he’s such a great drafter. I’ve shown. 38% success. And 21% if you don’t count top 6 draft picks. All you have is name calling and trying to drag someone down foe their opinion based on facts. I’m still waiting for your facts to show he’s such an above average drafter. Until you can show that. I guess we both accept it’s opinion based. And I can respect that your a Danny ainge fan based off opinion. But nothing you have shown is anymore than mine for analytical evidence. If anything you’ve provided much less analytical evidence. I pointed out win share rankings of guys you act like they aren't good! That's literally more stats than you've every used. Go read what RJP posted above, there's your analytical stats, saying what we've all been telling you. |
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Post by dyoungteach on May 12, 2021 20:43:00 GMT -5
Based off what analytical stats? I’m still waiting for someone to show their analytical stats showing he’s such a great drafter. I’ve shown. 38% success. And 21% if you don’t count top 6 draft picks. All you have is name calling and trying to drag someone down foe their opinion based on facts. I’m still waiting for your facts to show he’s such an above average drafter. Until you can show that. I guess we both accept it’s opinion based. And I can respect that your a Danny ainge fan based off opinion. But nothing you have shown is anymore than mine for analytical evidence. If anything you’ve provided much less analytical evidence. I pointed out win share rankings of guys you act like they aren't good! That's literally more stats than you've every used. Go read what RJP posted above, there's your analytical stats, saying what we've all been telling you. Good article. I didn’t see that post before. I guess we shall see where things end up. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 12, 2021 20:59:29 GMT -5
Evan Fournier is a TANK COMMANDER!
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 12, 2021 21:05:01 GMT -5
wow - up to 33% shooting. Issue is Cle is at 43%. Fitting limp into the end of the season.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on May 12, 2021 21:43:02 GMT -5
Get into that lottery baby!
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