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Post by philarhody on May 13, 2021 5:09:36 GMT -5
After reading the last couple pages, I’m glad that we have mostly been galvanized in the understanding that Danny Ainge’s drafting is not the problem on this team.
This is a pretty loaded team that has greatly underperformed. It is a team that has been hit by adversity and responded poorly.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 13, 2021 7:19:21 GMT -5
This is the crap I've been talking about all year with Pritchard. Get him ready, hand him the keys in games like this. So he would be ready when you needed him.
In a game where you struggle to score, why the heck didn't Parker play?
If you wanted them to tank, that sure seems like what they are doing. If you're going to do that, sit Tatum and at least let us see Nesmith, Langford and Pritchard play 30 minutes. Give us a little Taco just for fun.
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Post by philarhody on May 13, 2021 8:00:33 GMT -5
This is the crap I've been talking about all year with Pritchard. Get him ready, hand him the keys in games like this. So he would be ready when you needed him. In a game where you struggle to score, why the heck didn't Parker play? If you wanted them to tank, that sure seems like what they are doing. If you're going to do that, sit Tatum and at least let us see Nesmith, Langford and Pritchard play 30 minutes. Give us a little Taco just for fun. I completely agree with this Umass. I have not been critical of Brad prior to this season. But the young guys who play hard every single possession (Nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, Tacko) have been squeezed out of the rotation.
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Post by philarhody on May 13, 2021 8:04:52 GMT -5
I am very concerned about this team moving forward. Tatum and Brown are gifted scorers who have become complacent defensively.
And they aren’t Jordan and Kobe. And those guys were only championship winners when the triangle forced touches throughout the team.
A big part of me worries that Tatum and Brown are going to view this season as a success. They’ve gotten paid. They’re all stars. Some scrubs are going to put Tatum on their all nba team. They both average 25 a game. And if not for the hustle of Smart, Rob, Thompson, Nesmith, Pritchard etc, this would be a lottery team.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on May 13, 2021 8:08:02 GMT -5
Zero part of me thinks they’re looking at this season as a success, Jaylen and Jayson are the least of my concerns
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 13, 2021 8:45:14 GMT -5
I just want to ask Steven's why I the world did you play 11 players last game? Yet no Parker who's looked very good scoring since he's been here. If there was a game you should shorten your bench, this was the game.
Even with everyone out, you still had the best player and equal talent to that team. Yet it's like Isiah Thomas said years ago, he always is trying something new. He always wants to be creative. A big part of Tom Thibodeau turning around the Knicks was shortening his bench. He's done a great job with a team that isn't really that talented. Yet his team plays hard and guys know there roles.
It's why we do better in the playoffs when he shortens the bench and does less of that crap. Games like this have to make you take a good hard look at Steven's. He needs a former head coach as his top assistant. Unless his goal was to not win, if that was the case good job.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 13, 2021 11:44:43 GMT -5
2 games left. Win one, punt the other one, finish .500 and I'll be ok all things considered. Sounds like a plan?
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Post by jodyreidnichols on May 13, 2021 20:20:12 GMT -5
After reading the last couple pages, I’m glad that we have mostly been galvanized in the understanding that Danny Ainge’s drafting is not the problem on this team. This is a pretty loaded team that has greatly underperformed. It is a team that has been hit by adversity and responded poorly. true, however they amount of games missed both due to injury and Covid is an excuse in equal part. No-one ever likes to admit these things but some years uts just the reality of the situation
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Post by rjp313jr on May 14, 2021 5:20:21 GMT -5
I am very concerned about this team moving forward. Tatum and Brown are gifted scorers who have become complacent defensively. And they aren’t Jordan and Kobe. And those guys were only championship winners when the triangle forced touches throughout the team. A big part of me worries that Tatum and Brown are going to view this season as a success. They’ve gotten paid. They’re all stars. Some scrubs are going to put Tatum on their all nba team. They both average 25 a game. And if not for the hustle of Smart, Rob, Thompson, Nesmith, Pritchard etc, this would be a lottery team. Kobe became a champion when Shaq got into his true Prime at 28 and Jordan also won his first Title after turning 28. Tatum and Brown are 23 and 24, yet people expect them to be consistent super stars and polished. It doesn’t happen this way. Just look at Jimmy Butler play... he’s not more talented than either of them but he’s a man, he’s in control, he knows what to do and when to do it. He wasn’t always that way, it’s being a veteran. It’s frustrating and we know the talent is there so anything is possible, but at some point we need to step back and look at things rationally. Guys coming into the NBA at 19 take A LOT of years to hit their peak maturity in their games
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 14, 2021 9:02:16 GMT -5
That's the thing with the Celtics, the whole team isn't crazy young! You have guys in their primes with Walker, Smart, Fournier and Thompson.
I don't mind losing in the playoffs in 2018, age was certainly an issue. Yet they played hard and went out swinging. 2019 was a shit show with Irving literally killing the team single handily. 2020 was you ran into a Heat team that played great team ball. There ball movement in the paint killed our D and Walker injury was just too much. I might have bitched at the time, yet zero issues. They played hard. We'll see what happens, yet if they don't play hard and they haven't been lately don't give me excuses!
Way too many games where this teams acts like they only need to play hard for a half to win. Way too much acting like they can flip a switch. Example first half of that first Heat game. Don't give me injuries, Covid, age, etc, that was just lack of effort!
So if they play hard and lose I really don't care, yet if they play half assed, heads need to role. The NBA is a long season and you can't play crazy hard every minute of every game. The coach comes out and says the rest of the season is like the playoffs and you give up 78 points in a half to the Heat.
Looking at Tatum, I don't care if he has off shooting nights. That crap happens, yet he better play D hard all game long! I'd point out our young guys were brought into a winning culture, they were show the right way to play since day one. That's not your typical lottery picks, that play on crappy teams for years. A guy like Tatum has more playoff experience than most people his age.
Go look at Michael Jordan's age 22 playoffs, that's not he wasn't ready, that's he didn't have a good enough team around him! He only averaged 43.7 points, 6.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 2.3 steals and 1.3 blocks while playing 45 minutes a game.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 14, 2021 20:46:27 GMT -5
www.google.com/amp/s/www.celticsblog.com/platform/amp/2021/5/14/22436867/gary-washburn-time-for-new-voices-in-celtics-front-office-boston-nbaInteresting article. Burried in the article is this statement: “ “Get some guys in your organization who know the league, better talent evaluators, and guys who can assess and draft better,” Washburn said” I realize the article shown said well we are really good at drafting. This is second time this week something has been quoted as they don’t draft the best. But overall it’s an interesting take In there he talks about getting rid of Zarren. Anyone have any input? I had always read he was tremendous assistant gm, great at knowing in and outs of salary cap, and been looked at as possible gm for several teams
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 14, 2021 22:51:39 GMT -5
"Brandon Clarke went after Grant Williams" Umm no he didn't, he went the pick before. What is it with Thybulle and people acting like that some huge miss for a guy averaging 3.9 points? Too many rookies and young guy, yet hey Bane looks good on another team so let's throw that in. www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2019.htmlSorry I lose respect for sports writers that bitch about something they get wrong. I bitch they didn't take Clarke then simple trade 22 to the Sun's.
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Post by philarhody on May 15, 2021 7:23:57 GMT -5
I am very concerned about this team moving forward. Tatum and Brown are gifted scorers who have become complacent defensively. And they aren’t Jordan and Kobe. And those guys were only championship winners when the triangle forced touches throughout the team. A big part of me worries that Tatum and Brown are going to view this season as a success. They’ve gotten paid. They’re all stars. Some scrubs are going to put Tatum on their all nba team. They both average 25 a game. And if not for the hustle of Smart, Rob, Thompson, Nesmith, Pritchard etc, this would be a lottery team. Kobe became a champion when Shaq got into his true Prime at 28 and Jordan also won his first Title after turning 28. Tatum and Brown are 23 and 24, yet people expect them to be consistent super stars and polished. It doesn’t happen this way. Just look at Jimmy Butler play... he’s not more talented than either of them but he’s a man, he’s in control, he knows what to do and when to do it. He wasn’t always that way, it’s being a veteran. It’s frustrating and we know the talent is there so anything is possible, but at some point we need to step back and look at things rationally. Guys coming into the NBA at 19 take A LOT of years to hit their peak maturity in their games I hear you. I’m not necessarily disagreeing. But the three guys you brought up also have a lot of eff you to ‘em. They were always dogs, even when they were puppies.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 15, 2021 14:30:57 GMT -5
If you wanted tanking this is basically it, yet the young guys are playing hard and man Minnesota is just bad. Anyone that ever wants KAT, just needs to watch games like this.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on May 15, 2021 14:48:57 GMT -5
If you wanted tanking this is basically it, yet the young guys are playing hard and man Minnesota is just bad. Anyone that ever wants KAT, just needs to watch games like this. Honestly I am totally agnostic on the outcome of the game if the young guys are getting development time. Also Luke Kornet is better than Tristan Thompson. TT is absolutely washed and just doesn't have a place in the modern NBA. Prove me wrong. Grant Williams and Daniel Theis are also much better modern NBA centers than Tristan Thompson. Danny needs to do some serious reflecting on his 2020 off-season - the TT and Teague moves were two of the worst fringe moves in the entire NBA.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on May 16, 2021 12:21:28 GMT -5
After reading the last couple pages, I’m glad that we have mostly been galvanized in the understanding that Danny Ainge’s drafting is not the problem on this team. This is a pretty loaded team that has greatly underperformed. It is a team that has been hit by adversity and responded poorly. Can anyone confidently say that 90% plus of any perceived issues this team has is NOT due to games missed due to BOTH injuries and Covid. It's hard to find this info for whatever reason but the Celtics lost more games due to Covid AND Injury by a wide margin over nearly any other team. AND many of those game lost were to starters. People complained this team has no identity. Well of course not it never had a chance to develop with constant roster changes through out the entire season, how obvious does something have to be? You cannot tell me that this is the number one reason for this team's helter skelter up down play this year. Any explanation otherwise and I'm going to point to this being the cause and any other explanation as the effect. Philarhody this is not directed to you but to any fan who needs to find a target to blame for any of this years teams perceived failures. If this team was merely middle of the pack in games missed by players we would not even be entertaining this conversation. I've seen way to many stories whining about this or that and/or to change everything, good grief. A minor tweak or two, fairly good health and this team is back in the conversation as title contender. Keep in mind this is really the first off-season, in the past few years, the Celtics were considered to be a title threat. What I'm hearing from the masses now is the same thing I've heard the previous seasons, seasons in which they made it to the Conference Championship 3 of the previous 4 seasons. That tells you everything you need to know. The media sells controversy and preys on fans insecurities because unfortunately it's what drives ratings. Rational fear free discussion is never served at any of these meals. So if you are of the same mind set as the media, then you should know by that alone your opinion is severely flawed at best. If you want to debate the whole media angle, listen to Hate Inc, first, you won't want to discuss it afterwards.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 16, 2021 12:52:20 GMT -5
Grant Williams and Daniel Theis are also much better modern NBA centers than Tristan Thompson. Danny needs to do some serious reflecting on his 2020 off-season - the TT and Teague moves were two of the worst fringe moves in the entire NBA. Ironically the only redeeming factor about Danny's offseason was his good draft. dyoungteach on absolute suicide alert.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 16, 2021 12:55:05 GMT -5
While some of that is true, it's not the only issues. Watch last game and this game. Look at the effort, heck the team play is impressive given the talent.
The biggest issue is Kemba Walker and his massive contract. His knee isn't going to get better long-term. His missing games was a huge issue and won't stop next year.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 16, 2021 13:12:04 GMT -5
While some of that is true, it's not the only issues. Watch last game and this game. Look at the effort, heck the team play is impressive given the talent. Against a shit team with nothing to play. The issue is the lack of talent on this roster. You can't play a JAG like Semi for 17 minutes per game, some times as your first forward off the bench. I like Grant, but he's sadly not good enough to be a core part of the rotation. Same thing applies to Romeo. TT is absolutely not good enough if you want to contend. Then you're left with Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba and Timelord. Which is an absolutely incredible starting line-up, but guys are just never healthy and the top 2 are still crazy young. You could put Popovich on this roster and the team would not finish better than .500. We know that for a fact since the Spurs are 33-38 and that roster doesn't have less talent than we do when you factor in the injuries. You need good players to have good team play and sadly our top players are surrounded by absolutely nothing.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on May 16, 2021 14:08:14 GMT -5
Fun lineup today lol
I really like Waters as a future backup PG
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 16, 2021 14:08:24 GMT -5
While some of that is true, it's not the only issues. Watch last game and this game. Look at the effort, heck the team play is impressive given the talent. Against a shit team with nothing to play. The issue is the lack of talent on this roster. You can't play a JAG like Semi for 17 minutes per game, some times as your first forward off the bench. I like Grant, but he's sadly not good enough to be a core part of the rotation. Same thing applies to Romeo. TT is absolutely not good enough if you want to contend. Then you're left with Tatum, Brown, Smart, Kemba and Timelord. Which is an absolutely incredible starting line-up, but guys are just never healthy and the top 2 are still crazy young. You could put Popovich on this roster and the team would not finish better than .500. We know that for a fact since the Spurs are 33-38 and that roster doesn't have less talent than we do when you factor in the injuries. You need good players to have good team play and sadly our top players are surrounded by absolutely nothing. I don't buy that. You can't site lack of talent playing Semi over Parker. That's the coach, Parker is very talented. I didn't like TT signing due to money, opportunity cost and fit, yet he's a fine overpriced backup center. I'd rather Theis, who I like more.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 16, 2021 14:11:17 GMT -5
Fun lineup today lol I really like Waters as a future backup PG Waters needs to bulk up like Thomas. That's my only goal for him, add 10 pounds of muscle.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on May 16, 2021 14:13:13 GMT -5
Fun lineup today lol I really like Waters as a future backup PG Waters needs to bulk up like Thomas. That's my only goal for him, add 10 pounds of muscle. Completely agree. It’s always going to come down to the physical aspect of things for him because as far as I’m concerned he knows how to run an offense. 10 lbs of muscle would go a long way for him. He’s obviously wildly undersized but he’s a pretty aggressive defender- he’ll never be a good one but he might be able to limit that deficiency with a sturdier base
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Post by Don Caballero on May 16, 2021 16:19:22 GMT -5
I don't buy that. You can't site lack of talent playing Semi over Parker. That's the coach, Parker is very talented. I didn't like TT signing due to money, opportunity cost and fit, yet he's a fine overpriced backup center. I'd rather Theis, who I like more. Parker is so talented he couldn't get playing time in Sacramento and he can't get playing time over an absolutely useless player like Semi. I liked the signing for the cost, but let's not go crazy here. This roster is ass outside of the top guys and the top guys are never healthy. Absolutely no coach would turn this roster into a contender as they are.
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Post by philarhody on May 16, 2021 21:01:01 GMT -5
This game against the Knicks epitomizes what was wrong with this Celtics team all season. Celtics shot 20% from three and lost by 4 points. Why?
Because no Tatum and Brown meant hard play throughout. If Tatum and Brown had played, this game would have been well into the hundreds and the Celtics still would have lost.
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