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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 16, 2021 22:39:08 GMT -5
I don't buy that. You can't site lack of talent playing Semi over Parker. That's the coach, Parker is very talented. I didn't like TT signing due to money, opportunity cost and fit, yet he's a fine overpriced backup center. I'd rather Theis, who I like more. Parker is so talented he couldn't get playing time in Sacramento and he can't get playing time over an absolutely useless player like Semi. I liked the signing for the cost, but let's not go crazy here. This roster is ass outside of the top guys and the top guys are never healthy. Absolutely no coach would turn this roster into a contender as they are. Parker is what he is, yet that player is a lot better than Semi. The upgrades this team needs is Parker type players for the Semi type players. Steven's playing Semi over Parker says a lot more about Steven's than Parker. Just look at today's game. Parker is a very good scorer. He's not a great defender, yet if he's your 8th, 9th, 10th best guy, you have a good team. Some people are crazy fire Steven's and others are it's not him at all. The truth is more in the middle. Yeah a bunch of crap this year, yet even with that Steven's hasn't been great. No way I feel he's gotten as much as he could out of this roster. I don't want him fired, yet acting like it's all just the roster just isn't true. Contender? We have people talking about tanking for a draft pick. I don't agree, yet it's not crazy watching this team when they give up 78 points to the Heat in a half. If you think that matches the talent level, well that's an interesting take.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 16, 2021 23:09:11 GMT -5
Contender? We have people talking about tanking for a draft pick. I don't agree, yet it's not crazy watching this team when they give up 78 points to the Heat in a half. If you think that matches the talent level, well that's an interesting take. They almost won that game btw.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on May 17, 2021 3:56:15 GMT -5
This game against the Knicks epitomizes what was wrong with this Celtics team all season. Celtics shot 20% from three and lost by 4 points. Why? Because no Tatum and Brown meant hard play throughout. If Tatum and Brown had played, this game would have been well into the hundreds and the Celtics still would have lost. What are you possibly talking about? You realize Tatum and Brown carried us the entire season, right? Including Tatum playing through post-COVID body stuff and Brown through a literal torn wrist, as well as a sprained ankle and balky knee? Literally the young guys are hungry, rested, and playing for rotation spots. And the Knicks were missing shots and taking a lot of bad shots. Why do Celtics fans shit on Tatum and Brown at every possible opportunity? Do we WANT to run them out of town?
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on May 17, 2021 4:27:02 GMT -5
My feelings are: lose Wizards game by resting guys, and take your chances in the next game with a rested squad, because it has the two best possible outcomes: 1) Lottery 2) Philly R1 Winning the Wizards game has the worst possible outcome: Nets round 1 (unless Harden is out R1 I guess, but still, like Philly matchup better) For next season, my thoughts: 1) Get rid of Edwards, Parker, Semi, Tacko. Bring back Tremont, Kornet 2) Sniff around to see if anybody wants TT and get a center that's a better fit. Move Grant Williams to center permanently. Center rotation is Timelord, GWill, Kornet, 3) Resign Fournier because what else do you do at this point, though I don't love it... 4) Draft best player available and plug them into 10-15 mins a game. Personally I like : - PG Josh Giddey, Big 6'8 aussie PG with amazing passing, reminds me of LaMelo-lite, hes not LaMelo obviously but has the passing + size skillset we need on our team. Definitely raw though, handles are really loose and athleticism is iffy for NBA, maybe a bit too much of a project given our needs
- PG Sharife Cooper (undersized PG I know, lol)
- SG/Wing Zhaire Williams (skinny, long wing who can shoot it)
- I really love Keon Johnson and Scottie Barnies but almost no chance they are available unless we magically jump into the lotto
Roster moving into next year: PG Kemba, Pritchard, Tremont PG/Wing Smart (passing needed), Romeo (drives needed), Giddey/draft pick? Wing Tatum, Brown, Fournier, Nesmith Bigs Timelord, Grant Williams, Kornet Slide in draft pick wherever. Personally not opposed to packaging some of the young guys for a clear established upgrade at wing or big (e.g. Grant/Romeo/Timelord + picks, maybe also offloading TT or using Fournier's contract, but really don't know who that player is since I don't see Beal leaving anytime soon). Don't really want to trade Nesmith or Smart if possible unless its a very good or star player, and honestly keep Timelord if possible. Sorry for the short book, lets see what happens in the playoffs and for now just dreaming too early. Playoffs might shock us all, never underestimate Stevens underdog teams. Would love to see the young guys lead a crazy playoff run with Tatum and Kemba.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 17, 2021 6:36:23 GMT -5
Some food for thought for those who are constantly down on the C's and negate what they have been able to accomplish. The 76ers haven't made it to the ECF in twenty years, I just read that but didn't fact check it. Considering the C's 3 trips in 4 years despite roster turnover, I would say that makes that a little more impressive.
I also have to wonder the age of the naysayers. Some who have only been following for 20 years no nothing but success for the most part. While those of us who have been following for 50 years know a lot more about just being competitive, we can appreciate it more I think. This comment is more about Boston sports in general rather than just the C's.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2021 7:27:25 GMT -5
Contender? We have people talking about tanking for a draft pick. I don't agree, yet it's not crazy watching this team when they give up 78 points to the Heat in a half. If you think that matches the talent level, well that's an interesting take. They almost won that game btw. That's the whole point, it's not just talent. There's a bunch of they don't show up for half a game this year. D is just effort. I don't know about you, yet I blame a coach if effort is lacking. You lose like last game because the other team just has more talent, I'm 100% okay with that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2021 7:54:56 GMT -5
Some food for thought for those who are constantly down on the C's and negate what they have been able to accomplish. The 76ers haven't made it to the ECF in twenty years, I just read that but didn't fact check it. Considering the C's 3 trips in 4 years despite roster turnover, I would say that makes that a little more impressive. I also have to wonder the age of the naysayers. Some who have only been following for 20 years no nothing but success for the most part. While those of us who have been following for 50 years know a lot more about just being competitive, we can appreciate it more I think. This comment is more about Boston sports in general rather than just the C's. Die hard Boston fan for 25-30 years. Long enough to know what losing is, yet yeah I've enjoyed the golden age of Boston sports. Yet I also never enjoyed the Bird years. I've seen the Celtics be bad more than good. Spoiled Celtics fans would be crazy young or much older in my opinion. Like people who started following the team around 2008. Never watched almost every game of the ML Carr year, never got to watch Ricky boy the GM work his magic like the Joe Johnson for Delk and Rodgers trade. This team feels like the early year teams right now where you were happy they just barely made the playoffs with a losing record. I don't like that feeling, not with this talent level. Those days should be gone.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 17, 2021 8:14:14 GMT -5
Losing games because of injuries/need to play with shifting line ups is expected - no issue with that.
Losing games because of lack of defensive effort, or chucking up shots that are low percentage - playing dumb, or playing lazy - that is unacceptable.
I put quite a bit of this season's disappointment on Stevens' seeming inability to motivate this particular set of athletes. Maybe their 500 record is excusable in terms of personnel - but it is not excusable in terms of so many sleep walk quarters, so many outrageous shooting percentages against them - and such horrendous shooting percentages by them in some games.\
Just my two cents - and I really like Stevens - he just may not be the right coach for THIS team at THIS time.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 17, 2021 9:07:13 GMT -5
Random question since we're talking Celtics history. Are we actually in a PP-'Toine era right now? Two stars, too immature to bring a team to a championship by themselves, feeling like they are overachieving and underachieving at the same time. Team around them wasn't that good or deep. Is Kemba an overqualified Kenny Anderson?
Obviously JB is better than Toine ever was. Jim O'Brien seemed like a good coach but never seemed to get the most out of PP/'Toine. Then they traded Walker and Pierce didn't really get "it" until they added a maniacal competitor and an all-business companion stars desperate for a ring while all were in their 30s.
PP/AW reached ECF at ages 25/26 but were never real contenders. We have time before we need to make decisions, and I hope the team can grow (Nesmith and Timelord will have a huge impact on team ceiling).
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Post by Don Caballero on May 17, 2021 11:41:31 GMT -5
That's the whole point, it's not just talent. There's a bunch of they don't show up for half a game this year. D is just effort. I don't know about you, yet I blame a coach if effort is lacking. You lose like last game because the other team just has more talent, I'm 100% okay with that. Then they had no effort for a half, but had like crazy effort for the second half? Why are you ignoring the other team? The Heat scored 79 or something points because they were crazy hot. It's harder to play defense consistently when your team has to shuffle the line-up all the time. I don't think Stevens is beyond criticism at all, but some of the stuff leveled at him is nonsensical. Why doesn't he play JABARI PARKER more than SEMI? Like geez man I don't know, maybe both of them are shit players.
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Post by philarhody on May 17, 2021 13:13:06 GMT -5
This game against the Knicks epitomizes what was wrong with this Celtics team all season. Celtics shot 20% from three and lost by 4 points. Why? Because no Tatum and Brown meant hard play throughout. If Tatum and Brown had played, this game would have been well into the hundreds and the Celtics still would have lost. What are you possibly talking about? You realize Tatum and Brown carried us the entire season, right? Including Tatum playing through post-COVID body stuff and Brown through a literal torn wrist, as well as a sprained ankle and balky knee? Literally the young guys are hungry, rested, and playing for rotation spots. And the Knicks were missing shots and taking a lot of bad shots. Why do Celtics fans shit on Tatum and Brown at every possible opportunity? Do we WANT to run them out of town? Yes I do realize they carried us all season. Right into the play in tournament while barely breaking a sweat
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2021 16:29:28 GMT -5
That's the whole point, it's not just talent. There's a bunch of they don't show up for half a game this year. D is just effort. I don't know about you, yet I blame a coach if effort is lacking. You lose like last game because the other team just has more talent, I'm 100% okay with that. Then they had no effort for a half, but had like crazy effort for the second half? Why are you ignoring the other team? The Heat scored 79 or something points because they were crazy hot. It's harder to play defense consistently when your team has to shuffle the line-up all the time. I don't think Stevens is beyond criticism at all, but some of the stuff leveled at him is nonsensical. Why doesn't he play JABARI PARKER more than SEMI? Like geez man I don't know, maybe both of them are shit players. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-celtics-refused-to-play-defense-in-their-biggest-game-of-the-season/ar-BB1gxMdzThird time allowing 70 or more points in a half in the last five games. 79 points is the most allowed in a half since 1963! This isn’t just a team was hot, come on now. Even Steven's is saying that's on me! Parker has a career average of 14.5 points a game, has Semi ever came close to 10 points a game in a single season lol? With his 3.5 points per game career average. If a guy like Parker equals Semi for you, how are you fixing this team? I'd say those Semi for guys like Parker are the exact moves this team needs. Look at last game, that's what Parker does he scores. He's a scoring PF, what is Semi? He's a horrible scorer, doesn't rebound much and isn't close to good enough of a defender to make up for it. Semi is a 14th/15th type guy, Parker is a rotation player. Chalk this up to something I never thought would happen, acting like Semi is in anyway equal to Parker.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 17, 2021 16:34:13 GMT -5
Random question since we're talking Celtics history. Are we actually in a PP-'Toine era right now? Two stars, too immature to bring a team to a championship by themselves, feeling like they are overachieving and underachieving at the same time. Team around them wasn't that good or deep. Is Kemba an overqualified Kenny Anderson? Obviously JB is better than Toine ever was. Jim O'Brien seemed like a good coach but never seemed to get the most out of PP/'Toine. Then they traded Walker and Pierce didn't really get "it" until they added a maniacal competitor and an all-business companion stars desperate for a ring while all were in their 30s. PP/AW reached ECF at ages 25/26 but were never real contenders. We have time before we need to make decisions, and I hope the team can grow (Nesmith and Timelord will have a huge impact on team ceiling). I don't come close to seeing that.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 17, 2021 16:55:38 GMT -5
Then they had no effort for a half, but had like crazy effort for the second half? Why are you ignoring the other team? The Heat scored 79 or something points because they were crazy hot. It's harder to play defense consistently when your team has to shuffle the line-up all the time. I don't think Stevens is beyond criticism at all, but some of the stuff leveled at him is nonsensical. Why doesn't he play JABARI PARKER more than SEMI? Like geez man I don't know, maybe both of them are shit players. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-celtics-refused-to-play-defense-in-their-biggest-game-of-the-season/ar-BB1gxMdzThird time allowing 70 or more points in a half in the last five games. 79 points is the most allowed in a half since 1963! This isn’t just a team was hot, come on now. Even Steven's is saying that's on me! Parker has a career average of 14.5 points a game, has Semi ever came close to 10 points a game in a single season lol? With his 3.5 points per game career average. If a guy like Parker equals Semi for you, how are you fixing this team? I'd say those Semi for guys like Parker are the exact moves this team needs. Look at last game, that's what Parker does he scores. He's a scoring PF, what is Semi? He's a horrible scorer, doesn't rebound much and isn't close to good enough of a defender to make up for it. Semi is a 14th/15th type guy, Parker is a rotation player. Chalk this up to something I never thought would happen, acting like Semi is in anyway equal to Parker. Is Parker an actual rotation player? There’s a reason a guy who can score like him didn’t have a team.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 17, 2021 18:48:26 GMT -5
Is Parker an actual rotation player? There’s a reason a guy who can score like him didn’t have a team. Keep in mind umass is defending using Parker on the same post he's complaining about the Celtics defensive woes lol.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2021 0:27:27 GMT -5
www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-celtics-refused-to-play-defense-in-their-biggest-game-of-the-season/ar-BB1gxMdzThird time allowing 70 or more points in a half in the last five games. 79 points is the most allowed in a half since 1963! This isn’t just a team was hot, come on now. Even Steven's is saying that's on me! Parker has a career average of 14.5 points a game, has Semi ever came close to 10 points a game in a single season lol? With his 3.5 points per game career average. If a guy like Parker equals Semi for you, how are you fixing this team? I'd say those Semi for guys like Parker are the exact moves this team needs. Look at last game, that's what Parker does he scores. He's a scoring PF, what is Semi? He's a horrible scorer, doesn't rebound much and isn't close to good enough of a defender to make up for it. Semi is a 14th/15th type guy, Parker is a rotation player. Chalk this up to something I never thought would happen, acting like Semi is in anyway equal to Parker. Is Parker an actual rotation player? There’s a reason a guy who can score like him didn’t have a team. On the right team? Yeah 100%, have you seen anything that shows he's not? He's perfect if Tatum is your starting PF. He fits this team perfectly, his mid range game and not just heaving up tons of three's like most of the team. Didn't have a team for a few weeks? He was finally smart and waited for the right fit over money.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2021 0:38:25 GMT -5
Is Parker an actual rotation player? There’s a reason a guy who can score like him didn’t have a team. Keep in mind umass is defending using Parker on the same post he's complaining about the Celtics defensive woes lol. He has a better defensive rating than Semi, he's actually a good rebounder at PF, unlike Semi. I'd say lol if you think playing Semi helps our D, unless it's against Giannis.
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Post by philarhody on May 18, 2021 4:27:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the Walker/Pierce comparisons are unfair to both parties.
Tatum and Brown are way more skilled as a duo.
But Pierce was a dog. We need dogs. Tatum and Brown are not dogs. They have always been top 3 or 4 players in the world since they were freshmen in high school. And they play like their lives and reputations don’t depend on the outcome of the game. Because for them, they don’t.
You see a similar thing with Kyrie. Imagine Tom Brady saying to reporters, right before the playoffs “my focus is not on football, it’s on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” No one is arguing with Kyrie that a 70 year war is more pressing or important than sports. But then again, no ones arguing that Kyrie has an insatiable desire to win, either.
I like Aaron Nesmith. Every time he is on the floor making a play he is screaming and staring down his teammates. Tatum makes a play and he waits for Tristan Thompson to come do it for him. It’s so weird.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2021 5:03:36 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the Walker/Pierce comparisons are unfair to both parties. Tatum and Brown are way more skilled as a duo. But Pierce was a dog. We need dogs. Tatum and Brown are not dogs. They have always been top 3 or 4 players in the world since they were freshmen in high school. And they play like their lives and reputations don’t depend on the outcome of the game. Because for them, they don’t. You see a similar thing with Kyrie. Imagine Tom Brady saying to reporters, right before the playoffs “my focus is not on football, it’s on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.” No one is arguing with Kyrie that a 70 year war is more pressing or important than sports. But then again, no ones arguing that Kyrie has an insatiable desire to win, either. I like Aaron Nesmith. Every time he is on the floor making a play he is screaming and staring down his teammates. Tatum makes a play and he waits for Tristan Thompson to come do it for him. It’s so weird. I don’t know, I’ve been thinking about this, you may be right but I’m not there yet... 2 things: 1. The game is different, how many stars are like the guys of the past with that mentality? Money and fame does change that so it’s not like it’s them up against a bunch of guys with that attitude. 2. We never questioned Brown or Tatum’s defense or intensity on that end before this year; a year in which they both moved to being the clear cut top guys offensively which takes an adjustment to learning balance. Plus, it’s the year of COVId and the schedule from hell so I’m not drawing any conclusions. It’s something that needs to change though.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on May 18, 2021 5:29:15 GMT -5
I have no doubt you can build around Tatum and Jaylen, and this year doesn’t make me think otherwise. If they don’t show progress as leaders next year, then maybe it’s worth having a conversation. But the Antoine/Pierce comparison is premature given that this is the first year they’ve truly been asked to be leaders (and Tatum clearly wasn’t himself for a portion of it). That lightbulb didn’t go on right away for Pierce - and in fact, there was an offseason when everyone wanted him gone - but eventually he figured it out. I expect we’ll see different versions of Tatum and Jaylen next year after a longer offseason to rest and recover.
There are two big things I’d like to see heading into next season: 1. Surround the core with some guys who bring more toughness and effort. As cliche as that is, it’s no coincidence this team finds itself trailing by 10-20 almost every night. Right now, the closest thing they have to tough players is Nesmith, Thompson, and Marcus - and I think Marcus’ time here has run its course. 2. Stevens needs to implement meaningful changes in their system and style of play (no, I don’t think he should be fired). I don’t put 100% of the effort issues on the coaching staff, but the exact same problems continue to persist year after year. For instance, they’re still be the bottom of the league in free throws, and that indicates their offensive system needs tweaking. It’s on the coaching staff to identify and fix those types of issues, and they haven’t been very good at that.
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Post by texs31 on May 18, 2021 6:26:51 GMT -5
Remember though, Pierce was a dog before he was a DOG. Much of this town wanted him out. His antics were growing tiresome (the whole wheelchair/tape all over his head incident). He then got reinvigorated and became the Pierce that we all remember.
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Post by jmei on May 18, 2021 6:32:42 GMT -5
I don't buy that. You can't site lack of talent playing Semi over Parker. That's the coach, Parker is very talented. I didn't like TT signing due to money, opportunity cost and fit, yet he's a fine overpriced backup center. I'd rather Theis, who I like more. Parker is so talented he couldn't get playing time in Sacramento and he can't get playing time over an absolutely useless player like Semi. I liked the signing for the cost, but let's not go crazy here. This roster is ass outside of the top guys and the top guys are never healthy. Absolutely no coach would turn this roster into a contender as they are. Parker is decent offensively but is one of the worst defensive players in the league.
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Post by voiceofreason on May 18, 2021 6:36:55 GMT -5
Kemba was supposed to be that veteran leader but that has been negated by his health, but yes that is what is needed. Danny needs to get a veteran leader, could you imagine Jimmy Butler on this team. A guy like that, oh wait a minute, isn't that what Smart is? Smart isn't as good as Butler but he is one of the biggest dogs in the league so NO Perk is wrong and he hasn't run his course. He is taking 10.6 shots a game, maybe he needs to take fewer but he isn't killing them most nights. Danny failed with the vets he brought in this year, maybe he needs to swing harder and bring in someone very good, not bargain basement level players.
Once again as has been pointed out, the J's are still progressing and have a ways to go before they are leading deep playoff runs. But they will get there and the C's have a lot of the ingredients at this point they just need a little more time to marinate along with another piece or 2.
Question marks are the health of Timelord and Kemba.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 18, 2021 13:08:38 GMT -5
How do you judge a player defensively? When you play on good teams that value D or when he plays on crappy teams that don’t? Go look at Parkers numbers during that epic seven game series against us in the 2018 playoffs. Second best defensive rating on the team during those seven games. That means a lot more to me than his play on the Bulls and Hawks. It shows you what he can do when he plays hard and it's not one of the worst defenders in Basketball when he's a reserve player. Well that's the player I see right now watching him. He chased money on bad teams and he wasn't a fit. Yet he picked the perfect team fit wise and a coach that values D. He's playing for his career and it shows. He's playing so he can have the Celtics pick up a veteran minimum deal for next year. Exactly the type of player you want and perfect given our up coming cap issues.
I certainly get questioning effort levels. Yet some of this is crazy, given the players history. Blame the coach who all season has talked about keeping guys healthy versus winning games. Blame the coach that has Tatum playing more SF than PF this year. When I watch that Heat game, I blame the coach, not the players. I'll give Brad credit for saying that exact same thing. Don't let this season overshadow epic playoff runs. Yeah it's an issue, yet it doesn't mean more than last year's playoffs.
I say Tatum and Brown have shown more fight in there young Careers than Paul Pierce did at the same age. I feel people need to go pop in some 2018 and 2020 playoff tape. They played like Pierce did 2008 and on during those years.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 18, 2021 15:03:23 GMT -5
2 things:
1. This start time is some bullshit
2. Rob Williams is a game time decision. That takes the air out of the last 3 weeks he’s just getting to 100% but he would play otherwise argument.
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