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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by dangermike on Mar 10, 2021 16:49:26 GMT -5
Brady went to a team that was 7-9 the previous season and won a Super Bowl. Granted, Tampa's biggest need was QB but lots of guys go to "super teams" that don't work out. As for the Pats, they went from Super Bowl contention to 7-9 without Brady. There are extenuating circumstances that are obviously not entirely Bill's fault, but there are plenty of things that are. The lack of cap space, QB, WR, and TE are all because of decisions Bill has made. Use any example you want as an excuse (Sanu, Brown, etc.) but absolving Bill form the situation he's created for himself makes no sense either. Seriously, shame on Bill for putting together a string of championships for New England. How dare he! I feel like this board is crazy town - Bill has had whiffs as a GM??? Where was this talk when he continuously has the best line, good linebacking core even tho they are all reclamation projects (that the GM would have to find), an overachieving secondary (Reviving McCourty and all the safeties that are only good in New England). We had 1 (ONE!!!!!!) season where we missed the playoffs- a season where we lost the literal greatest qb ever - and the sky is falling. I hope you all say sorry when Bill fields an OVERachieving team this season while you shit on the process. again. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 17:18:17 GMT -5
That seems like a crazy take from fans that don't really understand football. Brady left and hand picked a team loaded with talent and left the Patriots with tons of dead cap space and waisted picks on players like Sanu trying to make him happy. It's like Bill leaving the Patriots to go coach say the Bills and Brady goes to the Jags, then trying to use that to prove who's better. It just makes no sense. Brady went to a team that was 7-9 the previous season and won a Super Bowl. Granted, Tampa's biggest need was QB but lots of guys go to "super teams" that don't work out. As for the Pats, they went from Super Bowl contention to 7-9 without Brady. There are extenuating circumstances that are obviously not entirely Bill's fault, but there are plenty of things that are. The lack of cap space, QB, WR, and TE are all because of decisions Bill has made. Use any example you want as an excuse (Sanu, Brown, etc.) but absolving Bill form the situation he's created for himself makes no sense either. I certainly give Brady credit, yet more than anything he picked the right team. So you think it's Bill fault we had over 31 million in dead money? Most of that was Brady's and Brown's. I'd say that's what could GMs do with an older QB, if Brown wasn't a moron it likely would have changed everything. Heck Brady might still be here. Oh yeah then Covid hit and the Patriots lose way more talent than anyone else does, again that's Bills fault? That's over 25% of the teams cap space just gone, so he didn't have any money left to sign anyone besides a guy like Newton. I think this whole comparison thing is 100% crazy to begin with. Yet if you want to play that game at least give Bill time to rebuild the team and find a QB. If he can't do that and just keeps sucking you maybe have a point. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 10, 2021 17:25:00 GMT -5
It was always a silly discussion partly bc Brady had a distinct advantage in the short term (hand select a team that he could just step into whereas BB has to find even a decent starting QB - which is no small effort) but BB had the advantage in the long-term (very likely BB can remain at the top of his game longer than Brady just bc . . . Age vs Football).
Both could probably win A Super Bowl without each other (Brady, obviously, already has). Neither could have been a part of 2 separate dynasties without each other.
Why are we so broken that we can't be happy with that outcome?
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 10, 2021 19:04:03 GMT -5
The fact that team won 7 games last year and it would have been 8 had Newton not fumbled in Buffalo, is a minor miracle. That roster was terrible.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 19:22:09 GMT -5
Add in Edelman only had a few healthy games, then was a shell of himself till surgery that ended his year. Not much went right last year.
RJP- If I pay for a month of PFF do I get the draft guide to download and keep? Or does it go away after the month runs out? You don't need elite to get it do you?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,866 
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Post by cdj on Mar 10, 2021 22:08:10 GMT -5
I certainly give Brady credit, yet more than anything he picked the right team. So you think it's Bill fault we had over 31 million in dead money? Most of that was Brady's and Brown's. I'd say that's what could GMs do with an older QB, if Brown wasn't a moron it likely would have changed everything. Heck Brady might still be here. Oh yeah then Covid hit and the Patriots lose way more talent than anyone else does, again that's Bills fault? That's over 25% of the teams cap space just gone, so he didn't have any money left to sign anyone besides a guy like Newton. I think this whole comparison thing is 100% crazy to begin with. Yet if you want to play that game at least give Bill time to rebuild the team and find a QB. If he can't do that and just keeps sucking you maybe have a point. Bill writes the contracts, so if he's not to blame for the $31M in dead money who the heck is? Seriously, point a finger at someone else. Anyone else. You really can't because there's only one option. Not trying to say Bill sucks or that the Pats haven't won 6 Super Bowls, but all roads lead to Bill so not sure why people try to absolve him of blame for the current state of the organization when he is literally the one and only person who created the current state of the organization. Covid is obviously not Bill's fault (thought that was sufficiently implied with the extenuating circumstances statement) but the toughest coach in the NFL had the most opt outs. No cause and effect there? Maybe it is coincidence, but you don't exactly have to be a conspiracy theorist to try and read between the lines a little. I would maybe agree that the comparisons are a little silly if it weren't for the fact that Bill and Brady seem to want them. I think both want to prove that they can do it without the other and in particular I think Bill has been angling Brady out of town since the Garappolo trade. So for Bill I'd file this under "careful what you wish for". One last thing - with Paticia and McDaniels in as coordinators (officially or otherwise) I'm not sure Bill is going to be given a chance to rebuild. I think the succession plan is in place and if the team has another directionless year Bill is probably out. I mean he had all that dead money last year so he could maximize Brady’s window when he was here, if he didn’t do that you would be bitching about that. Honestly didn’t bother reading beyond that point, probably a bunch of stuff not worth breaking down- if I had to guess a bunch more blaming of BB in bad faith |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 10, 2021 23:11:06 GMT -5
I certainly give Brady credit, yet more than anything he picked the right team. So you think it's Bill fault we had over 31 million in dead money? Most of that was Brady's and Brown's. I'd say that's what could GMs do with an older QB, if Brown wasn't a moron it likely would have changed everything. Heck Brady might still be here. Oh yeah then Covid hit and the Patriots lose way more talent than anyone else does, again that's Bills fault? That's over 25% of the teams cap space just gone, so he didn't have any money left to sign anyone besides a guy like Newton. I think this whole comparison thing is 100% crazy to begin with. Yet if you want to play that game at least give Bill time to rebuild the team and find a QB. If he can't do that and just keeps sucking you maybe have a point. Bill writes the contracts, so if he's not to blame for the $31M in dead money who the heck is? Seriously, point a finger at someone else. Anyone else. You really can't because there's only one option. Not trying to say Bill sucks or that the Pats haven't won 6 Super Bowls, but all roads lead to Bill so not sure why people try to absolve him of blame for the current state of the organization when he is literally the one and only person who created the current state of the organization. Covid is obviously not Bill's fault (thought that was sufficiently implied with the extenuating circumstances statement) but the toughest coach in the NFL had the most opt outs. No cause and effect there? Maybe it is coincidence, but you don't exactly have to be a conspiracy theorist to try and read between the lines a little. I would maybe agree that the comparisons are a little silly if it weren't for the fact that Bill and Brady seem to want them. I think both want to prove that they can do it without the other and in particular I think Bill has been angling Brady out of town since the Garappolo trade. So for Bill I'd file this under "careful what you wish for". One last thing - with Paticia and McDaniels in as coordinators (officially or otherwise) I'm not sure Bill is going to be given a chance to rebuild. I think the succession plan is in place and if the team has another directionless year Bill is probably out. So you're saying you wouldn't have restructured Brady's deal to sign more guys or signed Brown? That's the majority of the money. Why does it have to be anyone fault? It's what teams trying to win do. Overall Bill has been great at not having much dead money for two decades. Are you really arguing we shouldn't have tried to win during Brady's last year so we wouldn't have dead money last year? So guys sign with Patriots, yet opted out over Bill not Covid, got it. You think or they seem to want it? I don't think either guy has made any public remarks about it, so where's this is what they want coming from? I'd say the Media wants it, everything else is just speculation. Could you show anymore hate? Bill will be given years if he wants them, this isn't a prove it or your out year for Bill. That's crazy talk! |
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Post by beasleyrockah on Mar 10, 2021 23:13:18 GMT -5
Patricia is definitely not going to be the de facto coordinator, that's so far off base from every report I've read. Bill is clearly grooming his kid for that role, and Patricia isn't going to cut into Mayo's role either. Patricia isn't going to be a positional coach or be in that type of situation, Reiss suggested his role would be like Mike Lombardi's old role. Caserio reportedly bounced between personnel and coaching duties at various times, and Patricia will probably take on a portion of those duties.
Also, it's laughable to suggest the players opted out because Bill was a "tough coach". Multiple opt outs were guys who were free agents and willingly signed on to play for Bill just months earlier. All of the internal vets who opted out were possible cap casualties if they didn't opt out. I feel very comfortable saying none of those guys decided to opt out for the primary factor of Bill being a tough guy to play for, or that they would've played last year for say Josh McDaniels. I think it's fair to say Gronk retired because he didn't want to play for Bill, but this other suggestion is baseless.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Mar 11, 2021 6:56:07 GMT -5
Let's also note that the Pats had only a single year of salary cap jail and were still a few competent QB performances away from playoff contention.
That said, there is a LOT to do now that the cap is clear. The Jags went for it with Bortles, blew it and bottomed out for multiple years. Now they have a clean cap AND a path to a top QB. Lots of teams have been in the Jags position but never gotten out. And the Pats don't have a QB. I really hope they aren't passive again this year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 7:02:07 GMT -5
Add in Edelman only had a few healthy games, then was a shell of himself till surgery that ended his year. Not much went right last year. RJP- If I pay for a month of PFF do I get the draft guide to download and keep? Or does it go away after the month runs out? You don't need elite to get it do you? I don’t remember - i canceled mine a while back. But I am pretty sure you can download it and it’s yours. I remember it being on a PDF on my phone not going into a website every time. That being said, I do not have it anymore. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 7:19:48 GMT -5
I mean he had all that dead money last year so he could maximize Brady’s window when he was here, if he didn’t do that you would be bitching about that. Honestly didn’t bother reading beyond that point, probably a bunch of stuff not worth breaking down- if I had to guess a bunch more blaming of BB in bad faith Honestly, the thing I initially said was that Bill is GM and coach so how is the state of the team anyone's fault but his? It's just a comment on how abstract you all are about the situation. Guess it's my fault for following everyone down the rabbit hole, so apologies I guess. Bills legacy is or the Greatest coach of all-time not the greatest GM. My comment was about his coaching. Unless, you’re an idiot or contrarian or just someone who likes to argue, it’s clear that Bill deserves to be talked about as the greatest football coach of all time. His defenses in NY were legendary for their innovation. His time in New England was spent making 2 different dynasty’s with a 3rd all time run in between. Over the 20 years with Brady, Bill constantly molded and changed how the team played the game, was ahead of trends the entire time and caused the league to make major rule changes along the way. Brady wasn’t Brady during the first dynasty. And who do we think taught Brady the football he knows today? Part of what makes Brady so special is his intelligence, thirst for knowledge and the fact he was lucky enough to be paired up with the smartest football mind to teach him the game inside and out. Brady spent countless hours with Bill learning football and breaking down defenses. I want to make sure I don’t come across as taking something away from Brady by talking about Bill teaching him because I am not. It’s equally a compliment for Tom as it is Bill. Besides needing to have the intelligence for it, having the drive to spend those hours upon hours with your coach is incredibly rare and special. Greatness needs other greatness to thrive in sports. Jordan had Pippen... Phil Jackson had Jordan and Pippen then Shaq and Kobe, LeBron needs his super teams... the lists go on and on. |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Mar 11, 2021 8:59:12 GMT -5
The salary cap chicanery that's occurring this year is getting to be a little much. Drew Brees is going to sign a new contract and then immediately retire so they can spread his old contract out. Players are signing deals with 3 voidable years. It's becoming worse than the NBA; it's edging toward the old NHL CBA when they'd give a guy a 15 year contract but the last 5 years were $1M each when he was 45 yrs old or something. I guess we are stuck with it for a bit since the NFL just closed their CBA, but I find it frustrating to follow.
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 516
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Post by badfishnbc on Mar 11, 2021 10:06:37 GMT -5
I think it's important to note how abnormal last season was.
A. you lose the GOAT, which as was noted in a previous post, the last time that happened was a season missing the playoffs.
B. you lose your opt-outs, which hit the Pats more than any other team.
C. you lose critical evaluation opportunities via the draft, in-person free agent visits and OTA's, and joint practices during training camp.
D. early-season COVID pause, which stunted the QB's momentum and on-boarding, which was already delayed because the Patriots couldn't get him in-house to evaluate his health and delayed his signing.
The smartest thing Bill did was maintain a culture of quality throughout and promote week-to-week effort and accountability while keeping an eye on the long-term plan.
This year he gets his true reset - we're looking at a more normal offseason cycle, we're getting key players back, and we didn't burn our last $9 million on a WR who was not fit to play for the organization. If you're going to judge him post-Brady, the next 24 months are the basis on which it should be done.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 10:19:11 GMT -5
Chiefs have released both their starting tackles and are still $4m over the cap. They have 53m tied up in 3 players on offense and about $67m in 3 players on defense.
I love the distraction of this team and I love that they didn’t win that second title before it happened.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 11, 2021 10:57:37 GMT -5
Bills legacy is or the Greatest coach of all-time not the greatest GM. My comment was about his coaching. Unless, you’re an idiot or contrarian or just someone who likes to argue, it’s clear that Bill deserves to be talked about as the greatest football coach of all time. His defenses in NY were legendary for their innovation. His time in New England was spent making 2 different dynasty’s with a 3rd all time run in between. Over the 20 years with Brady, Bill constantly molded and changed how the team played the game, was ahead of trends the entire time and caused the league to make major rule changes along the way. Brady wasn’t Brady during the first dynasty. And who do we think taught Brady the football he knows today? Part of what makes Brady so special is his intelligence, thirst for knowledge and the fact he was lucky enough to be paired up with the smartest football mind to teach him the game inside and out. Brady spent countless hours with Bill learning football and breaking down defenses. I want to make sure I don’t come across as taking something away from Brady by talking about Bill teaching him because I am not. It’s equally a compliment for Tom as it is Bill. Besides needing to have the intelligence for it, having the drive to spend those hours upon hours with your coach is incredibly rare and special. Greatness needs other greatness to thrive in sports. Jordan had Pippen... Phil Jackson had Jordan and Pippen then Shaq and Kobe, LeBron needs his super teams... the lists go on and on. Just to get it out of the way - Bill is probably the greatest coach of all time. Not dumping on his overall body of work (especially as a coach as you're pointing out) but the team is currently in a miserable state, particularly on offense. I think it's fair to wonder if the guy that got you to this point is the guy that's going to pull you out of it, but I'm obviously out here on this limb by myself so I'll leave it alone. I think it’s a fair question to wonder if he will turn it around, but I don’t know why we’d want to bet on some unknown doing it over him when we get his coaching on top of it. I think it came off as you questioning Bills legacy so you are obviously going to get push back over that in these parts especially. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 11, 2021 12:41:40 GMT -5
How many GMs have drafted two QBs that have taken teams to the Superbowl? Now how many that have drafted those guys not in the first round?
Let's not forget Bill didn't want to trade Jimmy, Brady went to our owner and forced him to make Bill trade him. If you want to judge Bill, that needs to be part of the equation.
Now we're asking Bill to find another QB that can take a team to the Superbowl. Yet we expect it to happen overnight, without the team doing what most teams would do, which is tank to get a QB. It's only the hardest thing to do in football.
Many GM/coaches can create a Championship team around a great QB, it's maintaining a Championship roster year after year that is hard. Go look at the Chiefs. Mahomes is the most talented QB I've seen in my lifetime. Can they surround him with enough talent for 20 years? That's the hard part, as it requires rebuilding the team almost every year because as you see with the Chiefs you can't just sign everyone and just keep going in the salary cap era.
Free agency is crazy, all the top guys get overpaid which causes cap issues within years. There's a reason no Champion has repeated in almost 20 years since Bill did it.
Go look at Aaron Rodgers, the guys been to one Superbowl. How many Superbowl wins does he have if Bill was his GM/Coach for his career? Put another way, do the Bucs win last year with Rodgers at QB?
Brady is the GOAT, yet he's reached that status because of Bill. It's a pairing that created the greatest 20 year run football will ever see. If you had to pick who was more important, that's an easy answer. Unless people really think Brady is that much better than a guy like Rodgers.
Now let's please get back to Bill building our next great team!
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Mar 11, 2021 13:04:04 GMT -5
I think it's important to note how abnormal last season was. A. you lose the GOAT, which as was noted in a previous post, the last time that happened was a season missing the playoffs. B. you lose your opt-outs, which hit the Pats more than any other team. C. you lose critical evaluation opportunities via the draft, in-person free agent visits and OTA's, and joint practices during training camp. D. early-season COVID pause, which stunted the QB's momentum and on-boarding, which was already delayed because the Patriots couldn't get him in-house to evaluate his health and delayed his signing. The smartest thing Bill did was maintain a culture of quality throughout and promote week-to-week effort and accountability while keeping an eye on the long-term plan. This year he gets his true reset - we're looking at a more normal offseason cycle, we're getting key players back, and we didn't burn our last $9 million on a WR who was not fit to play for the organization. If you're going to judge him post-Brady, the next 24 months are the basis on which it should be done. Two other thoughts: His draft was at least "pretty good" and has a clear path for 2 starters, which is huge given the recent draft hiccups. If Uche and one of the 3rd rounders jump, that will help this team a lot. There's a new personnel guy in Dave Ziegler. Maybe a new set of eyes will help give Bill a new perspective and jump start success of outside additions. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 8:14:16 GMT -5
Pats re-signing Cam per Jim McBride. 1 year deal.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Mar 12, 2021 8:27:47 GMT -5
Pats re-signing Cam per Jim McBride. 1 year deal. I won't send it until we see who is under center on Week 1, but let me tell you I'm writing up my scathing review of Bill the GM right now. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 12, 2021 8:44:20 GMT -5
It makes sense he got a raise after last season.
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Post by rjw on Mar 12, 2021 8:49:40 GMT -5
I'm looking over the edge of the precipice and deciding if I should jump or not.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Mar 12, 2021 8:57:30 GMT -5
Contract proposal: $1m per passing TD
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 9:02:03 GMT -5
Contract can be worth close to 14M but, remember, its really only the guaranteed money that matters.
I'm okay with this but, mostly, it's because I've always been resigned to the fact that the rebuild was going to take more than just 1 year. The REAL next QB was not likely to be in the building until, at least, after the draft.
When you consider he'll have a full year in the offseason program and, HOPEFULLY, better weapons he's probably the best VALUE option of all the "bridges" out there. Though, again, that will depend on what the actual cap hit is.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 9:03:09 GMT -5
Meanwhile, NE is also resigning Justin Bethel. Championships are won on Special Teams (I kid, I kid).
3 yr, 6M total (unsure of guarantees)
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 9:21:52 GMT -5
Being reported that it's HEAVILY incentivised and structured is such a way that "still keeps them in the market for a QB". (paraphrase from Giardi)
"much less than 14" w/o incentives per Jeff Howe.
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