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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 16:26:32 GMT -5
Mike Garafolo reporting the contract is as such: $2M Signing Bonus $1.5M Base $1.5M in Per Game Bonuses (LTBE) $9M in incentives for Playoffs, Pro Bowl, All Pro, MVP, Super Bowl MPV, etc. So it would seem that the cap hit for Cam will be $5M (unless I've learned nothing from following PatsCap ... which is possible if not likely). EDIT - Miguel confirming it's 4.9. EDIT 2 - That's currently the 31st highest Cap Hit among QBs. I would expect, at least, 4 rookies (if not 5) will eclipse that and, in all likelihood, a couple of FAs. That's really not bad at all in terms of cap space, but still comes with the huge downside of having to watch Cam Newton play football. Except the structure of the deal suggests that it's more likely that a) you will like watching Cam play football or b) you WON'T be watching Cam play football. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 12, 2021 16:44:53 GMT -5
That's really not bad at all in terms of cap space, but still comes with the huge downside of having to watch Cam Newton play football. Except the structure of the deal suggests that it's more likely that a) you will like watching Cam play football or b) you WON'T be watching Cam play football. The structure looks much better than earlier reports, that being said you still need another option to move on to. You would have said the same thing last year and they never did. Maybe they know something we don't, like his arm wasn't 100% back last year, let's hope. Yet we still need another guy to trade for Jimmy, sign Mariota or draft a guy to have the option of not watching him. That's not a given with Bill, watch him draft three CBs, a DT, safety, kicker and two OTs lol.😂 |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 12, 2021 17:09:08 GMT -5
I think this year, if Cam falters, they'd go with whomever is the backup rather than watch him continue to struggle. Whether that's another FA/Trade, a draft pick or even Stidham (tbc, I expect more than just Stidham as the other member of the QB room).
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 12, 2021 17:17:00 GMT -5
Not a big fan of the move for Cam but I get it. Maybe he surprises us and stops throwing it at guys feet, we shall see. The Pats will make the playoffs though and will win 11. BB has been challenged and he loves that. And he loves having 65+ million to spend in an offseason that will be ripe with talent and very little money, making his dollars go even further. Players like Cam, on and off the Pats, so this move will help land some guys. If you thought this years team ran the ball well wait until next year. The addition of Brown, who was a Pro Bowler after leaving in 2018, will make this teams Oline dominant. That along with a true FB they missed in 2020 will make the run game elite which will help the passing game a lot. You heard it hear first, 11 wins and the playoffs in 2021. Brown isn’t a better lineman than Thuney and they are losing Thuney. Brown is the largest man in the league and he was a probowler in 2019. He might have more of a impact on the line than Thuney. You are entitled to your opinion obviously but don't act as though yours is the only one that matters. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 12, 2021 18:03:44 GMT -5
Brown isn’t a better lineman than Thuney and they are losing Thuney. Brown is the largest man in the league and he was a probowler in 2019. He might have more of a impact on the line than Thuney. You are entitled to your opinion obviously but don't act as though yours is the only one that matters. Sorry, I didn’t realize sharing an option was acting like it was the only one that matters.  |
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Post by congusgambler33 on Mar 12, 2021 19:36:56 GMT -5
I think it is just Gm Bill being Gm Bill. His coaching is fine, but as the GM there is a lot of speculation. i just can't wait to see Cam throwing a perfect duck into the ground as the wide receivers shake their head in amazement. The last thing I wanted to see is that they would bring him back. what? he is going to have some upside this year? It is going to be a very boring year I am afraid.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867 
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Post by cdj on Mar 12, 2021 20:10:18 GMT -5
They’re paying him backup money, I don’t understand the fuss
They needed *somebody* in place other than Stidham before attacking free agency for offense and Newton at least has cache around the league. He’s the worst case scenario if all the QBs are off the board by the time they pick and somebody like Jimmy G doesn’t become available
Best case is they draft Lance and transition him halfway through the season but I’ve said that a million times at this point
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2021 7:46:18 GMT -5
I’m really wondering if a trade for OBJ is in the cards this year. His cap hit of 15m isn’t so bad for the next 3 years. I doubt he’d rework it, but there’s also no dead money after this season. If he can be had for a second day pick, then I’d be all over it. Cleveland did well without him and could use the money elsewhere or for a cheaper replacement.
Trade for OBJ, sign Samuel and either Henry or Smith and you’ll have something really cooking. Would prefer Henry for his blocking ability but Smith may be cheaper and is more dynamic. OBJ and Samuel would add 2 fast quick play makers to the team. Playing them with Meyers and Edelman would be nice. Julian’s snaps could be managed and he would be operating without double teams. I chose Samuel over other WRs because his contract will be way less and I do think his speed element is something this team really needs. McDaniels could have fun with him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2021 11:52:36 GMT -5
Cam Newton will be fine given that contract if they actually create a situation where if he falters they have options. Sign another QB that has starting ability, trade for a guy or draft a guy high in the draft.
So what's the issue then? Can you get another QB you want to sign? My top two targets would be Mariota and Brissett right now. I'd feel a lot better with one of them, yet you just hurt your chances at getting them also.
You never know how the NFL will go with QBs, half the time they rise, half the time they fall. Yet Newton could play a role in that they aren't as aggressive as they might have been. I'm also looking at style of play. As in does Newton with his style and system mean Jones and Trask are no longer options? You can't run the same offense with those two as you would Newton. So any mid- season change would require adjusting the whole offense and that's certainly not ideal. For me that matters because those were the two guys you had the best chance at and they are both guys that could play as rookies. The next tier in Mond and Newman are much more developmental type QBs. David Mills who is a hot name connected to the Patriots lately is extremely raw with very little game experience. I actually like him, in that Tom Brady, Cassell, Hoyer type developmental type QB, yet you don't want him playing next year. There are no Russell Wilson type QBs in this draft, Trask is the only guy that looks like he might be being undervalued. So there's a really good chance you can't get a guy in the draft to challenge Newton this year unless you get aggressive and trade up.
Now I'm fairly certain Jimmy is the one guy they'd for sure add if he's available. Yet that's not a perfect fit also, they would both need different offenses. I'd wonder how that would go, we've never seen that during Bills time here.
I can certainly see things working out great, with a Lance or Fields being drafted or another good free agent QB brought in. I also see a path were that doesn't happen because Bill is focused on building the team so Newton can do well. That's the path that worries me.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2021 12:21:12 GMT -5
I’m really wondering if a trade for OBJ is in the cards this year. His cap hit of 15m isn’t so bad for the next 3 years. I doubt he’d rework it, but there’s also no dead money after this season. If he can be had for a second day pick, then I’d be all over it. Cleveland did well without him and could use the money elsewhere or for a cheaper replacement. Trade for OBJ, sign Samuel and either Henry or Smith and you’ll have something really cooking. Would prefer Henry for his blocking ability but Smith may be cheaper and is more dynamic. OBJ and Samuel would add 2 fast quick play makers to the team. Playing them with Meyers and Edelman would be nice. Julian’s snaps could be managed and he would be operating without double teams. I chose Samuel over other WRs because his contract will be way less and I do think his speed element is something this team really needs. McDaniels could have fun with him. I won't dismiss this as a possibility, it's basically 2007 with Moss, Welker and Stallworth. I'm not a big OBJ fan, he's about as anti patriot player you can get, yet so was Randy Moss. He's not the same guy he was his first three years and I don't see Newton being able to change that if any QB can. I'd say my bigger issue would be spending something around 30-35 million on those guys with Newton at QB. Yeah he needs help, yet he's not Brady who spreads the ball around and the more weapons the better either. I do wonder if you'd start getting diminishing returns adding that much and spending that much on offense. Newton isn't Brady, he's not going to win you games by out scoring everyone no matter the weapons you give him. I see just as much need on the defensive side of the ball. Build a great defense, so the bar for Newton to win games is much lower. That's going to be hard if we spend 2/3 of our money on offense. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2021 12:40:22 GMT -5
I’m really wondering if a trade for OBJ is in the cards this year. His cap hit of 15m isn’t so bad for the next 3 years. I doubt he’d rework it, but there’s also no dead money after this season. If he can be had for a second day pick, then I’d be all over it. Cleveland did well without him and could use the money elsewhere or for a cheaper replacement. Trade for OBJ, sign Samuel and either Henry or Smith and you’ll have something really cooking. Would prefer Henry for his blocking ability but Smith may be cheaper and is more dynamic. OBJ and Samuel would add 2 fast quick play makers to the team. Playing them with Meyers and Edelman would be nice. Julian’s snaps could be managed and he would be operating without double teams. I chose Samuel over other WRs because his contract will be way less and I do think his speed element is something this team really needs. McDaniels could have fun with him. I won't dismiss this as a possibility, it's basically 2007 with Moss, Welker and Stallworth. I'm not a big OBJ fan, he's about as anti patriot player you can get, yet so was Randy Moss. He's not the same guy he was his first three years and I don't see Newton being able to change that if any QB can. I'd say my bigger issue would be spending something around 30-35 million on those guys with Newton at QB. Yeah he needs help, yet he's not Brady who spreads the ball around and the more weapons the better either. I do wonder if you'd start getting diminishing returns adding that much and spending that much on offense. Newton isn't Brady, he's not going to win you games by out scoring everyone no matter the weapons you give him. I see just as much need on the defensive side of the ball. Build a great defense, so the bar for Newton to win games is much lower. That's going to be hard if we spend 2/3 of our money on offense. There are going to be moves made to free up more money this year. Cannon getting cut, Gilmore extended or traded, Hightower extension maybe, plus other options. They’ll have more than the 65 they have now to work with. I’m with you on OBJ, I don’t love him as a player, just felt he’s a realistic option so I listed it. However, I disagree on the need for multiple weapons. Cam needs it, the offense needs it and whoever else may be QB will need it. You can’t go into the season adding one weapon and expecting different results. The reason, I went for a guy like Samuel is because if what he adds to the run game as well . |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 13, 2021 12:45:39 GMT -5
After what we saw last year, either Stidham sucks and they have no faith in him or there’s basically no way Cam can play himself out of the job. I don’t see why a veteran QB would come here to compete for a starting job. Brisset probably has to accept a true backup role but i don’t think Mariotta would.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2021 12:59:24 GMT -5
I won't dismiss this as a possibility, it's basically 2007 with Moss, Welker and Stallworth. I'm not a big OBJ fan, he's about as anti patriot player you can get, yet so was Randy Moss. He's not the same guy he was his first three years and I don't see Newton being able to change that if any QB can. I'd say my bigger issue would be spending something around 30-35 million on those guys with Newton at QB. Yeah he needs help, yet he's not Brady who spreads the ball around and the more weapons the better either. I do wonder if you'd start getting diminishing returns adding that much and spending that much on offense. Newton isn't Brady, he's not going to win you games by out scoring everyone no matter the weapons you give him. I see just as much need on the defensive side of the ball. Build a great defense, so the bar for Newton to win games is much lower. That's going to be hard if we spend 2/3 of our money on offense. There are going to be moves made to free up more money this year. Cannon getting cut, Gilmore extended or traded, Hightower extension maybe, plus other options. They’ll have more than the 65 they have now to work with. I’m with you on OBJ, I don’t love him as a player, just felt he’s a realistic option so I listed it. However, I disagree on the need for multiple weapons. Cam needs it, the offense needs it and whoever else may be QB will need it. You can’t go into the season adding one weapon and expecting different results. The reason, I went for a guy like Samuel is because if what he adds to the run game as well . I 100% agree he needs more weapons, it's just I don't see adding three of like the top ten options on the market. Adam Humphries was a target that wanted before and with Edelman maybe not healthy he makes sense, shouldn't cost much. David Moore catches everything thrown his way, a plus for a guy like Newton. I wasn't a huge fan of Samuel, yet with Newton back he makes a lot more sense. I wouldn't mind Byrd being back. I like Rudolph as a much cheaper option at TE, gives you that big red zone target we desperately need. Humphries and Rudolph were both cut, so they won't count towards comp picks and you know Bill loves those guys. Maybe bring in a Kenny Still to battle Lee for your vertical receiver. I see a big upgrade, just not the huge flashing signings many expect. Bill loves to mine the solid portion of free agency to build up great depth. I see one big splash coming, yet it's Bill so who knows. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2021 13:04:01 GMT -5
After what we saw last year, either Stidham sucks and they have no faith in him or there’s basically no way Cam can play himself out of the job. I don’t see why a veteran QB would come here to compete for a starting job. Brisset probably has to accept a true backup role but i don’t think Mariotta would. I would be 100% fine with Brissett, heck he might be the most logical choice given he spent a year in the system already. He looked rather good before he injured his shoulder in 2019. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 14, 2021 11:45:50 GMT -5
Chiefs already restructuring Mahomes contract. Like omg it's a year old, these were the cheap years. 2021 was the cheapest year on the deal, they have now increased every other years price.
How long till he's like Wilson bitching about the talent around him?
It's like the top QBs didn't learn anything from Brady. That's one of the biggest things with him, he never demanded top of the market money. He was smart enough to know that it was really money versus winning. It's darn near impossible to have both long-term.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2021 12:45:36 GMT -5
Cannon traded to Texans - looks like they swapped picks in rounds 4-6. Basically, Pats traded up in 3 rounds but didn’t add picks. Assuming report I saw was accurate.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2021 12:49:39 GMT -5
Chiefs already restructuring Mahomes contract. Like omg it's a year old, these were the cheap years. 2021 was the cheapest year on the deal, they have now increased every other years price. How long till he's like Wilson bitching about the talent around him? It's like the top QBs didn't learn anything from Brady. That's one of the biggest things with him, he never demanded top of the market money. He was smart enough to know that it was really money versus winning. It's darn near impossible to have both long-term. The best part is he thinks he did a team friendly deal. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 14, 2021 13:09:21 GMT -5
Looks like 120 for 109, 158 for 147 and 196 for 187.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 14, 2021 14:13:00 GMT -5
First batch of draft magazines! I get way too much joy from this haha 🤣
One of the best parts is ranking the positions overall from Lindy's Sports
QB- A
RB- B
WR- B+
TE- C+
OT- A
OG- B-
OC- B-
DE- B
DT- C+
ILB- C
OLB- B+
CB- B-
S- B
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 14, 2021 14:36:39 GMT -5
Really like that Cannon deal, I figured they would just cut him
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2021 15:06:00 GMT -5
Really like that Cannon deal, I figured they would just cut him Agreed it’s pretty creative. It’s not a big return but it’s useful to move up 10ish spots in 3 different rounds. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 14, 2021 15:29:19 GMT -5
You gained 30 points, equal to a 5th round pick, actually the 6th pick in that round.
Yet starting day 3 you now have the 4th pick in the 4th round. That's big as teams really value those picks. Great chance to pick a guy you didn't think would be there or trade it to another team.
A creative way to get a good return.
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Post by texs31 on Mar 14, 2021 15:49:53 GMT -5
How my brain works . . .
If anyone had suggested a trade to move up (in RD 1 for a QB maybe?) by saying ". . . and Marcus Cannon for the number X pick", I think we all would have rolled our eyes. But, if any of these picks are used to move up then, to some extent, that's what would've happened.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 14, 2021 16:35:32 GMT -5
How my brain works . . . If anyone had suggested a trade to move up (in RD 1 for a QB maybe?) by saying ". . . and Marcus Cannon for the number X pick", I think we all would have rolled our eyes. But, if any of these picks are used to move up then, to some extent, that's what would've happened. Wouldn’t it be like using Cannon and our pick in that round since we didn’t gain a pick we just moved up in that round. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 15, 2021 6:17:04 GMT -5
How my brain works . . . If anyone had suggested a trade to move up (in RD 1 for a QB maybe?) by saying ". . . and Marcus Cannon for the number X pick", I think we all would have rolled our eyes. But, if any of these picks are used to move up then, to some extent, that's what would've happened. Wouldn’t it be like using Cannon and our pick in that round since we didn’t gain a pick we just moved up in that round. Right. What i meant was, if someone had said " . . . and pick 120 + Marcus Cannon", then it would be silly. But if someone now says " . . . and pick 109" |
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