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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 15:43:32 GMT -5
Maybe, but so far Bills done the exact opposite this year and drafted guys at spots with really good value. There’s not one reach so far. You don’t draft for need in the draft when a player you have a round higher grade on is sitting there for you. For example - they may really like Wallace at 96, but had a 2nd round grade on Perkins - high don’t pass on the second rounder for need at that point in the draft. Trust me, I want a receiver with this next pick too. Losing that 3rd rounder is painful. I was talking about going forward. You know that won't likely continue. You're just going off some rankings. My draft magazines have 2/3 and 3rd round grades on him. I have a 2nd round grade on Wallace, one of the most underrated WRs in this class. You used 2nd and 3rd round picks on OLB last year passing on WRs. You signed two darn good OLB in free agency. I love me value, yet I'm so sick and tired of them drafting no WRs. You got Mac Jones and I'm a huge believer in when you take a first round QB, you take weapons to grow with him. Yeah it is, yet trading two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots is also painful. Depends where those 8 spots are. Those were a pretty critical 8 spots in an impact part of the draft. It was probably a bit of an overpay but it’s one I’m good with considering their lack of roster spots + need for interior pass rush. It’s also not a particularly deep class so they probably don’t place a ton of value on these picks today I like the McGrone pick a lot. I could do without the Bledsoe pick but whatever. I like the guard pick, he seems to have an interesting profile (played tackle, played well, just has short arms) |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 16:04:02 GMT -5
I was talking about going forward. You know that won't likely continue. You're just going off some rankings. My draft magazines have 2/3 and 3rd round grades on him. I have a 2nd round grade on Wallace, one of the most underrated WRs in this class. You used 2nd and 3rd round picks on OLB last year passing on WRs. You signed two darn good OLB in free agency. I love me value, yet I'm so sick and tired of them drafting no WRs. You got Mac Jones and I'm a huge believer in when you take a first round QB, you take weapons to grow with him. Yeah it is, yet trading two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots is also painful. Depends where those 8 spots are. Those were a pretty critical 8 spots in an impact part of the draft. It was probably a bit of an overpay but it’s one I’m good with considering their lack of roster spots + need for interior pass rush. It’s also not a particularly deep class so they probably don’t place a ton of value on these picks today I like the McGrone pick a lot. I could do without the Bledsoe pick but whatever. I like the guard pick, he seems to have an interesting profile (played tackle, played well, just has short arms) We will see. Overall my #2 need was WR, they didn't take one yet again. I also don't agree this wasn't a deep draft, the 4th round had great value. |
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Post by wildsox on May 1, 2021 16:05:37 GMT -5
Maybe, but so far Bills done the exact opposite this year and drafted guys at spots with really good value. There’s not one reach so far. You don’t draft for need in the draft when a player you have a round higher grade on is sitting there for you. For example - they may really like Wallace at 96, but had a 2nd round grade on Perkins - high don’t pass on the second rounder for need at that point in the draft. Trust me, I want a receiver with this next pick too. Losing that 3rd rounder is painful. I was talking about going forward. You know that won't likely continue. You're just going off some rankings. My draft magazines have 2/3 and 3rd round grades on him. I have a 2nd round grade on Wallace, one of the most underrated WRs in this class. You used 2nd and 3rd round picks on OLB last year passing on WRs. You signed two darn good OLB in free agency. I love me value, yet I'm so sick and tired of them drafting no WRs. You got Mac Jones and I'm a huge believer in when you take a first round QB, you take weapons to grow with him. Yeah it is, yet trading two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots is also painful. After seeing the WR's they've busted in previous years Harry,Mitchell,Dobson,Berrios etc. I'd much rather see them take a player they like then try to force a receiver they aren't sold on just so they can say they took a receiver. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 16:12:33 GMT -5
I was talking about going forward. You know that won't likely continue. You're just going off some rankings. My draft magazines have 2/3 and 3rd round grades on him. I have a 2nd round grade on Wallace, one of the most underrated WRs in this class. You used 2nd and 3rd round picks on OLB last year passing on WRs. You signed two darn good OLB in free agency. I love me value, yet I'm so sick and tired of them drafting no WRs. You got Mac Jones and I'm a huge believer in when you take a first round QB, you take weapons to grow with him. Yeah it is, yet trading two fourth round picks to move up 8 spots is also painful. After seeing the WR's they've busted in previous years Harry,Mitchell,Dobson,Berrios etc. I'd much rather see them take a player they like then try to force a receiver they aren't sold on just so they can say they took a receiver. I'm sorry yet that's crazy in today's NFL. Where are we going to get our WRs then? How about you change things up and get good at drafting WRs? I would have been crazy happy with Wallace in the 4th, even Stevenson in the 6th. So I'm not demanding high picks. Have you seen how our recent picks have done? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 16:30:42 GMT -5
Lazar pointed it out on twitter but the pats system makes it incredibly tough for them to project receivers from the college ranks. Guys like Wallace come from an air raid with a limited route tree from the outside, it’s something that could be great in another system but Probably doesn’t work out here due to the adjustment to the system being so huge
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 16:40:32 GMT -5
Lazar pointed it out on twitter but the pats system makes it incredibly tough for them to project receivers from the college ranks. Guys like Wallace come from an air raid with a limited route tree from the outside, it’s something that could be great in another system but Probably doesn’t work out here due to the adjustment to the system being so huge He's one of the best route runners in the draft, which was a big reason I focused on him. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 16:55:28 GMT -5
Lazar pointed it out on twitter but the pats system makes it incredibly tough for them to project receivers from the college ranks. Guys like Wallace come from an air raid with a limited route tree from the outside, it’s something that could be great in another system but Probably doesn’t work out here due to the adjustment to the system being so huge He's one of the best route runners in the draft, which was a big reason I focused on him. Yeah I’m sure he runs clean routes- you’d almost have to given the production- he probably just doesn’t run a ton of them. Or at least not a ton of option routes. It’s a simplified playbook for the WR relative to what the patriots run, and that’s the case for most college offenses |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 17:05:19 GMT -5
Yeah I’m sure he runs clean routes- you’d almost have to given the production- he probably just doesn’t run a ton of them. Or at least not a ton of option routes. It’s a simplified playbook for the WR relative to what the patriots run, and that’s the case for most college offenses Based on what? He's not Aaron Dobson who basically did just one thing. Wallace ran multiple routes, inside and outside. If he's not good for you, then you're saying basically no WR is. Like Wallace did more than Harry did in College. Now if you tell me he's not smart okay. Has any Patriots WR that busted done anything after leaving? It's not our playback or offense, they just aren't making good picks. They bust at a high level, so you have to take a bunch of them. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 17:09:58 GMT -5
Yeah I’m sure he runs clean routes- you’d almost have to given the production- he probably just doesn’t run a ton of them. Or at least not a ton of option routes. It’s a simplified playbook for the WR relative to what the patriots run, and that’s the case for most college offenses Based on what? He's not Aaron Dobson who basically did just one thing. Wallace ran multiple routes, inside and outside. If he's not good for you, then you're saying basically no WR is. Like Wallace did more than Harry did in College. Now if you tell me he's not smart okay. Has any Patriots WR that busted done anything after leaving? It's not our playback or offense, they just aren't making good picks. They bust at a high level, so you have to take a bunch of them. Well I think once you leave and you’re like 26 entering a new system as a depth receiver you’re probably not going to bust out. I do agree that they mostly aren’t good picks though Like if Harry got picked by another team? I do think he could have found success. And based off of these air raid college concepts being wildly different than what the pats run? They probably need to learn 5 or 6 routes and not have to worry about a million different options on top of that. Idk i think that’s pretty obvious. I get why that makes it hard to project guys from the college ranks and I think it’s why you see them have far more success getting their receivers from the pro ranks |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 1, 2021 17:13:51 GMT -5
Tre Nixon WR UCF
A wideout!!!
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Post by rjp313jr on May 1, 2021 17:20:16 GMT -5
There you go UMass, got your receiver.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 17:29:43 GMT -5
Okay I'm impressed for a 7th round pick.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 1, 2021 17:39:41 GMT -5
Cameron McGrone is a good pick, smaller fast LB. Yet recovering from torn ACL and already tore his ACL in his other knee. Lacks coverage abilities, yet a huge upgrade over Bentley if he gets healthy. Bill suggested he was going to miss this year which makes sense... pup him. Don’t use a roster spot |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 17:46:59 GMT -5
When did UCF become a WR factory?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 1, 2021 17:54:14 GMT -5
www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/stats/Tre-Nixon-WR-UCFThat's an impressive blend of speed, size, jump abilities and change of direction skills. Yet you don't see any wiggle on tape, he's a deep threat. Production wasn't great, yet played with two guys that got drafted the last two years.
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Post by rasimon on May 1, 2021 19:46:15 GMT -5
some interesting undrafted free agents
Ar'Darius Washington S TCU - signed with Ravens maybe
Cade Johnson WR SD State - signed with Seahawks
Shakur Brown CB MI State - signed with Steelers
Jamie Newman QB Wake Forest/Georgia - looks like he signed with PHI
Dylan Moses LB Alabama - signed with Jags
....ok so much for that
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Post by rjp313jr on May 2, 2021 6:53:26 GMT -5
This way too early roster projection only includes their first 4 picks and illustrates why they were willing to deal both those 4ths to move up for Barmore. First, I think it was because his talent is too immense to pass on, but also they made 9’picks and only 4 of them are guaranteed to make the roster. I don’t think they wanted 6 picks in the top 4 rounds that they needed to roster. There just isn’t the room for it. I left Wino and some others off the roster - he’s a candidate to fill one of the last 2 spots.
Purpose of this was mostly to illustrate the low number of roster spots they had available for higher (top 4) round rookies.
QB
1. Cam
2. Stidham
3. Mac Jones
RB
5. Harris
6. Michel
7. White
8. Stevenson
TE/FB
9. Smith
10. Henry
11. Asiasi
WR
12. Algholor
13. Bourne
14. Meyers
OL.
15. Wynn
16. Onwenu
17. Andrew’s
18. Mason
19. Brown
20. Karras
21. Herron
DL
22. Godchaux
23. Anderson
24. Barmore
25. Guy
26. Wise
27. Adams
Edge
27. Judon
28. KVN
29. Perry
LB:
30. Hightower
31. Uche
32. Jennings
CB:
33. Gilmore
34. Jackson
35. Jones
S:
36. McCourty
37. Duggar
38. Phillips
39. Mills
Special teams
40. Cardona
41. Bailey
42. Folk
Leaves 11 spots most likely to go here:
43. Slater
44. Bethel
45. RB5 (prob Bolden)
46. Gunner (punt returner and WR)
47. TE/FB Keane or Johnson
48. CB4 (Williams, Bryant, Jackson, Ross)
49. CB5 (Williams, Bryant, Jackson, Ross)
50. WR5 (Harry most likely)
51. OL8
52. Safety/LB/Edge
53. Safety/LB/Edge
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costpet
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Post by costpet on May 2, 2021 7:24:55 GMT -5
Listed 27 twice. Missing 4. Evens out.
Likely Bill brings in 3-4 kickers.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 2, 2021 7:46:08 GMT -5
I do wish that Belichick had brought in a promising wide receiver (yeah I know Tre Nixon was drafted in round 7). I'm a bit uneasy about their receiving corps. I guess it'll be a lot of short screens to White and a lot of passes to tight ends, not that that can't work - Brady did that for years, but still it would be nice to have a go-to-true #1 receiver.
Julio Jones is available in a deal but I don't see Belichick going in that direction.
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Post by texs31 on May 2, 2021 10:03:33 GMT -5
Evan Lazar had a few comments on the lack of a WR (1 was snarky but the others potentially useful)
- He continues to be amazed at the people who wanted BB to draft a WR while also saying the Pats stink at drafting WRs.
- He talked about a time where BB said that projecting a college WR (simple route trees) into their offense is one of the hardest things to do given how complex their offense is. Bit easier to project for FAs.
- Wonders if "ignoring" the last 2 WR groups is an admission of a blind spot in their process.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on May 2, 2021 11:12:38 GMT -5
I haven't seen any UDFA connected to the Pats. Surprised no one has leaked yet. Guessing a smaller class than normal but still hope for some hidden gems
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 2, 2021 12:06:31 GMT -5
My two cents, finding WR for our offense I don't think is hard. Finding WR for Tom Brady the ultimate timing passer in NFL history was hard. That was much more Tom Brady than the offense. I mean look at Meyers with Stidham and Newton versus Brady. Both Stidham and Newton formed a chemistry with Meyers almost overnight, Brady had him benched.
You have a lot more wiggle room with WRs now without Brady. I mean come on finding WRs that can run routes is easy, just avoid the simple offense where guys run limited routes. You need to find WRs that fit Mac Jones, not Tom Brady. A guy like Waddle wasn't a great route runner. Mac Jones excelled with weapons and so does Cam Newton, hell most QBs do. Most QBs want guys that can get open, not guys they throw open.
I'm sorry, yet just because you suck at drafting WRs doesn't give you a pass when you don't address a huge need at WR in a crazy deep WR class. Hire some new scouts. Teams like the 49ers that run a similar offense don't have any issues.
Why in the world did they take Harry if they worry about guys and routes?
If you wanted to say we're not using high picks on WRs because we basically suck at it, okay. Take a bunch of mid to late round guys. I would have been thrilled with guys like Wallace and Stevenson. Wallace was just perfect, the exact type of WR they should target. Stevenson was just unreal value because of how deep the draft was, just like him go 4th round in a ton of drafts.
Tre Nixon has limited tape, yet nothing on it screams great route runner. Frankly his 3 cone time surprises me given his tape. He does a very good job of getting open deep on tape and makes some nice catches. Former top high school recruit. It just shows the depth of this draft. So I love the pick, yet guys like Wallace and Stevenson do much more of what we do on tape. Nixon looks like Nelson Agholor last year with Oakland. Maybe Chris Hogan is a better comp.
I'm so excited that we'll spend higher picks in future drafts that likely won't be as good as this one on WRs. All because the Patriots can't get there crap together and learn to scout WRs. Likely the second most important position in today's NFL. Mac Jones isn't Tom Brady, he excelled with unreal weapons in College. No QB in History has made it harder to draft WRs than Tom Brady did, yet he's gone. I can't think of a worse thing to do after taking a first round QB than not getting him weapons when WR was your second biggest need. So many excuses for the Patriots, it's comical.
I don't mind the draft, yet it feels like a major missed opportunity. Stevenson over Wallace is a head scratcher. You could have taken many guys latter, Kylin Hill went 7th round. At 96 with Perkins you can make the case you took best player available, you can't say that at 120. If so many of these guys aren't going to make the team and be practice squad players, why not target WRs? Heck even CB that sure seems like a bigger need. We only have one WR that scares anyone in Agholor, he's only done that once and drops a bunch of passes every year.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on May 2, 2021 12:20:09 GMT -5
They’ve now brought in 5 pass catchers this offseason, people talk about the need for a wideout but they have a new #1 wideout. His name is Hunter Henry. Now you may not like that but it’s going to be the reality of the situation
Agholor/Bourne/Meyers is fine when you consider that position is not the engine that drives the offense. That’s not to say you can get by with scrubs- we’ve learned that you can’t- but those 3 are talented enough to get open and work when you have 2 #1 TE’s and a power run game with 3 backs
The more I see on Stevenson the more I like the pick. The Ronnie Perkins pick is great value but that’s the spot I wish they went in another direction
I also wish they used a late pick on Stone Forsythe but they must not be impressed by him
My draft grade is a B. Overall I’m pretty happy with what they accomplished
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 2, 2021 12:28:20 GMT -5
Give you an example
120. Tylan Wallace
188. Chris Evans, Kylin Hill, Larry Roundtree all guys I have rated very similar to Stevenson.
197. Marquez Stevenson
242. Tre Nixon
That's not a ton of draft capital value wise. Yet you get three WRs that are all good athletes, had good production in College and it fills all three WR positions. You got a slot guy, a guy that can switch and an x WR. That's the value approach to finding WRs. Made possible because this was a crazy deep class. Throw enough darts at the board and you'll find some good WRs.
You won't find WRs if you don't draft any!
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Post by rjp313jr on May 2, 2021 15:39:24 GMT -5
Just want to prepare people that the majority of this draft class is probably for the 22 season not this year. The impact young guys should be from the previous two classes. I include Jones in that. Don’t expect to see much of him.
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