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Patriots 2021 Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 13, 2021 9:03:07 GMT -5
My crazy call for the season is that BB plays both Cam and Mac by mid season. Cam will most likely be starting in the beginning, if he looks good he stays #1. But most likely he won't look great and Mac will be starting by mid October. Then BB will pull a Saints move and throw Cam in to run RPO once in a while in short yardage. That would make the opposing D have to prepare for more looks and BB loves making it hard on the opposition. Remember the Seahawks game last year. The Pats were successful with Cam in the gun running RPO many times all game and then they finally stopped him on the last play of the game or the Pats win it. I think we will see a lot of that this year, Bill playing both guys. Also if the Pats are down late or down by more than 10 or so who would you rather see in there, for me that will be when Mac gets his first shot or 2. I think BB will believe they have a better shot in coming back from down a couple scores with Mac. Maybe just maybe that will be the Bucs and Brady game, they will be down and Mac will make his 1st appearance, how fitting. Don't go crazy on me, these are just a few out there calls. The Mac Cam name thing is funny btw. I won’t go crazy. It’s a valid thought process, I just doubt Bill or Josh will be putting Cam in for trick plays. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2021 10:43:44 GMT -5
I won't be happy till we put up big passing numbers.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 13, 2021 11:23:14 GMT -5
My crazy call for the season is that BB plays both Cam and Mac by mid season. Cam will most likely be starting in the beginning, if he looks good he stays #1. But most likely he won't look great and Mac will be starting by mid October. Then BB will pull a Saints move and throw Cam in to run RPO once in a while in short yardage. That would make the opposing D have to prepare for more looks and BB loves making it hard on the opposition. Remember the Seahawks game last year. The Pats were successful with Cam in the gun running RPO many times all game and then they finally stopped him on the last play of the game or the Pats win it. I think we will see a lot of that this year, Bill playing both guys. Also if the Pats are down late or down by more than 10 or so who would you rather see in there, for me that will be when Mac gets his first shot or 2. I think BB will believe they have a better shot in coming back from down a couple scores with Mac. Maybe just maybe that will be the Bucs and Brady game, they will be down and Mac will make his 1st appearance, how fitting. Don't go crazy on me, these are just a few out there calls. The Mac Cam name thing is funny btw. I won’t go crazy. It’s a valid thought process, I just doubt Bill or Josh will be putting Cam in for trick plays. I don't see them as trick plays when it is what teams all over the league are doing with QBs that can run. They will also be the plays the team uses when Cam is the starter, which I expect to be at least part of the season. I did think the same thing as you though when taking BB into consideration as he hasn't shown to be like that in the past but in this case it could make sense. And third string guys or not they are still fast so for Stevenson to roll down the sideline for 90 yards shows some impressive speed for a guy that big, it impressed me anyways. Especially after watching his college tape where I never really saw that. But you are right, maybe not truly home run speed. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 13, 2021 11:35:03 GMT -5
I won't be happy till we put up big passing numbers. Come on umass, maybe that happens down the road a bit with Mac just like that took time for Brady. You wouldn't be happy with the early Brady years when he was more of a game manager and they won with D and a balanced attack built on running the ball? When the league zigs BB likes to zag, top 5 D, top 5 running game and a passing game that keeps the D from loading up the box and leads to 12 wins and the playoffs. You won't be happy with that? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2021 12:29:54 GMT -5
I won’t go crazy. It’s a valid thought process, I just doubt Bill or Josh will be putting Cam in for trick plays. I don't see them as trick plays when it is what teams all over the league are doing with QBs that can run. They will also be the plays the team uses when Cam is the starter, which I expect to be at least part of the season. I did think the same thing as you though when taking BB into consideration as he hasn't shown to be like that in the past but in this case it could make sense. And third string guys or not they are still fast so for Stevenson to roll down the sideline for 90 yards shows some impressive speed for a guy that big, it impressed me anyways. Especially after watching his college tape where I never really saw that. But you are right, maybe not truly home run speed. I don't see HR speed. I do see he has a second gear like Blunt and those guys aren't easy to bring down even if you can catch them. That's all he needs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 13, 2021 12:39:49 GMT -5
I won't be happy till we put up big passing numbers. Come on umass, maybe that happens down the road a bit with Mac just like that took time for Brady. You wouldn't be happy with the early Brady years when he was more of a game manager and they won with D and a balanced attack built on running the ball? When the league zigs BB likes to zag, top 5 D, top 5 running game and a passing game that keeps the D from loading up the box and leads to 12 wins and the playoffs. You won't be happy with that? It's not even just Mac Jones, yet the complete team. I want to see 250-300 yards in games. I have big questions if you can do that without being much better passing that we were last year. The game has changed in the last 20 years, that's putting too much pressure on your D. Nevermind even when Brady was so-so, he was still the best clutch QB of all time. I think Jones has a better chance of putting up big numbers than becoming clutch Brady this year. Being clutch at QB is so rare and Brady really spoiled us for years It's early, a few big name weapons were out, so it's not crazy bad. Yet in the next few games I'm looking for more passing yards. Show that you can move the ball through the air. You know actually be able to get your monies worth out of our big weapon signings. |
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Post by bcsox on Aug 13, 2021 12:47:57 GMT -5
I dont care if it is against 3rd stringers, or what, but a 90 plus yard run from scrimmage is legit in an NFL game. Good for the kid. That being sent, absent a body being sent packing(Sony, possibly James White), or an injury, I dont think the kid is going to be a factor this year. The Patriots often redshirt their running backs, Vereen, White, Harris, as examples, and I think this kid will be on that schedule. Again, an injury or trade may make a spot available to him, but as it sits now, I think he is the odd man out.
Was really hoping to see NKeal go off after everything we have read about in practice. I have been pulling for this kid since the day he was drafted. He was in for almost 40 plays last night and go one line of scrimmage crossing pattern. I think this was his chance. My guess is if Agholor dresses against Philly, we are going to see NKeal until its Hoyer time. Wilkerson is getting open and getting the ball thrown to him. I think he gets 4th WR reps ahead of NKeal next week.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862 
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Post by cdj on Aug 13, 2021 22:55:19 GMT -5
They mentioned how Wilkerson has been working with Slater and Bethel too, makes me think that will give him the inside track on a roster spot over Harry
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 14, 2021 6:13:42 GMT -5
I want to see big passing numbers too, but you probably won’t be finding that much in the preseason when you are throwing behind scrub linemen.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 14, 2021 18:20:10 GMT -5
If no QBs are going to put up big passing numbers you have to be worried. If you have backup OL guys in, they are most likely going against backup DL guys.
I keep reading articles how Gilmore has the upper hand, we should just cave in even after a so-so season by him last year because we are all in and built to win now. The only thing I'm worried about is our QB play and basically passing. We invested a ton in four offensive weapons, yet it won't matter without improved QB play. Only thing I really care about is our QBs showing an improved passing attack this preseason.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,862
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Post by cdj on Aug 14, 2021 19:06:17 GMT -5
I think Henry and Agholor are probably their two top targets so I’m not gonna be too concerned about the passing numbers without them. I think Mac is going to be a product of the guys around him. You put him in a favorable situation and he’ll shine, you make him the guy that’s supposed to carry the team early on without a lot of help and he will falter
Cam just can’t throw anymore, the shoulder is shot. Use him as the backup and in short yardage packages
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 14, 2021 20:32:47 GMT -5
That's the thing I don't trust Cam Newton and Stidham is out. So please Mac Jones kick Newtons butt so we can trade him. I just don’t see how Newton uses the new weapons. I can see Mac Jones using them. Mac Jones is a Patriot type QB. You can run our normal offense, not what we got last year. I can't take another year of running on clear passing downs. I truly fear another year of Newton because Bill likes and respects him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Aug 15, 2021 7:01:27 GMT -5
That's the thing I don't trust Cam Newton and Stidham is out. So please Mac Jones kick Newtons butt so we can trade him. I just don’t see how Newton uses the new weapons. I can see Mac Jones using them. Mac Jones is a Patriot type QB. You can run our normal offense, not what we got last year. I can't take another year of running on clear passing downs. I truly fear another year of Newton because Bill likes and respects him. For a guy who’s just going to let Cam have the job, he’s going about it in a weird way. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 15, 2021 12:17:53 GMT -5
That's the thing I don't trust Cam Newton and Stidham is out. So please Mac Jones kick Newtons butt so we can trade him. I just don’t see how Newton uses the new weapons. I can see Mac Jones using them. Mac Jones is a Patriot type QB. You can run our normal offense, not what we got last year. I can't take another year of running on clear passing downs. I truly fear another year of Newton because Bill likes and respects him. For a guy who’s just going to let Cam have the job, he’s going about it in a weird way. That's my whole point, have Mac Jones earn the starting spot. Bill has handed Newton the starting gig, yet is giving Jones a chance to earn it. Otherwise you'll have an offense that practices and is built around Newton, so if you switch you have to change everything. That's not ideal no matter how you look at it. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2021 11:32:46 GMT -5
Drew Bledsoe wants Cam Newton to start the whole year. I love Bledsoe, that's when a young kid fell in love with football and the Patriots. Yet it really shows me why he was never truly elite with his rocket arm. Sure Newton didn't have great talent, yet he couldn't make the easy timing throws that make up the Patriots offense. Never seen a QB bounce more passes at the WR feet than Newton did last year.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 18, 2021 6:12:38 GMT -5
Vegas over/under for the Pats 9.5 wins.
I think that is worth loading up on!
I think 12 wins is in the cards.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Aug 18, 2021 7:06:20 GMT -5
Vegas over/under for the Pats 9.5 wins. I think that is worth loading up on! I think 12 wins is in the cards. 9 or 10 feels right to me. I think the QB play will hold them back a few games, and the defense will steal a few games (esp if/when Gilly is back). But overall it's a good solid deep team. Still hoping for a WR upgrade though. Haven't kept track on potential veteran cuts. |
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 18, 2021 7:48:59 GMT -5
Vegas over/under for the Pats 9.5 wins. I think that is worth loading up on! I think 12 wins is in the cards. 9 or 10 feels right to me. I think the QB play will hold them back a few games, and the defense will steal a few games (esp if/when Gilly is back). But overall it's a good solid deep team. Still hoping for a WR upgrade though. Haven't kept track on potential veteran cuts. My optimism in winning more is based on adding 4 offensive weapons , including 2 top TE's and the potential of the OL and running game to be dominant. And if Cam struggles I think Mac will be good enough to be an instant game manager that can keep the O on time. On defense they have added 3 LB's that are better than any LB on last yrs team and 2 know the system. The DL should also be improved with a couple new additions, then throw in the development of a couple 2nd yr players and rookies that have stood out at times. Last years roster was easily the worst one in many years leading them to go nuts in FA and they still won 7 and could have won more. I trust BB will get them turned around this year. We shall see. Having said all that, based on a 9.5 Vegas line I would say that your prediction is in line with the money so maybe I am just a homer. And that's fine with me. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 18, 2021 11:33:01 GMT -5
You caught teams off-guard last year with a Patriot offense unlike anything we've done before. Yet as the season went along teams figured it out. Kinda like the 2020 defense, when teams realized the way to beat it was just run like crazy.
I don't trust Cam Newton! He's not an accurate thrower, I'm just going to say it, he's the opposite of what I consider a Patriot type QB. He's like the running version of Bledsoe. If a lot more goes right than wrong, they could be legit title contenders if they get good QB play. Teams are going to start this year like they played us last year. Sell out to stop the run and dare us to throw. Unless we can stretch the defense, our offense will not be that good.
I'd pick the under if Newton starts and the over if Mac Jones does.
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 19, 2021 11:04:49 GMT -5
To reiterate what I said a while back about BB using both Cam and Mac at times.
Just thought to myself, Patriots make the playoffs and Cam has been the starter for say 2 months. It would be just like BB to have continued to practice some RPO plays with Cam just in case in a big situation. Big playoff game and at the right moment he sends Cam out to get an important 1st down or score. Opponent is completely caught off guard. It may not be BB like to do it all season but it would certainly be BB like to do it then. He will do anything for an advantage and to throw the opponent off a bit.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2021 11:18:20 GMT -5
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Post by texs31 on Aug 19, 2021 11:40:51 GMT -5
Stealing a bit from Mike Reiss here but:
If you don't like Newton, Checkdown King is a bad thing.
If you do like Newton, he was playing smart football under the circumstances (Red Zone; Zone-based D). He was protecting the ball which, in a real life situation, is what BB is going to want. Jones, meanwhile, SHOULD have checked down in that scenario and, in one case, had the ball picked off (that's points off the board).
Now, to be clear, that's an assessment of the circumstances that led to Wallace's statement. To the extent that it's a pattern in all circumstances . . . not great.
Meanwhile, Curran had a piece today suggesting the QB competition is really more about Mac Jones short-term vs Mac Jones long-term (my short-hand translation). Basically, he suggested that the only thing that should/might keep Jones from being day 1 starter (if that's the direction they go) is any belief that it's better, developmentally, for him to sit a bit more.
Curran pointed out that Mike Lombardi made a similar comment and Tom wondered if that was his opinion or "inside info" (given his son Mick is on the staff).
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 19, 2021 12:24:22 GMT -5
It used to be accepted policy that QB's sat and watched for a season so it would certainly make sense that sitting for a few games would at least be beneficial for Mac getting acclimated to the NFL game speed and nuances.
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Post by texs31 on Aug 19, 2021 12:48:36 GMT -5
It used to be accepted policy that QB's sat and watched for a season so it would certainly make sense that sitting for a few games would at least be beneficial for Mac getting acclimated to the NFL game speed and nuances. The piece all suggested the adverse effect of him starting, struggling to the point of being benched, and then trying to "get him back". Of course, there is alternate theory that you want your QB to be mentally tougher than that and able to handle adversity. Also, I think it was Phil Perry (read a bunch of Pats pieces and am struggling to keep them straight) who wondered if you spend on Agholor, Henry and Smith if you really want to go with a QB who cant take full advantage of their field stretching abilities. On the other side, I'm not sure anyone has said/written this yet, but I wonder if BB wanting to prove he was "right" (about Newton) will factor into the decision. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 19, 2021 13:00:55 GMT -5
I'd point out it was after two practices and the bigger issue is that is exactly what Cam did last year. It's why his completion percentage looks much higher than it should. The RedZone really gives you an idea how good a QB is. Everyone is bunched together, small windows, etc. Can was horrible throwing in that area last year. You won't get many TDs doing check downs in the red zone, too many defenders close together. You need to throw that ball into the endzone.
I certainly prefer Mac Jones making mistakes in camp, yet learning what he has to do. Compared to Cam playing it safe because he doesn't have the football IQ and accuracy to throw in the red zone. Rookie QBs are going to throw a bunch of interceptions. The good ones learn from them, the bad ones get destroyed.
I'm a firm believer that rookie QBs should sit, I'd prefer a full year. That just gives them the best chance overall. Yet Mac Jones is supposedly already well versed in many things young QBs needs to learn and is said to be a crazy high football IQ guy. He's not Stidham that didn't play in an NFL style offense and he's spent two years in a crazy high pressure environment. I don't feel Mac Jones can learn anything from Cam Newton about football IQ. If anything it could hurt him studying Newtons style. Yet the biggest thing is that they both require a different offense. Going to be certainly less than ideal, to scrap the offense say in week 8 and now work on a new one. That makes away Bills ability to build up the team to keep getting better. Nevermind you run the same risk as last year , when Bill will just say Newton with his experience gives you the best chance. Which is likely true, Mac Jones likely struggles before he's good. Just look at Payton Mannings rookie year and even Brady's first stretch of games after sitting a year.
So I'm going against my own rule because Bill just had to bring back Cam Newton versus better options based on fit. I want Mac Jones starting week one. Yet I'd certainly settle for a two QB system like you see in College. If an NFL coach could pull that off, it's Bill. In theory, talk about messing with a defense. Having to prepare for two QBs that play completely different. Get the players experience with Mac Jones from week one. We have the right combo, the athletic running QB and the pure pocket passer. I just feel we need to go extreme given what we saw from Newton last year. If you wanted him to start he needed a Jones type WR that can run down and catch his inaccurate passes. The weapons on this team are built for a Brady style passing attack. In a perfect world Newtons shoulder was his issue last year and he's much better. I just won't believe it till I see him do it. I frankly just don't think that's his game.
One big positive in my book is that Asiasi is getting a ton of work as a starter. I still believe in his upside and it would certainly be nice if he's ready to breakout.
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