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Chaim Bloom and the Red Sox Rebuild
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 5, 2021 16:32:36 GMT -5
Revisiting Chaim BloomâÂÂs recent moves 1 month into the season: ⢠Hembree and Workman for Pivetta and Seabold - A+. No explanation needed. A+ At worst, Pivetta was going to be another Hembree. At best he could get his act together and turn into a mid-rotation starter. Seabold looked like an almost-certain back of the rotation starter. (Now he looks better but that was after the fact). Workman was a FA and there was no way we were going to give him a QO. Nice job! ⢠Pillar for Wallace - B+. B. Pillar is a good 4th OFer. His glove is not quite good enough for CF anymore and his bat isn't quite what you want for RF. He performed about as well as you could have hoped for last year. But he was about to become a FA too. Wallace is a college reliever with some upside potential. But he is not a top prospect either. If we really wanted Pillar back, we could have resigned him this off-season. B for the trade and A for the entire Pillar set of transactions (ignoring his political views) ⢠Moreland for Potts and Rosario - B+. C- each of Potts and Rosario has a big hole in their game. SD was loaded with prospects and we got two 20ish guys. I thought Moreland would be worth more. Disappointing. ⢠Springs and Mata for Hernandez - A. A Springs is a waiver wire type pickup. Mazza is a bit better. Hernandez is an actual prospect. ⢠Kiké Hernandez - C. C- I don't get this signing. Even if he were to hit 300/350/450 this year I still would not get it. He's a 2b/CF who can't hit RHers. If we are really tight on $ should we really be signing him to a 2 year deal at $7MM per year? This seems like a luxury to have not a building block. His performance this year doesn't really affect my opinion. He has seven or so years of semi-regular play. We knew his strengths and weaknesses when we signed him. ⢠Matt Andriese - A+. B-. He's fine for a swing guy. He's cheap. Nothing special. ⢠Garrett Richards - B+. Ok I will disagree. C- If you are willing to pay $10MM for a guys who has not pitched more than 76 innings since 2015 why not make an aggressive offer for Kluber. (I know there was something about his not wanting to sign a long-term contract, and his trainer, but $$$ talks) ⢠Garrett Whitlock - A+. No explanation needed. A There were a bunch of good looking Rule 5 pickups this year and the Sox were, for once, in great draft position. Whitlock was in that group of good prospects and he has performed even better than expected. A at the time we drafted him. ⢠Benny trade - C- for now. Incomplete. C+ not sure what everyone was expecting here. We did not pay him much and got some option years. He doesn't hit RHers but he is very good against LHers. His defense seems pretty good. As a 4th OFer he's fine maybe a bit pricey. Not as a starter though. ⢠Marwin Gonzalez - D. C as a utility guy he's fine maybe a bit pricey. As a starter he's not so good. His numbers this year are pretty much exactly in line with last year. ⢠Adam Ottovino - B+. B- I get that we needed a late inning option and that we also got a prospect with him. But the prospect we got was not that great (maybe the Sox have a different evaluation of him) It seems like for the $ we spent on Ottovino we could have gotten a better late inning option. But not bad either. C he's fine I guess. Maybe a bit expensive. Could Mazza do the same for less... probably. I would prefer to save the back of the rotation for guys newly up from the minors. Just to run through the gauntlet here a bit. 1. Agreed on Pivetta AND Seabold for Hembree and Workman. Hembree is on Cincinnati right now. Workman has a 6.75 ERA for the Cubs. Even if Pivetta gave you 1 meaningful game in 2021 this was a win. The fact that Pivetta has a 3.23 ERA with a 3.34 FIP, that's just a grand slam of a trade. This is before we even see Seabold. 2. Pillar for Wallace. I know nothing of Wallace so won't pretend. Got a prospect for a 4OF with only a half season left. 3. Same deal for Moreland for Potts and Rosario. SD is deep so maybe we get something, but he was 34 and after being traded had a .609 OPS. Not overly concerned. I'll take some lottery tickets. 4. Kiké Hernández now sports a 0.6 WAR despite a .711 OPS. He shouldn't be leading off, but that's an Alex Cora complaint. He gives roster flexibility for cheap dollars. He has played 2B, CF, and 2.0 IP of SS this year. He can move around a bit. He is a place holder for hopefully Duran and Jeter Downs. I like him as a super utility guy. 5. Matt Andriese is great for what he is. A journeyman RP. His ERA is 3.14 and his FIP is 3.11. He's been good, but I hope they don't buy into him. 6. Garrett Richards I like taking low cost, gambles like Richards. He was great years ago, but has been riddled with injuries since. He has since been atrocious, but the last 2 starts have been VERY promising. He's 33 so there's a chance he can recover his career for a few years. I admit I LOVED Corey Kluber and was disappointed they got Richards over Kluber, but it is what it is and Kluber supposedly wanted to go to NY. Unfortunately, Kluber has been pretty good for NY. Let's see if Richards continues to improve and if Kluber's ERA at least starts to reflect his FIP. Still, maybe we should divorce these two if Kluber wanted to go to NY. 7. Springs and Mazza for Ronaldo Hernández? It's a win just getting those 2 off the Red Sox let alone getting a former highly regarded catching prospect? Either the Rays know something or this is going to be an organizational embarrassment. I don't care if they have better catching prospects ahead of him, get better value. 8. Garrett Whitlock - Disappointed his ERA is up to 0.63. I guess we'll just have to live with it. 9. Andrew Benintendi - .278/.352/.412/.764 he's hot. Great for him, bad for the Sox. Franchy is awful, but the PTBNL will determine the deal. The almost .800 OPS isn't enough to cry about, but he's been good and Franchy is bad. It looked like a win that's quickly turning into a loss. 10. Refroe has been disappointing, but there seems to be a light at the end of this tunnel. 11. Marwin, same as Kiké 12. Ottavino - Been as good as expected. 13. Perez - Great for a 5, but also won't mind when he's gone. Still a good pickup.
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Post by blizzards39 on Jul 12, 2021 23:37:29 GMT -5
Chaim is moving on up. Draft seems awesome. Not sure if it was anything to do with posturing or straight out luck. Either way, good job. Looks like In his less than 2 years has taken the farm system from one of the worst to better than average and in the meantime has one of the best records in baseball.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jul 13, 2021 4:46:11 GMT -5
Chaim is moving on up. Draft seems awesome. Not sure if it was anything to do with posturing or straight out luck. Either way, good job. Looks like In his less than 2 years has taken the farm system from one of the worst to better than average and in the meantime has one of the best records in baseball. Completely agreed. The best thing Chaim did was punting the lost COVID season into the literal best player in the draft and another (IMO) top 20-25 draft talent.
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Post by bosoxnation on Jul 13, 2021 6:25:15 GMT -5
The Mookie deal is also looking better each and every day. Verdugo is turning into my favorite player with Downs still in the minors. We also saved a ton of money by shipping him out and resigned our All Star Closer for under 8 mill a year. Also the trading Bennintendi for Franchy ,who needs to get called back up asap and signing Renfroe for 3 million are the small moves that blow my mind. Benny was not only our only OF left from the WS he was also the prospect we preferred to keep over Moncada in the Sale deal. After losing Mookie and having a horrible season he still pulled the trigger. I’m blown away by the moves this man makes and they all have worked. Some no risk high rewards guys but i’m ready to sign him to a 10 year deal. I sleep amazing knowing Bloom is in charge. Revamped our farm system in 2 years while making no big signings and going from 4th overall pick to best team in the AL at the All Star break. I will never question a move he’s makes again.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2021 6:36:33 GMT -5
The Mookie deal is also looking better each and every day. Verdugo is turning into my favorite player with Downs still in the minors. We also saved a ton of money by shipping him out and resigned our All Star Closer for under 8 mill a year. Also the trading Bennintendi for Franchy ,who needs to get called back up asap and signing Renfroe for 3 million are the small moves that blow my mind. Benny was not only our only OF left from the WS he was also the prospect we preferred to keep over Moncada in the Sale deal. After losing Mookie and having a horrible season he still pulled the trigger. I’m blown away by the moves this man makes and they all have worked. Some no risk high rewards guys but i’m ready to sign him to a 10 year deal. I sleep amazing knowing Bloom is in charge. Revamped our farm system in 2 years while making no big signings and going from 4th overall pick to best team in the AL at the All Star break. I will never question a move he’s makes again. Keeping Beni over Moncada likely netted them a WS so it was the correct move.
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Post by threeifbaerga on Jul 13, 2021 7:16:32 GMT -5
Chaim is moving on up. Draft seems awesome. Not sure if it was anything to do with posturing or straight out luck. Either way, good job. Looks like In his less than 2 years has taken the farm system from one of the worst to better than average and in the meantime has one of the best records in baseball. Completely agreed. The best thing Chaim did was punting the lost COVID season into the literal best player in the draft and another (IMO) top 20-25 draft talent. They really did luck out with regards to the timing of the COVID shortened season. By the end of last year they were really rounding out of being the worst team in the game and if it had continued another month or two there's no way the Sox end up picking 4th in either draft. If there was ever a season to suck, it was last season.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 13, 2021 7:26:26 GMT -5
So far so good with Bloom. I can't think of a whole lot he's done that I disagree with and certainly nothing major. I still have to say incomplete in terms of a grade though. Outside of the mookie deal that he basically had to make he hasn't really made any large moves. He's proven he can upgrade around the margins and build depth which is important as we've seen. However this team is still mostly players he inherited and certainly the stars of the team are all inherited. I'll reserve judgment until he has to start making the tough decisions i.e. the contract decisions with Xander, rafi and JD. Does he try to make a splash and sign a guy like scherzer this offseason? I guess I just want to see how he uses the financial might of the Red sox because we really haven't seen that yet.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 13, 2021 8:36:56 GMT -5
So far so good with Bloom. I can't think of a whole lot he's done that I disagree with and certainly nothing major. I still have to say incomplete in terms of a grade though. Outside of the mookie deal that he basically had to make he hasn't really made any large moves. He's proven he can upgrade around the margins and build depth which is important as we've seen. However this team is still mostly players he inherited and certainly the stars of the team are all inherited. I'll reserve judgment until he has to start making the tough decisions i.e. the contract decisions with Xander, rafi and JD. Does he try to make a splash and sign a guy like scherzer this offseason? I guess I just want to see how he uses the financial might of the Red sox because we really haven't seen that yet. I really am interested to see his team building philosophy when he has full financial control. Is there a place for a $20M DH? Can the team successfully carry two or three ~$30M contracts? How do you fill out the middle of the rotation? Will it be worth it to extend two home grown superstars who have potentially shaky defensive profiles as they age?
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Post by mantush on Jul 13, 2021 8:51:28 GMT -5
The Mookie deal is also looking better each and every day. Verdugo is turning into my favorite player with Downs still in the minors. We also saved a ton of money by shipping him out and resigned our All Star Closer for under 8 mill a year. Also the trading Bennintendi for Franchy ,who needs to get called back up asap and signing Renfroe for 3 million are the small moves that blow my mind. Benny was not only our only OF left from the WS he was also the prospect we preferred to keep over Moncada in the Sale deal. After losing Mookie and having a horrible season he still pulled the trigger. I’m blown away by the moves this man makes and they all have worked. Some no risk high rewards guys but i’m ready to sign him to a 10 year deal. I sleep amazing knowing Bloom is in charge. Revamped our farm system in 2 years while making no big signings and going from 4th overall pick to best team in the AL at the All Star break. I will never question a move he’s makes again. Keeping Beni over Moncada likely netted them a WS so it was the correct move. Wasn’t it Devers the White Sox wanted more than Moncada?
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2021 8:57:21 GMT -5
Keeping Beni over Moncada likely netted them a WS so it was the correct move. Wasn’t it Devers the White Sox wanted more than Moncada? I’m fairly certain Devers was a nonstarter from the get go.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 13, 2021 9:10:29 GMT -5
Keeping Beni over Moncada likely netted them a WS so it was the correct move. Wasn’t it Devers the White Sox wanted more than Moncada? I think they wanted Devers in addition to Moncada and Kopech. For once DD said no, and that's where we added Basabe and Victor Diaz.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2021 14:25:18 GMT -5
Wasn’t it Devers the White Sox wanted more than Moncada? I think they wanted Devers in addition to Moncada and Kopech. For once DD said no, and that's where we added Basabe and Victor Diaz. This, although that wasn't entirely clear until Alex's book I don't think. They also refused to include a pitcher who was never named but was very clearly Bryan Mata based on the description (it was either him or one other guy, based on the description, whose name escapes me but they wouldn't have been reticent to include).
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Post by incandenza on Jul 13, 2021 15:03:08 GMT -5
So the total haul from the team sucking horribly in 2020 has turned out to be:
Jacob Wallace Hudson Potts Jeisson Rosario Connor Seabold Nick Pivetta Garrett Whitlock Marcelo Mayer
Am I missing anybody?
(I know they would've drafted differently if they picked, say, #20, so you can't exactly just place Mayer on top of the list like this. But then again, maybe they would've just taken Fabian late in the first round. Or they would have taken someone else and Fabian would have been gone by #56 or whatever...)
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2021 15:10:06 GMT -5
So the total haul from the team sucking horribly in 2020 has turned out to be:
Jacob Wallace Hudson Potts Jeisson Rosario Connor Seabold Nick Pivetta Garrett Whitlock Marcelo Mayer
Am I missing anybody?
(I know they would've drafted differently if they picked, say, #20, so you can't exactly just place Mayer on top of the list like this. But then again, maybe they would've just taken Fabian late in the first round. Or they would have taken someone else and Fabian would have been gone by #56 or whatever...)
I understand why you are including Whitlock but it seems like a stretch.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 13, 2021 15:11:58 GMT -5
So the total haul from the team sucking horribly in 2020 has turned out to be:
Jacob Wallace Hudson Potts Jeisson Rosario Connor Seabold Nick Pivetta Garrett Whitlock Marcelo Mayer
Am I missing anybody?
(I know they would've drafted differently if they picked, say, #20, so you can't exactly just place Mayer on top of the list like this. But then again, maybe they would've just taken Fabian late in the first round. Or they would have taken someone else and Fabian would have been gone by #56 or whatever...)
I understand why you are including Whitlock but it seems like a stretch. How so? I think Whitlock is arguably the most direct haul. If they win 3 more games he's probably off the board in the rule 5.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 13, 2021 15:19:43 GMT -5
I understand why you are including Whitlock but it seems like a stretch. How so? I think Whitlock is arguably the most direct haul. If they win 3 more games he's probably off the board in the rule 5. Yeah, that's my thinking. At 27 wins they'd still have been bad enough to sell off Workman, Moreland, etc.; they would've had pick #12 in the draft, so still could have gotten a good talent like Watson or whomever; but in the Rule 5 they'd have gotten nothing of value at all.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2021 15:23:24 GMT -5
So the total haul from the team sucking horribly in 2020 has turned out to be: Jacob Wallace Hudson Potts Jeisson Rosario Connor Seabold Nick Pivetta Garrett Whitlock Marcelo Mayer Am I missing anybody? (I know they would've drafted differently if they picked, say, #20, so you can't exactly just place Mayer on top of the list like this. But then again, maybe they would've just taken Fabian late in the first round. Or they would have taken someone else and Fabian would have been gone by #56 or whatever...)
Zach Bryant, which... whatev. For completeness' sake, you could also say they were lower in the waiver order and were more able to claim guys off waivers. It's not a list of guys who helped much or are likely to help much (Grullon, Payamps, Schreiber, Triggs, Gonsalves, Stock), but does include Christian Arroyo, which is a big'un.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jul 13, 2021 18:54:10 GMT -5
I understand why you are including Whitlock but it seems like a stretch. How so? I think Whitlock is arguably the most direct haul. If they win 3 more games he's probably off the board in the rule 5. So we are going from, the Yankees thought they could sneak him thru to everyone would have taken him?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 13, 2021 19:47:34 GMT -5
How so? I think Whitlock is arguably the most direct haul. If they win 3 more games he's probably off the board in the rule 5. So we are going from, the Yankees thought they could sneak him thru to everyone would have taken him? Whitlock was ranked as one of the top players available. It's not revisionist history to say he was almost certainly getting picked. He was the first player discussed in BA's preview: www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-mlb-rule-5-draft-preview/
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Post by mantush on Jul 13, 2021 20:18:01 GMT -5
I think they wanted Devers in addition to Moncada and Kopech. For once DD said no, and that's where we added Basabe and Victor Diaz. This, although that wasn't entirely clear until Alex's book I don't think. They also refused to include a pitcher who was never named but was very clearly Bryan Mata based on the description (it was either him or one other guy, based on the description, whose name escapes me but they wouldn't have been reticent to include). Thank you both for clarifying! I listened to Alex's book at 1.5x speed during a long drive, so I wasn't entirely sure. Unrelated note - are there any books like Homegrown you would also recommend?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 14, 2021 11:15:16 GMT -5
This, although that wasn't entirely clear until Alex's book I don't think. They also refused to include a pitcher who was never named but was very clearly Bryan Mata based on the description (it was either him or one other guy, based on the description, whose name escapes me but they wouldn't have been reticent to include). Thank you both for clarifying! I listened to Alex's book at 1.5x speed during a long drive, so I wasn't entirely sure. Unrelated note - are there any books like Homegrown you would also recommend? In relatively recent Red Sox history, Feeding the Monster covers the Theo era.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 14, 2021 12:12:43 GMT -5
Thank you both for clarifying! I listened to Alex's book at 1.5x speed during a long drive, so I wasn't entirely sure. Unrelated note - are there any books like Homegrown you would also recommend? In relatively recent Red Sox history, Feeding the Monster covers the Theo era. Good book. Another covering the front office and team from an older era would be "Beyond the Sixth Game" by Peter Gammons which covers the Sox from Game 6 1975 into a new thing called free agency until about 1984 when the Buddy Leroux vs Haywood Sullivan/Jean Yawkey war was settled. Excellent book and perhaps forerunner of Seth Mnookin's book. Makes me really thankful for John Henry. Theo, Chaim, etc.
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Post by joshuacoffee on Jul 18, 2021 6:49:13 GMT -5
Any early thoughts on the 2022 First Baseman for the Redsox? Past what will be a 32 year old Freddie Freeman, there's no one that even remotely excites me coming up on free agency. I know that Casas is coming, but probably not at all next year, and certainly not at the start of the season. Talk me into being excited about one of these guys (or someone else).
Freddie Freeman (probably two truckloads of cash and too many years) Brandon Belt Anthony Rizzo Mitch Moreland Travis Shaw Jake Lamb C.J. Cron Ryan Zimmerman Matt Adams Greg Bird Justin Bour (list from Spotrac.com)
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 18, 2021 8:41:17 GMT -5
Any early thoughts on the 2022 First Baseman for the Redsox? Past what will be a 32 year old Freddie Freeman, there's no one that even remotely excites me coming up on free agency. I know that Casas is coming, but probably not at all next year, and certainly not at the start of the season. Talk me into being excited about one of these guys (or someone else). Freddie Freeman (probably two truckloads of cash and too many years) Brandon Belt Anthony Rizzo Mitch Moreland Travis Shaw Jake Lamb C.J. Cron Ryan Zimmerman Matt Adams Greg Bird Justin Bour (list from Spotrac.com) Arroyo and Franchy
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Post by fanofredsox on Jul 18, 2021 9:03:41 GMT -5
Any early thoughts on the 2022 First Baseman for the Redsox? Past what will be a 32 year old Freddie Freeman, there's no one that even remotely excites me coming up on free agency. I know that Casas is coming, but probably not at all next year, and certainly not at the start of the season. Talk me into being excited about one of these guys (or someone else). Freddie Freeman (probably two truckloads of cash and too many years) Brandon Belt Anthony Rizzo Mitch Moreland Travis Shaw Jake Lamb C.J. Cron Ryan Zimmerman Matt Adams Greg Bird Justin Bour (list from Spotrac.com) Arroyo and Franchy Kris Bryant
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