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5/4-5/6 Red Sox vs. Tigers Series Thread
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Post by julyanmorley on May 6, 2021 14:57:15 GMT -5
Don't think I need to see anybody slugging .300 swinging at a 3-0 pitch at the edge of the strike zone again
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Post by dyoungteach on May 6, 2021 14:57:34 GMT -5
They were a below .500 team when he left. On his watch the team dropped to below .500. With tigers team dropped to one of worst in mlb. With Red Sox team dropped to one of worst in mlb. His mo. He goes all on. Wins. Then is forced to strip down and build ALL the way back up using minor leaguers and including the minor league system. He traded for many in Miami. Are you saying he will have a sustainable team in Philadelphia? Anyways he’s gone and I’m for one happy. I like the gm that protects the team for 10 years and not just 1-2. Why is it his fault that Huizenga ordered to strip down the 97 Marlins after they won? I didn't say he will have a sustainable team in Philly. I never discussed Philly or paid much attention to his current situation. I'm pushing back against your statement that he left franchises in shambles. He did NOT leave the Marlins or Expos in shambles. And as far as a GM who protects a team for 10 years....well how do you feel about the time period of 2006 - 2014 for the Tigers? That's a 9 year stretch where they were the class of the AL Central. That's not a 1 - 2 year thing. That's almost a decade. Dombrowski certainly has his weaknesses and his all in approach can wreak havoc a bit, but he's usually made up for it by displaying good judgment of which prospects to part with and which ones to keep (and yes Randy Johnson and Eugenio Suarez are his two worst players who got away). As much as the Sox are mediocre now, if you told me they'd have a bunch of 90 win seasons where they didn't win versus the 2018 season (on the heels of the 2016 and 2017 division titles) where they dominated the league and won the Series, I'd take the latter. It's true. Flags really do fly forever. You can get caught up in the inertia of now, now, now, but 2018 is a memory I'll always have and be thankful for. Note that while I think he's been a good GM, I'm fine with him being replaced. But the fact of the matter is that Bloom can do everything right, have them win 90 games for a 10 year stretch and still come up empty where it matters the most - or basically be the Yankees of this past decade. If that happens, we'll appreciate what a good GM he was but have no memories to savor of the ultimate victory. Don't know how far back your fandom stretches, but mine goes well into last century. As the 1986 World Series painfully reminded me, franchises can go decades (or in the Cubs' case, even centuries) before they win, so what Dombrowski was able to contribute to in 2018 was special. He had a great core from Theo and Cherington and supplemented it well enough to create the Red Sox team that was the most successful in their history (with the possible exception of the 1912 and 1915 squads). That is not nothing. I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 14:58:34 GMT -5
Marwin shaking his hand, Kiké out, X pounding a ball into his leg... this game has me really worried about what happens if the Sox get the injury bug.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:00:26 GMT -5
Here comes Bobby Line Out.
*Bobby Fly Out.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 15:01:14 GMT -5
Why is it his fault that Huizenga ordered to strip down the 97 Marlins after they won? I didn't say he will have a sustainable team in Philly. I never discussed Philly or paid much attention to his current situation. I'm pushing back against your statement that he left franchises in shambles. He did NOT leave the Marlins or Expos in shambles. And as far as a GM who protects a team for 10 years....well how do you feel about the time period of 2006 - 2014 for the Tigers? That's a 9 year stretch where they were the class of the AL Central. That's not a 1 - 2 year thing. That's almost a decade. Dombrowski certainly has his weaknesses and his all in approach can wreak havoc a bit, but he's usually made up for it by displaying good judgment of which prospects to part with and which ones to keep (and yes Randy Johnson and Eugenio Suarez are his two worst players who got away). As much as the Sox are mediocre now, if you told me they'd have a bunch of 90 win seasons where they didn't win versus the 2018 season (on the heels of the 2016 and 2017 division titles) where they dominated the league and won the Series, I'd take the latter. It's true. Flags really do fly forever. You can get caught up in the inertia of now, now, now, but 2018 is a memory I'll always have and be thankful for. Note that while I think he's been a good GM, I'm fine with him being replaced. But the fact of the matter is that Bloom can do everything right, have them win 90 games for a 10 year stretch and still come up empty where it matters the most - or basically be the Yankees of this past decade. If that happens, we'll appreciate what a good GM he was but have no memories to savor of the ultimate victory. Don't know how far back your fandom stretches, but mine goes well into last century. As the 1986 World Series painfully reminded me, franchises can go decades (or in the Cubs' case, even centuries) before they win, so what Dombrowski was able to contribute to in 2018 was special. He had a great core from Theo and Cherington and supplemented it well enough to create the Red Sox team that was the most successful in their history (with the possible exception of the 1912 and 1915 squads). That is not nothing. I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now. Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed!
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Post by wildsox on May 6, 2021 15:01:20 GMT -5
Lol everytime Bobby comes up it’s a chance to really cash in lately
Same result everytime
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Post by Guidas on May 6, 2021 15:04:55 GMT -5
Ugh - men on 2nd and 3rd with no outs and they can't plate either. They could've really given themselves some breathing room.
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Post by Jimmy on May 6, 2021 15:05:32 GMT -5
Has anyone gotten the scoop on what Valdez’s deal is? Pretty sure he warmed up so he’s not hurt. Makes no sense to me. He’s not in my circle of trust but cmon, gotta use him He’s not in the circle of trust but he’s certainly in the circle of people not named Josh Taylor, and Taylor has been used plenty
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 6, 2021 15:06:55 GMT -5
Why is it his fault that Huizenga ordered to strip down the 97 Marlins after they won? I didn't say he will have a sustainable team in Philly. I never discussed Philly or paid much attention to his current situation. I'm pushing back against your statement that he left franchises in shambles. He did NOT leave the Marlins or Expos in shambles. And as far as a GM who protects a team for 10 years....well how do you feel about the time period of 2006 - 2014 for the Tigers? That's a 9 year stretch where they were the class of the AL Central. That's not a 1 - 2 year thing. That's almost a decade. Dombrowski certainly has his weaknesses and his all in approach can wreak havoc a bit, but he's usually made up for it by displaying good judgment of which prospects to part with and which ones to keep (and yes Randy Johnson and Eugenio Suarez are his two worst players who got away). As much as the Sox are mediocre now, if you told me they'd have a bunch of 90 win seasons where they didn't win versus the 2018 season (on the heels of the 2016 and 2017 division titles) where they dominated the league and won the Series, I'd take the latter. It's true. Flags really do fly forever. You can get caught up in the inertia of now, now, now, but 2018 is a memory I'll always have and be thankful for. Note that while I think he's been a good GM, I'm fine with him being replaced. But the fact of the matter is that Bloom can do everything right, have them win 90 games for a 10 year stretch and still come up empty where it matters the most - or basically be the Yankees of this past decade. If that happens, we'll appreciate what a good GM he was but have no memories to savor of the ultimate victory. Don't know how far back your fandom stretches, but mine goes well into last century. As the 1986 World Series painfully reminded me, franchises can go decades (or in the Cubs' case, even centuries) before they win, so what Dombrowski was able to contribute to in 2018 was special. He had a great core from Theo and Cherington and supplemented it well enough to create the Red Sox team that was the most successful in their history (with the possible exception of the 1912 and 1915 squads). That is not nothing. I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now. He didn't leave the Marlins in shambles. He left them with a young and improving core than won the World Series 2 years later, a core he built. That said, it's crazy, I'm smack dab in the middle of you and Manfred. You the Dombrowski basher and Bloom lover, and Manfred, the Dombrowski worshipper and Bloom hater. It doesn't have to be Dombrowski OR Bloom. I can appreciate the strengths of both GMs. The Sox maxed out their talent under Dombrowski and gave me a season I'll never forget. Like you said other teams can win a flag and be great for a decade (again the facts are that the Tigers were the class of the ALC for almost a decade) and I'm hoping Bloom does that. Dombrowski tried to squeeze out one more year of the core and it didn't work so he paid for it with his job. Ownership did not want to go past the luxury tax threshold to keep it going, which is their perogative, so the call to Bloom makes a lot of sense, and I'm good with what he's trying to do. He's saying we'll see if we can compete now but the team that's truly mine will be built to be great over a long stretch but it sounds like he's not going to sell out one year for another, which can harm a team from winning it all, but can give them more chances to win. We'll see if he succeeds. Theo tried to do that, but even when he went to the Cubs he had his moment of "Let's seize the day" with his infamous Gleyber Torres for Aroldis Chapman deal. We'll see how Bloom does wind up handling that when he's in that situation. I'm willing to give him awhile to set this up. I can have 3 - 4 years of so-so if that means they can be truly strong for a decade. But I don't have to bash Dombrowski to lift up Bloom or vice versa. They both have approaches that can work. It just depends where you are. If they were pitchers, Bloom would be a starting pitcher and Dombrowski would be the closer. Both play important roles on a championship team.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 6, 2021 15:07:20 GMT -5
I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now. Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed! Still waiting for your ideas.... oh wait all you have is complaints. Yes and he did it within construct of a sustainable salary and supplementing young players along the way! I never said everything needs to be through our farm system. But I’m just gonna keep asking.... rather than complaining. What are your ideas? Still waiting
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:08:24 GMT -5
I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now. Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed! 2007: Clay Buchholz Manny Delcarmen Jon Lester Jonathan Papelbon Jason Varitek a major rip off trade Curt Schilling - Trade (I would count trades since your farm helped to get said players) Kevin Youkilis Dustin Pedroia Mike Lowell - Trade Josh Beckett - Trade Jacoby Ellsbury Brandon Moss David Murphy That's a lot of home grown talent or talent acquired from home grown talent.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 6, 2021 15:09:11 GMT -5
I never said he left expos is shambles. Quite honestly because they were not built up yet. As for the World Series team..... it can be built different and still enjoy the World Series. Theo did it. Dodgers have done it. Many teams have flown a flag. I’ll never agree that he doesn’t leave the team he leaves in shambles. And no matter what you say you can’t change fact that Marlins after him were bad, tigers were horrendous, and Red Sox. Well yikes last year. Further I don’t trust that he can build a team from scratch without using an owners pocketbook to a massive extent. If that’s besides the point. You can take your dom. I’ll grab Theo or Yankees gm. Or what bloom is doing now. Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed! Huh? Manny was signed by Dan Duquette. David Ortiz was a bargain basement pickup by Theo. Damon was signed by Duquette. Pedro was acquired in a deal by Duquette as was Lowe. And Foulke was a Theo free agent pickup. I think you're point was that the team was expensive. So yes, that's true although they were no match for the Yankees at that point who had a humungous payroll.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:10:24 GMT -5
Win or lose, Alex Cora needs to have a closed door meeting with his team.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 6, 2021 15:11:53 GMT -5
Win or lose, Alex Cora needs to have a closed door meeting with his team. Yeah, this is fugly. I don't think it's going to end well.
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Post by wildsox on May 6, 2021 15:12:15 GMT -5
Just terrible baseball since the Texas series. Totally incapable of holding leads in the field and on the mound
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:13:49 GMT -5
Win or lose, Alex Cora needs to have a closed door meeting with his team. Yeah, this is fugly. I don't think it's going to end well. It feels like since they beat DeGrom 1-0 that this team has acted like they're better than what they are.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:16:13 GMT -5
Franchy might have just saved himself from a demotion, at least for an extra couple of days. Hopefully he's warming up.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 15:16:27 GMT -5
Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed! Huh? Manny was signed by Dan Duquette. David Ortiz was a bargain basement pickup by Theo. Damon was signed by Duquette. Pedro was acquired in a deal by Duquette as was Lowe. And Foulke was a Theo free agent pickup. I think you're point was that the team was expensive. So yes, that's true although they were no match for the Yankees at that point who had a humungous payroll. Yeah my point was they had, literally, no homegrown starters, unless you count Youk or Trot, who played part time. I don’t *care* by the way. But the idea that Theo was playing some kind of small market games is kinda revisionist. This was a pricey team. And I am *definitely* not saying he didn’t have some great moves. But wasn’t the Pedro trade a parallel to Sale? Manny signing like JDM? etc.
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Post by incandenza on May 6, 2021 15:17:16 GMT -5
I wonder if thinking he wasn't going to play today might have helped Franchy. Maybe he didn't have time to get his thoughts all wound up or something?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 6, 2021 15:18:00 GMT -5
Yeah, this is fugly. I don't think it's going to end well. It feels like since they beat DeGrom 1-0 that this team has acted like they're better than what they are. Honestly, I was more impressed with that two game series in New York than the 9 game winning streak. Those were really impressive wins. Since then, something is off. But I can't tell if it's just a case of a .500ish team playing like a .500ish team or if they're underachieving. I'm starting to think it's the former. I mean, I didn't pick this team to win in the upper 80s or 90s. I had them around .500. It's just with this team I can see what those who picked them to win 85 plus with an outside shot at the division were thinking and I don't think they're crazy at all, but I can also see why I was hesitant to treat them like more than a .500ish team, and I think that's a reasonable take, too. The gap of what this team could be from its worst to best is kind of wider than normal.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 15:18:36 GMT -5
Theo? You mean the guy who drafted Manny, Papi, Damon, schilling, Pedro, Wakefield, and Lowe and Foulke to win the Sox first WS? No checkbook needed! Still waiting for your ideas.... oh wait all you have is complaints. Yes and he did it within construct of a sustainable salary and supplementing young players along the way! I never said everything needs to be through our farm system. But I’m just gonna keep asking.... rather than complaining. What are your ideas? Still waiting C’mon. We all spent the winter going over this. You can go back and see what I wrote then.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 6, 2021 15:19:38 GMT -5
Come on brothers !! Nut Up !! This is baseball and our boys got this.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 6, 2021 15:22:49 GMT -5
It feels like since they beat DeGrom 1-0 that this team has acted like they're better than what they are. Honestly, I was more impressed with that two game series in New York than the 9 game winning streak. Those were really impressive wins. Since then, something is off. But I can't tell if it's just a case of a .500ish team playing like a .500ish team or if they're underachieving. I'm starting to think it's the former. I mean, I didn't pick this team to win in the upper 80s or 90s. I had them around .500. It's just with this team I can see what those who picked them to win 85 plus with an outside shot at the division were thinking and I don't think they're crazy at all, but I can also see why I was hesitant to treat them like more than a .500ish team, and I think that's a reasonable take, too. The gap of what this team could be from its worst to best is kind of wider than normal. That 9 win streak elevated expectations I think. The two wins against the Mets, mainly DeGrom vs Pivetta was evidence they are better than .500. It's just that they have been playing like dog poop ever since and I wonder if they're just not preparing for the Rangers and Tigers?
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Post by dyoungteach on May 6, 2021 15:23:16 GMT -5
Still waiting for your ideas.... oh wait all you have is complaints. Yes and he did it within construct of a sustainable salary and supplementing young players along the way! I never said everything needs to be through our farm system. But I’m just gonna keep asking.... rather than complaining. What are your ideas? Still waiting C’mon. We all spent the winter going over this. You can go back and see what I wrote then. Gotcha. Well show me where those are and I will.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on May 6, 2021 15:23:32 GMT -5
I just noticed: Hunter Renfroe has 13 LOBs the last two games. In two days separated by one run.... that is rough.
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