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Celtics 2021 Offseason
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 23, 2021 15:16:09 GMT -5
I think I like this move, only time will tell but the C's are moving quickly and I like it. Not surprised given the Pop experience but also the time with the C's during international play. Is Smart the next shoe to drop? Can Smart change his colors?
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2021 15:20:03 GMT -5
Listening to Forsberg/King. Some of the ideas they have:
- Give Marcus a shot to be full-time PG (they actually think Tatum is the de facto guy - "Sun of the C's solar system" but that's not a real position) and create a very good defensive lineup. - Want another PG "in between" Marcus and Pritchard. Names like Delon Wright, Tomas Satoransky, Justise Winslow - Want another PF. King is big on Kyle Anderson. Includes Larry Nance Jr. as a name often associated. - Basically want a big team (assuming they mean in big in the Modern Basketball sense) that has defensive versatility.
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 23, 2021 15:30:22 GMT -5
You never know how any new hire will pan out, but this is a very good hire.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2021 15:41:27 GMT -5
I think I like this move, only time will tell but the C's are moving quickly and I like it. Not surprised given the Pop experience but also the time with the C's during international play. Is Smart the next shoe to drop? Can Smart change his colors? Was on the Philly bench so has time with Al as well.
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jun 23, 2021 16:22:40 GMT -5
Defensively versatile team with Tatum and Brown as the dudes, Smart more of a facilitator, and a much better coach than Brad in terms of both 1) Xs and Os and 2) relating to and motivating the players? Sign me up.
Absolutely love the Udoka hire.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 23, 2021 18:05:23 GMT -5
- Want another PG "in between" Marcus and Pritchard. Names like Delon Wright, Tomas Satoransky, Justise Winslow Satoransky or Wright are doable? That would be awesome. Both are big guys, Satoransky is an okay defender while Wright is legit good, both can shoot some and could even play next to Marcus and Pritchard in 2 guard line-ups with 3 wings, like small ball line-ups. Not sure they're available though. The ship sadly has sailed on Winslow.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 23, 2021 20:00:09 GMT -5
Meh. He's probably not much more than a minimum guy at this point.
EDIT - Made it sound like a really exciting signing idea, didnt I? Guess what I meant is that it's a low risk move. The other guys are better options but, how available they are, would be the question.
In Wrights case, they do have Fox, Hield and Haliburton. Wright makes a decent amount to be the 4th guy their but not sure what Sac would be thinking. TT trade would be great but doubt they'd be interested.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 23, 2021 20:45:27 GMT -5
I'd be fine with Wright and Winslow. Though I'd use Winslow as a small ball PF like Crowder. Resign Fournier, ship out Thompson. Though Graham is my top realistic choice still.
Has Cameron Payne finally broken out? The Sun's almost haven't missed Paul and his numbers are eye opening.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 24, 2021 0:42:36 GMT -5
Meh. He's probably not much more than a minimum guy at this point. EDIT - Made it sound like a really exciting signing idea, didnt I? Guess what I meant is that it's a low risk move. The other guys are better options but, how available they are, would be the question. Yeah I meant that Winslow might be washed up. He had injury issues and was really, really not good at all last season. I absolutely loved him as a player earlier on, I'm just skeptic there's anything left there.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 24, 2021 6:50:24 GMT -5
Meh. He's probably not much more than a minimum guy at this point. EDIT - Made it sound like a really exciting signing idea, didnt I? Guess what I meant is that it's a low risk move. The other guys are better options but, how available they are, would be the question. Yeah I meant that Winslow might be washed up. He had injury issues and was really, really not good at all last season. I absolutely loved him as a player earlier on, I'm just skeptic there's anything left there. Now imagine if we had really traded 3 to 4 1st round picks for him!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 9:43:02 GMT -5
Kris Dunn is another guy I'd target for veteran depth if you wanted to build a defensive monster team. Yet he's another guy that struggles to stay healthy.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 24, 2021 9:48:47 GMT -5
Kris Dunn is another guy I'd target for veteran depth if you wanted to build a defensive monster team. Yet he's another guy that struggles to stay healthy. He does have a Player Option (or Early Termination, I never really know the difference) and I wonder if he would want to go on the market coming off a 4 game regular season and 3 mins (so far) in the playoffs.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 10:08:21 GMT -5
Kris Dunn is another guy I'd target for veteran depth if you wanted to build a defensive monster team. Yet he's another guy that struggles to stay healthy. He does have a Player Option (or Early Termination, I never really know the difference) and I wonder if he would want to go on the market coming off a 4 game regular season and 3 mins (so far) in the playoffs. I figured even if he picked that up, you could just use a trade exception and pick him up for nothing. He's not even playing when healthy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 24, 2021 15:49:33 GMT -5
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ianrs
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Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jun 25, 2021 3:18:02 GMT -5
Guys I really like as potentially cheap supplementary additions...
Kris Dunn: good switchable wing defender and decent playmaking
Larry Nance Jr.: Big modern 4
Delon Wright: very good PG defender/all around backup PGPG
Patty Mills: microwave PG/SG, maybe redundant with Pritchard but he's better
Josh Hart: wing physicality, rebounding, and defense
We need to move on from Carsen, Tacko, and Tristan. Potentially also Tremont but I still like him. Adds: Yam Madar, 45th pick
John Collins and Lonzo Ball would be insanely good fits to fill our PF/PG holes but don't see any way we can work the cap/roster stuff.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2021 5:29:46 GMT -5
I could be in the minority here but I think Thompson, on the court, when used right later in the year and in the playoffs was a great fit. I think he needs to go because he’s a shitty guy to have in the locker room which was definitely not what I expected. Unfortunately, I think he’s a good compliment to Williams and Horford.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 25, 2021 6:04:34 GMT -5
It’s going to be really embarrassing for Stephens when Presti flips Kemba for a better return than he gave up. It will highlight how he fleeced him into giving up the 16th pick and getting low end second round picks back.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,451
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Post by ianrs on Jun 25, 2021 6:11:14 GMT -5
It’s going to be really embarrassing for Stephens when Presti flips Kemba for a better return than he gave up. It will highlight how he fleeced him into giving up the 16th pick and getting low end second round picks back. It might be, but Presti could get equally embarrassed if Kembas knees are actually cooked, they do nothing with the 16th pick, and Celtics use the flexibility to get a star. But yeah Cs weren't dealing from a position of strength so there's always the possibility. Agreed though, I think the 16th pick could've given us a nice 4 to round out the roster.
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2021 9:40:44 GMT -5
It's less upside for sure, but are you guaranteed of getting a player as good as Moses Brown at 16?
He proved to, at least, be functional at the NBA level. Even though he was on a team that was quitting and somebody had to put up stats, there have been 16th overall picks that couldn't even do that.
Dont get me wrong, the 16th has more value. But there is some reaonable possibility that Brown outplays that guy. Especially in the short term.
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Post by jmei on Jun 25, 2021 10:08:20 GMT -5
It's less upside for sure, but are you guaranteed of getting a player as good as Moses Brown at 16? He proved to, at least, be functional at the NBA level. Even though he was on a team that was quitting and somebody had to put up stats, there have been 16th overall picks that couldn't even do that. Dont get me wrong, the 16th has more value. But there is some reaonable possibility that Brown outplays that guy. Especially in the short term. Eh, this is probably the wrong way to frame the question. Of course there’s a chance that Brown is better than the 16th pick in the draft. Every player has a range of possible outcomes, but you shouldn’t compare one player’s ceiling with another player’s floor. Brown has upside and is a nice lottery ticket, but, as you alluded to, most teams would rather have the 16th pick.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 25, 2021 10:38:49 GMT -5
I'm not so sure Kemba moving forward with his knees is any more valuable than a 35 year old Horford who also might fit better with this roster than Kemba does. Add in the salaries, the added flexibility, and I don't mind this trade at all. Who knows with Brown but IMO the whole 16th pick thing is way up in the air based on what happens moving forward. There is no reason to think that if he had stayed in college he would be drafted 16 or higher and that the pro experience he has instead isn't more valuable. He has been productive, although for a tanking team, but not every 16th pick goes for 21pts 23 rbs. Given what he has done in the Gleague and NBA in the past few years leads me to believe he is every bit worth the 16th pick.
As for Presti getting more in a trade. That doesn't take into consideration what Horford brings to the table for the C's and I will eat my words if that happens. It all still hinges on Kembas knees and availability in the future so this is all conjecture.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jun 25, 2021 10:56:28 GMT -5
It’s going to be really embarrassing for Stephens when Presti flips Kemba for a better return than he gave up. It will highlight how he fleeced him into giving up the 16th pick and getting low end second round picks back. It might be, but Presti could get equally embarrassed if Kembas knees are actually cooked, they do nothing with the 16th pick, and Celtics use the flexibility to get a star. But yeah Cs weren't dealing from a position of strength so there's always the possibility. Agreed though, I think the 16th pick could've given us a nice 4 to round out the roster. I agree with your first statement but the odds that you get a nice 4 to round out the roster aren't very good and probably nil for a few years given time to develop. Brown is much closer to being a solid contributor in the near future and comes with a great contract. He was GLeague first team all star and defensive all league in what would have been his Jr year in college. 24 points 18 rebounds and 7 blocks at 21 against other NBA players is noteworthy at the least. Maybe we should be a little more excited about what he could be, especially for less than 2 mil/yr for the next 3 years on a team that desperately needs low cost pieces.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 25, 2021 13:04:16 GMT -5
You can certainly defend Walker for Horford. The issues is giving up the 16th pick, along with downgrading a 2nd round pick. The cost was much more than the difference in the players. Now I'm slightly intrigued by Brown, yet no one was trading the 16th pick for him. Downgrading the second round pick feels like DD adding Allen to the Kimbrel package. What Presti wasn't going to do the trade without that? I knew this was going to happen. I was getting laughed at when I proposed 16 and getting back 35 and 36. Yet that kinda made sense, high second round has had a ton of value in recent drafts. Gives you the ability to still add talent, yet you can just do two way contracts. Thus no long-term salary commitments or using up roster spaces.
You have to question how fast Steven's did it. Ainge took more time trying to fleece the Pacers than Steven's did making this trade after just taking over. That's an issue for me because no way he weighed all his options or even had time to look at the NBA draft prospects. I would have felt better if he waited to right before the draft. See if a team fell in love with a player, that's the peak value of a pick.
I also hate Steven's saying he did this so he'd have future picks available to trade. This trade would look at lot better if it was a 2022 lottery protected first, which is likely much lower. That 16th pick was a huge asset when looking for a PG. We'll see what he does, yet this looks like a bad value trade. I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see Presti make Steven's look stupid by getting a return for Walker that no one predicted. I don't for a second like the Brown is better value than a guy at 16, that likely looks horrible in a few years!
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Post by texs31 on Jun 25, 2021 14:54:59 GMT -5
Keith Smith was on a podcast recently and they discussed the players most likely to get traded.
Tristan Thompson - mentioned in the discussion of another guy that TT was most likely to get moved Ben Simmons - said it's hard to come back in a relationship after comments made by Embiid and Doc Kemba Walker (again) - maybe but not likely CJ McCollum - finally the time to help build around Dame Jusef Nurkic - could be part of a big turnover related to above Derrick Jones Jr (if he opts in) - Same Kristaps Porzingis - called him 2nd most likely (after TT) Myles Turner - thought New Orleans would be perfect Steven Adams - especially if Turner is targeted Malcolm Brogdon - more about a shakeup in Indy than a real desire to move him TJ Warren - same (also issues with coach but that has now changed, obviously) Christian Wood - Keep an eye on since they may likely target Mobley and if they can get assets to build around him Kyle Kuzma/Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - as salaries to add another high profile player.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 25, 2021 15:55:00 GMT -5
I'm torn on Edward's. He made a big jump last year, very impressive 2 point FG% at over 60%. I fully believe his 3 point shot comes around. I would love to see them try to make him a PG. There's a decent chance he's Patty Mills next year. Without Walker and likely no Waters, the size issues kinda go away. I won't bitch if they move on for a solid veteran, yet he might be a useful bench scorer if everything clicks.
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