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6/22-6/24 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2021 22:45:00 GMT -5
Boy, that's about as painful a loss as I can remember.
But I disagree with most of the comments in this thread, which seem to really want to indict the team for this loss, or do that thing of ascribing metaphysical significance to the loss that fans always want to do. The Red Sox:
-pitched better than the Rays -hit better than the Rays -made fewer mistakes than the Rays, or made no more than them at least
But a couple of the Red Sox' mistakes came back to back in the 9th inning and cost them the game. That's baseball.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2021 22:53:52 GMT -5
Looking at the line up over the last 10 games or so - anyone hot? Verdugo- 10 for 41, 1 HR 5 RBI Martinez - 12 for 44, 1 HR 5 RBI Bogaerts - 11 for 37, 2 HR 5 RBI Devers - 13 for 37, 3 HR 12 RBI Vazquez - 9 for 37, 1 HR, 2 RBI Renfroe - 10 for 36, 2 HR, 7 RBI Hernandez - 7 for 37, 1 HR, 5 RBI Dalbec - 10 for 36, 2 HR, 5 RBI Surprised to see Dalbec with so many hits - what stands out is that no one is really hot (well, maybe Devers, somewhat) - and Kiké and Vaz are kind of cold - but really, the team is just showing some mediocre offense. Someone needs to get on fire. Fast. Collectively that's a .269 BA, which is better than every team but the Astros. 13 homers in 10 games isn't too shabby either.
Alas, Dalbec reliably goes cold 3-4 days after the first quarter moon, and it's happened again: first quarter happened 6/17, and since 6/21 he is 0-11 with 9 Ks. (He had hit .382/.432/.784 from June 10th to June 20th. I mean, it's comical...)
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 24, 2021 23:53:59 GMT -5
I feel like immediately after losing this series is a good time to bring up Duran for (hopefully) a shot in the arm.
I think better than Duran coming up would be the corresponding move of DFA’ing everyone’s favorite lead off hitter.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 25, 2021 2:36:17 GMT -5
CVaz needs to block that. Agree. Also a bad throw on the stolen base right beforehand. Tough pitch to get a good throw on and I'm not so sure Bogey couldn't have at least blocked the throw from going into center field.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 25, 2021 8:10:39 GMT -5
I don't know about costing them games per say. The Sox have fared well offensively despite a bad leadoff hitter and holes intermittently 7-9. That said, I would rather Duran be with the big club, but even when he comes up I don't want to slam him right into the leadoff and the fire game 1. Let him get a week in the 9th spot, pick your poison for the first hitter, and then after the first week re-evaluate. He would still represent a net positive pretty much anywhere in the lineup if he can mimic his AAA numbers. All I hear about all the time is how major league hitters are delicate flowers who wilt entirely if you shift them so much as one spot in the batting order. If that's so, wouldn't the easiest thing for Duran (and the best thing for the team) be to leave him in the leadoff spot he's accustomed to, rather than have him sit around and think about his first at bat for an hour each game? I noticed the Rays plunked Franco right into the 2 spot... Fair, today's players are soft in that regard and I pretty much hate that everything you ascribed to them behavior wise rings true.
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Post by station13 on Jun 25, 2021 9:35:01 GMT -5
This team needs to stop giving away an out from lead off. Does Dugie simply dislikes having to bat first or something? Not like anyone is ever on base before he hit.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2021 9:45:28 GMT -5
This team needs to stop giving away an out from lead off. Does Dugie simply dislikes having to bat first or something? Not like anyone is ever on base before he hit. Doubt it has anything to do with Verdugo. He lead off last year. I think this is Cora being stubborn and wanting to freeze Verdugo/JDM/X/Devers and now Renfroe as his 2 through 6 hitters. I think he had it in his mind that Hernandez was going to be better than he was, but he saw that his OBP was lousy and removed him but his only potential good solution is still in Worcester whacking HR after HR.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 25, 2021 9:49:59 GMT -5
This team needs to stop giving away an out from lead off. Does Dugie simply dislikes having to bat first or something? Not like anyone is ever on base before he hit. Doubt it has anything to do with Verdugo. He lead off last year. I think this is Cora being stubborn and wanting to freeze Verdugo/JDM/X/Devers and now Renfroe as his 2 through 6 hitters. I think he had it in his mind that Hernandez was going to be better than he was, but he saw that his OBP was lousy and removed him but his only potential good solution is still in Worcester whacking HR after HR. “Leadoff spot is one of those things that you know it’s a roller coaster,” Verdugo said in spring training. “For me, it was just learning how to handle that first at-bat. I had a lot of inner mixed feelings. Do I want to swing at the first pitch? Do I want to have a good at-bat and see a lot of pitches? Or do I want to be aggressive and try to set the tone? So you know, I found myself kind of in the middle, at times." I just had to go up there and have my at-bats and pretend like it wasn’t to lead off the game. Too many times I get caught up and my mind speeds up the results, instead of the actual process of getting it. So for me, it was just, slow down my mind, slow down my body and let’s take it pitch-by-pitch.” theathletic.com/2662313/2021/06/19/red-sox-finding-ways-to-win-despite-lack-of-production-at-the-leadoff-spot/Sounds like the reason Doogie isn't leading off is because he'd prefer not to.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 25, 2021 10:35:10 GMT -5
There are many things about Major League Baseball players I'll never quite get, and I figure it's just because I'm not a Major League Baseball player.
- Why closer by committee tends not to work (although that seems to be going away). You come in, you pitch your inning. Who cares if it's the 7th or the 9th? I kind of get 9th inning adrenaline, and I get knowing roughly when you're going to throw (versus, say, not knowing if you're an option in the 5th versus the 9th so you can start getting focused), but the way it at least used to just throw guys off completely baffled me. - Why guys care so much about where they hit in the order. I kinda get it for the first time through the order but like, why does it matter if you're hitting leadoff after the first inning? - The "ace pitching-offensive letdown" correlation that used to kill Pedro and still gets deGrom sometimes. Why does the person pitching for your team affect your at-bats?
Oh well.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 25, 2021 11:03:12 GMT -5
Doubt it has anything to do with Verdugo. He lead off last year. I think this is Cora being stubborn and wanting to freeze Verdugo/JDM/X/Devers and now Renfroe as his 2 through 6 hitters. I think he had it in his mind that Hernandez was going to be better than he was, but he saw that his OBP was lousy and removed him but his only potential good solution is still in Worcester whacking HR after HR. “Leadoff spot is one of those things that you know it’s a roller coaster,” Verdugo said in spring training. “For me, it was just learning how to handle that first at-bat. I had a lot of inner mixed feelings. Do I want to swing at the first pitch? Do I want to have a good at-bat and see a lot of pitches? Or do I want to be aggressive and try to set the tone? So you know, I found myself kind of in the middle, at times." I just had to go up there and have my at-bats and pretend like it wasn’t to lead off the game. Too many times I get caught up and my mind speeds up the results, instead of the actual process of getting it. So for me, it was just, slow down my mind, slow down my body and let’s take it pitch-by-pitch.” theathletic.com/2662313/2021/06/19/red-sox-finding-ways-to-win-despite-lack-of-production-at-the-leadoff-spot/Sounds like the reason Doogie isn't leading off is because he'd prefer not to.Geez. I don't have access to the athletic so thanks for letting me know. I still think Cora should have built him up to help "convince" him to lead off as opposed to acquiescing to his wishes because the team isn't better with all these other guys leading off. Hopefully soon Duran makes it a moot point.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 25, 2021 11:10:32 GMT -5
Keeping Verdugo happy and comfortable is about seven thousand times more important than optimizing a lineup by moving a guy one spot.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Jun 25, 2021 11:31:50 GMT -5
Keeping Verdugo happy and comfortable is about seven thousand times more important than optimizing a lineup by moving a guy one spot. Really? I mean, isn’t fielding the best team more important? And Verdugo is a good player, but he isn’t good enough to get his own Jordan Rules.
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Post by Coreno on Jun 25, 2021 12:59:42 GMT -5
Batting order has a pretty minimal effect on offensive production.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 25, 2021 13:27:51 GMT -5
Keeping Verdugo happy and comfortable is about seven thousand times more important than optimizing a lineup by moving a guy one spot. Really? I mean, isn’t fielding the best team more important? And Verdugo is a good player, but he isn’t good enough to get his own Jordan Rules. In most contexts I would agree with your line of thinking, but the theoretical gains from going from a pretty good lineup to a totally optimal lineup are really small. I want Cora to use the lineup for things like keeping morale high, keeping players on the even keel, and making players want to sign sweetheart extensions
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Jun 25, 2021 13:58:08 GMT -5
There are many things about Major League Baseball players I'll never quite get, and I figure it's just because I'm not a Major League Baseball player. - Why closer by committee tends not to work (although that seems to be going away). You come in, you pitch your inning. Who cares if it's the 7th or the 9th? I kind of get 9th inning adrenaline, and I get knowing roughly when you're going to throw (versus, say, not knowing if you're an option in the 5th versus the 9th so you can start getting focused), but the way it at least used to just throw guys off completely baffled me. - Why guys care so much about where they hit in the order. I kinda get it for the first time through the order but like, why does it matter if you're hitting leadoff after the first inning? - The "ace pitching-offensive letdown" correlation that used to kill Pedro and still gets deGrom sometimes. Why does the person pitching for your team affect your at-bats? Oh well. Baseball players are steeped in superstition. They're an odd breed. Though I never made it to the majors I played ball till my early twenties in twilight leagues and the like. When I play now, even with my kids, I find the same tic's returning, and its like a comfort thing. It's not to be explained other than I imagine to make it to the big leagues you have to be very regimented and a LOT crazy. Think of all the various rituals we have become privy to over the years. Nomar's batting gloves, Boggs chicken, watching David Ortiz spit in his own hands 4x + a night.
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Post by greenmonster on Jun 25, 2021 15:08:53 GMT -5
Yet one more mistake in fundamentals. We know it happens, but oof is about right. OOF = Opposite Of Fundamentals
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