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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 26, 2021 19:55:30 GMT -5
I'm trying to think about the last top(ish) draft pick that they didn't sign. Brandon Kline? Senquez Golson? I mean given the extra pick and bonus money that could help the team take a riskier strategy by taking a really safe pick and funneling that extra bonus money for someone that wouldn't have been signable at their regular first round slot.
I doubt that this changes anything for Green but I imagine that Hickey and Kavadas are locks. I wonder if Guerrero is now in play.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867 
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Post by cdj on Jul 26, 2021 19:55:33 GMT -5
Whatever I’ll take the 41st pick next year, it’s all Mayer and gravy here Plus another 2022 2nd rounder? I don't know how it works. I think it’s just pick 41 next year, I could be wrong though as I often am |
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 26, 2021 19:59:00 GMT -5
We just get the same pick we had this year but the "1-A" version next year. That on top of whatever pick we'd have in the round.
Edit: And with its corresponding bonus pool money of course. But that compensation pick, even though it was for a pick that was protected, itself will not be protected again.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 26, 2021 20:00:24 GMT -5
If a Major League Club fails to sign a player who was selected with a draft selection awarded pursuant to this Rule 4(c)(2) before the player is removed from the Club’s Negotiation List pursuant to Rule 4(d) (Effect of Selection on Player), the Club again shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft as compensation for failing to sign its original supplemental selection, as follows:
“(i) If the unsigned supplemental selection was selected prior to the third round, the Club shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft at the same numbered position as its unsigned supplemental selection. In the event that the same numbered position is awarded to another Club as supplemental compensation pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above, the Club awarded the supplemental selection for the second time shall be awarded the selection following the selection awarded to the other Club pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 26, 2021 20:09:15 GMT -5
They're kinda forced to give Jud's buddy Nate a huge overslot bonus now. Or if Hickey plays hardball maybe Green considers signing for 1M, which is like a pick at the end of the second round? |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 26, 2021 20:10:09 GMT -5
If a Major League Club fails to sign a player who was selected with a draft selection awarded pursuant to this Rule 4(c)(2) before the player is removed from the Club’s Negotiation List pursuant to Rule 4(d) (Effect of Selection on Player), the Club again shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft as compensation for failing to sign its original supplemental selection, as follows: “(i) If the unsigned supplemental selection was selected prior to the third round, the Club shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft at the same numbered position as its unsigned supplemental selection. In the event that the same numbered position is awarded to another Club as supplemental compensation pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above, the Club awarded the supplemental selection for the second time shall be awarded the selection following the selection awarded to the other Club pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above. Thank you. I interpret this to mean regular 2022 2nd round pick plus the comp pick -- am I wrong? |
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Post by tizzle on Jul 26, 2021 20:11:00 GMT -5
Liked the upside, was hoping he'd sign. But, at the same time, he wasn't my favorite choice we made, and getting back the pick next year is a nice fallback.
If we use the overshot money well, then it will be A-OK by me. (not that anyone cares)
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 26, 2021 20:18:55 GMT -5
At least all of the Fabian number posting in future threads will give us a break from people posting Benintendi's numbers or anyone else's.
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Jul 26, 2021 20:28:05 GMT -5
Draft next year just got A LOT more fun
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Post by pasadenasox on Jul 26, 2021 20:33:27 GMT -5
We'll have to wait and see if he's more Pedro Alvarez or Alex Bregman.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 26, 2021 20:38:15 GMT -5
Jud's not really one that got away, since they didn't realistically have any way of signing him.
The one that got away is the next guy the Sox would have drafted. We should pick someone ahead of time. I nominate Joshua Baez.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2021 20:44:21 GMT -5
Not a great look for Chaim if we're being honest. You had to know beforehand that it was gonna take 3 to get it done and if you weren't comfortable going to 3 you can't still take him and lose all that slot money. They knew exactly what they were doing. He had a deal with at least one team behind them for $3M. They picked him and are basically daring him to turn down late-first-round money to return to school because his number is $3M (late-mid-first-round money). Like if he wants to go back to school and try to get that next year as a senior (albeit a COVID senior) more power to him. This is exactly what the Red Sox did with Groome btw. He had a deal with San Diego and they took him anyway and signed him. This is also exactly what the Rangers did with Leiter. Also, keep in mind this is coming from the player's agent. There's a nonzero chance this is a negotiating tactic and he changes his mind at the last minute (or this brings Boston up from like $2.3M to $2.5M or something). |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2021 20:45:07 GMT -5
Are we that confident they won’t be able to sign Payton Green now? Everyone labeled him as “Fabian insurance” at the pick. Seems like if they knew Fabian may not sign, they’d at least take a high schooler who’s price they knew they could meet with the extra money. It's highly unlikely based on the amount of money they have left (never mind that Hickey will take an overslot bonus). They're kinda forced to give Jud's buddy Nate a huge overslot bonus now. Or if Hickey plays hardball maybe Green considers signing for 1M, which is like a pick at the end of the second round? They can't give him that. They've got like $1.15M to give Hickey and use for overslot on day 3. |
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 26, 2021 20:47:15 GMT -5
Also, keep in mind this is coming from the player's agent. There's a nonzero chance this is a negotiating tactic and he changes his mind at the last minute (or this brings Boston up from like $2.3M to $2.5M or something). +1 |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2021 20:48:38 GMT -5
This could get more complicated with the upcoming trade deadline and the Red Sox close to the luxury tax threshold. Could their 2021 2nd round pick carryover to 2022 be at risk if the Red Sox exceed the luxury tax threshold? You lose a first-round pick if you go over the third CBT threshold. They aren't going to come near that. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2021 20:49:48 GMT -5
If a Major League Club fails to sign a player who was selected with a draft selection awarded pursuant to this Rule 4(c)(2) before the player is removed from the Club’s Negotiation List pursuant to Rule 4(d) (Effect of Selection on Player), the Club again shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft as compensation for failing to sign its original supplemental selection, as follows: “(i) If the unsigned supplemental selection was selected prior to the third round, the Club shall receive a supplemental selection in the next First-Year Player Draft at the same numbered position as its unsigned supplemental selection. In the event that the same numbered position is awarded to another Club as supplemental compensation pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above, the Club awarded the supplemental selection for the second time shall be awarded the selection following the selection awarded to the other Club pursuant to Rule 4(c)(2)(A) above. Thank you. I interpret this to mean regular 2022 2nd round pick plus the comp pick -- am I wrong? You're overthinking this. If they don't sign Fabian they basically get the same pick (but one later) next year. Literally nothing else changes, and it's just another normal pick with a slot value and everything else. If the second part of that confuses you, it's because MLB got rid (for one year I think) of the part where the compensation pick the following year isn't protected the second time around (in other words you can't just keep rolling it over, but this year they let teams roll it over one more year). |
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Post by evanstonredsox on Jul 26, 2021 20:50:24 GMT -5
Are we that confident they won’t be able to sign Payton Green now? Everyone labeled him as “Fabian insurance” at the pick. Seems like if they knew Fabian may not sign, they’d at least take a high schooler who’s price they knew they could meet with the extra money. It's highly unlikely based on the amount of money they have left (never mind that Hickey will take an overslot bonus). Or if Hickey plays hardball maybe Green considers signing for 1M, which is like a pick at the end of the second round? They can't give him that. They've got like $1.15M to give Hickey and use for overslot on day 3. Even highly unlikely gives me a little hope (even tho I probably shouldn’t have any). Just seems odd to use a 15th rounder on a player you have absolutely no path to sign. I’m probably way off but feels like they know something we don’t. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 26, 2021 20:53:06 GMT -5
It's highly unlikely based on the amount of money they have left (never mind that Hickey will take an overslot bonus). They can't give him that. They've got like $1.15M to give Hickey and use for overslot on day 3. Even highly unlikely gives me a little hope (even tho I probably shouldn’t have any). Just seems odd to use a 15th rounder on a player you have absolutely no path to sign. I’m probably way off but feels like they know something we don’t. Don't take this personally, but you are in fact way off. Lol. In 2019 they did the same thing in rounds 14-16, for example. Only way he signs is if something happens that stuns us all in terms of how little it takes to sign someone. Again, they have $1.15M to sign a fifth-round pick who wants overslot and guys after the 10th. Green might be a future first-rounder. He's not going to take like, $200k. |
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 26, 2021 20:58:44 GMT -5
Even highly unlikely gives me a little hope (even tho I probably shouldn’t have any). Just seems odd to use a 15th rounder on a player you have absolutely no path to sign. I’m probably way off but feels like they know something we don’t. The draft history page does it well but you can see the Red Sox have drafted many high ranked players towards the end of the draft and haven't signed them. Zach Watson comes to mind. Trey Faltine? Austin Bergner? If nothing else it builds a repoire with the player and some good will and who knows, maybe we see them again in a few years. |
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 26, 2021 21:00:57 GMT -5
Not a great look for Chaim if we're being honest. You had to know beforehand that it was gonna take 3 to get it done and if you weren't comfortable going to 3 you can't still take him and lose all that slot money. If we're being honest, Chaim and crew known what they're doing. Ya, let's blindly follow, that always works out. |
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Post by evanstonredsox on Jul 26, 2021 21:02:20 GMT -5
Even highly unlikely gives me a little hope (even tho I probably shouldn’t have any). Just seems odd to use a 15th rounder on a player you have absolutely no path to sign. I’m probably way off but feels like they know something we don’t. The draft history page does it well but you can see the Red Sox have drafted many high ranked players towards the end of the draft and haven't signed them. Zach Watson comes to mind. Trey Faltine? Austin Bergner? If nothing else it builds a repoire with the player and some good will and who knows, maybe we see them again in a few years. Well aware of that, just thought that would be a 19th/20th round thing for a 20 round draft. Not saying I thought there was a good chance to sign him on draft day but 15th rounder just seemed like more than a courtesy pick to me, guess I was wrong. |
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 26, 2021 21:03:08 GMT -5
Ya, let's blindly follow, that always works out. Let's at least just wait until the end of the week before we start burning things. Please? |
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 26, 2021 21:06:52 GMT -5
Ya, let's blindly follow, that always works out. Let's at least just wait until the end of the week before we start burning things. Please? I'm not burning anything, I just hate that. It's such a cop-out to say that the people in charge know what they are doing. Why be a fan then? Form your own opinions. Even Bill Belichick deserves to get criticized for deals he does and doesn't make. Chaim Bloom is certainly not above that. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jul 26, 2021 21:17:03 GMT -5
Hubris aplenty tonight.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 26, 2021 21:35:10 GMT -5
As Hatfield stated, these sort of tactics and hedges are nothing new. They've done it in the past and they'll do it in the future. There's gamesmanship on both sides. That is what having an agent do your negotiating can bring to the table. It does get them an extra pick next year if this is what the kid wants. Given the team's success this year, that does count for something.
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