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8/10-8/12 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 22:32:06 GMT -5
How...just how.... did this team have winning streaks of 9 and 8 games? That was then...this is now! Regressing to the mean? Pen breaking down due to low inning starters? I have no idea what is going on with the inability to hit with men on base. What we are seeing now is very 2019-ish - the year Cora lost the team, year after best team ever. That team was also very poor in clutch hitting and starting pitching.
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Post by benzinger on Aug 10, 2021 22:36:50 GMT -5
How...just how.... did this team have winning streaks of 9 and 8 games? Skip : What's our record, Larry? Larry : Eight and sixteen. Skip : Eight... and sixteen. How'd we ever win eight? Larry : It's a miracle
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Post by Oregon Norm on Aug 10, 2021 22:41:04 GMT -5
Man that got ugly. Walked out of the house to pick up a few groceries and when I looked again it had all blown up.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 10, 2021 22:43:52 GMT -5
How...just how.... did this team have winning streaks of 9 and 8 games? That was then...this is now! Regressing to the mean? Pen breaking down due to low inning starters? I have no idea what is going on with the inability to hit with men on base. What we are seeing now is very 2019-ish - the year Cora lost the team, year after best team ever. That team was also very poor in clutch hitting and starting pitching. They only seem to have 1 way to win. They rarely blow out their opponents so their starters would put them in an early hole their offense would have to dig them out of and the bullpen would go long and hold down the game. Playing that way kills the pen. Other than Eovaldi on occasion the team has no starters who can go 7 innings. Hell, even in good starts they can't complete 6 innings, so they must use the same 5 relievers to have a chance to win. They can't use low leverage guys because they rarely have a big enough lead. Their starters can't dominate for 7. They have to get 10 - 13 outs in high leverage from their pen. They can't draw walks on offense so they have to string 3 hits together which is really hard to do, so scoring runs gets tougher when there's no HRs. Other teams sprinkle in walks so that they only need a couple of hits to score runs. And the offense constantly had 3 big holes in it each night which makes it tougher to overcome deficits their starters put them in, which makes all those comeback wins kind if miraculous, but with the pen taxed from the short starts, the opposition isn't getting held down, so bad starts turn into blowouts and good short starts wind up with bullpen meltdowns. Everything is going wrong.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 10, 2021 22:46:10 GMT -5
Bloom is looking like a genius for not adding to this dumpster fire. Barnes is a mediocre pitcher without the goop, JD is old, Franchy/Dalbec are the two worst hitters I've ever seen, Duran isn't ready,, Perez is terrible, a good performance from Richards is 3 ER in 5 innings, they should have sold on empty bat Vazquez before the season, Verdugo is basically just a "guy". E-Rod is finally turning around his awful season, but only to see Eovaldi and Pivetta fall off. At this rate, maybe they can still catch the Os? /sarcasm The only people I care to see next year are: Xander, Devers, Sale, Whitlock, and maybe Renfroe, E-Rod, Kiké, Verdugo and Duran. What a dumpster fire this team has become. Wouldn't even be surprised at .500 at this point. Waitâ¦. You just listed a bunch of his moves to show he is a genius for not adding more! I mean, Sale is older coming off injury and I'm sure he'd help. I'm hoping the plan is to have Schwarber next season. Again, a guy who we won't see until we're at least 10 back. Renfroe has been a revelation for what he is, same with Kiké. E-Rod has been underwhelming and there's just always something with him whether it's under performance or health. He got quality in the off-season, but the team seems fundamentally broken, especially when the pitchers were told to stop cheating. Pérez, JDM, Eovaldi, E-Rod, Barnes, Vazquez, Xander, Devers all pre-date him. He wasn't wrong to move on from JBJ or Benintendi. I just hope someone like Josh Winckowski is a net positive. Just a frustrating product this team has become these last few weeks. What they're doing just feels like it's mathematically implausible.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 22:51:39 GMT -5
Saw this on the WEEI site, from Alex Speier
(Rafael) Devers (.154 average, .688 OPS), (J.D.) Martinez (.233/.639), Alex Verdugo (.143/.412), and (Xander) Bogaerts (.067/.361) have all struggled with runners in scoring position since July 6. From July 22-Aug. 6, the Sox have been among the worst in baseball in virtually every statistical category with runners in scoring position.
Over a stretch from July 25-Aug. 5, the Sox built their identity around squandered scoring opportunities. In 22 plate appearances with runners on third and fewer than two outs, they scored just four runs (two on sacrifice flies, two on ground outs), going 0 for 17 with two walks, one hit batter, 10 strikeouts, and two double plays.
And this from Twitter
Kevin Plawecki is the only Red Sox player to record a hit with a runner on third and fewer than two outs since July 21.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 10, 2021 22:54:12 GMT -5
Saw this on the WEEI site, from Alex Speier (Rafael) Devers (.154 average, .688 OPS), (J.D.) Martinez (.233/.639), Alex Verdugo (.143/.412), and (Xander) Bogaerts (.067/.361) have all struggled with runners in scoring position since July 6. From July 22-Aug. 6, the Sox have been among the worst in baseball in virtually every statistical category with runners in scoring position. Over a stretch from July 25-Aug. 5, the Sox built their identity around squandered scoring opportunities. In 22 plate appearances with runners on third and fewer than two outs, they scored just four runs (two on sacrifice flies, two on ground outs), going 0 for 17 with two walks, one hit batter, 10 strikeouts, and two double plays. And this from Twitter Kevin Plawecki is the only Red Sox player to record a hit with a runner on third and fewer than two outs since July 21. That's amazing, the opposite of clutch. Are they trying to hit HRs? The total opposite of what Cora preaches. They've been getting themselves out. They are pressing.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 10, 2021 23:11:06 GMT -5
Just looking at the active roster. It screams for Sale and Houck as starters (hoping Sale can come back with most of his prime magic - but it may take some time). Also screams for Richards to NOT be a starter. The pen is....a problem. Barnes and Ottavino are not in a good place, Whitlock finally got nicked (to me lots of it was pitch selection, I still have lots of confidence in him), Taylor and perhaps Sawamura. What will Brazier have? But lots of detritus - Robles, Davis, Perez, and who knows what you get from Rios or Valdez. Not a comfy situation.
The "offense" (the recently offensive offense) - we get nothing from Vazquez, Cordero, Gonzalez, Dalbec, Arauz (zzzz) - throw in a seemingly not quite right Xander and JD, a cooling off Kiké and Devers - Plawecki and Verdugo as the best hitters right now? Renfro? Not a comfy situation here, either. Having Schwarber will help, having Arroyo will help - having Santana will not.
Not sure what Cora can do with this bunch, with so many of them in bad stretches.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 10, 2021 23:42:05 GMT -5
Team needs Arroyo, once he’s back we win again
Kids magical
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Post by benzinger on Aug 11, 2021 0:27:08 GMT -5
Team needs Arroyo, once he’s back we win again Kids magical I believe it. It’s just too bad he’s hurt 65% of the time.
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Post by soxinsf on Aug 11, 2021 1:07:02 GMT -5
It is time for some good news. Probably does not belong here except for its lightening of the mood for a moment or two.
Both Munoz and Yorke had 3 for 5 nights extending their hitting streaks. Yorke, who had great months in June and July is hitting over .500 in August. Munoz probably represents a chance at a useful addition to the roster at the expenses of Marwin, Danny et al.
Smile. Your blood pressure will appreciate it.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 11, 2021 1:36:36 GMT -5
Unbelievable
Barnes turns into a pumpkin after signing that extension
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Post by voiceofreason on Aug 11, 2021 4:43:16 GMT -5
Red Sox have a total of 28 quality starts for the season, only Pittsburgh, Twins and Orioles are worse. The Rays only have 29, with Glasnow collecting 9, but have the best ERA in the AL at 3.59 while the Sox are at 4.31. Like I have said numerous times this is the future for how to build a pitching staff and I am pretty sure Chaim is going to move in this direction. It costs less than dishing out big money for supposed starters and the number of pitchers who can effectively go thru a lineup 3 times is dwindling. The Sox should be able to accomplish this with the number of 4 or 5 starter level type pitchers they have in between AAA and Boston.
Without a couple wins in a row here against TB and the Sox will be playing for the WC or worse.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 11, 2021 5:57:05 GMT -5
Red Sox have a total of 28 quality starts for the season, only Pittsburgh, Twins and Orioles are worse. The Rays only have 29, with Glasnow collecting 9, but have the best ERA in the AL at 3.59 while the Sox are at 4.31. Like I have said numerous times this is the future for how to build a pitching staff and I am pretty sure Chaim is going to move in this direction. It costs less than dishing out big money for supposed starters and the number of pitchers who can effectively go thru a lineup 3 times is dwindling. The Sox should be able to accomplish this with the number of 4 or 5 starter level type pitchers they have in between AAA and Boston. Without a couple wins in a row here against TB and the Sox will be playing for the WC or worse. They didn't see a problem with the rotation at the deadline and kept running Richards and Perez out there like nothing was wrong. Is what it is but this is what happens when you don't pick a path to follow. Yes this team has over achieved but management did nothing to fix the biggest need on this team, the pitching. They prioritized mid level prospects and the luxury tax over capitalizing on the opportunity. Now you have a swollen 40 man roster come November and you'll have to make some difficult choices. Not only that but this team clearly checked out after the deadline. Yes Schwarber will help when he comes back but as we've already seen someone who has a hamstring injury and learning a new position on top of rehabbing an injury cannot fully be counted on. Especially since he hurt himself learning that new position. At this point keep Houck up, call up Seabold and get Sale right. DFA Perez, Richards and half the bums in the pen. Focus on the future. Call up Ort and Munoz too. Just see what you have next year. The way this is going the Sox won't even make the WC game which is crazy to even say given where they were in the standings on July 30th.
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Post by patford on Aug 11, 2021 7:27:02 GMT -5
Well we don't need to worry about the next eight games because the Sox are toast. Their one strength the bullpen is completely burnt out from overuse and the team probably won't win ten games from here to the end of the season. I should say hopefully won't win ten games because the thing to shoot for now is a better draft position.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 11, 2021 7:39:21 GMT -5
Barnes has just been so bad lately
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Post by Canseco on Aug 11, 2021 7:41:20 GMT -5
Unbelievable Barnes turns into a pumpkin after signing that extension Isn’t it funny how that works?
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Post by Guidas on Aug 11, 2021 7:42:14 GMT -5
Don’t worry fellas - Bloom and the organization said help was coming. Sale on Friday and Schwarber a week or so from then.
Management bringing water after the house burnt down. Outstanding.
But, sure, stick to the “plan.” When do they predict that will have this team poised for a Division title, again? Did they ever give a date for that, cause I know when I submit a strategic plan to my CEO it needs an end date and check points along the way. And if ever don’t hit one of those, I’m gone.
Or is it just drink the Kool Aide, buy tickets and wait and see?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 11, 2021 7:44:15 GMT -5
People know they are still 15 games above .500 right? I’m as pissed off as anybody after last night but the rhetoric im seeing online is kind of hilarious
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Post by patford on Aug 11, 2021 7:55:11 GMT -5
Just focusing on this game. It all started when Whitlock mysteriously could not throw strikes. That is always the way it is with the Rays and the Yankees. MLB supposedly wants to get away from the three outcomes style of baseball but as long as umpires continue to reward the Rays and Yankees for standing around MLB will never get away from the three outcomes style of play. There is an easy fix for this and it does not involve ridiculous extra inning nonsense rules. Electronic balls and strikes.
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Post by jbuttah on Aug 11, 2021 8:19:33 GMT -5
Just focusing on this game. It all started when Whitlock mysteriously could not throw strikes. That is always the way it is with the Rays and the Yankees. MLB supposedly wants to get away from the three outcomes style of baseball but as long as umpires continue to reward the Rays and Yankees for standing around MLB will never get away from the three outcomes style of play. There is an easy fix for this and it does not involve ridiculous extra inning nonsense rules. Electronic balls and strikes. I could understand the Yankees, but why would the Rays get a special strike zone from umps? Having said that, I'm ready for robo umps.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,648
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Post by cdj on Aug 11, 2021 8:19:48 GMT -5
Joe was giving them pitches off the plate and was relatively consistent, I have no problem with his umpiring last night
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 11, 2021 8:23:57 GMT -5
Just focusing on this game. It all started when Whitlock mysteriously could not throw strikes. That is always the way it is with the Rays and the Yankees. MLB supposedly wants to get away from the three outcomes style of baseball but as long as umpires continue to reward the Rays and Yankees for standing around MLB will never get away from the three outcomes style of play. There is an easy fix for this and it does not involve ridiculous extra inning nonsense rules. Electronic balls and strikes. They'll have electronic balls and strikes soon enough, but enough with the damn umpiring conspiracy theories. Why is it so damn hard to say that the Yankees and Rays have disciplined hitters who actually know how to take a walk while Red Sox hitters swing at anything that moves? What the hell are the umpires supposed to do when they watch the Sox constantly flail at pitches outside the zone? They're not going to get the benefit of close pitches when they're like that. Cora and Bloom wanted a team that could hit for average and put the ball in play. They weren't concerned about walks because they figured that running the starting pitcher's pitch count wasn't going to be as advantageous as it was fifteen years ago. Back then you wanted the starter out at 100 pitches by the 5th inning so they could bring in some scrub who they could rake against. Now in the 2020s, even the freaking 6th inning guy throws 110, and it's built into the formula that starters don't go much more than 5 innings anymore, so getting the starter out early has become less of a big deal, so Bloom and Cora figure, get hitters who don't strike out, put the ball in play and hit .270 while everybody else is hitting .240, the new moneyball in a way. And early on, that's what the Sox were doing. They weren't walking, but they were hitting their way on and putting pressure on the other defenses. They weren't striking out as much as other teams. But at some point, other teams adjusted and used the Sox hitters' overagressiveness against them, so now the Sox flail at anything, they're swinging at pitches that are not strikes and it's reflecting in the lower batting averages and the higher strike out totals. Walking is still a rare event for them. When have they even walked 4 times in a game? I'm sure it's happened, but I bet it's a lot rarer than the other teams. That simple thing is impacting their offense. The Red Sox offense, 1 - 9, is made of up guys who pretty much hack with only X and Devers really showing any real patience for the most part (Not lately - as the pressure has mounted, they are hacking away too). Factor that all in and umpires aren't going to go out of their way to give the Sox hitters' borderline strikes, but I don't think it's some umpire let's screw the Sox conspiracy nonsense.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 11, 2021 8:24:50 GMT -5
People know they are still 15 games above .500 right? I’m as pissed off as anybody after last night but the rhetoric im seeing online is kind of hilarious It's not about that record - the record today in isolation. It's about trends, how they've been playing - how they've been losing - and what the players are doing recently. The rhetoric is appropriate for what's been going on the last dozen games.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 11, 2021 8:48:03 GMT -5
It's interesting to note that the primary focus on the site is redirected to the farm. If we are going down, I'd rather have it happen fast...like jumping into a cold ocean...get it over with...less pain.
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