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Chasing a Gold Glover: Ceddanne Rafaela
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 17, 2024 18:15:27 GMT -5
Reality check: The Red Sox are not going to trade Ceddanne Rafaela less than a year after signing him to a looooonnnnngggg extension.
Doing so would ensure that none of the the rest of the young crop, whether now in the majors or minors, will consider signing an extension with CB2.
He's not getting traded. I have not noticed anyone saying he's being traded now. However his team friendly deal increases his value making him and his contract more desirable to other teams therefore by common sense increases the chances he's traded at some point during his contract with the Sox. Everything I just wrote above should not be a point of contention but rather accepted as common sense. Also if he's traded it would have little to no impact on other players signing extensions. It never has in the past yet people love to state these type of things often enough that I think people begin to believe as truth. They believe it despite no evidence to support it. Edit: I'm not advocating trading Rafaela.
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Post by keninten on Aug 17, 2024 18:39:55 GMT -5
Reality check: The Red Sox are not going to trade Ceddanne Rafaela less than a year after signing him to a looooonnnnngggg extension.
Doing so would ensure that none of the the rest of the young crop, whether now in the majors or minors, will consider signing an extension with CB2.
He's not getting traded. I have not noticed anyone saying he's being traded now. However his team friendly deal increases his value making him and his contract more desirable to other teams therefore by common sense increases the chances he's traded at some point during his contract with the Sox. Everything I just wrote above should not be a point of contention but rather accepted as common sense. Also if he's traded it would have little to no impact on other players signing extensions. It never has in the past yet people love to state these type of things often enough that I think people begin to believe as truth. They believe it despite no evidence to support it. Edit: I'm not advocating trading Rafaela. Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo Pena.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,483
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 17, 2024 19:10:09 GMT -5
I have not noticed anyone saying he's being traded now. However his team friendly deal increases his value making him and his contract more desirable to other teams therefore by common sense increases the chances he's traded at some point during his contract with the Sox. Everything I just wrote above should not be a point of contention but rather accepted as common sense. Also if he's traded it would have little to no impact on other players signing extensions. It never has in the past yet people love to state these type of things often enough that I think people begin to believe as truth. They believe it despite no evidence to support it. Edit: I'm not advocating trading Rafaela. Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo Pena. Yup, and Theo Epstein regretted that trade.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 17, 2024 21:42:22 GMT -5
Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo Pena. Yup, and Theo Epstein regretted that trade. But that has nothing to do with the point at hand.
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Post by keninten on Aug 17, 2024 21:59:11 GMT -5
Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo Pena. Yup, and Theo Epstein regretted that trade. Arroyo threw 8 years of 200 IP after being traded for Wily Mo Pena who played 2 years and didn`t get 500 AB. You sure Theo regretted that?🤔
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 17, 2024 23:01:01 GMT -5
Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo ena. This is very true, but Arroyo was an odd situation. At the time of the extension, the contract was generally panned among baseball pundits as an extreme bargain and his own agent (Gregg Clifton) advised him not to sign it. If anything, the Arroyo contract shows just how much bargaining power a team a has with 'late bloomer' prospects. The only similar Red Sox situation I can think of within the last decade was the Rob Refsnyder extension - he signed just before the rule-5 40-man additions, which implies that he was worried he would get cut - whether this was true or not. If you're 29 (like Arroyo) or 31 (like Refsnyder) you're going to take the money, because it's life-changing, even if it's a bad deal. At Rafaela's age I don't think Arroyo is a fair comparison, but it's definitely a good reminder that the team can always trade you, especially if you outplay your contract. Add: on the bright side, Arroyo had nearly 100mil in career earnings, so nobody should feel too sorry for him, he did just fine.
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Post by keninten on Aug 17, 2024 23:48:29 GMT -5
Didn`t that happen to Bronson Arroyo? Not long after signing a team friendly deal with the Sox he was traded for Wily Mo ena. This is very true, but Arroyo was an odd situation. At the time of the extension, the contract was generally panned among baseball pundits as an extreme bargain and his own agent (Gregg Clifton) advised him not to sign it. If anything, the Arroyo contract shows just how much bargaining power a team a has with 'late bloomer' prospects. The only similar Red Sox situation I can think of within the last decade was the Rob Refsnyder extension - he signed just before the rule-5 40-man additions, which implies that he was worried he would get cut - whether this was true or not. If you're 29 (like Arroyo) or 31 (like Refsnyder) you're going to take the money, because it's life-changing, even if it's a bad deal. At Rafaela's age I don't think Arroyo is a fair comparison, but it's definitely a good reminder that the team can always trade you, especially if you outplay your contract. Add: on the bright side, Arroyo had nearly 100mil in career earnings, so nobody should feel too sorry for him, he did just fine. My recollection, which is old, was that he wanted to sign here and went against advice to have more negotiations. Not the same but similar to Varitek saying upfront he wanted to stay here. That must have really pissed off Boras.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 18, 2024 8:05:19 GMT -5
Defense is more important than almost anyone on this site gives credit. It is what helps pitchers not only give up fewer runs in the innings of great plays, but also pitch less pitches per inning. You tire your pitching staff less with great defense. The stats don't capture this value effectively. This is why Arias will be worth more than Cespedes and why that should have been obvious much earlier than rankings indicated. Rafaela is a truly Elite CF. Duran has become a great CF. It's clear that we have an embarrassment of riches with these guys for OF purposes. There are 2 separators most of note between Duran and Rafaela -- age and handedness. Duran will be traded, but not likely until after 2025. They have no problem next year, as Anthony won't likely be up until at least halfway through the year. By then, somebody will be injured. That's almost always the case in MLB. OF/DH: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, TON (or sub RHH-power bat here), Ref, Yoshida. We have had no problem playing all this yr because people get hurt. If we could re-sign TON to a 2/25 or 3/30 deal and keep Ref playing one more year, that would be great. If not, we will find our new Duvall/TON/other power hitting-RHH OF. The following year (2026), when Anthony should be ready to play a starting role on the Red Sox, Ref will have retired, and we really will have wanted to shift our DH to a RHH by then (where TON or similar would be the best type of fit because he can rotate into the OF and give more DH ABs to others). So by the start of 2026, we would hopefully have traded Masa for appropriate value (w/ then only 2 yrs left on Yoshida's deal). Our OF/DH "problem" would be that we have: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Anthony + TON(or similar RHH-OF/DH)? That isn't a problem. It takes 5 guys to man those 4 even with just rest, no injuries. The guys who present the "problem" are the current AA bunch in Campbell, Jh Garcia and A Castro + Sikes might turn out to be a good 4th OF Refsnyder type. And wait -- aren't they all -- RHH (or S-Castro)? Yes. Yes they are. So maybe in 2026 Campbell is so good that he forces out the RHH/DH/OF we sign I to a trade deadline deal for pitching help. That's also not a problem. And then he is the Swiss army knife/DH/RH-power hitter. So maybe we just let Ref retire when he wants and we still bring in a RHH/OF bat for until the AA guys force themselves up and we trade our aging LH-DH away. Of course I think the Sox could trade Duran for a legit ace and probably should do that (after 2025 when there actually starts to be greater certainty about other players being true MLB players). But they don't have a pressing need to trade a LHH-OF right now. And they certainly have no need to move Rafaela given his versatility, age fitting in with the other guys coming up and handedness. Does Rafaela need to keep hitting like a contact hitter vs power hitter to learn his craft and be valuable as an MLB player? Yes he does. He should want to produce an OBP of .350+ because he can. And he is most valuable that way. He will still be able to hit 15+ HR per yr while playing GG defense and getting on-base plus tormenting catchers running. I see no problem here. But if they could trade Duran 1:1 for an ace this offseason, I would do it. None of that has anything to do with whether Rafaela should start in CF next year though -- or a 2025 OF logjam (I don't see one). It would just be opportunistically selling a prime aged player high to get a high quality arm in to match our window. Then maybe you keep Yoshida longer or don't, depending on the development of others.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 18, 2024 13:51:15 GMT -5
Defense is more important than almost anyone on this site gives credit. It is what helps pitchers not only give up fewer runs in the innings of great plays, but also pitch less pitches per inning. You tire your pitching staff less with great defense. The stats don't capture this value effectively. This is why Arias will be worth more than Cespedes and why that should have been obvious much earlier than rankings indicated. Rafaela is a truly Elite CF. Duran has become a great CF. It's clear that we have an embarrassment of riches with these guys for OF purposes. There are 2 separators most of note between Duran and Rafaela -- age and handedness. Duran will be traded, but not likely until after 2025. They have no problem next year, as Anthony won't likely be up until at least halfway through the year. By then, somebody will be injured. That's almost always the case in MLB. OF/DH: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, TON (or sub RHH-power bat here), Ref, Yoshida. We have had no problem playing all this yr because people get hurt. If we could re-sign TON to a 2/25 or 3/30 deal and keep Ref playing one more year, that would be great. If not, we will find our new Duvall/TON/other power hitting-RHH OF. The following year (2026), when Anthony should be ready to play a starting role on the Red Sox, Ref will have retired, and we really will have wanted to shift our DH to a RHH by then (where TON or similar would be the best type of fit because he can rotate into the OF and give more DH ABs to others). So by the start of 2026, we would hopefully have traded Masa for appropriate value (w/ then only 2 yrs left on Yoshida's deal). Our OF/DH "problem" would be that we have: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Anthony + TON(or similar RHH-OF/DH)? That isn't a problem. It takes 5 guys to man those 4 even with just rest, no injuries. The guys who present the "problem" are the current AA bunch in Campbell, Jh Garcia and A Castro + Sikes might turn out to be a good 4th OF Refsnyder type. And wait -- aren't they all -- RHH (or S-Castro)? Yes. Yes they are. So maybe in 2026 Campbell is so good that he forces out the RHH/DH/OF we sign I to a trade deadline deal for pitching help. That's also not a problem. And then he is the Swiss army knife/DH/RH-power hitter. So maybe we just let Ref retire when he wants and we still bring in a RHH/OF bat for until the AA guys force themselves up and we trade our aging LH-DH away. Of course I think the Sox could trade Duran for a legit ace and probably should do that (after 2025 when there actually starts to be greater certainty about other players being true MLB players). But they don't have a pressing need to trade a LHH-OF right now. And they certainly have no need to move Rafaela given his versatility, age fitting in with the other guys coming up and handedness. Does Rafaela need to keep hitting like a contact hitter vs power hitter to learn his craft and be valuable as an MLB player? Yes he does. He should want to produce an OBP of .350+ because he can. And he is most valuable that way. He will still be able to hit 15+ HR per yr while playing GG defense and getting on-base plus tormenting catchers running. I see no problem here. But if they could trade Duran 1:1 for an ace this offseason, I would do it. None of that has anything to do with whether Rafaela should start in CF next year though -- or a 2025 OF logjam (I don't see one). It would just be opportunistically selling a prime aged player high to get a high quality arm in to match our window. Then maybe you keep Yoshida longer or don't, depending on the development of others. I agree with most of what you state above with one or two exceptions. I think you overstate how nearly everyone here undervalues defense, perhaps that's true of typical fans and even SOME here but not almost all here. I do agree we will, within the next 2 years or less, trade an outfielder or even two however, who that ends up being I don't think any of us know anything more than at best a slightly educated guess. Also I hope your not suggesting trade Duran simply because of the stupid thing he said. Everyone deserves forgiveness at least once, I know a said things I regret and/or didn't even truly mean especially when I was in my first few decades. I'd never signal virtue. And even if that was not your intent, I'm not sure he alone lands us an ace. I do agree with you, we do need an ace. I think it's easily our biggest priority. This off-season the payroll especially after deferred payments and other associated such cost will be the lowest our payroll has been in a while and well well below the luxury tax threshold. We are still a big market team. We should try and land an ace through free agency as much as through trades, whichever works. Should TON walk then the other big need is a RH power bat.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 18, 2024 15:21:16 GMT -5
Defense is more important than almost anyone on this site gives credit. It is what helps pitchers not only give up fewer runs in the innings of great plays, but also pitch less pitches per inning. You tire your pitching staff less with great defense. The stats don't capture this value effectively. This is why Arias will be worth more than Cespedes and why that should have been obvious much earlier than rankings indicated. Rafaela is a truly Elite CF. Duran has become a great CF. It's clear that we have an embarrassment of riches with these guys for OF purposes. There are 2 separators most of note between Duran and Rafaela -- age and handedness. Duran will be traded, but not likely until after 2025. They have no problem next year, as Anthony won't likely be up until at least halfway through the year. By then, somebody will be injured. That's almost always the case in MLB. OF/DH: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, TON (or sub RHH-power bat here), Ref, Yoshida. We have had no problem playing all this yr because people get hurt. If we could re-sign TON to a 2/25 or 3/30 deal and keep Ref playing one more year, that would be great. If not, we will find our new Duvall/TON/other power hitting-RHH OF. The following year (2026), when Anthony should be ready to play a starting role on the Red Sox, Ref will have retired, and we really will have wanted to shift our DH to a RHH by then (where TON or similar would be the best type of fit because he can rotate into the OF and give more DH ABs to others). So by the start of 2026, we would hopefully have traded Masa for appropriate value (w/ then only 2 yrs left on Yoshida's deal). Our OF/DH "problem" would be that we have: Duran, Rafaela, Abreu, Anthony + TON(or similar RHH-OF/DH)? That isn't a problem. It takes 5 guys to man those 4 even with just rest, no injuries. The guys who present the "problem" are the current AA bunch in Campbell, Jh Garcia and A Castro + Sikes might turn out to be a good 4th OF Refsnyder type. And wait -- aren't they all -- RHH (or S-Castro)? Yes. Yes they are. So maybe in 2026 Campbell is so good that he forces out the RHH/DH/OF we sign I to a trade deadline deal for pitching help. That's also not a problem. And then he is the Swiss army knife/DH/RH-power hitter. So maybe we just let Ref retire when he wants and we still bring in a RHH/OF bat for until the AA guys force themselves up and we trade our aging LH-DH away. Of course I think the Sox could trade Duran for a legit ace and probably should do that (after 2025 when there actually starts to be greater certainty about other players being true MLB players). But they don't have a pressing need to trade a LHH-OF right now. And they certainly have no need to move Rafaela given his versatility, age fitting in with the other guys coming up and handedness. Does Rafaela need to keep hitting like a contact hitter vs power hitter to learn his craft and be valuable as an MLB player? Yes he does. He should want to produce an OBP of .350+ because he can. And he is most valuable that way. He will still be able to hit 15+ HR per yr while playing GG defense and getting on-base plus tormenting catchers running. I see no problem here. But if they could trade Duran 1:1 for an ace this offseason, I would do it. None of that has anything to do with whether Rafaela should start in CF next year though -- or a 2025 OF logjam (I don't see one). It would just be opportunistically selling a prime aged player high to get a high quality arm in to match our window. Then maybe you keep Yoshida longer or don't, depending on the development of others. I agree with most of what you state above with one or two exceptions. I think you overstate how nearly everyone here undervalues defense, perhaps that's true of typical fans and even SOME here but not almost all here. I do agree we will, within the next 2 years or less, trade an outfielder or even two however, who that ends up being I don't think any of us know anything more than at best a slightly educated guess. Also I hope your not suggesting trade Duran simply because of the stupid thing he said. Everyone deserves forgiveness at least once, I know a said things I regret and/or didn't even truly mean especially when I was in my first few decades. I'd never signal virtue. And even if that was not your intent, I'm not sure he alone lands us an ace. I do agree with you, we do need an ace. I think it's easily our biggest priority. This off-season the payroll especially after deferred payments and other associated such cost will be the lowest our payroll has been in a while and well well below the luxury tax threshold. We are still a big market team. We should try and land an ace through free agency as much as through trades, whichever works. Should TON walk then the other big need is a RH power bat. Honestly not sure how you went here? I wrote about age and handedness making Duran more tradable than Rafaela. Said trade Duran if we could get an ace. I am sure you meant well (for real), but if you want people to get 2nd chances, always better to not bring up the offense when it isn't being mentioned (and I hadn't even thought of it while typing my post -- whether I should have or not -- I hadn't).
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pd
Veteran
Posts: 325
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Post by pd on Aug 18, 2024 17:02:48 GMT -5
It fits the general use of the pink hat stories expression, If people object to the expression, I don't give crap. Yes, good story, nice family, which is why I posted it but I had heard most of it before. On the other hand I never knew Andrew Jones was from Curacao. It's not that I object to it, it's that it's the wrong use of the term here I think. Pink hats refer to fair weather fans who only show up when the team is winning and really have no idea what's going on in the game. Band wagon fans if you will. I'm glad you don't give a crap though.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 18, 2024 17:37:48 GMT -5
The term pink hats stories has evolved to being stories about baseball players that are about other than baseball, usually involving player histories outside of baseball and are generally feel good stories.
You're mileage may vary.
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Post by azblue on Aug 19, 2024 9:32:01 GMT -5
The Baltimore Orioles are touting leftfielder Colton Cowser as a clear consensus choice for AL Rookie of the Year, apparently because he leads rookies in home runs and OPS. No mention of any other rookie in the latest promotion piece that I read. Realy? Rafaela leads in virtually every other category and plays stellar defense at two positions.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 19, 2024 10:11:45 GMT -5
The Baltimore Orioles are touting leftfielder Colton Cowser as a clear consensus choice for AL Rookie of the Year, apparently because he leads rookies in home runs and OPS. No mention of any other rookie in the latest promotion piece that I read. Realy? Rafaela leads in virtually every other category and plays stellar defense at two positions. After a bad few games at SS, including high-leverage errors in two different games, he's now at -10 OAA and -8 DRS at SS. I know these stats aren't everything but I don't think it's actually possible to be "stellar" on defense and put up numbers that are as bad (OAA) or worse (DRS) than Kiké's in 2023.
Seems strange to me that Cora is in playoff race mode with his handling of the pitching staff and other managerial decisions but they're still running with this failing experiment at SS; if they need Rafaela in the infield they should be putting him at 2B.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 19, 2024 10:25:40 GMT -5
The Baltimore Orioles are touting leftfielder Colton Cowser as a clear consensus choice for AL Rookie of the Year, apparently because he leads rookies in home runs and OPS. No mention of any other rookie in the latest promotion piece that I read. Realy? Rafaela leads in virtually every other category and plays stellar defense at two positions. After a bad few games at SS, including high-leverage errors in two different games, he's now at -10 OAA and -8 DRS at SS. I know these stats aren't everything but I don't think it's actually possible to be "stellar" on defense and put up numbers that are as bad (OAA) or worse (DRS) than Kiké's in 2023.
Seems strange to me that Cora is in playoff race mode with his handling of the pitching staff and other managerial decisions but they're still running with this failing experiment at SS; if they need Rafaela in the infield they should be putting him at 2B.
People are going to hate this, but yeah, but then again who is playing SS??? If Story actually comes back this year, I can see it making sense to put Story/Rafaela up the middle vs. LHP Otherwise keep him in CF.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 19, 2024 10:40:02 GMT -5
After a bad few games at SS, including high-leverage errors in two different games, he's now at -10 OAA and -8 DRS at SS. I know these stats aren't everything but I don't think it's actually possible to be "stellar" on defense and put up numbers that are as bad (OAA) or worse (DRS) than Kiké's in 2023.
Seems strange to me that Cora is in playoff race mode with his handling of the pitching staff and other managerial decisions but they're still running with this failing experiment at SS; if they need Rafaela in the infield they should be putting him at 2B.
Peoples are going to hate this, but yeah, but then again who is playing SS??? If Story actually comes back this year, I can see it making since to put Story/Rafaela up the middle vs. LHP Otherwise keep him in CF. Hamilton or Romy, just like when Rafaela is in CF. Hamilton's out of position there as well - he's been solidly above average at 2B - but outside of that ugly first week he's been a lot better than Rafaela at SS.
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Post by rickasadoorian on Aug 19, 2024 14:53:46 GMT -5
The Baltimore Orioles are touting leftfielder Colton Cowser as a clear consensus choice for AL Rookie of the Year, apparently because he leads rookies in home runs and OPS. No mention of any other rookie in the latest promotion piece that I read. Realy? Rafaela leads in virtually every other category and plays stellar defense at two positions. According to Fangraphs, Rafaela is 8th in fWAR at 1.0 amongst rookies in the AL. Colton is tied for 1st with Austin Wells at 3.0. Rafeala isn't even close. He's not even first on his own team, behind Abreu (2.5) and Hamilton (1.6). According to bbref, Rafaela's bWAR is 2.2, which is higher than Colton's 2.1. Wells is at 2.4. It'll be interesting what stats the voters are looking at to decide ROY. FWIW, Abreu's bWAR is 2.6 (leads AL positional rookies in bWAR), Hamilton's is 2.5 (2nd place). Unless Rafaela has an amazing finish to the year, I don't see him really being in contention unless voters look at counting stats. Luis Gil and Mason Miller are probably in the discussion too.
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Post by nonothing on Aug 19, 2024 17:41:44 GMT -5
The Baltimore Orioles are touting leftfielder Colton Cowser as a clear consensus choice for AL Rookie of the Year, apparently because he leads rookies in home runs and OPS. No mention of any other rookie in the latest promotion piece that I read. Realy? Rafaela leads in virtually every other category and plays stellar defense at two positions. According to Fangraphs, Rafaela is 8th in fWAR at 1.0 amongst rookies in the AL. Colton is tied for 1st with Austin Wells at 3.0. Rafeala isn't even close. He's not even first on his own team, behind Abreu (2.5) and Hamilton (1.6). According to bbref, Rafaela's bWAR is 2.2, which is higher than Colton's 2.1. Wells is at 2.4. It'll be interesting what stats the voters are looking at to decide ROY. FWIW, Abreu's bWAR is 2.6 (leads AL positional rookies in bWAR), Hamilton's is 2.5 (2nd place). Unless Rafaela has an amazing finish to the year, I don't see him really being in contention unless voters look at counting stats. Luis Gil and Mason Miller are probably in the discussion too. Agree. He shouldn't be rookie of the yr, and his defense at SS isn't very good. He is playing there to help the team, and that makes him valuable, but not the best performing rookie. If he had tried to hit like he did in ST and how he is hitting now back during the 1st half, when instead he was determined to pull every pitch (including balls even outside off the plate) over the wall in left, he might be in the convo. He tried to be a pull-side HR hitter and instead was a liability at the plate. By contrast, Hamilton just tried to stick in the majors, so he did better -- and probably fair to say from less to work with. Maturity matters. This has been a year of maturing for Ceddanne. Great yr, but not ROY material.
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Post by tjb21 on Aug 20, 2024 19:26:17 GMT -5
Something Iâve been thinking about lately: It is interesting to me how differently Rafaela (this yr) and Kiké (last yr) are perceived defensively at SS.
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Post by keninten on Aug 20, 2024 19:36:36 GMT -5
Something IâÂÂve been thinking about lately: It is interesting to me how differently Rafaela (this yr) and Kiké (last yr) are perceived defensively at SS. I thought Kiké looked out of place at SS. Rafaela looks like given the time could be above average at SS.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Aug 20, 2024 19:49:53 GMT -5
Something IâÂÂve been thinking about lately: It is interesting to me how differently Rafaela (this yr) and Kiké (last yr) are perceived defensively at SS. I thought Kiké looked out of place at SS. Rafaela looks like given the time could be above average at SS. Kiké was simply too old to just start playing SS full time. Betts was too (and his SS def stats are bottom rung, at least OAA and FG). It's one reason I'm hoping they install Ceddanne in CF and stop beating him up by moving him back and forth. I also think that while he can make the spectacular play at SS, Ceddanne too often botches the very good play. Let's find a real full-time SS (it's yours to lose, Marcelo) and let Ceddanne fill his trophy room with CF GGs.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Aug 20, 2024 21:42:02 GMT -5
I agree with most of what you state above with one or two exceptions. I think you overstate how nearly everyone here undervalues defense, perhaps that's true of typical fans and even SOME here but not almost all here. I do agree we will, within the next 2 years or less, trade an outfielder or even two however, who that ends up being I don't think any of us know anything more than at best a slightly educated guess. Also I hope your not suggesting trade Duran simply because of the stupid thing he said. Everyone deserves forgiveness at least once, I know a said things I regret and/or didn't even truly mean especially when I was in my first few decades. I'd never signal virtue. And even if that was not your intent, I'm not sure he alone lands us an ace. I do agree with you, we do need an ace. I think it's easily our biggest priority. This off-season the payroll especially after deferred payments and other associated such cost will be the lowest our payroll has been in a while and well well below the luxury tax threshold. We are still a big market team. We should try and land an ace through free agency as much as through trades, whichever works. Should TON walk then the other big need is a RH power bat. Honestly not sure how you went here? I wrote about age and handedness making Duran more tradable than Rafaela. Said trade Duran if we could get an ace. I am sure you meant well (for real), but if you want people to get 2nd chances, always better to not bring up the offense when it isn't being mentioned (and I hadn't even thought of it while typing my post -- whether I should have or not -- I hadn't). More about the timing of what you wrote and that we have other LH hitting outfielders that are tradeable too. Our best positional and most dynamic player is Duran and even then I'm not sure he alone lands you an ace. I think the best way to obtain an ace is via free agency and that we trade our excess to upgrade our positional players. Trade two nickels for nine cents or something along those lines. Maybe we trade one of our positional players for a good pitching prospect as we did this trading deadline. Something to many here are forgetting is that even when the big 4 (5) start to get called up to Boston, most rookies no matter how good they end up eventually take 2 years to break out. All I hope for the first year out of them is something near league average. A saying I like to quote is Ted Williams, 'do not judge a player before 1,000 at bat nor a pitcher until he's had 500 IP. In today's game the pitching part may need to be adjusted down but his point was nearly all players take two years to fully adjust to MLB. I bring this up because our window to truly contend may actually be pushed back some.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Aug 21, 2024 13:58:38 GMT -5
Ceddanne balling today at SS.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Sept 9, 2024 10:27:58 GMT -5
I have been a fan of Rafaela since I saw him on the back fields of Fort Meyers a couple of years ago and the little guy seemed to hit the ball harder than anyone else on the field. When going good, he is fun to watch as he plays with a lot of athleticism and flair. (sort of like the team he plays for). However, at the major league level, he seems to be a flawed player ( again, much like the team he plays for). We all know he swings at too many pitches outside the strike zone. The result is he has an on base percentage of under .300 and a batting average of around .250. I know he plays gold glove centerfield. But miraculously, Duran has also become a very good centerfielder. I am not sure Rafaela's defense is so much better than Duran's that he should be given the starting centerfield job next year. He could improve, but he might not. I would rather use him as a utility player and see O'Neil in let, Duran in center, and Ref/Abreau platoon in right at least until Anthony is ready to take over in right. I don't think the additional defense you get from Rafaela makes up for his limitations at bat, at least not off of what we have seen to date.
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Post by rismith on Sept 9, 2024 13:13:29 GMT -5
Duran at 24 and 25 had worse numbers across the board and far worse defense. Ceddanne has played two of the hardest positions on the diamond and never complained. Other than Mookie, how many players have played so many games at SS and CF in the same year? He is a rookie who has done very well at age 23. I would bet on at least some improvement as he gets more comfortable and develops. I would say areas you want improvement next year are his approach at the plate and possibly his baserunning. Feels like a kid who should steal 20-25 bags and bat .260 with 20 homeruns. Super utility would be fine with those numbers and add a tremendous piece for a manager to have on the team. His production at the 9 hole has really been a plus. Just needs to learn to lay off some pitches and cut down on the swing somewhat.
Agree with you generally but I may be higher on him than most
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