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Red Sox vs. Astros 2021 ALCS Gameday Thread
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Post by semsox on Oct 22, 2021 22:45:58 GMT -5
Crucial difference is our 2021 bullpen did not cost us this series. Predicting bullpen performance at this point seems a folly Eh I disagree, gave up 4 runs in Game 1 which we lost by one, then blew the lead in Game 4. We win Game 1 and it’s a different series altogether, it’s just that our bullpen was useless. Nevermind the Rays series where we blew the 5-0 lead predictably If you thought Game 1 was winnable, than the fault did not lie with the bullpen, but with Cora's management thereof. Game 4 was lost by a home plate umpire and Eovaldi ultimately.If you want to argue that the bullpen's lack of form led to Cora managing the way he did, there may be some validity to that, but the original point of my post was that the bats are ultimately where the blame lies. Given the final score tonight, 99 Pedro could have been starting and it would not have mattered.
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Post by orion09 on Oct 22, 2021 22:46:55 GMT -5
Welll... if you had told the board in March that we would make it to Game 6 of the ALCS, I think we all would have been thrilled.
Thank you gentlemen for a fun season
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 22, 2021 22:49:18 GMT -5
Eh I disagree, gave up 4 runs in Game 1 which we lost by one, then blew the lead in Game 4. We win Game 1 and it’s a different series altogether, it’s just that our bullpen was useless. Nevermind the Rays series where we blew the 5-0 lead predictably can't win when the team hits .110 and 0 for infinity with RISP no matter what the pitching. Poor hitting puts enormous pressure on the pitchers. For me, the offense needs to be fixed - particularly situational hitting, scoring without hitting home runs. Hitting wasn’t great, but it’s also pressure on the hitters when our bullpen can’t handle any lead under 4 runs. We didn’t win a single game in 9 innings this post season with less than a 5 run lead, that’s crazy. Game 1 and Game 4 were the difference. Our hitting approach definitely needs work, so maybe they go after a Starling Marte? I will say remember 2013, that offense was terrible in the ALCS and World Series. Like totally awful and got two key grand slams in Game 2 and 6 and the solo HR from Napoli off Verlander in Game 3. The World Series was basically Ortiz with one big hit from Gomes. This team could never win a 1-0 game which really limits our win conditions.
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 22:52:31 GMT -5
Next year we need to see more consistency - too many times the offense just completely shut off. I get every offense goes through cold streaks but the lows were absolutely unbelievable given some of our star bats, at times unwatchable (The last few games). I noticed when Xander was cold the offense seemed to follow along with him...
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2021 22:53:36 GMT -5
Eh I disagree, gave up 4 runs in Game 1 which we lost by one, then blew the lead in Game 4. We win Game 1 and it’s a different series altogether, it’s just that our bullpen was useless. Nevermind the Rays series where we blew the 5-0 lead predictably can't win when the team hits .110 and 0 for infinity with RISP no matter what the pitching. Poor hitting puts enormous pressure on the pitchers. For me, the offense needs to be fixed - particularly situational hitting, scoring without hitting home runs. This team's offense was such an all or nothing at all season. Sure it averages out nicely, but my God, how does a team go from scoring 27 runs in 27 innings to scoring just once in 26 innings? I don't know how you fix situational hitting. This team just had a lot of stretches where it was brutal. I know their pen needs some serious fixing. The defense was poor too many times too. It's like as soon as Greinke exited the offense died. Cristian Javier snuffed them, Laz Diaz screwed them at the worst time and they failed to get the final out of the 9th when they needed to. Maybe the Sox would have lost in extra innings anyways but I would have loved to have seen what would have happened if Game 4 was tied 2-2 in the last of the 9th with the crowd at Fenway screaming. That turned the series for good. The momentum built and the Sox never stopped Houston's momentum.
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 22:54:08 GMT -5
This just makes you appreciate 2018 even more, what a juggernaut that team was.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 22, 2021 22:55:04 GMT -5
can't win when the team hits .110 and 0 for infinity with RISP no matter what the pitching. Poor hitting puts enormous pressure on the pitchers. For me, the offense needs to be fixed - particularly situational hitting, scoring without hitting home runs. Hitting wasn’t great, but it’s also pressure on the hitters when our bullpen can’t handle any lead under 4 runs. We didn’t win a single game in 9 innings this post season with less than a 5 run lead, that’s crazy. Game 1 and Game 4 were the difference. Our hitting approach definitely needs work, so maybe they go after a Starling Marte? I will say remember 2013, that offense was terrible in the ALCS and World Series. Like totally awful and got two key grand slams in Game 2 and 6 and the solo HR from Napoli off Verlander in Game 3. The World Series was basically Ortiz with one big hit from Gomes. This team could never win a 1-0 game which really limits our win conditions. Your kidding right? You realize we were no hit for like the first 3 inning each of the last three games. That offensive ineptitude puts pressure on the SP to be perfect.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 22, 2021 22:57:47 GMT -5
Better season than I ever thought in March they’d have!
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 22, 2021 22:57:57 GMT -5
Eh I disagree, gave up 4 runs in Game 1 which we lost by one, then blew the lead in Game 4. We win Game 1 and it’s a different series altogether, it’s just that our bullpen was useless. Nevermind the Rays series where we blew the 5-0 lead predictably If you thought Game 1 was winnable, than the fault did not lie with the bullpen, but with Cora's management thereof. Game 4 was lost by a home plate umpire and Eovaldi ultimately.If you want to argue that the bullpen's lack of form led to Cora managing the way he did, there may be some validity to that, but the original point of my post was that the bats are ultimately where the blame lies. Given the final score tonight, 99 Pedro could have been starting and it would not have mattered. Houck and Robles both shit the bed in that game, but Cora definitely threw in the towel in the 8th of that game with Sawamura, which was totally dumb. Other than that, it was playing minesweeper. This was the worst bullpen of any playoff team we’ve had since 2005 where only Papelbon was competent. The bats definitely didn’t help, but sometimes you have to win pitcher’s duels to win in the playoffs and we just weren’t equipped for that. 2013 ALCS Game 3, 2004 ALCS Game 6, 2008 ALCS Game 6 and Game 7. My only point is that there has to be more than one way to win, not saying the offense didn’t totally suck in the last 3 games which it did (and still couldn’t score off any of the relievers)
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 22, 2021 22:59:37 GMT -5
Hitting wasn’t great, but it’s also pressure on the hitters when our bullpen can’t handle any lead under 4 runs. We didn’t win a single game in 9 innings this post season with less than a 5 run lead, that’s crazy. Game 1 and Game 4 were the difference. Our hitting approach definitely needs work, so maybe they go after a Starling Marte? I will say remember 2013, that offense was terrible in the ALCS and World Series. Like totally awful and got two key grand slams in Game 2 and 6 and the solo HR from Napoli off Verlander in Game 3. The World Series was basically Ortiz with one big hit from Gomes. This team could never win a 1-0 game which really limits our win conditions. Your kidding right? You realize we were no hit for like the first 3 inning each of the last three games. That offensive ineptitude puts pressure on the SP to be perfect. That’s why we lost the last 3 games, but we could have also swept the series with a competent bullpen, it’s just baseball in the end. We gave them an opening and our bats went into a coma and our SP was great basically every single game, so they did their part all 6 games
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2021 23:02:03 GMT -5
Hitting wasn’t great, but it’s also pressure on the hitters when our bullpen can’t handle any lead under 4 runs. We didn’t win a single game in 9 innings this post season with less than a 5 run lead, that’s crazy. Game 1 and Game 4 were the difference. Our hitting approach definitely needs work, so maybe they go after a Starling Marte? I will say remember 2013, that offense was terrible in the ALCS and World Series. Like totally awful and got two key grand slams in Game 2 and 6 and the solo HR from Napoli off Verlander in Game 3. The World Series was basically Ortiz with one big hit from Gomes. This team could never win a 1-0 game which really limits our win conditions. Your kidding right? You realize we were no hit for like the first 3 inning each of the last three games. That offensive ineptitude puts pressure on the SP to be perfect. Not following. The bullpen lost leads in game 1 and game 4 which could have given them the 2 other wins they needed, and they gave up a bunch of runs in Game 5 and 6 as well. They were a part of the problem. The offense was fatal, but it might not have come to that had the pen held leads in Games 1 and 4. But the series kept going and the offense blew their wad after the 1st inning of game 4, rolled over, and went to sleep for the winter.
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Post by kjkramer on Oct 22, 2021 23:02:09 GMT -5
🥵
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Post by lostinnewjersey on Oct 22, 2021 23:03:27 GMT -5
I don't blame the hitters, or Cora, or anybody. The other team was trying to win too. The Astros happened to get stellar starting pitching performances when they needed them, they caught a break when Diaz blew a call, and their bullpen was just better than ours. No disgrace to lose this series, though it's annoying to see confessed cheaters celebrate.
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Post by foreverred9 on Oct 22, 2021 23:06:29 GMT -5
This conversation is like trying to pick between a Douche and a Turd - they all contributed significantly to why our next game is in 2022.
Offense, defense, bullpen, and Cora's management of the bullpen in no particular order.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 22, 2021 23:07:29 GMT -5
Bottom line, what a fantastic year for Red Sox fans.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 22, 2021 23:14:15 GMT -5
Awful last 3 games but it doesn’t take away from the fact that this team wildly overachieved and eliminated both the Yankees and Rays to emerge the victors of the AL Beast. Proud of what they accomplished this year, I think I had them as 83-79
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2021 23:14:45 GMT -5
I know teams that win 100 or even 107 games get knocked out in the postseason tournament.
But for the Sox to win the World Series it seems to me they have to be the best team.
This team has never caught lightning in a bottle and upset every team along the way. At some point, with all these layers of playoffs, its really hard for the Sox to win without their flaws getting in the way.
In this case their bipolar offense reared its ugly head, the bullpen was terrible, and the defense made costly mistakes and it made it so they couldn't win.
The 2004 team won 98 games and should have won 101 games. The 2007 team won 96 games tying Cleveland for the look head and were far superior to Colorado. The 2013 team won 97 leading the league and tied with St. Louis for the major league lead. And the 2018 Red Sox won 108. Nuff said.
But this team won 92 and should have won 88. So it's hardly a juggernaut. They were able to upset NY (the betting line had NYY), upset TB, but wasn't able to upset Houston even though it looked like as possibility. Guess the magic runs out after awhile when they're not as good.
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Post by reasonabledoubt on Oct 22, 2021 23:17:05 GMT -5
I don't blame the hitters, or Cora, or anybody. The other team was trying to win too. The Astros happened to get stellar starting pitching performances when they needed them, they caught a break when Diaz blew a call, and their bullpen was just better than ours. No disgrace to lose this series, though it's annoying to see confessed cheaters celebrate. Yes - while the major focus on here has been the Red Sox deficiencies these last 3 games, the plain truth was the Astros outstanding pitching was the difference. That was the reason the Red Sox didn't hit or score or really seriously threaten. Valdez and Garcia were outstanding, Javier too and the rest of their bullpen locked it down. The Astros were a lot better than the Red Sox in the games played in the regular season, and really a lot better in the ALCS. Without Altuve's bungled sure double plays, how many games does this series go? I know it is tough to accept when you can't stand the other side. But once you come to terms with this, it becomes a lot easier.
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Post by manfred on Oct 22, 2021 23:27:38 GMT -5
This conversation is like trying to pick between a Douche and a Turd - they all contributed significantly to why our next game is in 2022. Offense, defense, bullpen, and Cora's management of the bullpen in no particular order. (Turd, please)
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 23:28:50 GMT -5
I know teams that win 100 or even 107 games get knocked out in the postseason tournament. But for the Sox to win the World Series it seems to me they have to be the best team. This team has never caught lightning in a bottle and upset every team along the way. At some point, with all these layers of playoffs, its really hard for the Sox to win without their flaws getting in the way. In this case their bipolar offense reared its ugly head, the bullpen was terrible, and the defense made costly mistakes and it made it so they couldn't win. The 2004 team won 98 games and should have won 101 games. The 2007 team won 96 games tying Cleveland for the look head and were far superior to Colorado. The 2013 team won 97 leading the league and tied with St. Louis for the major league lead. And the 2018 Red Sox won 108. Nuff said. But this team won 92 and should have won 88. So it's hardly a juggernaut. They were able to upset NY (the betting line had NYY), upset TB, but wasn't able to upset Houston even though it looked like as possibility. Guess the magic runs out after awhile when they're not as good. Usually the teams who make a run (Who aren't Juggernauts) and ultimately win the World Series are the ones with good pitching, rather than offense, I feel. 2019 Nats, 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants, 2003 Marlins are a few I can name off the top of my head. It's really difficult to go an entire postseason relying just on your offense - this team didn't have enough quality arms to go to on a consistent basis. Offense fell flat too which was something that happened a lot this season, the cold streaks were unbelievable.
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 22, 2021 23:29:12 GMT -5
I don't blame the hitters, or Cora, or anybody. The other team was trying to win too. The Astros happened to get stellar starting pitching performances when they needed them, they caught a break when Diaz blew a call, and their bullpen was just better than ours. No disgrace to lose this series, though it's annoying to see confessed cheaters celebrate. Yes - while the major focus on here has been the Red Sox deficiencies these last 3 games, the plain truth was the Astros outstanding pitching was the difference. That was the reason the Red Sox didn't hit or score or really seriously threaten. Valdez and Garcia were outstanding, Javier too and the rest of their bullpen locked it down. The Astros were a lot better than the Red Sox in the games played in the regular season, and really a lot better in the ALCS. Without Altuve's bungled sure double plays, how many games does this series go? I know it is tough to accept when you can't stand the other side. But once you come to terms with this, it becomes a lot easier. We should also be really excited about the future. Feltman re-emerged this season and he will almost definitely be up mid season. Casas, Downs, Yorke are all strong prospects and Duran got a valuable cup of coffee that should benefit him going forward. I just wish Dalbec could have played over Renfroe the past few games just to see what was possible. He was the only X-factor not in play
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2021 23:31:52 GMT -5
Ironically the postseason began with a 5-0 loss and ended with a 5-0 loss.
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 22, 2021 23:32:07 GMT -5
I know teams that win 100 or even 107 games get knocked out in the postseason tournament. But for the Sox to win the World Series it seems to me they have to be the best team. This team has never caught lightning in a bottle and upset every team along the way. At some point, with all these layers of playoffs, its really hard for the Sox to win without their flaws getting in the way. In this case their bipolar offense reared its ugly head, the bullpen was terrible, and the defense made costly mistakes and it made it so they couldn't win. The 2004 team won 98 games and should have won 101 games. The 2007 team won 96 games tying Cleveland for the look head and were far superior to Colorado. The 2013 team won 97 leading the league and tied with St. Louis for the major league lead. And the 2018 Red Sox won 108. Nuff said. But this team won 92 and should have won 88. So it's hardly a juggernaut. They were able to upset NY (the betting line had NYY), upset TB, but wasn't able to upset Houston even though it looked like as possibility. Guess the magic runs out after awhile when they're not as good. Usually the teams who make a run (Who aren't Juggernauts) and ultimately win the World Series are the ones with good pitching, rather than offense, I feel. 2019 Nats, 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants, 2003 Marlins are a few I can name off the top of my head. It's really difficult to go an entire postseason relying just on your offense - this team didn't have enough quality arms to go to on a consistent basis. Offense fell flat too which was something that happened a lot this season, the cold streaks were unbelievable. Someone will always need to explain the 2006 Cardinals to me. I guess they had hall of famers on that team, but holy crap that team was insanely lucky. Jeff Weaver, Scott Spiezio, David Eckstein totally crazy to me. I was hoping for a little bit of that. This Braves team is like that, they totally suck, but they could make it because the Dodgers are on fumes
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Post by lostinnewjersey on Oct 22, 2021 23:34:40 GMT -5
In this case their bipolar offense reared its ugly head, the bullpen was terrible, and the defense made costly mistakes and it made it so they couldn't win. Yes, I would say a better defense should be a high priority for 2022.
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Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 23:36:23 GMT -5
Keep building up the farm system and accumulate as much pitching depth as possible, give Cora the options and let him do his thing...Another thing that absolutely needs to be addressed is the defense, it was unwatchable at times.
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