SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Red Sox vs. Astros 2021 ALCS Gameday Thread
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2021 23:38:41 GMT -5
Usually the teams who make a run (Who aren't Juggernauts) and ultimately win the World Series are the ones with good pitching, rather than offense, I feel. 2019 Nats, 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants, 2003 Marlins are a few I can name off the top of my head. It's really difficult to go an entire postseason relying just on your offense - this team didn't have enough quality arms to go to on a consistent basis. Offense fell flat too which was something that happened a lot this season, the cold streaks were unbelievable. Someone will always need to explain the 2006 Cardinals to me. I guess they had hall of famers on that team, but holy crap that team was insanely lucky. Jeff Weaver, Scott Spiezio, David Eckstein totally crazy to me. I was hoping for a little bit of that. This Braves team is like that, they totally suck, but they could make it because the Dodgers are on fumes Exactly. I've never seen a Sox team that wasn't the class of the league go on a run like the 06 or even 11 Cardinals went on. Hell the Giants won 3 championships in 5 years and were hardly juggernauts. Maybe it is having great pitching and just enough timely hitting. I dont know. Hopefully Bloom builds a team that wins 95 plus every year the way Theo's teams did awhile back. That seem to be the only way the Sox can win. Just be better built than everybody else and hope nothing too fluky happens in a postseason over 3 levels of playoffs.
|
|
|
Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 23:40:26 GMT -5
Usually the teams who make a run (Who aren't Juggernauts) and ultimately win the World Series are the ones with good pitching, rather than offense, I feel. 2019 Nats, 2011 Cardinals, 2010 Giants, 2003 Marlins are a few I can name off the top of my head. It's really difficult to go an entire postseason relying just on your offense - this team didn't have enough quality arms to go to on a consistent basis. Offense fell flat too which was something that happened a lot this season, the cold streaks were unbelievable. Someone will always need to explain the 2006 Cardinals to me. I guess they had hall of famers on that team, but holy crap that team was insanely lucky. Jeff Weaver, Scott Spiezio, David Eckstein totally crazy to me. I was hoping for a little bit of that. This Braves team is like that, they totally suck, but they could make it because the Dodgers are on fumes That's why Mets fans still talk about 2006...
|
|
|
Post by reasonabledoubt on Oct 22, 2021 23:41:14 GMT -5
Yes - while the major focus on here has been the Red Sox deficiencies these last 3 games, the plain truth was the Astros outstanding pitching was the difference. That was the reason the Red Sox didn't hit or score or really seriously threaten. Valdez and Garcia were outstanding, Javier too and the rest of their bullpen locked it down. The Astros were a lot better than the Red Sox in the games played in the regular season, and really a lot better in the ALCS. Without Altuve's bungled sure double plays, how many games does this series go? I know it is tough to accept when you can't stand the other side. But once you come to terms with this, it becomes a lot easier. We should also be really excited about the future. Feltman re-emerged this season and he will almost definitely be up mid season. Casas, Downs, Yorke are all strong prospects and Duran got a valuable cup of coffee that should benefit him going forward. I just wish Dalbec could have played over Renfroe the past few games just to see what was possible. He was the only X-factor not in play The future IS bright. And yet we could be a better team in 2022 and easily not make it as far. The pressure is really going to be on Bloom to meet or beat everyone's heightened expectations. It will be a really interesting off season watching what he does.
|
|
|
Post by benzinger on Oct 22, 2021 23:42:51 GMT -5
Was that a Danny Santana sighting again tonight?
When did the pinch running specialist turn into the featured pinch-hitter?
|
|
|
Post by curtisw on Oct 22, 2021 23:45:55 GMT -5
I honestly don’t have much to say at the moment other than I am super grateful for this year’s club. I think on the whole they gave us a ton to be proud of and celebrate. They overachieved in a very inspiring, gutsy way that moved me. I’ll remember this iteration of the club very fondly, even though as has been pointed out tonight the lows were quite bleak.
But the highs, they were very high. When this squad played up to their full potential (and some would say beyond even that) they were a true joy to watch. And all year there seemed to be a level of camaraderie and trust in each other I found to be very admirable. They always believed they were capable of big things, and worked hard to achieve it, even during the rough stretches. They did just enough to scrap and stay in it to earn their spot. And they had a fun October all in all I would say.
This team is to me really beautiful, feel lucky to have watched them play baseball, and I also find myself feeling lucky that baseball exists, where a team can fill you with all of these emotions, pride, joy, heartbreak, etc, all in the space of a single year or even game. This is the opening of our window it seems and there’s good times in our future I think. Looking forward to a fascinating offseason, but I’ll miss some of these guys for sure.
At the moment I’m pretty crushed.
|
|
|
Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 22, 2021 23:52:03 GMT -5
Someone will always need to explain the 2006 Cardinals to me. I guess they had hall of famers on that team, but holy crap that team was insanely lucky. Jeff Weaver, Scott Spiezio, David Eckstein totally crazy to me. I was hoping for a little bit of that. This Braves team is like that, they totally suck, but they could make it because the Dodgers are on fumes Exactly. I've never seen a Sox team that wasn't the class of the league go on a run like the 06 or even 11 Cardinals went on. Hell the Giants won 3 championships in 5 years and were hardly juggernauts. Maybe it is having great pitching and just enough timely hitting. I dont know. Hopefully Bloom builds a team that wins 95 plus every year the way Theo's teams did awhile back. That seem to be the only way the Sox can win. Just be better built than everybody else and hope nothing too fluky happens in a postseason over 3 levels of playoffs. I feel like Blooms "Team" wont be here until 2023-2024-2025, but they will be juggernauts. The young core is going to be fun to watch - this offseason will be interesting to see if they sell high on anyone (Renfroe for example)....They can be a World Series team next year depending on what kind of pitching depth they acquire and hopefully steps forward from guys like Houck & Whitlock if they move into the rotation. I'd try and target a guy like Raisel Iglesias for the bullpen among some other names as well...
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,793
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Oct 23, 2021 0:01:04 GMT -5
Fun year still
|
|
|
Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 23, 2021 0:02:06 GMT -5
Also, yes the offense went completely silent but Garcia & Valdez were absolutely filthy in games 5+6. Tip your cap to them too...
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2021 0:04:42 GMT -5
Exactly. I've never seen a Sox team that wasn't the class of the league go on a run like the 06 or even 11 Cardinals went on. Hell the Giants won 3 championships in 5 years and were hardly juggernauts. Maybe it is having great pitching and just enough timely hitting. I dont know. Hopefully Bloom builds a team that wins 95 plus every year the way Theo's teams did awhile back. That seem to be the only way the Sox can win. Just be better built than everybody else and hope nothing too fluky happens in a postseason over 3 levels of playoffs. I feel like Blooms "Team" wont be here until 2023-2024-2025, but they will be juggernauts. The young core is going to be fun to watch - this offseason will be interesting to see if they sell high on anyone (Renfroe for example)....They can be a World Series team next year depending on what kind of pitching depth they acquire and hopefully steps forward from guys like Houck & Whitlock if they move into the rotation. I'd try and target a guy like Raisel Iglesias for the bullpen among some other names as well... Who will be left in 2025? I feel like when people say that this team will be good in 2025, it is almost the same as saying 2055. Let’s say there is no Sale, no Eovaldi, maybe no X, maybe no Devers, no JDM, no CVaz… that team could look like *anything.* So yes it could be great. But it could suck, too. It’ll be unrecognizable, one way or the other.
|
|
|
Post by taiwansox on Oct 23, 2021 0:04:59 GMT -5
Someone will always need to explain the 2006 Cardinals to me. I guess they had hall of famers on that team, but holy crap that team was insanely lucky. Jeff Weaver, Scott Spiezio, David Eckstein totally crazy to me. I was hoping for a little bit of that. This Braves team is like that, they totally suck, but they could make it because the Dodgers are on fumes That's why Mets fans still talk about 2006... We did sweep them at Fenway that year!
|
|
|
Post by taiwansox on Oct 23, 2021 0:07:06 GMT -5
Top free agent targets for us? Starling Marte? Castellanos/Schwarber? Any decent reliever lol
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 23, 2021 0:13:50 GMT -5
Exactly. I've never seen a Sox team that wasn't the class of the league go on a run like the 06 or even 11 Cardinals went on. Hell the Giants won 3 championships in 5 years and were hardly juggernauts. Maybe it is having great pitching and just enough timely hitting. I dont know. Hopefully Bloom builds a team that wins 95 plus every year the way Theo's teams did awhile back. That seem to be the only way the Sox can win. Just be better built than everybody else and hope nothing too fluky happens in a postseason over 3 levels of playoffs. I feel like Blooms "Team" wont be here until 2023-2024-2025, but they will be juggernauts. The young core is going to be fun to watch - this offseason will be interesting to see if they sell high on anyone (Renfroe for example)....They can be a World Series team next year depending on what kind of pitching depth they acquire and hopefully steps forward from guys like Houck & Whitlock if they move into the rotation. I'd try and target a guy like Raisel Iglesias for the bullpen among some other names as well... I kind of feel that way too, like Bloom is building toward then, to a point where the minor league talent will be thicker than it is now, as improved, as it has been. There will be some astute trades and signings. I suspect Casas, Yorke, and Mayer along with X or Devers ir whoever will be the most exciting young infield since this year's Blue Jays and the pitching depth will be built up thicker. I think the Sox FO thought they built a team to win 86 games that could surprise, make the playoffs if they exceeded 86 wins and make some noise in the playoffs. They did, but I'd think his goal is to win 95 annually and hope to make the playoffs from a position of strength often enough that sooner or later they win a championship. Dont know that 2022 the Sox from top to bottom are where Bloom wants the organization quite yet but that hes taking a long term approach over the next few years to reach a sustainable annual contender.
|
|
|
Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 23, 2021 0:16:19 GMT -5
I feel like Blooms "Team" wont be here until 2023-2024-2025, but they will be juggernauts. The young core is going to be fun to watch - this offseason will be interesting to see if they sell high on anyone (Renfroe for example)....They can be a World Series team next year depending on what kind of pitching depth they acquire and hopefully steps forward from guys like Houck & Whitlock if they move into the rotation. I'd try and target a guy like Raisel Iglesias for the bullpen among some other names as well... Who will be left in 2025? I feel like when people say that this team will be good in 2025, it is almost the same as saying 2055. Let’s say there is no Sale, no Eovaldi, maybe no X, maybe no Devers, no JDM, no CVaz… that team could look like *anything.* So yes it could be great. But it could suck, too. It’ll be unrecognizable, one way or the other. You'll hopefully have guys like Casas, Yorke, Mayer, Blaze, Downs, etc making not too much money with prime Devers (27-28) leading the offense. Obviously not everyone of our prospects is going to be a superstar but Bloom can shape the team the way he wants and spend some money on pitching and being aggressive on the trade market.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 23, 2021 0:18:48 GMT -5
I feel like Blooms "Team" wont be here until 2023-2024-2025, but they will be juggernauts. The young core is going to be fun to watch - this offseason will be interesting to see if they sell high on anyone (Renfroe for example)....They can be a World Series team next year depending on what kind of pitching depth they acquire and hopefully steps forward from guys like Houck & Whitlock if they move into the rotation. I'd try and target a guy like Raisel Iglesias for the bullpen among some other names as well... Who will be left in 2025? I feel like when people say that this team will be good in 2025, it is almost the same as saying 2055. Let’s say there is no Sale, no Eovaldi, maybe no X, maybe no Devers, no JDM, no CVaz… that team could look like *anything.* So yes it could be great. But it could suck, too. It’ll be unrecognizable, one way or the other. Manfred, there will be guys we never anticipated. I mean, in 2020 did you have Garrett Whitlock penciled in as one of the building blocks going forward? No. There will be additions along the way. You can envision 3/4 of a strong hitting infield that may also include an extended Devers. I've seen enough of Bloom to believe that he can build a deep organization from top to bottom. I just think it will take him a few years to get them where he wants them to go. Maybe its 2024 or 2026, but I think he'd working on his long term vision and its obvious he can build a competitive team in the meanwhile without mortgaging the future.
|
|
|
Post by saltalamacchia4mvp on Oct 23, 2021 0:23:32 GMT -5
We won 92 games and went further than the Giants who won 107 (1 less than our 2018). Be grateful knowing this is just the beginning because we have the right people running the organization at the top. It's going to be an interesting offseason and plenty to discuss. Goodnight all, go Sox!
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,770
|
Post by mobaz on Oct 23, 2021 4:58:00 GMT -5
I can't remember seeing a team go from dominant to hopeless so fast! It was a fun season overall and I'm grateful for how far they went, but the yo-yo was a lot. After the Rays series and especially after Astros game 3 I truly thought this was a team of destiny, like 2013 where we pull it out no matter the odds. After game 4 I rememebed how much of a slog the summer was, and worried it would go exactly as it did.
It was a good season. I am mostly happy. The future on the field, in the minors, and coach/FO are bright. But my poor heart!
|
|
|
Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 23, 2021 6:32:57 GMT -5
Also, yes the offense went completely silent but Garcia & Valdez were absolutely filthy in games 5+6. Tip your cap to them too... Qu'elle suprise ...... it was dominant starting pitching that decided the series rather than pitching by the herd. Traditional baseball is not yet dead.
|
|
|
Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 23, 2021 6:56:07 GMT -5
I can't remember seeing a team go from dominant to hopeless so fast! It was a fun season overall and I'm grateful for how far they went, but the yo-yo was a lot. After the Rays series and especially after Astros game 3 I truly thought this was a team of destiny, like 2013 where we pull it out no matter the odds. After game 4 I rememebed how much of a slog the summer was, and worried it would go exactly as it did. It was a good season. I am mostly happy. The future on the field, in the minors, and coach/FO are bright. But my poor heart! Its really crazy how a team can fall off a cliff so fast. Garcia was lights out last night. Valdez...well we kind of have been able to figure out why he was so dominant. Temple, liquid, baseball, repeat. The season was above expectations but I'm just hoping 24 months from now this team still has Xander and Devers on it.
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Oct 23, 2021 8:55:27 GMT -5
I don't think anyone thought we'd be playing deep into October. So, we had a fun game against the MFY's. A great series against the Rays that nobody thought we could beat. A couple of big games against the Astros. I think that's a lot more than we expected. In other words, it was a fun and interesting season. Disappointed? Of course, but grateful to a team of fun guys.
The best thing is a whole offseason shoving it to all our Yankee friends.
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 23, 2021 9:11:44 GMT -5
Yeah our bench was awful, Danny Santana and Travis Shaw were getting meaningful at bats in big moments.
For whatever reason, this team was also absolutely terrible getting runners in from 2nd or 3rd with no outs or one out, ive never seen a Red Sox team that was so slow or incapable of even getting a sacrifice fly.
|
|
bigmarty58
Rookie
2011 Pancreatic Cancer Survivor - One of the lucky ones
Posts: 162
|
Post by bigmarty58 on Oct 23, 2021 9:13:48 GMT -5
With low expectations this season was quite fun. The future's looking bright with excellent leadership from CB. Let's hope management and the players can come up with a labor agreement and continue with our teams bright future next season. Go Sox!
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2021 9:18:22 GMT -5
Who will be left in 2025? I feel like when people say that this team will be good in 2025, it is almost the same as saying 2055. Let’s say there is no Sale, no Eovaldi, maybe no X, maybe no Devers, no JDM, no CVaz… that team could look like *anything.* So yes it could be great. But it could suck, too. It’ll be unrecognizable, one way or the other. Manfred, there will be guys we never anticipated. I mean, in 2020 did you have Garrett Whitlock penciled in as one of the building blocks going forward? No. There will be additions along the way. You can envision 3/4 of a strong hitting infield that may also include an extended Devers. I've seen enough of Bloom to believe that he can build a deep organization from top to bottom. I just think it will take him a few years to get them where he wants them to go. Maybe its 2024 or 2026, but I think he'd working on his long term vision and its obvious he can build a competitive team in the meanwhile without mortgaging the future. That’s fine. But saying there will “be guys” is not great support for saying they will be a “juggernaut.” That is faith, not reason.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 23, 2021 9:59:19 GMT -5
Manfred, there will be guys we never anticipated. I mean, in 2020 did you have Garrett Whitlock penciled in as one of the building blocks going forward? No. There will be additions along the way. You can envision 3/4 of a strong hitting infield that may also include an extended Devers. I've seen enough of Bloom to believe that he can build a deep organization from top to bottom. I just think it will take him a few years to get them where he wants them to go. Maybe its 2024 or 2026, but I think he'd working on his long term vision and its obvious he can build a competitive team in the meanwhile without mortgaging the future. That’s fine. But saying there will “be guys” is not great support for saying they will be a “juggernaut.” That is faith, not reason. Who said anything about a juggernaut? His goal isnt to put together a 108 win team. It's to build a 95 win team that can be a 95 win team for an extended period. I think Bloom has given me enough reason to have faith in him that he will teach his goals over a period of time. It's not blind faith. I just watched a team that most pundits, myself included, expected to be around .500 win 92 games and make some noise in the playoffs as the minor league system took a big leap forward. That's great progress for one year and while I expect a plateau here or there I've seen enough to think there's a longterm plan in place that can work to make this team an annual contender that doesn't have to play over their heads to go far into the playoffs.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Oct 23, 2021 10:09:30 GMT -5
That’s fine. But saying there will “be guys” is not great support for saying they will be a “juggernaut.” That is faith, not reason. Who said anything about a juggernaut? His goal isnt to put together a 108 win team. It's to build a 95 win team that can be a 95 win team for an extended period. I think Bloom has given me enough reason to have faith in him that he will teach his goals over a period of time. It's not blind faith. I just watched a team that most pundits, myself included, expected to be around .500 win 92 games and make some noise in the playoffs as the minor league system took a big leap forward. That's great progress for one year and while I expect a plateau here or there I've seen enough to think there's a longterm plan in place that can work to make this team an annual contender that doesn't have to play over their heads to go far into the playoffs. You responded to me responding to a post saying they’d be “juggernauts.” So you were jumping in on that side. That was why I used quotation marks. I did not use the word blind, but if you want to qualify “faith,” ok. The point is, in 2025 we could have *none* of the current rotation. Who on this team do we know will still be here? And I am not banking on the next core coming internally. Our system is better than it has been for five years, and there are a few guys who look bankable (some further away like Yorke and Mayer). But we got looks at #4 and #8 this year, and there are huge questions. I’m not saying we won’t be a 110-win team in 2025. I am saying that we can say this team overachieved — but we can also say having such a thin bench, missing on Franchy (making Renfroe an everyday player), etc. ended up costing them a good chance against the Astros. I would rather see if they can get to the rings next year while they still have X, Eovaldi, Sale, Devers, etc than say “we’re building for a great team when we have, you know, guys.”
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Oct 23, 2021 10:23:12 GMT -5
Playoffs sort of represented the season in a way. We did better than anybody predicted, but the lows were so miserable that it was often hard to look on the bright side. It felt like the Red Sea was parting for us to win a championship for a minute there, so it's disappointing to crash back to reality. But I think we all know that we would have been getting away with one had the Sox actually pulled it off. Perfectly said.
|
|
|