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What 2021-22 Free Agents Do You Want
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 27, 2021 7:57:45 GMT -5
They're not trading Sale. It's a non-starter. I'm pretty sure the Sox are of the opinion that he still has gas left in the tank and that the further he is away from TJ surgery the better he'll be. They're counting on him to be toward the top of the rotation in 2022. They're not trading him. I dont think they could even if they wanted to without his permission as he is now a 10-5 guy I believe and cannot be traded without his consent. And they're certainly not going to clog up a roster spot and spend a ton of money to do so. They dont need a LH 1b like Hosmer on their roster and short of a Wander Franco talent coming back they're not remotely interested in that kind of deal. Gore is an excellent prospect but he struggled in 2021. The Sox expect to contend in 2022. Sale will be a part of that. Ohh you could be right about his 10/5 rights kicking in right now. His 2020 season was lost but I think it still counts as service time. I didn't take account for that. So yeah his 10/5 rights would kick in this off-season. So the scenario of trading Sale this off-season is probably not going to happen. I wouldn't have said never with Bloom if the option was more available, though. My apologies on the mishap and miscalculation y'all. I will add that the Hosmer idea has been brought up by others on here and some were for it depending on the package and others including myself wanted no part of it so that aspect of the post isn't crazy. The whole sale part was what made me scratch my head but as a few others have said welcome to the board and please keep posting if you enjoy it as I find this to be a great board for sox fans.
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 27, 2021 8:25:02 GMT -5
I know Chris Taylor has been talked about..and someone pointed out thatâs kinda like Kiké Hernandez part 2â¦.but it might be interesting because of Hernandez. Hernandez as it turned out was a valuable center fielder. A full season in center probably raises the defensive value of the team. Taylor plays everywhere but Iâve read is actually pretty good at 2nd, kinda of a reverse Kiké. So defensively you improve at 2 positions (as you allow them to mainly play center and 2nd). Hernandez and Taylor can cover almost any other position in case of injury of course, and thatâs more value. Heâs also not the type of guy thatâs really going to block a prospect, itâs not a salary that would say prohibit a Devers extension, and probably no QO so you keep that second draft pick. Not super sexy but I think for a relatively modest short term sum you improve CF defense, 2B defense, the overall offense slightly, positional flexibility, salary flexibility, and no draft penalty. Also guy raked in playoffs during biggest moments so, very unfairly, you have less fear of being Renfroed.
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 27, 2021 9:11:49 GMT -5
I know Chris Taylor has been talked about..and someone pointed out thatâs kinda like Kiké Hernandez part 2â¦.but it might be interesting because of Hernandez. Hernandez as it turned out was a valuable center fielder. A full season in center probably raises the defensive value of the team. Taylor plays everywhere but Iâve read is actually pretty good at 2nd, kinda of a reverse Kiké. So defensively you improve at 2 positions (as you allow them to mainly play center and 2nd). Hernandez and Taylor can cover almost any other position in case of injury of course, and thatâs more value. Heâs also not the type of guy thatâs really going to block a prospect, itâs not a salary that would say prohibit a Devers extension, and probably no QO so you keep that second draft pick. Not super sexy but I think for a relatively modest short term sum you improve CF defense, 2B defense, the overall offense slightly, positional flexibility, salary flexibility, and no draft penalty. Also guy raked in playoffs during biggest moments so, very unfairly, you have less fear of being Renfroed. Taylor may be at the top of my list of guys I hope the sox target. He brings that Hernandez factor of being a guy who can fill many positions as needs arise. I want them to grab either a 2nd base or an outfielder and this guy can do both. However I'm not so sure the dodgers don't offer him a QO. He's possibly in that 50/50 range. Obviously if a QO is offered that would lessen my interest in him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 27, 2021 10:01:52 GMT -5
Not that I want to prolong the conversation, but comparing trading for 28yo Chris Sale in 2017, when he was arguably on the best post-arb contract in baseball and hadn't yet had Tommy John, versus trading 33yo Chris Sale in 2022 on one of the biggest contracts in the game on an AAV basis (I believe 6th-highest for pitchers now given the number of contracts that just ended) post-TJ, is not apples-to-apples.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 27, 2021 10:28:51 GMT -5
But if it were apples to apples, 2017 Chris Sale was a Honeycrisp right off the tree.
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 27, 2021 11:23:06 GMT -5
I know Chris Taylor has been talked about..and someone pointed out thatâs kinda like Kiké Hernandez part 2â¦.but it might be interesting because of Hernandez. Hernandez as it turned out was a valuable center fielder. A full season in center probably raises the defensive value of the team. Taylor plays everywhere but Iâve read is actually pretty good at 2nd, kinda of a reverse Kiké. So defensively you improve at 2 positions (as you allow them to mainly play center and 2nd). Hernandez and Taylor can cover almost any other position in case of injury of course, and thatâs more value. Heâs also not the type of guy thatâs really going to block a prospect, itâs not a salary that would say prohibit a Devers extension, and probably no QO so you keep that second draft pick. Not super sexy but I think for a relatively modest short term sum you improve CF defense, 2B defense, the overall offense slightly, positional flexibility, salary flexibility, and no draft penalty. Also guy raked in playoffs during biggest moments so, very unfairly, you have less fear of being Renfroed. Taylor may be at the top of my list of guys I hope the sox target. He brings that Hernandez factor of being a guy who can fill many positions as needs arise. I want them to grab either a 2nd base or an outfielder and this guy can do both. However I'm not so sure the dodgers don't offer him a QO. He's possibly in that 50/50 range. Obviously if a QO is offered that would lessen my interest in him. I love the idea of Chris Taylor. I am sure that this is a Bloom type guy. But he is not going to come cheap, and if his new contract runs up to 15 mil or more, the Sox are likely to look for a lower cost alternative.
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Post by manfred on Oct 27, 2021 11:28:55 GMT -5
I was for a selloff last winter, but why would they do it now? They were close to the WS, have everything (mostly) coming back, and they have areas they could improve without a big course correction.
I am not sold on Iggy, but I do not reject the idea that he would improve them up the middle for an affordable price (I’m not *sure*, but the thinking is valid). That sort of move might be all they need. Why would you sell major pieces? What are you playing for at that point?
If they resign ERod, they can either go big with a Scherzer or look for a backend depth starter, and the staff is solid with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Pivetta, Houck/Whitlock, depth guy.
You can let either Schwarber or JDM walk and still be ok. Or try to resign Schwarber and trade Dalbec (maybe that’s how you get that depth arm).
Get a bullpen arm.
I confess the FA I might consider is Semien. 2B seems like the position you could most dramatically improve, and if they signed him and kept Schwarber, they’d have about the best offensive infield in baseball. Granted the defense would also be offensive.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 27, 2021 11:36:12 GMT -5
I was for a selloff last winter, but why would they do it now? They were close to the WS, have everything (mostly) coming back, and they have areas they could improve without a big course correction. I am not sold on Iggy, but I do not reject the idea that he would improve them up the middle for an affordable price (I’m not *sure*, but the thinking is valid). That sort of move might be all they need. Why would you sell major pieces? What are you playing for at that point? If they resign ERod, they can either go big with a Scherzer or look for a backend depth starter, and the staff is solid with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Pivetta, Houck/Whitlock, depth guy. You can let either Schwarber or JDM walk and still be ok. Or try to resign Schwarber and trade Dalbec (maybe that’s how you get that depth arm). Get a bullpen arm. I confess the FA I might consider is Semien. 2B seems like the position you could most dramatically improve, and if they signed him and kept Schwarber, they’d have about the best offensive infield in baseball. Granted the defense would also be offensive. Unless Semien turns out to be a below-average hitter, as he has been in all but two of his major league seasons. And his wOBA was 40 points above his xwOBA this season. He's already 31 and is really not a guy I would want to pay big money for well into his 30s.
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Post by manfred on Oct 27, 2021 11:37:44 GMT -5
I was for a selloff last winter, but why would they do it now? They were close to the WS, have everything (mostly) coming back, and they have areas they could improve without a big course correction. I am not sold on Iggy, but I do not reject the idea that he would improve them up the middle for an affordable price (I’m not *sure*, but the thinking is valid). That sort of move might be all they need. Why would you sell major pieces? What are you playing for at that point? If they resign ERod, they can either go big with a Scherzer or look for a backend depth starter, and the staff is solid with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Pivetta, Houck/Whitlock, depth guy. You can let either Schwarber or JDM walk and still be ok. Or try to resign Schwarber and trade Dalbec (maybe that’s how you get that depth arm). Get a bullpen arm. I confess the FA I might consider is Semien. 2B seems like the position you could most dramatically improve, and if they signed him and kept Schwarber, they’d have about the best offensive infield in baseball. Granted the defense would also be offensive. Unless Semien turns out to be a below-average hitter, as he has been in all but two of his major league seasons. And his wOBA was 40 points above his xwOBA this season. He's already 31 and is really not a guy I would want to pay big money for well into his 30s. All fair points.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 27, 2021 12:08:19 GMT -5
Someone here mentioned the soon to be 42 yr old Rich Hill. And I want to 2nd that thought, for really cheap money he could be one of those really effective 3 inning pitchers. He helps the BP and the rotation with maybe 120 efficient innings. Last yr he was over used and pitched 158 innings but he was still effective. If it doesn't work out no big deal as it won't be an expensive shot at a guy who could really help a staff.
I know it isn't very sexy but his line last year was in line with what he has done his entire career. Good FIP, good whip and his era has never been above 4, all for about 2 million. Use him 3 innings at a time and those numbers all improve.
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 27, 2021 12:37:30 GMT -5
Taylor may be at the top of my list of guys I hope the sox target. He brings that Hernandez factor of being a guy who can fill many positions as needs arise. I want them to grab either a 2nd base or an outfielder and this guy can do both. However I'm not so sure the dodgers don't offer him a QO. He's possibly in that 50/50 range. Obviously if a QO is offered that would lessen my interest in him. I love the idea of Chris Taylor. I am sure that this is a Bloom type guy. But he is not going to come cheap, and if his new contract runs up to 15 mil or more, the Sox are likely to look for a lower cost alternative. All depends on term. 15 mil may be a tad steep but they've got the money now and coming off the books next year to go for it. Would he take 3 years 15 AAV? I'd be fine with that personally but yea anything more than 3 years and I'd probably not be happy with it.
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 27, 2021 12:39:46 GMT -5
The Rays gave away Rich Hill after the sticky crackdown. His ERA with the Mets was fine, but his xFIP was bad and, according to the Fangraphs pitch value thing, his fantastic curveball turned to junk.
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Post by jdb on Oct 27, 2021 12:42:55 GMT -5
I don’t know what to think on the right side but if we go with Dalbec and Arroyo a cheap signing of Brad Miller would be good. Can play vs most RHB at either spot and wouldn’t block Casas or Downs if either is ready by mid season.
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 27, 2021 12:44:17 GMT -5
I was for a selloff last winter, but why would they do it now? They were close to the WS, have everything (mostly) coming back, and they have areas they could improve without a big course correction. I am not sold on Iggy, but I do not reject the idea that he would improve them up the middle for an affordable price (I’m not *sure*, but the thinking is valid). That sort of move might be all they need. Why would you sell major pieces? What are you playing for at that point? If they resign ERod, they can either go big with a Scherzer or look for a backend depth starter, and the staff is solid with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Pivetta, Houck/Whitlock, depth guy. You can let either Schwarber or JDM walk and still be ok. Or try to resign Schwarber and trade Dalbec (maybe that’s how you get that depth arm). Get a bullpen arm. I confess the FA I might consider is Semien. 2B seems like the position you could most dramatically improve, and if they signed him and kept Schwarber, they’d have about the best offensive infield in baseball. Granted the defense would also be offensive. Unless Semien turns out to be a below-average hitter, as he has been in all but two of his major league seasons. And his wOBA was 40 points above his xwOBA this season. He's already 31 and is really not a guy I would want to pay big money for well into his 30s. Yea I tend to agree with you on semien. Looking at his whole career and not just his two career years. He only had an ops above .735 twice which was his two career years so to speak. Those two years seem more of an outlier to me than anything. Somebody is going to give him 20+ million at 5+ years or so if I had to guess. I'd rather try to sign a guy like story to a pillow contract for a year than go after semien.
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Post by manfred on Oct 27, 2021 12:51:26 GMT -5
A few tires I’d kick: Matz Piñeda Graveman Verlander Jed Lowrie Stroman
Obviously I mean check price and length demands, see if anyone is plausible in the big picture. I recognize there is a big range there — but these seem like guys worth making real contact with.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Oct 27, 2021 13:19:44 GMT -5
A few tires I’d kick: Matz Piñeda Graveman Verlander Jed Lowrie Stroman Obviously I mean check price and length demands, see if anyone is plausible in the big picture. I recognize there is a big range there — but these seem like guys worth making real contact with. Verlander is probably going to remain with Houston or potentially go back to Detroit but I'd certainly see his interest level. Question is would Bloom pay him 10-15 million on a gamble? Pass on Lowrie. Unless the league passes a rule where players can wear bubble wrap.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2021 13:44:42 GMT -5
I'm all for taking on Eric Hosmer contract if the return is huge! I'm always down for buying prospects. He wouldn't be a bad platoon partner for Dalbec given his strength is hitting RHP. He's the opposite of Myers in that his AAV would be higher than his salary the last three years. Yet I'm talking Louis Campusano, another good type prospect and some flyers on Morejon and Baez coming off TJ surgery. They likely laugh at that, yet it has to be crazy big for four years of 18 million AAV on our books.
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Post by soxinsf on Oct 27, 2021 14:25:14 GMT -5
But if it were apples to apples, 2017 Chris Sale was a Honeycrisp right off the tree. If Sale is a Honeycrisp and Nate is maybe an Envy Apple, who are the road apples? Inquiring minds want to know.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 27, 2021 14:35:15 GMT -5
I was for a selloff last winter, but why would they do it now? They were close to the WS, have everything (mostly) coming back, and they have areas they could improve without a big course correction. I am not sold on Iggy, but I do not reject the idea that he would improve them up the middle for an affordable price (I’m not *sure*, but the thinking is valid). That sort of move might be all they need. Why would you sell major pieces? What are you playing for at that point? If they resign ERod, they can either go big with a Scherzer or look for a backend depth starter, and the staff is solid with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Pivetta, Houck/Whitlock, depth guy. You can let either Schwarber or JDM walk and still be ok. Or try to resign Schwarber and trade Dalbec (maybe that’s how you get that depth arm). Get a bullpen arm. I confess the FA I might consider is Semien. 2B seems like the position you could most dramatically improve, and if they signed him and kept Schwarber, they’d have about the best offensive infield in baseball. Granted the defense would also be offensive. Unless Semien turns out to be a below-average hitter, as he has been in all but two of his major league seasons. And his wOBA was 40 points above his xwOBA this season. He's already 31 and is really not a guy I would want to pay big money for well into his 30s. I agree with this. Semien seems like a classic "career year" guy
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 27, 2021 14:38:39 GMT -5
The Rays gave away Rich Hill after the sticky crackdown. His ERA with the Mets was fine, but his xFIP was bad and, according to the Fangraphs pitch value thing, his fantastic curveball turned to junk. Can't say if there was a connection to the trade and sticky stuff but in 53 1/3 innings during Aug, Sept he had an 3.25 era with a whip of 1.2, so I guess he figured it out. He also lost velocity during the season as he was overused a bit. I will take a low FIP, era and whip for 120 innings at 2.5 million every day. 3 or 4 guys like that and it helps both the rotation and the BP. Houck, Whitlock, Hill and maybe even Richards if he came back for <3 million. Richards could excel 3 innings at a time. I know most here will say no to that idea but he did a lot better when he knew he was going long. Those are the guys for that role, they aren't effective starters but they are close and their stuff plays up in shorter stints. Plus they can dial it up. I would be up for that group along with Sale, Eovaldi, ERod, Thor and Pivetta. Now fill out the back end and that is an impressive staff. Heck Richards could even develop into a closer or a setup man, his stuff could really play up an inning at a time like it did in Sept this year.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 27, 2021 14:42:05 GMT -5
I'm all for taking on Eric Hosmer contract if the return is huge! I'm always down for buying prospects. He wouldn't be a bad platoon partner for Dalbec given his strength is hitting RHP. He's the opposite of Myers in that his AAV would be higher than his salary the last three years. Yet I'm talking Louis Campusano, another good type prospect and some flyers on Morejon and Baez coming off TJ surgery. They likely laugh at that, yet it has to be crazy big for four years of 18 million AAV on our books. I don't get the Hosmer love, even for prospects. $18M AAV for four more years of a player in rapid decline is just too much resource allocation for lottery tickets. And maybe it's me, but I can't see San Diego giving up top shelf guys like Capusano, Hassell, etc. for a salary dump.
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Post by voiceofreason on Oct 27, 2021 14:43:24 GMT -5
A few tires I’d kick: Matz Piñeda Graveman Verlander Jed Lowrie Stroman Obviously I mean check price and length demands, see if anyone is plausible in the big picture. I recognize there is a big range there — but these seem like guys worth making real contact with. Verlander is probably going to remain with Houston or potentially go back to Detroit but I'd certainly see his interest level. Question is would Bloom pay him 10-15 million on a gamble? Pass on Lowrie. Unless the league passes a rule where players can wear bubble wrap. Do you think Verlander will be signing for 10-15m? I think you might be in for a surprise.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 27, 2021 14:52:45 GMT -5
I think Jon Gray will be a steal for whoever signs him.
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Post by julyanmorley on Oct 27, 2021 14:59:18 GMT -5
Semien is a challenging one to evaluate. Statcast disagrees a lot with the other two defensive metrics. Outperforming xWOBA is scary.
At a glance he looks like he's got about 10 WAR left in the tank
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 27, 2021 15:08:14 GMT -5
I'm all for taking on Eric Hosmer contract if the return is huge! I'm always down for buying prospects. He wouldn't be a bad platoon partner for Dalbec given his strength is hitting RHP. He's the opposite of Myers in that his AAV would be higher than his salary the last three years. Yet I'm talking Louis Campusano, another good type prospect and some flyers on Morejon and Baez coming off TJ surgery. They likely laugh at that, yet it has to be crazy big for four years of 18 million AAV on our books. I don't get the Hosmer love, even for prospects. $18M AAV for four more years of a player in rapid decline is just too much resource allocation for lottery tickets. And maybe it's me, but I can't see San Diego giving up top shelf guys like Capusano, Hassell, etc. for a salary dump. Hosmer makes ZERO sense for the RedSox under ANY scenario! Then again the SD GM made all those wonderful trades last year that netted him the greatest below .500 that even existed. Lol
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