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2022 Non-Red Sox Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 5, 2022 18:57:10 GMT -5
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Post by xdmo on Sept 5, 2022 19:26:43 GMT -5
Bobby Dalbec and Chavis might leave a lasting bad taste to all of us Sox fans for a while. Chavis was once a top 100 prospect and the best Sox prospect in the system. Dalbec was once a top 5 prospect and a top 100 guy, too. Took 2-3 months in the majors to figure out that at best, they're role players. The stigma of prospect status wears off pretty quickly with huge holes or struggles. At that point, you're a "change of scenery guy" like Pivetta. Add Duran to this list, too. Maybe I am misremembering, but I feel like when Chavis was our top-ranked guy, everyone knew his flaws and had fingers crossed — and it was a pretty low moment in the system. System definitely stunk at the time, but I think we were all hopeful for a regular hitting prospect and figure out the position later (light Schwarber type), when it came to Chavis. He was a high average, low on base prospect. Which made you hopeful for the hot tool to be acceptable.
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Post by xdmo on Sept 5, 2022 19:28:09 GMT -5
I don't know if I should be happy or sad about this prospect, Cashman is the face of every Yankees collapse. He was actually a good GM in the process. How he got Chapman for Torres, I don't know.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 5, 2022 19:34:07 GMT -5
Bobby Dalbec and Chavis might leave a lasting bad taste to all of us Sox fans for a while. Chavis was once a top 100 prospect and the best Sox prospect in the system. Dalbec was once a top 5 prospect and a top 100 guy, too. Took 2-3 months in the majors to figure out that at best, they're role players. The stigma of prospect status wears off pretty quickly with huge holes or struggles. At that point, you're a "change of scenery guy" like Pivetta. Add Duran to this list, too. Maybe I am misremembering, but I feel like when Chavis was our top-ranked guy, everyone knew his flaws and had fingers crossed — and it was a pretty low moment in the system. Peak Chavis (5, 4-6) is somewhere between 4th and 6th in this system. Peak Dalbec (4.5, 4-6) is probably 7th or 8th. Which is funny because I don't recall liking Chavis that much more than Dalbec, but I guess we did. Might be a cop-out, but I wonder to myself if we'd have had Chavis as a FV 5 if there were more guys ahead of him. EDIT: On Dalbec cracking BA's top 100, I recall that one of their guys REALLY liked him when Dalbec was playing with Team USA, probably for the Premier12 tournament in 2019. That really pushed his profile with them.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 5, 2022 19:35:29 GMT -5
"The team is underwhelming so the GM/manager must be fired" takes are such empty exercises. First of all, the Yankees are in first place - a prospect that was by no means guaranteed at the beginning of the season in what everyone saw was going to be a very tough division. Yeah, that's because of the 61-23 start. But isn't Cashman responsible for that as much as anything?
And Cashman has done an AMAZING job (to my enormous chagrin) of acquiring major league talent. Matt Carpenter. Luis Trevino. LeMahieu. Urshela. Voit. It goes on and on to the point of absolutely maddening absurdity. Their player development has been respectable given where they tend to draft.
The only things I'd really be upset with Cashman about if I were a Yankee fan are that he tends to overpay with prospects at the trade deadline, and that Jordan Montgomery trade looks like a real stinker. Overall, though, he's an irritaatingly effective GM.
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Post by xdmo on Sept 5, 2022 20:40:31 GMT -5
Maybe I am misremembering, but I feel like when Chavis was our top-ranked guy, everyone knew his flaws and had fingers crossed — and it was a pretty low moment in the system. Peak Chavis (5, 4-6) is somewhere between 4th and 6th in this system. Peak Dalbec (4.5, 4-6) is probably 7th or 8th. Which is funny because I don't recall liking Chavis that much more than Dalbec, but I guess we did. Might be a cop-out, but I wonder to myself if we'd have had Chavis as a FV 5 if there were more guys ahead of him. EDIT: On Dalbec cracking BA's top 100, I recall that one of their guys REALLY liked him when Dalbec was playing with Team USA, probably for the Premier12 tournament in 2019. That really pushed his profile with them. Wait, was I wrong about Chavis being ranked number one in a weak system at any point in your rankings even? Just asking......
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Post by xdmo on Sept 5, 2022 20:48:30 GMT -5
"The team is underwhelming so the GM/manager must be fired" takes are such empty exercises. First of all, the Yankees are in first place - a prospect that was by no means guaranteed at the beginning of the season in what everyone saw was going to be a very tough division. Yeah, that's because of the 61-23 start. But isn't Cashman responsible for that as much as anything? And Cashman has done an AMAZING job (to my enormous chagrin) of acquiring major league talent. Matt Carpenter. Luis Trevino. LeMahieu. Urshela. Voit. It goes on and on to the point of absolutely maddening absurdity. Their player development has been respectable given where they tend to draft. The only things I'd really be upset with Cashman about if I were a Yankee fan are that he tends to overpay with prospects at the trade deadline, and that Jordan Montgomery trade looks like a real stinker. Overall, though, he's an irritaatingly effective GM. If you have a GM that's the face of non championships in Yankee land, there's obviously a face to blame. I'd love to have Cashman personally, but I think this is his last go around in baseball regardless. He has been the face of the direction of the Yankees since I remember following baseball. Hal has been more to blame, but even Theo or Tito Franconia said once "Maybe there needs to be a new voice in the room to hear direction."
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 5, 2022 20:54:40 GMT -5
Peak Chavis (5, 4-6) is somewhere between 4th and 6th in this system. Peak Dalbec (4.5, 4-6) is probably 7th or 8th. Which is funny because I don't recall liking Chavis that much more than Dalbec, but I guess we did. Might be a cop-out, but I wonder to myself if we'd have had Chavis as a FV 5 if there were more guys ahead of him. EDIT: On Dalbec cracking BA's top 100, I recall that one of their guys REALLY liked him when Dalbec was playing with Team USA, probably for the Premier12 tournament in 2019. That really pushed his profile with them. Wait, was I wrong about Chavis being ranked number one in a weak system at any point in your rankings even? Just asking...... No, no. I was saying where peak Chavis would be ranked right now. I was agreeing/supporting your point.
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Post by patford on Sept 5, 2022 21:24:37 GMT -5
To be honest I'm not sold on Casas. Of course like most people here I haven't seen him aside from a few clips and I read the scouting reports, look at stats. In no way am I a scout. It's just that he hasn't ever put up eye popping numbers.
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Post by kingstephanos on Sept 5, 2022 21:42:42 GMT -5
To be honest I'm not sold on Casas. Of course like most people here I haven't seen him aside from a few clips and I read the scouting reports, look at stats. In no way am I a scout. It's just that he hasn't ever put up eye popping numbers. I've mentioned this in another thread and was given the "between X-date and Y-date he's hit..." The dreaded arbitrary endpoints. I'm curious to see how Casas' MLB output will compare to the Mets corner infield prospect Mark Vientos. Casas has the much better hit tool according to scouts, while Vientos has 70 grade raw power.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 5, 2022 21:43:20 GMT -5
I don't know if I should be happy or sad about this prospect, Cashman is the face of every Yankees collapse. He was actually a good GM in the process. How he got Chapman for Torres, I don't know. The Twins are ready to revive them.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,224
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Post by cdj on Sept 5, 2022 21:49:03 GMT -5
I don't know if I should be happy or sad about this prospect, Cashman is the face of every Yankees collapse. He was actually a good GM in the process. How he got Chapman for Torres, I don't know. The Twins are ready to revive them. As is tradition
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 5, 2022 22:02:16 GMT -5
To be honest I'm not sold on Casas. Of course like most people here I haven't seen him aside from a few clips and I read the scouting reports, look at stats. In no way am I a scout. It's just that he hasn't ever put up eye popping numbers. I've mentioned this in another thread and was given the "between X-date and Y-date he's hit..." The dreaded arbitrary endpoints. I'm curious to see how Casas' MLB output will compare to the Mets corner infield prospect Mark Vientos. Casas has the much better hit tool according to scouts, while Vientos has 70 grade raw power. Casas has 70 raw too.
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Post by kingstephanos on Sept 5, 2022 22:29:43 GMT -5
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Post by keninten on Sept 5, 2022 22:37:46 GMT -5
To be honest I'm not sold on Casas. Of course like most people here I haven't seen him aside from a few clips and I read the scouting reports, look at stats. In no way am I a scout. It's just that he hasn't ever put up eye popping numbers. But do you like tacos?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 5, 2022 23:06:24 GMT -5
MLB's writeup legit says he has plus-plus raw power he BA's says he has "immense" raw, whatever that means. Are you maybe confusing their power grades, which usually refer to game power, with raw power? FWIW, BA says the same thing about Vientos's raw while giving his game power a 60 to Casas' 65. Same grades on MLB with no specific quantification of Vientos' raw.
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Post by kingstephanos on Sept 6, 2022 0:08:55 GMT -5
MLB's writeup legit says he has plus-plus raw power he BA's says he has "immense" raw, whatever that means. Are you maybe confusing their power grades, which usually refer to game power, with raw power? FWIW, BA says the same thing about Vientos's raw while giving his game power a 60 to Casas' 65. Same grades on MLB with no specific quantification of Vientos' raw. No I wasn't confusing raw vs in game power, my apologies for the confusion. I was comparing the raw power of Casas and Vientos in a singular site (Fangraphs) which keeps it apples to apples. In addition, Vientos' ISO numbers are vastly higher than Casas from 2021 onward. The other sites (mlb pipeline and prospects live) were linked to show Casas' much higher hitting grade compared to Vientos - which speaks to my initial post.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 6, 2022 2:06:40 GMT -5
Kudos to king and Chris for an actual back and fourth intelligent discussion.
Rare air.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 6, 2022 6:28:38 GMT -5
MLB's writeup legit says he has plus-plus raw power he BA's says he has "immense" raw, whatever that means. Are you maybe confusing their power grades, which usually refer to game power, with raw power? FWIW, BA says the same thing about Vientos's raw while giving his game power a 60 to Casas' 65. Same grades on MLB with no specific quantification of Vientos' raw. No I wasn't confusing raw vs in game power, my apologies for the confusion. I was comparing the raw power of Casas and Vientos in a singular site (Fangraphs) which keeps it apples to apples. In addition, Vientos' ISO numbers are vastly higher than Casas from 2021 onward. The other sites (mlb pipeline and prospects live) were linked to show Casas' much higher hitting grade compared to Vientos - which speaks to my initial post. Not to throw shade, but Fangraphs' prospect coverage has been pretty lackluster this year. (Kind of unrelated but Longenhagen, the only person left from what was a team of 4 people in the offseason, hasn't done anything in a month at this point, including even tweeting...) In addition to egregious stuff like not even ranking Rafaela coming into the year, if you read the text under the grades, it often contradicts the grades or doesn't make sense. I'm pretty out on its prospect coverage this season. Casas absolutely has 70 raw and I'm very skeptical of any outlet that says otherwise.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 6, 2022 8:36:55 GMT -5
No I wasn't confusing raw vs in game power, my apologies for the confusion. I was comparing the raw power of Casas and Vientos in a singular site (Fangraphs) which keeps it apples to apples. In addition, Vientos' ISO numbers are vastly higher than Casas from 2021 onward. The other sites (mlb pipeline and prospects live) were linked to show Casas' much higher hitting grade compared to Vientos - which speaks to my initial post. Not to throw shade, but Fangraphs' prospect coverage has been pretty lackluster this year. (Kind of unrelated but Longenhagen, the only person left from what was a team of 4 people in the offseason, hasn't done anything in a month at this point, including even tweeting...) In addition to egregious stuff like not even ranking Rafaela coming into the year, if you read the text under the grades, it often contradicts the grades or doesn't make sense. I'm pretty out on its prospect coverage this season. Casas absolutely has 70 raw and I'm very skeptical of any outlet that says otherwise. Wonder if Longenhagen got a team gig, too. He definitely deserves it. But that would be a death blow to FG's prospect coverage, pretty difficult to rebuild from having two of the best in the business leave in a relatively short time frame.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,420
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Post by radiohix on Sept 6, 2022 12:00:48 GMT -5
The dude is hilariously incredible! Judge can hit 70 bombs for all I care and Ohtani is still my MVP.
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Post by patford on Sept 6, 2022 12:25:11 GMT -5
To be honest I'm not sold on Casas. Of course like most people here I haven't seen him aside from a few clips and I read the scouting reports, look at stats. In no way am I a scout. It's just that he hasn't ever put up eye popping numbers. But do you like tacos? I might or might not. It depends on the taco.
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Post by xdmo on Sept 7, 2022 15:36:09 GMT -5
The dude is hilariously incredible! Judge can hit 70 bombs for all I care and Ohtani is still my MVP. I'd be afraid to hand out Ohtani's next contract. It's going to be at a incredibly high AAV. Maybe highest ever, who knows how many years attached. He's doing unworldly things right now, but how long can he keep playing both sides of the ball well? How long until he needs more rest into his 30's? Will injuries creep in? (My opinion, yes)
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Post by vermontsox1 on Sept 7, 2022 21:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Sept 8, 2022 14:29:19 GMT -5
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