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Post by tizzle on Jul 14, 2022 22:19:21 GMT -5
So worst case scenario, drawing up the 4 most valuable trade chips if the Sox sell- Vazquez Eovaldi Verdugo Devers Next tier, (interesting players but might not get you as much)- Xander Strahm Gets you very little- JD Martinez Wacha Also be interesting if the Sox were willing to dangle controllable players like Houck and Duran. Umm, what? Vazquez is worth more than Xander? JD and Wacha aren't worth anything, a tier below Strahm? Silly. Devers would be on a tier by himself. Everyone else on that list, minus Strahm, should bring good value. So would Schrieber if you dealt him. Whether you'd find a team fit for any is the only question there, Strahm, Hill, maybe Davis would bring you a little something but not a lot.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 14, 2022 22:23:04 GMT -5
How do we think Dalbec’s current value compares to Chavis when they got Davis? Also, if they subscribe to the theory that they have too many lefties and need to deal one, Strahm would be the one I’m looking to deal
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 14, 2022 22:28:33 GMT -5
So worst case scenario, drawing up the 4 most valuable trade chips if the Sox sell- Vazquez Eovaldi Verdugo Devers Next tier, (interesting players but might not get you as much)- Xander Strahm Gets you very little- JD Martinez Wacha Also be interesting if the Sox were willing to dangle controllable players like Houck and Duran. Umm, what? Vazquez is worth more than Xander? JD and Wacha aren't worth anything, a tier below Strahm? Silly. Devers would be on a tier by himself. Everyone else on that list, minus Strahm, should bring good value. So would Schrieber if you dealt him. Whether you'd find a team fit for any is the only question there, Strahm, Hill, maybe Davis would bring you a little something but not a lot. The no trade clause is why I think Xander might be less valuable than Vazquez. If there wasn't a trade clause involved, I'd agree with you. JDM is expensive and doesn't have a position. Wacha is the luckiest starting pitcher in baseball this year. Strahm is a useful LH relief pitcher who costs nothing. You're probably right about Devers being on a list of his own.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 14, 2022 23:14:19 GMT -5
How do we think Dalbec’s current value compares to Chavis when they got Davis? Also, if they subscribe to the theory that they have too many lefties and need to deal one, Strahm would be the one I’m looking to deal Dalbec is 2 years older than Chavis was, with similar FV projections as prospects (45; slight edge to Chavis due to position and being ranked ahead in sox system) but last year he showed that he could be a decent MLB player. Chavis showed potential his rookie year, but then had been below replacement level for the following 1.5 years. In my head this seemed like an easy answer but after going over their numbers and projections, I think it's a close call. I'd give Dalbec the edge as I see him as a weakside platoon bench player even if he doesn't make improvements. Not particularly valuable, but it's something. Maybe Dalbec will go to the Pirates as part of a deal for Bednar and we can watch them play together a few times a year.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 14, 2022 23:43:44 GMT -5
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Post by kjkramer on Jul 15, 2022 0:47:21 GMT -5
I want no part of Verdugo for various reasons. I would trade him for any piwer prospect
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Post by prospectlove on Jul 15, 2022 14:30:05 GMT -5
Really interesting catch. It will be extremely interesting to see how the Red Sox value certain players moving forward. What "steals" they might find or if they value certain types of pitchers more etc. It also screams that the new assistant GM has some "sway" or pull. Side "thought": Groopman comes from the Brewers and Royals. Both teams aren't exactly known as analytic stars. Further, one of the first trades that happened after he was hired was the trade for JBJ again. Although we obtained 2 minor leaguers I'm excited for, it sure doesn't scream "great evaluator" by looking at JBJ and his production. I believe this trade deadline could be really interesting as will this off season. It could truly make or break the Bloom era in Boston.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 15, 2022 17:28:45 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 15, 2022 17:54:01 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure The league says no first as the pick is only allowed to be traded once.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 15, 2022 18:34:27 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure The league says no first as the pick is only allowed to be traded once. Lol alright, well choose a competitive balance pick of your liking and do it that way
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 15, 2022 19:04:58 GMT -5
The better question is, who would want Bobby Dalbec at this rate?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 15, 2022 20:04:30 GMT -5
Josh Bell with 3 hits in the game I'm at, including a nice oppo field double to fight the shift. Sign me up!
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Post by taiwansox on Jul 15, 2022 20:14:03 GMT -5
Josh Bell with 3 hits in the game I'm at, including a nice oppo field double to fight the shift. Sign me up! Still annoyed we didn’t spend $5M for him in 2011
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 15, 2022 20:24:13 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure The league says no first as the pick is only allowed to be traded once. Stupid league.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 16, 2022 7:55:05 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure Just going on the thought experiment (because we have established the pick cannot be re-traded): the Braves just dealt Drew Waters, CJ Alexander, and Andrew Hoffman for that pick. There is no way the Braves trade that package for Dalbec. Dalbec wouldn't net you Waters alone.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 16, 2022 11:21:49 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jul 16, 2022 11:32:20 GMT -5
Soto now on the market after rejecting 15/$440m Nata offer. Per Rosethal
Wow! Mayer/York/Bello enough?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jul 16, 2022 11:32:23 GMT -5
So Juan Soto is officially out there
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Post by Guidas on Jul 16, 2022 11:33:25 GMT -5
Thought exercise. The 35th pick in the draft (that the Braves just traded for) for Bobby Dalbec. Who says no? I feel like 93% of the board says yes but are we sure the Sox would? I’m not so sure Just going on the thought experiment (because we have established the pick cannot be re-traded): the Braves just dealt Drew Waters, CJ Alexander, and Andrew Hoffman for that pick. There is no way the Braves trade that package for Dalbec. Dalbec wouldn't net you Waters alone. If Casas was ready, sure. But now, tied for the WC? Who plays first? And what is the success rate of 35th picks in the draft? Maybe if you told me you tried selling Dalbec to DC for 2 months of Bell and they said no, but they'd take the 35th pick. Again, goes back to the success rate of 35th picks historically, or even over the last 15 years.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 16, 2022 11:43:14 GMT -5
Soto now on the market after rejecting 15/$440m Nata offer. Per Rosethal Wow! Mayer/York/Bello enough? I'd rather just keep the 3 and sign Devers to a mega deal.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 16, 2022 11:44:49 GMT -5
If we're talking about both as a free agent I would take Soto over Devers. If we're talking trading for him some monster package and then having to still sign him I'm taking Devers.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 16, 2022 11:50:30 GMT -5
Soto now on the market after rejecting 15/$440m Nata offer. Per Rosethal Wow! Mayer/York/Bello enough? That's a big giveaway unless you secure an extension. Then again, if you think Soto at $45M x 10 costs out (he'll only be 33 at the end of that contract, two years older than Mike Trout is now. If Soto performs to an average of 6 WAR (which is about 2.5 WAR less than Trout up to Age 28), and then 5-4 WAR to 32 that's actually a bargain, salary-wise If he wants 12 years, it's not outrageous if he's still, say, a 3.5-4 WAR player in those last 3 years. And if you give him an opt-out at age 30 and he takes it, you can go shopping again. The big IF with any extreme investment in an athlete is IF he doesn't sustain a dramatic, career changing/ending injury. That, and how much do you believe in what you have not named Mayer/Yorke/Bello. Personally, I think only one of those guys projects as an above ave. MLB player (Mayer). Bello still looks like a 3 at best, and a BP arm if he can't get his command to come along. Wild opportunity, and a total John Henry decision. If they did it, it probably means the end of Raffi and Bloom would likely trade Devers after the season to restock a bit. So you basically have a team built around Soto, Casas and a cast whomevers. If I was playing GM and owner, I grab Soto, extend Devers and keep Casas. That gives you a chance to be competitive for the next 6-8 years, and I think you have more chances at building a team around what's left, value acquisitions and smart drafts. But, the Sox will not do any of that. After all, this isn't Liverpool, y'know.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 16, 2022 11:55:24 GMT -5
Soto now on the market after rejecting 15/$440m Nata offer. Per Rosethal Wow! Mayer/York/Bello enough? That's a big giveaway unless you secure an extension. Then again, if you think Soto at $45M x 10 costs out (he'll only be 33 at the end of that contract, two years older than Mike Trout is now. If Soto performs to an average of 6 WAR (which is about 2.5 WAR less than Trout up to Age 28), and then 5-4 WAR to 32 that's actually a bargain, salary-wise If he wants 12 years, it's not outrageous if he's still, say, a 3.5-4 WAR player in those last 3 years. And if you give him an opt-out at age 30 and he takes it, you can go shopping again. The big IF with any extreme investment in an athlete is IF he doesn't sustain a dramatic, career changing/ending injury. That, and how much do you believe in what you have not named Mayer/Yorke/Bello. Personally, I think only one of those guys projects as an above ave. MLB player (Mayer). Bello still looks like a 3 at best, and a BP arm if he can't get his command to come along. Wild opportunity, and a total John Henry decision. If they did it, it probably means the end of Raffi and Bloom would likely trade Devers after the season to restock a bit. So you basically have a team built around Soto, Casas and a cast whomevers. If I was playing GM and owner, I grab Soto, extend Devers and keep Casas. That gives you a chance to be competitive for the next 6-8 years, and I think you have more chances at building a team around what's left, value acquisitions and smart drafts. But, the Sox will not do any of that. After all, this isn't Liverpool, y'know. In an ideal world yes send out the farm which are still unproven and could end up being busts for a top 5 player in the league get him extended and then resign Devers. Sadly this isn't an ideal world and honestly you'd be looking at a team of Soto Devers and Casas with basically nothing else because they wouldn't have much money to sign anyone else. We don't even know if Bloom and more importantly Henry are open to 1 mega contract none the less two. If they are willing to give out a mega contract my vote would be give it to Devers and keep the farm in tact rather than basically the whole farm for Soto and then either let Devers go or trade him anyway to replenish the farm a bit.
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Post by bosox904 on Jul 16, 2022 12:03:25 GMT -5
I'd trade for Soto, extend him and Devers, let Bogaerts walk. If Casas is even say, 80% of what he could be with the bat, that's a heck of a 2, 3 and 4 to build around in the lineup.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 16, 2022 12:15:49 GMT -5
Some GM on ESPN supposedly said it was going to take Herschell Walker type trade to get him. Meaning either A) we dont have the necessary pieces or B) we dont want to give up the necessary pieces. Obviously you can forget giving up expiring contracts, that wont move the needle. The two players I dont want want to give up are Raffy and Mayer. I know Mayer hasnt played above A ball but I want to see it play out. Seems to kind of have that it factor. Anybody else within reason I'd move.
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