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Post by jimed14 on Jul 13, 2022 17:27:51 GMT -5
TEN? Good lord. Just spotting wins to our division rival. Boston should pass laws to benefit the Red Sox at Toronto's expense.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 13, 2022 20:41:15 GMT -5
My impression after reading that article is that John Henry successfully managed to convey zero information. Chaim is also wicked good at that. You can see why they hired him. Nothing to do with baseball acumen.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 13, 2022 21:12:07 GMT -5
FWIW, Dalbac & Groome for Cooper is an accepted trade on the Trade Simulator That sounds about right to me. Also more than you'd give up for two months of Bell.
Bell is the better hitter and he scratches right where you itch (with the expectation going into next season that Casas will make a legit impact, so a two-month patch is fine) and he'll be cheaper than Cooper.
I also don't see how Groome or Jimenez are inferior to Aldo (now mixing post references) -- FG had Jimenez at #5 (45+) in March and Groome at #13 (40+). Obviously, the SP60 sees them differently but I hardly think that one of those two is a dead offer, particularly given that BOS may be the ONLY team shopping for a starting 1B (who knows what TOR will do, now that they fired Montoyo -- they could wheel and deal to show faith in the team and the new skipper or they could stand pat and blame the season on injuries and the old manager).
It's possible that Chaim will be able to name his price with Rizzo knowing he could wind up with a nothing burger otherwise -- with that in mind, it could go right down to the 11th hour.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 11:03:04 GMT -5
My impression after reading that article is that John Henry successfully managed to convey zero information. Chaim is also wicked good at that. You can see why they hired him. Nothing to do with baseball acumen. Chaim is pretty open about his thinking on lots of topics; people just choose not to listen to him for some reason.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jul 14, 2022 11:28:26 GMT -5
TEN? Good lord. Just spotting wins to our division rival. Boston should pass laws to benefit the Red Sox at Toronto's expense. You mean start our own 'revenge tour'? It's Canada's health policy to protect its citizenry, not Toronto's dictates.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 11:53:49 GMT -5
That sounds about right to me. Also more than you'd give up for two months of Bell.
Bell is the better hitter and he scratches right where you itch (with the expectation going into next season that Casas will make a legit impact, so a two-month patch is fine) and he'll be cheaper than Cooper.
I also don't see how Groome or Jimenez are inferior to Aldo (now mixing post references) -- FG had Jimenez at #5 (45+) in March and Groome at #13 (40+). Obviously, the SP60 sees them differently but I hardly think that one of those two is a dead offer, particularly given that BOS may be the ONLY team shopping for a starting 1B (who knows what TOR will do, now that they fired Montoyo -- they could wheel and deal to show faith in the team and the new skipper or they could stand pat and blame the season on injuries and the old manager).
It's possible that Chaim will be able to name his price with Rizzo knowing he could wind up with a nothing burger otherwise -- with that in mind, it could go right down to the 11th hour.
You keep mentioning Toronto but between Vlad Jr., Kirk, and Jansen they have plenty of bats to cover 1B and DH. They seem like one of the least likely teams to go after Bell. The Mets have a lot more use for him as they could move Alonso to DH, a position where they've been one of the weakest teams in the majors. Houston could use him to upgrade on Gurriel, but certainly don't need to, and their farm system is really barren at the moment. I wonder if the Padres might try to trade Hosmer and a passel of prospects for Bell, or just move Hosmer to make room for Bell.
But it is possible the Red Sox end up being the only team that's really in on Bell; I could see it playing out the way you describe. Or I could see Bloom doing something totally unexpected.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 14, 2022 12:02:42 GMT -5
I'm preparing for a pretty meager deadline in terms of additions to the roster. I fear prices will be jacked up with the addition of the 3rd wildcard. Thatll mean less teams selling and more teams buying. The farm is getting better no doubt but I'm not sure it's to the point of having enough depth to outbid some other contenders for Bloom to feel good about pulling the trigger.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 12:16:46 GMT -5
Something to consider with Bell is that if he keeps it up and the rules don't change he's probably a QO candidate (unless I am forgetting something about the new CBA), and so unless the Nationals really have a preference for one of our 40+ FV guys (and he's one the Sox are willing to send) I'm not sure they'd definitely take that vs. just keeping Bell, even if we are literally the only team to make an offer.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 14, 2022 12:17:05 GMT -5
I'm preparing for a pretty meager deadline in terms of additions to the roster. I fear prices will be jacked up with the addition of the 3rd wildcard. Thatll mean less teams selling and more teams buying. The farm is getting better no doubt but I'm not sure it's to the point of having enough depth to outbid some other contenders for Bloom to feel good about pulling the trigger. The pickings are really slim, and I'd like to hear more about specifically who people want to add, other than Josh Bell. Like, I want an outfielder. But who? Benintendi (maybe not a great fit to begin with) just took himself out of the running. I kinda like Ian Happ, but it really drops off after that. Maaaaybe Ramon Laureano? And then it's just tumbleweeds...
I think the two most likely possibilities are that Bloom does just a minor move or two, or else some major shakeup out of nowhere, a la the 2004 Garciaparra trade, that is as much about the future roster as it is about improving the team this year. (JDM to the Mets keeps coming to mind...)
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 14, 2022 12:25:39 GMT -5
Something to consider with Bell is that if he keeps it up and the rules don't change he's probably a QO candidate (unless I am forgetting something about the new CBA), and so unless the Nationals really have a preference for one of our 40+ FV guys (and he's one the Sox are willing to send) I'm not sure they'd definitely take that vs. just keeping Bell, even if we are literally the only team to make an offer. You can't QO a guy traded in season.
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Post by manfred on Jul 14, 2022 12:26:27 GMT -5
Strahm says he wants to start. Does he have any trade value as a starter? I like him, so this isn’t a ditch proposal, and I imaginr it would be minimal… but I’d be curious if another team valued him more than the Sox do.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 14, 2022 12:35:33 GMT -5
Strahm says he wants to start. Does he have any trade value as a starter? I like him, so this isn’t a ditch proposal, and I imaginr it would be minimal… but I’d be curious if another team valued him more than the Sox do. It's an interesting thought. If he wants to start he won't do that this year for the Sox and he's an FA after the season. I'm with you I wouldn't trade him just to ditch him as he's been pretty good but if they can get something back of decent value I'd be for it.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 12:35:58 GMT -5
Something to consider with Bell is that if he keeps it up and the rules don't change he's probably a QO candidate (unless I am forgetting something about the new CBA), and so unless the Nationals really have a preference for one of our 40+ FV guys (and he's one the Sox are willing to send) I'm not sure they'd definitely take that vs. just keeping Bell, even if we are literally the only team to make an offer. You can't QO a guy traded in season. My point was that the Nationals would QO him themselves rather than trade him if all we're offering is a 40+ FV, but does he not qualify because he was traded for in the off-season? I could be misremembering that.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 14, 2022 12:44:05 GMT -5
You can't QO a guy traded in season. My point was that the Nationals would QO him themselves rather than trade him if all we're offering is a 40+ FV, but does he not qualify because he was traded for in the off-season? I could be misremembering that. Ah, my bad I should have read more carefully. Bell was on Washington in 2021 so he'd be QO eligible. Guess it'd come down to whether they think he'd accept a QO and if they think not then I agree with your point that they won't be forced to just accept some mediocre offer rather vs just taking the QO.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 14:32:17 GMT -5
My point was that the Nationals would QO him themselves rather than trade him if all we're offering is a 40+ FV, but does he not qualify because he was traded for in the off-season? I could be misremembering that. Ah, my bad I should have read more carefully. Bell was on Washington in 2021 so he'd be QO eligible. Guess it'd come down to whether they think he'd accept a QO and if they think not then I agree with your point that they won't be forced to just accept some mediocre offer rather vs just taking the QO. They also might be okay with him resigning the QO, depending on their goals it's not out of the question that they think they could be a WC team next year, or if not they have another chance to trade him at the deadline in a year.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jul 14, 2022 14:40:47 GMT -5
Ah, my bad I should have read more carefully. Bell was on Washington in 2021 so he'd be QO eligible. Guess it'd come down to whether they think he'd accept a QO and if they think not then I agree with your point that they won't be forced to just accept some mediocre offer rather vs just taking the QO. They also might be okay with him resigning the QO, depending on their goals it's not out of the question that they think they could be a WC team next year, or if not they have another chance to trade him at the deadline in a year. They are 30 and 60 and look awful with what I believe a subpar farm system. While anything can happen I wouldn't expect them to believe they have much of a shot at a WC for next year. Either way yep they don't really have much incentive to trade him for some low probability lotto tickets.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 14, 2022 14:47:56 GMT -5
Josh Bell QO pick would be in the 70s and then they need to pay him close to a million to sign. It really does not take much to beat that in value.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 14:55:26 GMT -5
Josh Bell QO pick would be in the 70s and then they need to pay him close to a million to sign. It really does not take much to beat that in value. Could be a 40 FV guy or could give them pool money to get a better guy earlier/later, I don't think they care so much about the signing bonus. I'm saying they could easily turn down any of our 10-20 guys in favor of that option if they don't love the guy we're offering. Of course we could beat that but I don't know that we will necessarily.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 14, 2022 16:57:44 GMT -5
Any chance White Sox trade Jose Abreu? He’s a free agent at end of year. Haven’t seen his name out there
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 14, 2022 17:03:10 GMT -5
Any chance White Sox trade Jose Abreu? He’s a free agent at end of year. Haven’t seen his name out there That would surprise me. He's a huge team leader.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 14, 2022 17:28:51 GMT -5
Ah, my bad I should have read more carefully. Bell was on Washington in 2021 so he'd be QO eligible. Guess it'd come down to whether they think he'd accept a QO and if they think not then I agree with your point that they won't be forced to just accept some mediocre offer rather vs just taking the QO. They also might be okay with him resigning the QO, depending on their goals it's not out of the question that they think they could be a WC team next year, or if not they have another chance to trade him at the deadline in a year. I don't think they'll QO him because he would probably jump at the $18m contract, which would almost double his current 1/$10m deal. He's about to turn 30 and would need at least a new 3-year deal to consider QO rejection. Even then, he might bet on himself, accept the QO, and hope for another good season and a 2-3 year deal after that. I'm not sure it's worth the risk for WAS for a 1B/DH guy with a very good but not elite bat, especially when the reward would be a 70-ish draft pick.
They're also rumored to be preparing to sell the team and having an $18m 1B on the payroll of a losing team would not be a selling point.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 14, 2022 18:55:03 GMT -5
They also might be okay with him resigning the QO, depending on their goals it's not out of the question that they think they could be a WC team next year, or if not they have another chance to trade him at the deadline in a year. I don't think they'll QO him because he would probably jump at the $18m contract, which would almost double his current 1/$10m deal. He's about to turn 30 and would need at least a new 3-year deal to consider QO rejection. Even then, he might bet on himself, accept the QO, and hope for another good season and a 2-3 year deal after that. I'm not sure it's worth the risk for WAS for a 1B/DH guy with a very good but not elite bat, especially when the reward would be a 70-ish draft pick.
They're also rumored to be preparing to sell the team and having an $18m 1B on the payroll of a losing team would not be a selling point.
If he keeps playing like this he will do better than 1/18 and the Nats would QO him almost certainly. If we don't think he will keep playing like this then why would the Red Sox want to trade for him? Beating a 70-ish draft pick's value isn't that hard, but depending on how the Nationals feel about individual players some of the names we've thrown around may not do it. I could see them taking the pick instead of Jay Groome for example.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jul 14, 2022 18:57:20 GMT -5
Do we know if Bell can play in Toronto?
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Jul 14, 2022 20:28:48 GMT -5
Do we know if Bell can play in Toronto? The Nats last played "@tor" last April and Bell played but it was in Dunedin...
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Post by redsox43 on Jul 14, 2022 22:14:13 GMT -5
So worst case scenario, drawing up the 4 most valuable trade chips if the Sox sell-
Vazquez Eovaldi Verdugo Devers
Next tier, (interesting players but might not get you as much)-
Xander Strahm
Gets you very little- JD Martinez Wacha
Also be interesting if the Sox were willing to dangle controllable players like Houck and Duran.
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