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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 2, 2022 20:40:43 GMT -5
"His arrival in Boston clouds the future of Triston Casas, a 22-year-old who was selected by Boston 26th overall in the 2018 amateur draft. " No it doesn't, ESPN There are certainly plenty of valid criticisms of today but this is the dumbest take to consistently come out of today
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 2, 2022 20:42:53 GMT -5
Only way this made sense given the quality of prospects they got back. You say that, but what does SD get out of this? They must love Groome. This probably has nothing to do with it, but I am 99% sure that back in 2016 our main competition for Groome sliding down to us at 12 was San Diego at 8.
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 2, 2022 20:50:20 GMT -5
"We were fortunate that it was a well-rounded trade,'' Rizzo said. "We've got two pitchers, two outfielders and a shortstop, which fit our needs perfectly.''
Meanwhile the Sats are trading for need in the low minors (I know they aren't really, its just another dumb thing in a day full of them)
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Post by widewordofsport on Aug 2, 2022 20:51:42 GMT -5
One lesson is that you need to sell your guys a year early if you want to tempt the out-of-their-minds general managers to do something stupid. Which is why Bloom is stuck. Its just too hard for a team that usually contends.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 2, 2022 20:55:37 GMT -5
I think I'd have been happy trading Eovaldi for a little less than the moon, getting under the tax and accepting that our zero point eight percent chance of a title was now zero point seven percent. Nah. You dont just give away players. nate would be a legit difference maker for a playoff team. So the cost should reflect that. So you take far less when he leaves via free agency because hes likely to get a log of better offers elsewhere. That's better?
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 2, 2022 20:56:57 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of a JD Martinez trade. If we're understanding the Vaz trade as a QO issue--which it certainly looks like. You either lose him for nothing, or make the trade, then the prospect of a JD QO makes zero sense to me. I don't see how a DH makes sense at 19 mill with how's he's been playing this year and anticipated further decline next year. I just can't see how some team wouldn't value him "Enough" to get something rather than nothing for him given the circumstances the team finds itself in currently. The Pham trade also seems odd, the others have some logic to them, and if I stretch, the Pham TB connection to Bloom fills in some gaps there, but JD still on this team after the deadline is the biggest headscratcher. Anyone have some insight into the lack of a JD Trade? Perhaps. Nobody wanted to pay what it would cost for JDM? Better for the sox to keep him then just give him away
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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 2, 2022 21:01:54 GMT -5
I think the best part of the trade deadline in my opinion is that Reese McGuire's middle name is Jackson.
I can only imagine the headlines if he hits a game winning HR.
"Boston jackoff Jack offs walk-off jack"
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TearsIn04
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Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 2, 2022 21:12:53 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of a JD Martinez trade. If we're understanding the Vaz trade as a QO issue--which it certainly looks like. You either lose him for nothing, or make the trade, then the prospect of a JD QO makes zero sense to me. I don't see how a DH makes sense at 19 mill with how's he's been playing this year and anticipated further decline next year. I just can't see how some team wouldn't value him "Enough" to get something rather than nothing for him given the circumstances the team finds itself in currently. The Pham trade also seems odd, the others have some logic to them, and if I stretch, the Pham TB connection to Bloom fills in some gaps there, but JD still on this team after the deadline is the biggest headscratcher. Anyone have some insight into the lack of a JD Trade? Don't look at me. I don't have a clue. I would have accepted a low return just to get under the LTT. If you don't get under, you've significantly lowered the value of the picks you'll get for QO FAs who leave. Getting under the LTT is also important because it allows you to go over in some future year when you have more than, you know, a .8 percent chance of winning the WS. My preferences for this deadline were: 1. Sell Eo and JDM. Keep Vaz and try to re-sign him. Vaz could have been re-signed for reasonable dollars and years, I think. 2. Be a buyer and chase that .8 percent chance. This was a very distant second choice for me. 3. Try to be both a buyer and a seller and not gain much of anything in terms of improving the team or adding future assets. This was unthinkable for me and it's the path Bloom chose. CB will try to convince fans that this new version of the 2022 RS has a great chance of making the PS and going deep into October. Anyone who believes that is doing what our new C was doing in that car. It feels good but it's not the real thing.
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Post by homerdante on Aug 2, 2022 21:24:15 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of a JD Martinez trade. If we're understanding the Vaz trade as a QO issue--which it certainly looks like. You either lose him for nothing, or make the trade, then the prospect of a JD QO makes zero sense to me. I don't see how a DH makes sense at 19 mill with how's he's been playing this year and anticipated further decline next year. I just can't see how some team wouldn't value him "Enough" to get something rather than nothing for him given the circumstances the team finds itself in currently. The Pham trade also seems odd, the others have some logic to them, and if I stretch, the Pham TB connection to Bloom fills in some gaps there, but JD still on this team after the deadline is the biggest headscratcher. Anyone have some insight into the lack of a JD Trade? Don't look at me. I don't have a clue. I would have accepted a low return just to get under the LTT. If you don't get under, you've significantly lowered the value of the picks you'll get for QO FAs who leave. Getting under the LTT is also important because it allows you to go over in some future year when you have more than, you know, a .8 percent chance of winning the WS. My preferences for this deadline were: 1. Sell Eo and JDM. Keep Vaz and try to re-sign him. Vaz could have been re-signed for reasonable dollars and years, I think. 2. Be a buyer and chase that .8 percent chance. This was a very distant second choice for me. 3. Try to be both a buyer and a seller and not gain much of anything in terms of improving the team or adding future assets. This was unthinkable for me and it's the path Bloom chose. CB will try to convince fans that this new version of the 2022 RS has a great chance of making the PS and going deep into October. Anyone who believes that is doing what our new C was doing in that car. It feels good but it's not the real thing. I think those are all reasonable thoughts in response (and in retro considering what you were thinking before the deadline.) I can see holding onto EO, only because giving him a QO is not unreasonable. 20 mill for a starter who put up his 2021 seasons, is not unreasonable even with injury risk. It's a little high maybe, but not unreasonable. Vaz I can see the logic of the QO difficulty with. You're not risking 19 mill per year on him, ever. He seems like a nice dude and all, but the numbers are just bonkers. JDM, like you said, addresses that LTT issue. Even getting a marginal return on him is worth it, since you're not giving him a QO, or at least it's a huge stretch to do that. I don't think it's giving him away for free when subtracting his salary gets you so much with regard to the Luxury tax. That's the big get. Get whatever you can after that in trade value, but you've already won the trade if it drops you under the tax threshold. Further, when you added Hosmer, having the DH slot available gives you Casas possibilities in 17 days. Now, you've got more of a roster jam. Just seems bizarre not to have moved him.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 2, 2022 21:31:35 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of a JD Martinez trade. If we're understanding the Vaz trade as a QO issue--which it certainly looks like. You either lose him for nothing, or make the trade, then the prospect of a JD QO makes zero sense to me. I don't see how a DH makes sense at 19 mill with how's he's been playing this year and anticipated further decline next year. I just can't see how some team wouldn't value him "Enough" to get something rather than nothing for him given the circumstances the team finds itself in currently. The Pham trade also seems odd, the others have some logic to them, and if I stretch, the Pham TB connection to Bloom fills in some gaps there, but JD still on this team after the deadline is the biggest headscratcher. Anyone have some insight into the lack of a JD Trade? Perhaps. Nobody wanted to pay what it would cost for JDM? Better for the sox to keep him then just give him away You trade him, collect your new 18th best prospect and get under the tax. Then next year or in 2024 instead of going under the tax again you get to go over and treat yourself to an extra JD Martinez caliber free agent for the entire season and maybe an arm or two.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 2, 2022 21:32:20 GMT -5
I don't get the lack of a JD Martinez trade. If we're understanding the Vaz trade as a QO issue--which it certainly looks like. You either lose him for nothing, or make the trade, then the prospect of a JD QO makes zero sense to me. I don't see how a DH makes sense at 19 mill with how's he's been playing this year and anticipated further decline next year. I just can't see how some team wouldn't value him "Enough" to get something rather than nothing for him given the circumstances the team finds itself in currently. The Pham trade also seems odd, the others have some logic to them, and if I stretch, the Pham TB connection to Bloom fills in some gaps there, but JD still on this team after the deadline is the biggest headscratcher. Anyone have some insight into the lack of a JD Trade? Perhaps. Nobody wanted to pay what it would cost for JDM? Better for the sox to keep him then just give him away Bottom line is they basically bought. Keeping JDM when he is declining and there are negative draft implications to keeping him can be read as one form of buying into this team. Yes they traded Vázquez but only because Bloom liked the prospects and probably thinks we can re-sign him in the off season, if he even wants him anymore. Since we got Hosmer and Pham basically for free, and making money by staying competitive is a key part of the team’s viability its fairly defensible.
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Post by kman22 on Aug 2, 2022 21:43:18 GMT -5
Watching MLB Network today, they had a graphic that had basic stats for Mancini and Vazquez this season, and I was surprised that Vazquez had the better surface level stats.
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Post by benzinger on Aug 2, 2022 21:44:55 GMT -5
Since the Sox were(surprisingly) in a spending mood instead of shedding payroll, I wish they would have given Raisel Iglesias a look. The Braves seemingly got him for nothing(basically a salary dump). I think he could have been the closer.
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Post by bannedfromsosh on Aug 2, 2022 22:48:39 GMT -5
Optimistic assessment of the state of the (Sox) union:
- Hosmer for league minimum is akin to what we could hope for from Casas for his first year or two. Now they BOTH give league average production with league minimum salary, covering 1b and DH. - Story at 2B/SS and Devers at 3B, playing near their career norms, offsets the lack of production we might lament from 1B/DH - SS is up in the air. I’m in the camp of people who thinks Bogaerts will sign a stupid deal elsewhere, but the money will be there to sign a 2B/SS to replace a healthy portion of his production. Dansby Swanson comes to mind - The money will also be there to sign Wilson Contreras. I’d make him a top priority in this FA class. - The money will also be there to sign a new OF. Maybe Trey Mancini?
Here’s a very rough draft of what next years team could look like, without spending like drunken sailors, or prematurely blowing our prospect capital away:
1. Duran/Kiké CF 2. Contreras C 3. Story SS 4. Devers 3B 5. Mancini RF 6. Verdugo LF 7. Hosmer 1B 8. Casas DH 9. Swanson 2B
Rotation Sale Paxton Pivetta Whitlock Crawford/Bello
Bullpen Houck Schrieber Winkowski Taylor ….
On paper, probably a 2nd place team if all goes according to plan. More importantly, this plan is not unrealistic wish casting. Throw a Rodon on the staff, and/or a bonafide closer in the pen, and/or a Trea Turner at SS to replace X…..and this team is legit as anyone. The payroll will be there to go THAT crazy too, and maybe Chaim’s pressured into that scenario. Maybe he can trade Casas for a Pablo Lopez now, when he couldn’t before. I’m happy that Hosmer opens up a lot of possibilities if he just does an “ok” job.
I also have a renewed interest in a team I couldn’t stand watching anymore. With the deadline over, I’m at least cheering for them to make a run at the 6th spot with a band of misfit toys. Loved to see Duran speaking up on this topic too….he believes this deadline could galvanize this team to eek into the playoffs. I share that sentiment.
In short. Present is bright. Future is bright.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 0:19:36 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 0:25:06 GMT -5
Optimistic assessment of the state of the (Sox) union: - Hosmer for league minimum is akin to what we could hope for from Casas for his first year or two. Now they BOTH give league average production with league minimum salary, covering 1b and DH. - Story at 2B/SS and Devers at 3B, playing near their career norms, offsets the lack of production we might lament from 1B/DH - SS is up in the air. I’m in the camp of people who thinks Bogaerts will sign a stupid deal elsewhere, but the money will be there to sign a 2B/SS to replace a healthy portion of his production. Dansby Swanson comes to mind - The money will also be there to sign Wilson Contreras. I’d make him a top priority in this FA class. - The money will also be there to sign a new OF. Maybe Trey Mancini? Here’s a very rough draft of what next years team could look like, without spending like drunken sailors, or prematurely blowing our prospect capital away: 1. Duran/Kiké CF 2. Contreras C 3. Story SS 4. Devers 3B 5. Mancini RF 6. Verdugo LF 7. Hosmer 1B 8. Casas DH 9. Swanson 2B Rotation Sale Paxton Pivetta Whitlock Crawford/Bello Bullpen Houck Schrieber Winkowski Taylor …. On paper, probably a 2nd place team if all goes according to plan. More importantly, this plan is not unrealistic wish casting. Throw a Rodon on the staff, and/or a bonafide closer in the pen, and/or a Trea Turner at SS to replace X…..and this team is legit as anyone. The payroll will be there to go THAT crazy too, and maybe Chaim’s pressured into that scenario. Maybe he can trade Casas for a Pablo Lopez now, when he couldn’t before. I’m happy that Hosmer opens up a lot of possibilities if he just does an “ok” job. I also have a renewed interest in a team I couldn’t stand watching anymore. With the deadline over, I’m at least cheering for them to make a run at the 6th spot with a band of misfit toys. Loved to see Duran speaking up on this topic too….he believes this deadline could galvanize this team to eek into the playoffs. I share that sentiment. In short. Present is bright. Future is bright. I like where your heads at, not sure if I trust Mancini in RF though
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2022 0:32:16 GMT -5
That's great - a totally situation-appropriate stance to take. Frankly I think he robbed the Padres and White Sox too, though the stakes weren't very high in those trades.
Bloom has now handled three deadlines. In one they were a seller; in one they were a buyer; in one they were both. It seems like there's nothing dogmatic in the approach; he's just going to be responsive to the situation.
What we still haven't seen is a move where he gives away serious prospect value. That's something the Dodgers and Yankees do, if you're into those ways of doing business. TBD whether Bloom will be willing when the time arises.
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Post by prospectguy34 on Aug 3, 2022 0:53:36 GMT -5
Not sure if JDM is a slam dunk at a QO. They better think twice about it. Hosmer here with Casas up by mid August. DH spot open with two LHB first basemen.
Kind of weird they didn't at least deal him. Maybe they DFA him if the season gets worse and hope someone picks up the salary.
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Post by bosox904 on Aug 3, 2022 5:50:25 GMT -5
You say that, but what does SD get out of this? They must love Groome. This probably has nothing to do with it, but I am 99% sure that back in 2016 our main competition for Groome sliding down to us at 12 was San Diego at 8. It actually may have something to do with it. Preller loves getting guys he missed on. Like Juan Soto who preller almost signed as an amateur.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 3, 2022 6:42:31 GMT -5
This probably has nothing to do with it, but I am 99% sure that back in 2016 our main competition for Groome sliding down to us at 12 was San Diego at 8. It actually may have something to do with it. Preller loves getting guys he missed on. Like Juan Soto who preller almost signed as an amateur. So Preller finally got Groome, which was their biggest acquisition yesterday of course. Did he get anybody else?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 7:32:59 GMT -5
Not sure if JDM is a slam dunk at a QO. They better think twice about it. Hosmer here with Casas up by mid August. DH spot open with two LHB first basemen. Kind of weird they didn't at least deal him. Maybe they DFA him if the season gets worse and hope someone picks up the salary. I give him the QO, worst case scenario he underperforms on a one year deal
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Aug 3, 2022 7:36:20 GMT -5
While they don't have to give QOs to Eovaldi or JD I would think its in their best interests to do so. You never want to waste assets.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 8:09:57 GMT -5
I don't think JD is that close to reaching the QO. He'd be doing a fist pump if he could get that much money this offseason. The spreadsheets are going to give him 2023 projections under 1.5 WAR.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Aug 3, 2022 8:15:33 GMT -5
I don't think JD is that close to reaching the QO. He'd be doing a fist pump if he could get that much money this offseason. The spreadsheets are going to give him 2023 projections under 1.5 WAR. This is my belief as well, I don't see them QO'ing JD. He's just far too likely to accept it and in my mind he's not worth the 19+ Million that it'd cost them, especially another year older. Maybe he goes on a tear the rest of the season we'll see but the last two seasons he's gotten off to hot starts and goes cold. If you ask me Nelson Cruz's deal he got this offseason is what JD is probably looking at, 1 year 15 Million. Cruz is older by a few years but his production last year was rather similar to what JD is doing this year. Definitely give the QO to Eovaldi though, if he accepts then I'd be happy. If he declines I'd take the pick or maybe they can negotiate a 2-3 year deal with him. I wouldn't extend past that though if I was the Sox.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 3, 2022 8:56:40 GMT -5
This is a good lede from Keith Law at the Athletic: "A.J. Preller just stood up, pushed all his chips to the center of the table, then threw a bunch of jewelry, savings bonds and Krugerrands on top of the pile." Also, further down in the piece: "There’s no trophy for having the best farm system, so the Padres have gone from having one of the game’s best over the last five years to what is at least a below-average system, all in the service of building a playoff roster." I wonder if ownership said, either subtly or directly, to Preller, "If the team doesn't make a run this year, you're gone." It will be a talent-laden team if he does get canned (with a ton of trade chips if they do crater), but it will be up to him or his successor to rebuild the farm. Then again, if they get to the League Championship Series or further, he'll prob have another 3-5 years to do it.
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