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Post by kingofthetrill on Aug 3, 2022 9:20:59 GMT -5
If there's a way to make the right trade at the wrong time, we found it.
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Post by evanstonredsox on Aug 3, 2022 12:09:11 GMT -5
BA ranked all 72 prospects traded at the deadline:
21. Valdez 34. Groome 39. Abreu 45. Ferguson 56. Rosier
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Post by kwodes on Aug 3, 2022 12:37:42 GMT -5
According to Fangraphs roster resource page. The estimated lux tax payroll for 2022 is $220.2 million. That would mean us getting under the CBT, but it doesn't seem accurate. Does anyone have a more accurate number?
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 3, 2022 13:16:00 GMT -5
According to Fangraphs roster resource page. The estimated lux tax payroll for 2022 is $220.2 million. That would mean us getting under the CBT, but it doesn't seem accurate. Does anyone have a more accurate number? That page has the Padres paying his pro-rated amount from the beginning of the year AND his entire year (minus the minimum) salary - essentially paying his salary twice. So it's not accurate (unfortunately).
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 3, 2022 13:22:25 GMT -5
BA ranked all 72 prospects traded at the deadline: 21. Valdez 34. Groome 39. Abreu 45. Ferguson 56. Rosier Valdez well above Groome - that's a nice surprise. Serious helium.
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 3, 2022 13:27:43 GMT -5
Half hearted and ineffective. If the keep/sell criterion was comparing the return to the possible QO in 2023 then OK. But if keeping the player keeps you above the tax, so you only get a 4th round pick, then why keep JD or Eovaldi?
It seems pretty important then not to still be trending to be above the tax, in which case the value of JD and Eovaldi is a trade. Refusing to give up means you are hurting your long term goal just for appearances. That’s half hearted. Either punt or don’t.
And trading Vasquez for 2 B value chips rather than a single A- or B+ is just not my preference.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 3, 2022 13:39:29 GMT -5
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Post by kman22 on Aug 3, 2022 13:41:14 GMT -5
Is there any transaction at this point that would lower the tax impact or are we at the it is what it is point?
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2022 13:46:11 GMT -5
Cleveland and Chicago, which were both in a similar borderline spot as the Red Sox, really tanked the trade deadline. Every other AL team benefits.
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Post by redsoxpride34 on Aug 3, 2022 14:08:15 GMT -5
Half hearted and ineffective. If the keep/sell criterion was comparing the return to the possible QO in 2023 then OK. But if keeping the player keeps you above the tax, so you only get a 4th round pick, then why keep JD or Eovaldi? It seems pretty important then not to still be trending to be above the tax, in which case the value of JD and Eovaldi is a trade. Refusing to give up means you are hurting your long term goal just for appearances. That’s half hearted. Either punt or don’t. And trading Vasquez for 2 B value chips rather than a single A- or B+ is just not my preference. My thoughts exactly. Keeping JD and Eovaldi made zero sense being that the sox are still over the luxury tax threshold and will only get a 4th rounder if they decline the qualifying offer. If they got under the tax, they get a 2nd rounder for each of them if they decline and sign elsewhere. If that were the case I could see an argument for holding onto them unless something more valuable was offered. At this point they are still over so could Bloom really not get something more valuable than a 4th rounder for those two? But perhaps even more so, would anyone want to offer either of them a 1yr deal at say 18 million? Given JD's age and drop in production/power and Nate's durability concerns/age, I'd lean towards no both.
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Post by keninten on Aug 3, 2022 14:08:53 GMT -5
Is there any transaction at this point that would lower the tax impact or are we at the it is what it is point? I`m pretty sure trades can still be made but the players couldn`t be put on playoff rosters.
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Post by keninten on Aug 3, 2022 14:12:56 GMT -5
If JD is given a QO and he rejects it, I doubt there would be much of a market for him because of the compensation pick. No way would I give him a QO. Can`t believe he wasn`t traded.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 3, 2022 14:22:13 GMT -5
That sucks Groome was part of the deal for Hosmer
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Post by seamus on Aug 3, 2022 14:27:40 GMT -5
Once it became clear that neither JD nor Nate would yield a sufficiently massive return in terms of prospects, I suspect that the difference in value between a 2nd round compensation pick and a 4th round compensation pick is less than the value of keeping JD and Nate for the playoff push - teams make a lot of money on playoff appearances, after all, and I bet the front office is confident enough in its scouting that they don't mind waiting a few extra rounds. I bet they'd also be fine with both guys accepting the QO (though I doubt either would) given that 1 year deals just aren't very high stakes.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,527
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 3, 2022 14:28:07 GMT -5
I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that Boston is better, but holy shit, NY broke Joey Gallo, like as a person. I was never a fan of his game but JFC, the fans and city did him rotten by all accounts I've seen. Like, I'm not a fan of Dalbec's game particularly, but I don't want/need to make him feel so bad that he doesn't even want to show his face in Boston, I just maybe don't want to see him in the lineup....
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Post by seamus on Aug 3, 2022 14:30:06 GMT -5
That sucks Groome was part of the deal for Hosmer Eh, someone needed to go from the 40-man roster and he just doesn't seem to have plus-stuff or great command at this point. Honestly, it would have been fine as a straight-up Hosmer+cash for Groome swap, and adding in two okay prospects just makes it better.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 19:58:09 GMT -5
theathletic.com/3476111/2022/08/03/inside-red-sox-trade-deadline/Behind a paywall, but it says they were considering trading everyone except Bogaerts and Devers. It sounds to me like they were just fishing for people to make stupid mistakes, and the Astros were the only team to make a stupid mistake. I think there is a pattern where Chaim is loathe to spend 97 cents to buy a dollar when he's managed to do it for forty cents so many times.
Also says Chaim flew out today to smooth things over with the players.
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Post by lostinnewjersey on Aug 3, 2022 20:24:13 GMT -5
I don't get all the agita about the tax threshold and the QO. First, as has been pointed out by many, they probably won't make a QO for Martinez, so it's a moot point; they clearly decided that keeping him for a possible playoff run was worth more than whatever they were being offered on the trade market. For Eovaldi, if they make a QO, and if he declines it, and if another team signs him, and if they're over the threshold (that's a lot of ifs), then they'd get a fourth round comp pick instead of a second round. Big deal.
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Post by homerdante on Aug 3, 2022 20:31:52 GMT -5
theathletic.com/3476111/2022/08/03/inside-red-sox-trade-deadline/Behind a paywall, but it says they were considering trading everyone except Bogaerts and Devers. It sounds to me like they were just fishing for people to make stupid mistakes, and the Astros were the only team to make a stupid mistake. I think there is a pattern where Chaim is loathe to spend 97 cents to buy a dollar when he's managed to do it for forty cents so many times.
Also says Chaim flew out today to smooth things over with the players.
I hope he does not get the Trader Danny reputation where other teams will stop dealing with him...
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 3, 2022 20:35:30 GMT -5
Our grade from the Athletic on what happened during the trade deadline theathletic.com/3471426/2022/08/03/mlb-trade-deadline-grades/Grade: D Trades: Traded C Christian Vázquez to Astros for INF Enmanuel Valdez and OF Wilyer Abreu; acquired OF Tommy Pham from Reds for PTBNL; acquired 1B Eric Hosmer, INF Max Ferguson, OF Corey Rosier and cash considerations from Padres for LHP Jay Groome; traded LHP Jake Diekman to White Sox for C Reese McGuire and PTBNL or cash considerations. The Red Sox were buying and selling at the deadline, but I’m not quite sure I understood their end game. Vázquez was too important in that locker room, and to their pitching staff, to trade him for two position players who were not even rated in the top 20 of the Astros’ farm system. Then, to turn around and acquire left fielder Tommy Pham, when you already have Alex Verdugo in left and J.D. Martinez at designated hitter, just didn’t add up. Trading for Eric Hosmer and taking on some of his salary in return for gaining two prospects made some sense, but it also will block first base prospect Triston Casas and let Bobby Dalbec know he’s not good enough. Hosmer will probably be released in the offseason, which makes me wonder if all of this was worth two mid-level prospects who will never start for you. Dumping Jake Diekman’s multi-year contract was smart. But overall, for a team so close in the wild-card race, trading Vázquez and adding Pham and Hosmer just didn’t add up for me.
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Post by homerdante on Aug 3, 2022 20:42:21 GMT -5
Our grade from the Athletic on what happened during the trade deadline theathletic.com/3471426/2022/08/03/mlb-trade-deadline-grades/Grade: D Trades: Traded C Christian Vázquez to Astros for INF Enmanuel Valdez and OF Wilyer Abreu; acquired OF Tommy Pham from Reds for PTBNL; acquired 1B Eric Hosmer, INF Max Ferguson, OF Corey Rosier and cash considerations from Padres for LHP Jay Groome; traded LHP Jake Diekman to White Sox for C Reese McGuire and PTBNL or cash considerations. The Red Sox were buying and selling at the deadline, but I’m not quite sure I understood their end game. Vázquez was too important in that locker room, and to their pitching staff, to trade him for two position players who were not even rated in the top 20 of the Astros’ farm system. Then, to turn around and acquire left fielder Tommy Pham, when you already have Alex Verdugo in left and J.D. Martinez at designated hitter, just didn’t add up. Trading for Eric Hosmer and taking on some of his salary in return for gaining two prospects made some sense, but it also will block first base prospect Triston Casas and let Bobby Dalbec know he’s not good enough. Hosmer will probably be released in the offseason, which makes me wonder if all of this was worth two mid-level prospects who will never start for you. Dumping Jake Diekman’s multi-year contract was smart. But overall, for a team so close in the wild-card race, trading Vázquez and adding Pham and Hosmer just didn’t add up for me. I don't understand this common response RE: Hosmer by the media. I'm not the worlds biggest Hosmer fan either, so keep that in mind. He's NOT blocking anyone long term. JDM is almost certainly gone next year. In other words, there's a very good chance our DH spot is open for next year. I'm not saying Hosmer is the best candidate for DH by any means, but at near zero dollars, he's an asset you can either dump, or even trade if someone else wants a league average first baseman that costs ~zero. I fail to see how that part of their dealings was bad. Not trading JDM to get under Luxury Tax and likely lose him because you're unlikely to QO him, ok, I get it. moving Vaz and the locker room trouble it's purportedly bringing about, ok, I can hear that, even if I think the chance to get something for him because you're not going to QO him, ever, is a good enough reason. But I'm left scratching my head at how the Hosmer trade in it's final form is bad for this team, blocking Casas, or at this point that Dalbec has any consideration in the teams thinking. Can anyone help me out on this repeatedly horrible take and how it makes sense at all?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,201
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 20:47:59 GMT -5
It completely invalidates their opinion imo
Shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2022 20:50:26 GMT -5
About par for the course with Jim Bowden
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 3, 2022 20:51:38 GMT -5
Our grade from the Athletic on what happened during the trade deadline theathletic.com/3471426/2022/08/03/mlb-trade-deadline-grades/Grade: D Trades: Traded C Christian Vázquez to Astros for INF Enmanuel Valdez and OF Wilyer Abreu; acquired OF Tommy Pham from Reds for PTBNL; acquired 1B Eric Hosmer, INF Max Ferguson, OF Corey Rosier and cash considerations from Padres for LHP Jay Groome; traded LHP Jake Diekman to White Sox for C Reese McGuire and PTBNL or cash considerations. The Red Sox were buying and selling at the deadline, but I’m not quite sure I understood their end game. Vázquez was too important in that locker room, and to their pitching staff, to trade him for two position players who were not even rated in the top 20 of the Astros’ farm system. Then, to turn around and acquire left fielder Tommy Pham, when you already have Alex Verdugo in left and J.D. Martinez at designated hitter, just didn’t add up. Trading for Eric Hosmer and taking on some of his salary in return for gaining two prospects made some sense, but it also will block first base prospect Triston Casas and let Bobby Dalbec know he’s not good enough. Hosmer will probably be released in the offseason, which makes me wonder if all of this was worth two mid-level prospects who will never start for you. Dumping Jake Diekman’s multi-year contract was smart. But overall, for a team so close in the wild-card race, trading Vázquez and adding Pham and Hosmer just didn’t add up for me. Did they get one of their football writers for this article? It's like he doesn't understand platoons and isn't aware that there's also a rightfield. Does the writer think that there's no way to rid yourself of a player with a ~2.2mil guarantee? If Dalbec doesn't know he's not good enough right now, he has some bigger issues to deal with. Thanks for posting soxfan. But this makes me happy I don't bother with an Athletic subscription. Edit: thanks CDJ - I didn't realize it was Bowden. Makes sense now (he may not be aware there is a rightfield).
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,201
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2022 21:14:48 GMT -5
Our grade from the Athletic on what happened during the trade deadline theathletic.com/3471426/2022/08/03/mlb-trade-deadline-grades/Grade: D Trades: Traded C Christian Vázquez to Astros for INF Enmanuel Valdez and OF Wilyer Abreu; acquired OF Tommy Pham from Reds for PTBNL; acquired 1B Eric Hosmer, INF Max Ferguson, OF Corey Rosier and cash considerations from Padres for LHP Jay Groome; traded LHP Jake Diekman to White Sox for C Reese McGuire and PTBNL or cash considerations. The Red Sox were buying and selling at the deadline, but I’m not quite sure I understood their end game. Vázquez was too important in that locker room, and to their pitching staff, to trade him for two position players who were not even rated in the top 20 of the Astros’ farm system. Then, to turn around and acquire left fielder Tommy Pham, when you already have Alex Verdugo in left and J.D. Martinez at designated hitter, just didn’t add up. Trading for Eric Hosmer and taking on some of his salary in return for gaining two prospects made some sense, but it also will block first base prospect Triston Casas and let Bobby Dalbec know he’s not good enough. Hosmer will probably be released in the offseason, which makes me wonder if all of this was worth two mid-level prospects who will never start for you. Dumping Jake Diekman’s multi-year contract was smart. But overall, for a team so close in the wild-card race, trading Vázquez and adding Pham and Hosmer just didn’t add up for me. Did they get one of their football writers for this article? It's like he doesn't understand platoons and isn't aware that there's also a rightfield. Does the writer think that there's no way to rid yourself of a player with a ~2.2mil guarantee? If Dalbec doesn't know he's not good enough right now, he has some bigger issues to deal with. Thanks for posting soxfan. But this makes me happy I don't bother with an Athletic subscription. Edit: thanks CDJ - I didn't realize it was Bowden. Makes sense now (he may not be aware there is a rightfield). Had no idea it was Bowden and that really explains a lot
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