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7/11-7/14 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 13, 2022 10:09:18 GMT -5
We are poor at 3/9 positions. Rankings by WAR
1B 29th CF 23 RF 25
Our outfield stinks. We need a 1b and RF. Can’t count on Casas this year. A rental at 1b. But, we need a RF too. We don’t have anyone to play RF next year. Trade for a player we can control. Renfroe trade looks terrible. I have Ceddanne replacing Duran in CF by this time next year. We’ll have to live with Duran and JBJ as a defensive substitute this year.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 13, 2022 10:42:15 GMT -5
We are poor at 3/9 positions. Rankings by WAR 1B 29th CF 23 RF 25 Our outfield stinks. We need a 1b and RF. Can’t count on Casas this year. A rental at 1b. But, we need a RF too. We don’t have anyone to play RF next year. Trade for a player we can control. Renfroe trade looks terrible. I have Ceddanne replacing Duran in CF by myself his time next year. We’ll have to live with Duran and JBJ as a defensive substitute this year. Renfroe fWAR - 0.9. Refsnyder fWAR - 0.7. On a per game basis he's way ahead. Even if you say that Refsnyder still would have been up and Renfroe just would have taken JBJs appearances, I don't see any world where having him would be improving our playoff odds. I'd argue there's a decent chance that for the playoffs they'll be better off having JBJ as a defensive replacement than Renfroe as a starter.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Jul 13, 2022 11:02:10 GMT -5
I just heard Story is okay, out for few days, hopefully back vs the Yankees.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Jul 13, 2022 11:05:11 GMT -5
I just heard Story is okay, out for few days, hopefully back vs the Yankees. Stats!!!
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 13, 2022 11:35:20 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Jul 13, 2022 11:37:00 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jul 13, 2022 11:48:09 GMT -5
Two huge (non)breaks. I was definitely worried about Story. That looked like the kind of HBP that breaks some little bone in the hand.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 13, 2022 12:14:41 GMT -5
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,011
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Post by mobaz on Jul 13, 2022 12:23:44 GMT -5
Two huge (non)breaks. I was definitely worried about Story. That looked like the kind of HBP that breaks some little bone in the hand. No kidding. How often does that pitch become 4-6 weeks that stretch to 8 but he's not REALLY effective again until next season?
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Post by incandenza on Jul 13, 2022 12:33:34 GMT -5
I was hoping to see a between-the-lines message to the effect of: "after losing Betts, we realize we have to keep at least one of Bogaerts or Devers, and Bloom understands that." But I did not see that.
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Post by notstarboard on Jul 13, 2022 14:46:53 GMT -5
I was hoping to see a between-the-lines message to the effect of: "after losing Betts, we realize we have to keep at least one of Bogaerts or Devers, and Bloom understands that." But I did not see that. I think the nod to Betts was more in the "We’ve signed players where it’s really worked out. We’ve signed others that, it’s our job to try to sign the right players. Frankly, over the last 20 years, we haven’t done it [every time], so we’ve had to break teams up." Whether Xander and Devers are the right players is an open question. If they're not the right players, though, they could result in us not holding onto the next Mookie.
I think trading Mookie was unquestionably the right decision. There were many wrong decisions that put us in the position of having to do that, though, and Henry seems as aware of that as anyone from his comments here.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 13, 2022 15:08:33 GMT -5
"The Sox have retained other franchise players in that time. Most notably, the team repeatedly re-signed David Ortiz and ensured that others retired as Red Sox after more than a decade in the organization, a group that includes Dustin Pedroia, Jason Varitek, and Tim Wakefield."
Also, remember they got all of these guys at below-market discounts. So, sure, they'll extend you, but not near, at or above market price.
“It takes two to make a deal. I think it’s clear both of them want to be here. We want them here,” said Henry.
This sounds almost word-for-word the spin before the Lester trade. Gross.
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Post by manfred on Jul 13, 2022 15:08:35 GMT -5
I’d say today’s lineup is example A of “not how it was drawn up.” Who had Refsnyder leading off, Downs in for Story, and Winck starting in their opening season bingo cards?
Just tread water.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 13, 2022 15:11:06 GMT -5
I’d say today’s lineup is example A of “not how it was drawn up.” Who had Refsnyder leading off, Downs in for Story, and Winck starting in their opening season bingo cards? Just tread water. "Treading water" would mean being where we were coming into the series - not sinking, not advancing. That means winning the next two very difficult games after pissing away two extremely winnable games.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jul 13, 2022 15:19:32 GMT -5
McClanahan is in the running for best pitcher in baseball right now
Not feeling great about tonight
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,111
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Post by jimoh on Jul 13, 2022 15:22:17 GMT -5
We are poor at 3/9 positions. Rankings by WAR 1B 29th CF 23 RF 25 Our outfield stinks. We need a 1b and RF. Can’t count on Casas this year. A rental at 1b. But, we need a RF too. We don’t have anyone to play RF next year. Trade for a player we can control. Renfroe trade looks terrible. I have Ceddanne replacing Duran in CF by this time next year. We’ll have to live with Duran and JBJ as a defensive substitute this year. Yikes, Cedanne’s not-ready-for-prime-time approach to hitting means he has a lot to learn before making it to Fenway.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,497
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Post by nomar on Jul 13, 2022 15:23:10 GMT -5
McClanahan is in the running for best pitcher in baseball right now Not feeling great about tonight Just crunched the numbers and it is statistically impossible for the Red Sox to win tonight. Can’t wait to decide how to spend those extra 3 hours.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 13, 2022 15:24:34 GMT -5
I was hoping to see a between-the-lines message to the effect of: "after losing Betts, we realize we have to keep at least one of Bogaerts or Devers, and Bloom understands that." But I did not see that. I think the nod to Betts was more in the "Weâve signed players where itâs really worked out. Weâve signed others that, itâs our job to try to sign the right players. Frankly, over the last 20 years, we havenât done it [every time], so weâve had to break teams up." Whether Xander and Devers are the right players is an open question. If they're not the right players, though, they could result in us not holding onto the next Mookie.
I think trading Mookie was unquestionably the right decision. There were many wrong decisions that put us in the position of having to do that, though, and Henry seems as aware of that as anyone from his comments here.
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers.
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Post by notstarboard on Jul 13, 2022 15:33:36 GMT -5
I think the nod to Betts was more in the "Weâve signed players where itâs really worked out. Weâve signed others that, itâs our job to try to sign the right players. Frankly, over the last 20 years, we havenât done it [every time], so weâve had to break teams up." Whether Xander and Devers are the right players is an open question. If they're not the right players, though, they could result in us not holding onto the next Mookie.
I think trading Mookie was unquestionably the right decision. There were many wrong decisions that put us in the position of having to do that, though, and Henry seems as aware of that as anyone from his comments here.
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. I buy that. I don't have that level of allegiance to players anymore, but I also bet I'm in the minority among fans. I do think the Sox will try hard to bring back Devers, though, given the combination of low amounts of committed $, his age, his production, and his marketability in Boston. Bogaerts I'm not so sure about. I'd love to have him back, but at a fair market value, not at "I'm totally going to stick at SS and my bat is totally not going to decline for the next 8 years, so you're going to pay me" value.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 13, 2022 15:42:58 GMT -5
I think the nod to Betts was more in the "Weâve signed players where itâs really worked out. Weâve signed others that, itâs our job to try to sign the right players. Frankly, over the last 20 years, we havenât done it [every time], so weâve had to break teams up." Whether Xander and Devers are the right players is an open question. If they're not the right players, though, they could result in us not holding onto the next Mookie. I think trading Mookie was unquestionably the right decision. There were many wrong decisions that put us in the position of having to do that, though, and Henry seems as aware of that as anyone from his comments here.
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. Remember, the "Tampa Way" according to that article from the Athletic we posted earlier in the year, is to be supportive of the players while they're hear but to be "ruthless" letting them go when the organization believes the timing is right for the organization to move on, even when a player is approaching his prime. They also go through pitchers like toilet paper.
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Post by manfred on Jul 13, 2022 15:48:23 GMT -5
I think the nod to Betts was more in the "Weâve signed players where itâs really worked out. Weâve signed others that, itâs our job to try to sign the right players. Frankly, over the last 20 years, we havenât done it [every time], so weâve had to break teams up." Whether Xander and Devers are the right players is an open question. If they're not the right players, though, they could result in us not holding onto the next Mookie.
I think trading Mookie was unquestionably the right decision. There were many wrong decisions that put us in the position of having to do that, though, and Henry seems as aware of that as anyone from his comments here.
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. Totally agree. But even thinking financially… if you take the 2018 roster, subtract Mookie, X, Devers, and JDM, add Story and Verdugo… you have a lot of production to make up for. Maybe some comes cheap from within (Casas and Downs?), but that still leaves a LOT. And that won’t come at a discount. So if you don’t sign those guys, who do you sign?
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Post by notstarboard on Jul 13, 2022 15:50:52 GMT -5
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. Remember, the "Tampa Way" according to that article from the Athletic we posted earlier in the year, is to be supportive of the players while they're hear but to be "ruthless" letting them go when the organization believes the timing is right for the organization to move on, even when a player is approaching his prime. They also go through pitchers like toilet paper. I would like to see the Sox mostly do this, although the occasional splurge for a useful and known quantity makes sense too. If a trading partner is willing to overpay for one of your players, you do it, even if your player is in their prime. The only possible exceptions would be the elitest of the elite players who aren't exactly replaceable. Then you need to weigh your ability to put a team around them too, like, there's not much sense in signing Mike Trout for $430 million (as opposed to trading him) if that means you'll never be able to put a team around him, but if you think you can, you probably do, unless the overpay via trade is actually ludicrous.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 13, 2022 15:51:47 GMT -5
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. I buy that. I don't have that level of allegiance to players anymore, but I also bet I'm in the minority among fans. I do think the Sox will try hard to bring back Devers, though, given the combination of low amounts of committed $, his age, his production, and his marketability in Boston. Bogaerts I'm not so sure about. I'd love to have him back, but at a fair market value, not at "I'm totally going to stick at SS and my bat is totally not going to decline for the next 8 years, so you're going to pay me" value. I don't think it's hypothetical really. It was reported that they offered Devers a $200 million+ deal but that Devers wanted more years; also that they offered to tack one year and $30 million onto the remainder of Bogaerts contract through 2026. One of those is a serious effort to keep the player, the other is not.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jul 13, 2022 15:54:17 GMT -5
The thing is, in some rationally maximizing sense, it might have been the right move to trade Mookie, and it might be the right move to let Xander go, and Devers as well, if he's intent on testing the market. And yet losing all three of those guys would suuuuck. It would suck SO bad. As a fan, I don't really care if they lose three or four fewer games over the next seven years because they kept Devers, say, rather than investing in the next round of Kiké and Wacha and Verdugo or whatever. I'd rather just root for Devers. Remember, the "Tampa Way" according to that article from the Athletic we posted earlier in the year, is to be supportive of the players while they're hear but to be "ruthless" letting them go when the organization believes the timing is right for the organization to move on, even when a player is approaching his prime. They also go through pitchers like toilet paper. That's also the Belichick way and somehow New England fans can live with it. But also, Tampa HAS to be that way in order to succeed, the Red Sox don't, maybe they will anyway, but we'll see. The Red Sox reportedly already offered Devers $200M, so I'm willing to give it a little time before I'm certain that Bloom will never resign a player.
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Post by philip on Jul 13, 2022 16:07:26 GMT -5
That’s why they traded renfro for Bradley to get their hands on binelas the next 3rd basemen for the Red Sox. A defense trade.
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