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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 24, 2022 21:45:23 GMT -5
Awesome. What a burst of momentum that was. Wow. Fun in Foxboro. Gotta like that. That post didn't age well. Awful defense. They got their butts kicked. Good times at Foxboro were short lived. Still prefer Zappe to Jones at this point.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 24, 2022 21:56:14 GMT -5
Stick a fork in this season.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Oct 24, 2022 22:12:24 GMT -5
Everybody is saying the Bears are horrendous. they played well. the Patriots played horrendous.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2022 23:39:36 GMT -5
They lost because Stephen Belichick had no answer for Justin Fields he looked like Lamar Jackson out there. Pats had momentum defense gave it back to Bears. Not saying Stephen Belichick was the only reason but he was a big part.
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Post by marrcus on Oct 25, 2022 1:25:08 GMT -5
So what did the QB uncertainty have to do with a slow confused defense? Nothing really but it didn't help the gameplan which likely carried over to the D which couldn't stop Fields. The guessing game with the press was stupid. In the end they played favorites.
This was pretty easy to figure out. Zappe should have stayed utill he lost or Mac had picked things up in practice to the point where he made them start him again. Both these QBs throw lollypop passes when they have to throw, down a score. If they can't run depend on pay-action and get good D early, they probably aren't going to pass their way to a W.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 25, 2022 7:51:09 GMT -5
Schefter reported before the game to not be surprised if we saw both QB’s and I’ll write here what I wrote elsewhere at the time:
“Yeah hate the idea of splitting reps. All splitting reps will do is cause this chorus to get louder”
Patriots playing 4D chess once again smdh
Mac is QB1, I saw enough in the second half to make that conclusion.
It’s concerning that Patricia and Judge came in and he’s regressed though
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Post by costpet on Oct 25, 2022 7:53:13 GMT -5
Bad day in every phase of the game. Special teams were horrible. Offense couldn't do much of anything. Defense was nonexistent. The worse game I have seen in 20 years. After the last couple of games, I was getting excited. Now this.
I like Zappe, but he's so short it's easy to see why several of his passes were swatted down. That could be a long term problem.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 25, 2022 9:03:43 GMT -5
I didn't like Jones getting pulled. I know this could be a learning experience for him, but dude he threw like 6 passes lol. He has more of a track record and pedigree than Zappe, feels like a case where everyone is getting carried away by a grass is greener scenario. The downside of wasting a year of Jones and Zappe being not very good is just too much for me to grasp what the fuck they're doing right now.
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Post by bigmarty58 on Oct 25, 2022 11:47:54 GMT -5
The QB mess the team is in started when BB decided not to replace McDaniel with another OQ. It got worse when Mac got hurt and a green kid came in to stay the course. What happened last night is simply unbelievable from an experienced HC. The reaction from Myers was honest and to the point and I give him credit for sticking up for a team mate. BB needs to look up what trust means in the dictionary, his head has gotten too big for his own good!
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 25, 2022 11:54:37 GMT -5
The QB mess the team is in started when BB decided not to replace McDaniel with another OQ. It got worse when Mac got hurt and a green kid came in to stay the course. What happened last night is simply unbelievable from an experienced HC. The reaction from Myers was honest and to the point and I give him credit for sticking up for a team mate. BB needs to look up what trust means in the dictionary, his head has gotten too big for his own good! Kinda agree. Was handled atrociously. Either Mac is ready or he’s not. That schefter report from pregame about both getting reps was insane to me and the process played out about as badly as it possibly could’ve. Mac gets more or less humiliated on national television and then Zappe comes in and plays like ass after his hot start (which was some quick reads, a good ball to Parker and a bad ball on a busted coverage that Jakobi saved him from looking awful on). This isn’t training camp, what are we even doing?? Worst possible outcome tbh Talent-wise this team is Judon Everybody else Isaiah Wynn, Myles Bryant
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 25, 2022 12:41:03 GMT -5
The bigger issue was the D allowing Bears to hold ball for over 37 minutes. It was like a horrible offense turned into the Eagles with Foles, everything they did worked. I don't know what happened there, yet that has to be fixed.
The Bears weakness on D is rushing D, yet if your offense can't stop them it requires to change things up.
I don't know what Bill was thinking. I can get behind starting Mac Jones or Zappe. Yet you need to pick and stick with the guy unless it gets crazy. Both young QBs and they need full QB1 reps, not them being split. Basically in my mind, only way this makes sense is if you want Zappe going forward. Had to give Mac his chance. Yet if that's the case, you name Zappe starter now. A QB controversy isn't good for the team. Still shocked they pulled Mac Jones like that. I would have just started Zappe. Bill has created a mess and he has to fix it.
I really don't know who I would pick. I can understand the its Mac Jones or Zappe. There's pluses and minuses for both of them. One thing is clear though, Zappe either is a better fit in this offense or has learned it quicker than Mac Jones. With Zappe it's he is a rookie, with questions about his arm strength, yet it's not horrible. Mac Jones just looks lost, where's the guy who makes the right smart play most times? He's throwing bombs to Junnu Smith? Same offensive plan for both QBs this week. I'm beginning to believe the endless reports about Mac Jones not being happy might be true. Yet I have a huge problem with that because Zappe is picking up the system and doing well in it.
Bill has created one huge shit show and he better fix it. Everything combined that might be Bills worst coaching performance if not ever, in a long time.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 25, 2022 13:32:40 GMT -5
Agreed that the biggest problem was the defense overall. They couldn’t get off the field against a QB and an offense they should have dominated.
Every time they broke contain an angel lost its wings last night. Lotta dead angels on the ground
The way this team will win is strong defense and smart QB’ing. When the strong defense isn’t present it doesn’t really matter what happens with the QB’s decision making, they’re probably not gonna win the game
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Post by texs31 on Oct 25, 2022 14:40:58 GMT -5
On the QB situation 2021 Mac Jones is SIGNIFICANTLY better than 2022 Bailey Zappe (who is playing better than 2022 Mac Jones - though there are many who believe that it's not as significant as the stats would indicate). So, as UMASS asks, where did 2021 Mac Jones go and can he be found again. If he can be, that's the ideal scenario.
The main problems from last night can be attributed, at least partially, to the talent at certain positions (gotta give UMASS credit for leading the charge on these - though few disagreed):
Offensive Tackles - We all know Wynn has been terrible and, yet, Brown might have had one of the worst games I've seen from any starting caliber tackle the Pats have had in a while. That was brutal. It was a miss not adding someone there
Linebacker - My amateur brain would tie the success Fields had running here (someone smarter than me could certainly tell me otherwise - missing Barmore, for example, couldn't have helped). I thought they'd be better here but no (or not yet, at least). He's more of an edge but could Uche have helped here??
They need to figure the above positions out as part of next year's offseason (cap room and draft capital). Just not sure it can be done in season (unless Cajuste comes back from IR and can offer SOMETHING??)
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 25, 2022 17:14:40 GMT -5
I thought Trent was good weeks 2-6 and was abysmal in weeks 1 and 7. He didn’t show up to play last night, he was an offense killer
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2022 6:42:48 GMT -5
Late yesterday and into this morning, there has been some Zapruder-like analysis of whether or not Mac Jones' interception hit a camera wire or not.
TBH, I'm not sure why it really matters. Much like many (including myself) have been saying the result (TDs) only tell part of the story with Zappe, to be consistent, we should say the same thing with Mac. It was a BAD decision to throw that ball. And that has been a problem all year. Whether it actually led to an INT or not doesn't change the issue.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 26, 2022 8:28:57 GMT -5
It hit the wire, yet that doesn't change much like Texas said. Last year he throws that ball away.
I'm more confused now than after the game having gone through all reports. Who literally plans to play two QBs if one isn't healthy enough to play the whole game? How doesn't the other offensive player know?
Report Bill destroyed two QBs in one game literally makes sense. If Mac wasn't 100% you play Zappe. If Zappe was going to play he needed to get all QB one reps and to start.
Could have been a different game if Zappe starts and does something on those first 3 possessions.
He's doing the worst thing by leaving uncertainty and what are they again splitting first team reps?
I know he doesn't give much information to the media it's his thing, yet the players need to know who the starting QB is!
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Oct 26, 2022 10:01:23 GMT -5
Can't see how it could have possibly been handled worse in any area. Bill really gummed this up for no reason, and now the team is at an inflection point it never needed to be at right now.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 26, 2022 12:01:06 GMT -5
If this season was being coached by Matt Patricia, this would be a borderline fireable game. Arguably the worst game of Bill's career. They treated this game like the fans did, as if it was just a glorified pre-season game because all they need to do is show up to win.
Mac being pulled was terrible. Zappe admitted he learned Mac was starting when we did so Bill was obviously lying about the game plan, but even if he wasn't, you don't pull your starter after a pick unless you intend to change starters moving forward. It's a horrible look. Mac looked terrible, but the OL committing a penalty every other play didn't help him. Zappe got them back in the game. He looked very good, until he wasn't. I would say that maybe pulling the starter and throwing him out there like that and the defense playing like they're the Lions might have contributed to Zappe unraveling. The Patriots not being able to run the ball was also detrimental to both QBs.
Just an all-round poorly coached game that failed on all three phases.
I'm a Zappe guy, but even I concede you don't pull Mac unless you're ready to move forward with the other guy. I would have started Zappe until he failed, then go to Mac and blame it on injury for as long as you can.
This is becoming a talking point as well, can Bill coach against mobile QBs?
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Post by dcb26 on Oct 26, 2022 12:25:24 GMT -5
My take was that this was to make a point to Jones. He got the start, but then did or handled something in a way Bill didn't like - not throwing a pick in and of itself, but maybe the decision-making that went into that play, or maybe something completely unrelated - and was pulled as a result.
To be clear this is just my personal 2 cents, and even if that is the reason I don't think it means much in the long run. The more of Zappe we see, though, the more I will wonder.
Also possible Jones was simply more hurt than they/we/he thought, although I feel like even Belichick would have said at least something if that was the case.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2022 12:58:37 GMT -5
Cajuste practicing so the clock to return has started.
Vizcaino back to practice squad. Seems to be replacing LaBryan Ray there (not sure if he's released or headed to IR).
This reported by Zack Cox (NESN)
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Post by bigmarty58 on Oct 26, 2022 13:54:00 GMT -5
If this season was being coached by Matt Patricia, this would be a borderline fireable game. Arguably the worst game of Bill's career. They treated this game like the fans did, as if it was just a glorified pre-season game because all they need to do is show up to win. Mac being pulled was terrible. Zappe admitted he learned Mac was starting when we did so Bill was obviously lying about the game plan, but even if he wasn't, you don't pull your starter after a pick unless you intend to change starters moving forward. It's a horrible look. Mac looked terrible, but the OL committing a penalty every other play didn't help him. Zappe got them back in the game. He looked very good, until he wasn't. I would say that maybe pulling the starter and throwing him out there like that and the defense playing like they're the Lions might have contributed to Zappe unraveling. The Patriots not being able to run the ball was also detrimental to both QBs. Just an all-round poorly coached game that failed on all three phases. I'm a Zappe guy, but even I concede you don't pull Mac unless you're ready to move forward with the other guy. I would have started Zappe until he failed, then go to Mac and blame it on injury for as long as you can. This is becoming a talking point as well, can Bill coach against mobile QBs? Agree with your assessment and insight. Hard to believe this is the same head coach that won six championships.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2022 15:18:43 GMT -5
Mac Jones off the injury report, took 90% of the snaps today and is expected to start on Sunday (per everybody - think Yates was first)
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Post by texs31 on Oct 26, 2022 15:46:28 GMT -5
Ray to PS - IR per Ray (not sure if there is a difference between that and regular IR - in terms of whether he can return in some form - or not)
Per Reiss
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Post by texs31 on Oct 27, 2022 10:33:33 GMT -5
Per various reports, Patriot receiving trade inquiries on:
Wynn Bourne Agholor Parker Peppers Harris
Kyed, specifically, said they aren't shopping Peppers/Harris. I would add, he's the first I've seen on Parker but it's not shocking that they're getting asked.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 27, 2022 20:50:53 GMT -5
I'd trade Agholor for a 7th round pick swap if a team would pick up most of his salary.
Unless Wynn is acting out I likely don't trade him. You likely have to pay most of his salary and he's still depth. I question moving him to RT versus trading him. Yet if Brown get injured or even Cannon he has the ability to play at a high level, even if he's sucked so far.
Unless you do something high unlikely like go after Claypool, I'm not trading Bourne.
I'm not considering Parker, Harris or Peppers. We have plenty of picks next year.
I'd say go after a LB like Smith, yet Unless they figure crap out I don't know if it even makes sense. Up till last game I felt good about the team. Last game was disaster on so many levels it likely doesn't make sense. Which is a shame.
The most important move is not playing Bryant, who got picked last game for two huge plays yet again.
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