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Post by philarhody on Feb 4, 2023 10:40:20 GMT -5
I went to the game last night. I cannot emphasize the complete lack of energy and urgency that Jayson Tatum played with to start the game. I’ve never seen a player of such prodigious talent who coasts like he does. It’s Hardenish. Very hard to watch a transcendent talent take quarters off like he does.
Jaylen doesn’t possess half of the feel or basketball iq that Jayson does, but he plays with force far more consistently and has a strong mindset.
I think it’s really hard to play consistent, awesome basketball when your best player is the 6th or 7th best leader on the team.
Look at Milwaukee and you’ll see a team with 5 or 6 rotation guys who wouldn’t see the floor for Boston. But Giannis is so consistently competitive, the bit guys simply ride his wake. If Jayson can get to that consistent competitiveness we saw to start the season, the Celtics will be a dynasty. If he doesn’t get there, there’s probably a lot more playoff flameouts on the horizon. It’s too much to ask Derrick White and Brogdon to carry you to a championship for a quarter and a half.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 4, 2023 16:41:21 GMT -5
I went to the game last night. I cannot emphasize the complete lack of energy and urgency that Jayson Tatum played with to start the game. I’ve never seen a player of such prodigious talent who coasts like he does. It’s Hardenish. Very hard to watch a transcendent talent take quarters off like he does. Jaylen doesn’t possess half of the feel or basketball iq that Jayson does, but he plays with force far more consistently and has a strong mindset. I think it’s really hard to play consistent, awesome basketball when your best player is the 6th or 7th best leader on the team. Look at Milwaukee and you’ll see a team with 5 or 6 rotation guys who wouldn’t see the floor for Boston. But Giannis is so consistently competitive, the bit guys simply ride his wake. If Jayson can get to that consistent competitiveness we saw to start the season, the Celtics will be a dynasty. If he doesn’t get there, there’s probably a lot more playoff flameouts on the horizon. It’s too much to ask Derrick White and Brogdon to carry you to a championship for a quarter and a half. I’m gonna have to push back on that comparison quite a bit - even in a game like last night, Tatum’s defensive effort on defense is miles ahead of even a good night from Harden. I’m not disagreeing with your general point, but I don’t think we should discount how many minutes Tatum has been getting lately. This was an issue last year, and Mazzulla has done a really poor job in that regard. I also think Tatum is one of those athletes who makes things look so easy that it comes off as not trying. Jaylen has plenty of stretches where he isn’t bringing it, but it doesn’t look as striking as Tatum’s moments. |
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Post by philarhody on Feb 5, 2023 0:18:16 GMT -5
I went to the game last night. I cannot emphasize the complete lack of energy and urgency that Jayson Tatum played with to start the game. I’ve never seen a player of such prodigious talent who coasts like he does. It’s Hardenish. Very hard to watch a transcendent talent take quarters off like he does. Jaylen doesn’t possess half of the feel or basketball iq that Jayson does, but he plays with force far more consistently and has a strong mindset. I think it’s really hard to play consistent, awesome basketball when your best player is the 6th or 7th best leader on the team. Look at Milwaukee and you’ll see a team with 5 or 6 rotation guys who wouldn’t see the floor for Boston. But Giannis is so consistently competitive, the bit guys simply ride his wake. If Jayson can get to that consistent competitiveness we saw to start the season, the Celtics will be a dynasty. If he doesn’t get there, there’s probably a lot more playoff flameouts on the horizon. It’s too much to ask Derrick White and Brogdon to carry you to a championship for a quarter and a half. I’m gonna have to push back on that comparison quite a bit - even in a game like last night, Tatum’s defensive effort on defense is miles ahead of even a good night from Harden. I’m not disagreeing with your general point, but I don’t think we should discount how many minutes Tatum has been getting lately. This was an issue last year, and Mazzulla has done a really poor job in that regard. I also think Tatum is one of those athletes who makes things look so easy that it comes off as not trying. Jaylen has plenty of stretches where he isn’t bringing it, but it doesn’t look as striking as Tatum’s moments. Yeah, I hope we look back on this time in Tatum’s career and say “that was a 24 year old kid who was still developing the mindset of a top 15 player of all time.” It’s not worth getting hung up on the Harden comparison from a basketball standpoint. The Harden comparison has nothing to do with results on the court. Tatum is such a prodigious talent, he can sulk and not close out or run back on defense, and still be a plus defender off his instincts and length alone. The problem from where I see it is mindset. He’s more talented than Kobe. The only player with his combination of skill and size has been KD, who’s a top 15 player of all time and is a couple untimely injuries away from being a 4-time NBA champion. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2023 12:58:30 GMT -5
Celtic team stats 3 point attempts 2nd, 3 point percentage 9th, 2 point attempts 29th, 2 point percentage 6th, free throw attempts 22nd, FT percentage 1st, turnovers 6th and Offensive rebounding 23rd.
Tatum 9.4 3pa per game at 35.5%, 12.2 2pa at 54.8%
Brown 7.7 3pa at 33.4%, 12.8 2pa at 55.2%
Smart 5.3 3pa at 33.3%, 4.1 2pa at 51.5%
Those are your top 3 guys per attempts on 3 point shots, 22.4 on average per game. Last year league average was 35.4%, this year its 36.0%. All three have a below league average percentage. That's 25.4% of your shot attempts per game.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 5, 2023 13:23:05 GMT -5
Nets said they are benching Kyrie until they can trade him before the deadline… guess they plan to move him no matter what… what break for the Celtics, as the Nets, fully healthy, looked like a problem. Of course, careful what you wish for as he’s good enough to turn another team into a favorite if he’s properly motivated.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 5, 2023 13:26:09 GMT -5
Rumors are the Celtics are interested in Noel… my question is why?
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2023 14:40:25 GMT -5
Rumors are the Celtics are interested in Noel… my question is why? poor man’s Timelord, good insurance. I’d play him over Kornet |
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Post by texs31 on Feb 5, 2023 15:03:02 GMT -5
Mavs getting Kyrie, per Shams
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2023 15:08:29 GMT -5
Can’t wait to see the Cuban/Kyrie dynamic
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Post by jmei on Feb 5, 2023 15:10:14 GMT -5
Pretty meh return. Nets must have been fed up with his act and desperate to get him out of town.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 5, 2023 15:13:52 GMT -5
Pretty meh return. Nets must have been fed up with his act and desperate to get him out of town. Their choices were to: 1. Pay him a 4 year max with no contract stipulations 2. Keep him and have him sit out for the rest of the year anyways 3. Trade him for a couple nickels. At least they traded him to a place he probably doesn’t want to be. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 5, 2023 15:31:19 GMT -5
tbh I don’t think this makes the nets much worse. They’ve got Durant as the only star but they’re very deep with quality rotation players
I like DFS a lot as a 3+D guy and Dinwiddie is Dinwiddie. Just a solid guard.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 5, 2023 16:05:25 GMT -5
Pretty meh return. Nets must have been fed up with his act and desperate to get him out of town. If the pick is unprotected then it's a damn good deal for 3 months of Kyrie. Edit: upon some reflection on this, I think "damn good" deal was a bit of an exaggeration lol but it's not a bad deal. Every team in the league knows by now that Kyrie is an a**hole and the Nets probably had to pick between Dinwiddie and Westbrook and whew Dinwiddie is probably the better pick. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 5, 2023 16:51:50 GMT -5
A 2029 unprotected pick could be very valuable. That whole team is one player and the chances he demands out before 2029 is rather high no? They have one good young player in Green.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 5, 2023 18:36:06 GMT -5
A 2029 unprotected pick could be very valuable. That whole team is one player and the chances he demands out before 2029 is rather high no? They have one good young player in Green. Hard to say - Cuban is a different type of owner and the players typically do love it there. Also, Dirk was there his whole career - that may matter to Luka. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 6, 2023 8:29:16 GMT -5
Pretty meh return. Nets must have been fed up with his act and desperate to get him out of town. If the pick is unprotected then it's a damn good deal for 3 months of Kyrie. Edit: upon some reflection on this, I think "damn good" deal was a bit of an exaggeration lol but it's not a bad deal. Every team in the league knows by now that Kyrie is an a**hole and the Nets probably had to pick between Dinwiddie and Westbrook and whew Dinwiddie is probably the better pick. From the Dallas side, I get it. That team was in no man's land. It definitely won't work out, but as the song goes, it's better to burn out than to fade away. At least they are trying something, and Dinwiddie and DFS are guys who should be your 4th to 6th best players, not 2/3 (not that that changes much now for them Brooklyn). If anything the competition proves Kyrie has value and even if it does flame out there could be a sign-and-trade possibility. Listen, all this is so dumb because Dallas could have had Brunson for 4/55 or at worst matched his Knicks contract. Kyrie moves the needle from stuck in the middle to "could get hot for a few rounds." Still I'd be pissed as a Dallas fan since that guy is a turd and who wants to root for him. |
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Post by texs31 on Feb 6, 2023 8:47:45 GMT -5
This excerpt from Hollinger's trade fallout piece made me laugh: "The odds of Irving just settling down and playing a couple of normal basketball seasons seem fairly minimal at this point. Irving is a walking distraction. He can’t help himself. At some point, he’s going to start tweeting conspiracy theories about the Adams-Onís Treaty or openly questioning why the Mavs run so many plays for this Dončić guy or sitting out games to show solidarity with domesticated alpacas. He’s shown us, over and over, this is who he is." theathletic.com/4158681/2023/02/06/kyrie-irving-trade-fallout-nets-mavericks/ |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 6, 2023 9:56:36 GMT -5
Rumors are the Celtics are interested in Noel… my question is why? Elite on D, 5 straight years of plus 3 or more defensive box score. If I had to guess I'd say doing leg work if he gets bought out. Which would seem likely if he's not traded and that would be a great move. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 6, 2023 10:14:00 GMT -5
A 2029 unprotected pick could be very valuable. That whole team is one player and the chances he demands out before 2029 is rather high no? They have one good young player in Green. Hard to say - Cuban is a different type of owner and the players typically do love it there. Also, Dirk was there his whole career - that may matter to Luka. He's also traded Jason Kidd, didn't pay Steve Nash and recently didn't pay Brunson. Yeah you never know, yet in my book the 2029 pick is a lot more valuable because you don't know over say a 2025 pick, the nearest pick they could trade. I love Cubans passion, not a fan of the way he builds teams. He doesn't develop young talent and is always making trades trying to shake things up. Woods trade is brilliant, KP and Irving trades not so much. Zero long-term vision, I'd hate that if I was Luka. |
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Post by texs31 on Feb 6, 2023 16:42:47 GMT -5
Irving deal hasn't been announced yet bc Brooklyn is trying to expand it to include a 3rd team. Most commonly heard name appears to be FVV. (I guess those are initials, not a name).  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 20:07:23 GMT -5
Good showcase for Hauser right before trade deadline if that's what Stevens trying to do I hope not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 20:15:10 GMT -5
Irving deal hasn't been announced yet bc Brooklyn is trying to expand it to include a 3rd team. Most commonly heard name appears to be FVV. (I guess those are initials, not a name). They're trying to get Fred Vanvleet. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2023 21:13:45 GMT -5
Gary Washburn listed PJ Washington as a possible add
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Post by soxfansince67 on Feb 6, 2023 21:16:06 GMT -5
it's astounding how Grant Williams can completely vanish from long stretches when it would be important for him to play well (when key players are injured, for example). His act has already gotten old for me. Don't pay him the big bucks.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2023 21:49:00 GMT -5
I think this part of Mazzulla is under-discussed…he’s really good at understanding young players. His youth probably allows for that to be easier than some of the retreads that have been coaching around the game awhile
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