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2022-2023 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 2, 2022 20:18:08 GMT -5
Maybe the Rangers blowing their wad on DeGrom makes Haniger to the Sox more likely?
Now I can see a bidding war between the Dodgers and Mets for Verlander. I have to think the Mets will top even the Dodgers?
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Post by manfred on Dec 2, 2022 20:21:02 GMT -5
We now enter my second favorite stage of the off-season: when other teams sign star players and we act like we never wanted ‘em anyway.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Dec 2, 2022 20:25:07 GMT -5
I figured a team would go to 40 per to limit a degrom deal to 3 years
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 2, 2022 20:27:37 GMT -5
We now enter my second favorite stage of the off-season: when other teams sign star players and we act like we never wanted ‘em anyway. You can't take risks on an injury-prone elite pitcher when you're a last place club. The risk of improving is too great.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Dec 2, 2022 20:27:47 GMT -5
This was a move I desperately wanted the Sox to make. I guess we're just hoping Sale can have 1 healthy year. This off-season thus far has been as exciting as their season. I’m glad the Sox didn’t make this signing. (1) It would have meant definitely not signing X and extending Devers and (2) good luck trying to get one full year out of DeGrom let alone 5. We really missed a bullet here if Chaim and Co were actually making a serious run for him (which they weren’t and wisely so).
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 2, 2022 20:28:14 GMT -5
We now enter my second favorite stage of the off-season: when other teams sign star players and we act like we never wanted ‘em anyway. You would want de grom for 5 years and 37 mil a year? Not gonna say I never wanted de grom but certainly no problem with not signing him for that price.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 2, 2022 20:29:29 GMT -5
5 years for degrom is asking for it Yup, but what other choice do the Rangers have at this point? They haven't been relevant in a decade.
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Post by manfred on Dec 2, 2022 20:32:03 GMT -5
We now enter my second favorite stage of the off-season: when other teams sign star players and we act like we never wanted ‘em anyway. You would want de grom for 5 years and 37 mil a year? Not gonna say I never wanted de grom but certainly no problem with not signing him for that price. No. I was kidding. Mostly. But while this might have been too rich for folks, everything probably will be.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 2, 2022 20:32:39 GMT -5
5 years for degrom is asking for it Yup, but what other choice do the Rangers have at this point? They haven't been relevant in a decade. And they probably won't be for a while yet tying up nearly 100 mil a year in 3 players for the next 5 seasons.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 2, 2022 20:37:56 GMT -5
Maybe the Rangers blowing their wad on DeGrom makes Haniger to the Sox more likely? Now I can see a bidding war between the Dodgers and Mets for Verlander. I have to think the Mets will top even the Dodgers? I hope to god that Martin and Haniger aren't the prizes of this offseason.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 2, 2022 20:38:57 GMT -5
Rangers lining themselves up to have a ton of dead money in DeGrom/Semien/Seager right when their young players ought to be peaking.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 2, 2022 20:43:46 GMT -5
Rangers lining themselves up to have a ton of dead money in DeGrom/Semien/Seager right when their young players ought to be peaking. They committed almost 700 million to those three. Its wild. The thing is...it could work out too. Bochy is a great manager.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 2, 2022 20:49:30 GMT -5
I would not be feeling good if the Red Sox were taking that risk. Alltime great pitchers can be done in a hurry, and he has shoulder problems two years in a row.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 2, 2022 20:52:09 GMT -5
This was a move I desperately wanted the Sox to make. I guess we're just hoping Sale can have 1 healthy year. This off-season thus far has been as exciting as their season. I’m glad the Sox didn’t make this signing. (1) It would have meant definitely not signing X and extending Devers and (2) good luck trying to get one full year out of DeGrom let alone 5. We really missed a bullet here if Chaim and Co were actually making a serious run for him (which they weren’t and wisely so). I disagree. They were barely over the luxury tax and teams like the Padres blew by them. They can afford all 3. For more perspective though. Dodgers - $265,396,675 Mets - $261,273,320 Yankees - $251,889,255 Phillies - $242,215,746 Padres - $220,849,135 Red Sox - $207,710,905 Let's just say the Red Sox can't spend with the Mets. They're 13.1 million behind San Diego and 34.5 behind the Phillies. Now money currently coming off the books: JD Martinez- $22,000,000 (salary cap number) Nathan Eovaldi - $17,000,000 Xander Bogaerts - $20,000,000 David Price l - $16,000,000 Devers current contract was 11.2, but estimated to 17 million. So, that's 75 million off the books with a growth of 6 so $69,000,000 in freed cash and if you just wanted to catch the Padres payroll, that's 82 million to play with. That alone comes out to 27.33 million per guy, which is pretty close and that's assuming they can't afford to reach Philly or beyond. I'm sure there's a plethora of other numbers to factor in like arb, guys they just signed, releasing JBJ. I think they can make it work or they can trade away a guy to make more room. They don't need Verdugo and his potential 7 million. Oh, there's also Christian Vazquez contract, so just to make it easy, I'll just leave his 13.35 million out just to account for much of the other roster. I just think it's silly that they couldn't make it work with all 3 guys. They could even backload a deal to push money off for when guys start to come off. Edit: I'm also double dipping here with Devers accounting for his current contract and taking it away from the money available.
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Post by orion09 on Dec 2, 2022 20:57:56 GMT -5
Shame, I like Winker and thought Bloom might pry him loose for a backend top 20 guy or something
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 2, 2022 21:16:30 GMT -5
Paxton at $4m looks better every day. *ducks for thrown objects from manfred*
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 2, 2022 21:25:25 GMT -5
Maybe the Rangers blowing their wad on DeGrom makes Haniger to the Sox more likely? Now I can see a bidding war between the Dodgers and Mets for Verlander. I have to think the Mets will top even the Dodgers? I hope to god that Martin and Haniger aren't the prizes of this offseason. You aren't really expecting Judge or Verlander or DeGrom, were you? I'd rather the Sox do that kind of thing when they have a good young cheap core in place that's capable of winning around 90 games without having all the breaks on the world go their way, and need a superstar to take them to the next level. Perhaps that core takes shape in 2025, hopefully? So the Sox go fishing in the next tier hopefully so they can be highly competitive in a playoff system where 85 - 90 wins gets you in and have that serve as a bridge to bigger and better things. Beats finishing last and being sub .500.
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Post by manfred on Dec 2, 2022 21:36:36 GMT -5
Paxton at $4m looks better every day. *ducks for thrown objects from manfred* Nah, I hear that. I hated it last year, and still do. But that’s done. $4 mill this year? Why not. So nothing thrown. My thing with him is I see him as strictly a bonus. So if someone puts him in the heart of the rotation, I think that’s crazy. If we say, wow, it’d be awesome to get some starts from him? I’m on board.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 2, 2022 21:48:09 GMT -5
Paxton at $4m looks better every day. *ducks for thrown objects from manfred* I'm inclined to agree, but one possibility is that he's completely toast and everybody who sees him throw will agree.
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Post by xdmo on Dec 2, 2022 21:58:45 GMT -5
Yup, but what other choice do the Rangers have at this point? They haven't been relevant in a decade. And they probably won't be for a while yet tying up nearly 100 mil a year in 3 players for the next 5 seasons. Yeah no disagreement's here. It's a stupid contract to get into postseason contention. Who knows if it works? It worked for the Phillies despite all odds, I guess.....
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Post by kwodes on Dec 3, 2022 7:36:01 GMT -5
I hope to god that Martin and Haniger aren't the prizes of this offseason. You aren't really expecting Judge or Verlander or DeGrom, were you? I'd rather the Sox do that kind of thing when they have a good young cheap core in place that's capable of winning around 90 games without having all the breaks on the world go their way, and need a superstar to take them to the next level. Perhaps that core takes shape in 2025, hopefully? So the Sox go fishing in the next tier hopefully so they can be highly competitive in a playoff system where 85 - 90 wins gets you in and have that serve as a bridge to bigger and better things. Beats finishing last and being sub .500. I agree 100%. Teams shouldn't be building their core through free agency (Rangers). You can afford to take risks and overpay in free agency when you have your core of cheap, homegrown guys already established (dodgers). I think we need to wait for our core guys to come up before we spend big. I already have my sights set on 2024 off-season when we'll have a lot of young guys up and Juan Soto as a free agent.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 3, 2022 10:27:25 GMT -5
You aren't really expecting Judge or Verlander or DeGrom, were you? I'd rather the Sox do that kind of thing when they have a good young cheap core in place that's capable of winning around 90 games without having all the breaks on the world go their way, and need a superstar to take them to the next level. Perhaps that core takes shape in 2025, hopefully? So the Sox go fishing in the next tier hopefully so they can be highly competitive in a playoff system where 85 - 90 wins gets you in and have that serve as a bridge to bigger and better things. Beats finishing last and being sub .500. I agree 100%. Teams shouldn't be building their core through free agency (Rangers). You can afford to take risks and overpay in free agency when you have your core of cheap, homegrown guys already established (dodgers). I think we need to wait for our core guys to come up before we spend big. I already have my sights set on 2024 off-season when we'll have a lot of young guys up and Juan Soto as a free agent. Casas will be playing his rookie season this year. You have Hosmer for next to nothing for the next 3 years. Xander, which everyone wants back, is 30. Whitlock is 27 and on a great contract for 4 years. Bello has already reached the majors and will likely get a rotation spot. Houck is a bullpen fixture. They have a solid core already. Outside of Mayer and maybe Yorke (who is blocked by Xander/Mayer and Story) there's not much else coming up that you can pencil in for the next 10 years.
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Post by kwodes on Dec 3, 2022 12:21:52 GMT -5
I agree 100%. Teams shouldn't be building their core through free agency (Rangers). You can afford to take risks and overpay in free agency when you have your core of cheap, homegrown guys already established (dodgers). I think we need to wait for our core guys to come up before we spend big. I already have my sights set on 2024 off-season when we'll have a lot of young guys up and Juan Soto as a free agent. Casas will be playing his rookie season this year. You have Hosmer for next to nothing for the next 3 years. Xander, which everyone wants back, is 30. Whitlock is 27 and on a great contract for 4 years. Bello has already reached the majors and will likely get a rotation spot. Houck is a bullpen fixture. They have a solid core already. Outside of Mayer and maybe Yorke (who is blocked by Xander/Mayer and Story) there's not much else coming up that you can pencil in for the next 10 years. Xander isn't on the roster anymore and those other guys combined last year for 3.7 WAR. I wouldn't really consider that a good "core" of cheap young guys. Will Smith had 3.9 WAR last year for the dodgers, by himself. I get your point that we have cheap, controlled guys currently on the roster, but I don't think we have enough quality guys established yet to be big time free agent players. I guess, from a macro perspective towards free agency, my point was that free agency should be used to supplement a roster of homegrown players (using the dodgers as a model) as opposed to building the roster through free agency (like the rangers seem to be doing). Then again, you could argue the Phillies were built through free agency so maybe I'm just totally off-base here?
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Post by manfred on Dec 3, 2022 12:39:43 GMT -5
Casas will be playing his rookie season this year. You have Hosmer for next to nothing for the next 3 years. Xander, which everyone wants back, is 30. Whitlock is 27 and on a great contract for 4 years. Bello has already reached the majors and will likely get a rotation spot. Houck is a bullpen fixture. They have a solid core already. Outside of Mayer and maybe Yorke (who is blocked by Xander/Mayer and Story) there's not much else coming up that you can pencil in for the next 10 years. Xander isn't on the roster anymore and those other guys combined last year for 3.7 WAR. I wouldn't really consider that a good "core" of cheap young guys. Will Smith had 3.9 WAR last year for the dodgers, by himself. I get your point that we have cheap, controlled guys currently on the roster, but I don't think we have enough quality guys established yet to be big time free agent players. I guess, from a macro perspective towards free agency, my point was that free agency should be used to supplement a roster of homegrown players (using the dodgers as a model) as opposed to building the roster through free agency (like the rangers seem to be doing). Then again, you could argue the Phillies were built through free agency so maybe I'm just totally off-base here? Who are you waiting for? By your logic, we don’t add until the homegrown guys are carrying the load… but this system is hardly stacked with that no doubt core. So this approach pretty much resigns us to 4-5 years of treading water. And… if there are cheap guys, what would you have them do with the money? Might as well spend up to the limit. Saved money dos no good.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Dec 3, 2022 12:40:35 GMT -5
Casas will be playing his rookie season this year. You have Hosmer for next to nothing for the next 3 years. Xander, which everyone wants back, is 30. Whitlock is 27 and on a great contract for 4 years. Bello has already reached the majors and will likely get a rotation spot. Houck is a bullpen fixture. They have a solid core already. Outside of Mayer and maybe Yorke (who is blocked by Xander/Mayer and Story) there's not much else coming up that you can pencil in for the next 10 years. Xander isn't on the roster anymore and those other guys combined last year for 3.7 WAR. I wouldn't really consider that a good "core" of cheap young guys. Will Smith had 3.9 WAR last year for the dodgers, by himself. I get your point that we have cheap, controlled guys currently on the roster, but I don't think we have enough quality guys established yet to be big time free agent players. I guess, from a macro perspective towards free agency, my point was that free agency should be used to supplement a roster of homegrown players (using the dodgers as a model) as opposed to building the roster through free agency (like the rangers seem to be doing). Then again, you could argue the Phillies were built through free agency so maybe I'm just totally off-base here? So, in this scenario we're letting Xander walk and planning to build up again in 2024? I don't think the Red Sox could stomach the business hit this would take after finishing in last place in 2022. My larger point is most of the guys we can bet on are already here and that at the moment, there's 1, maybe 2 guys we can bet on in the system and their positions would already be taken care of at the ML level for the next few years. As much as I believe in Mayer, we have to remember guys like Benintendi and Moncada were once the number 1 prospects in baseball. I think it'll be more of a blend than the Phillies, but this team would have been completely different with Schwarber, Benny and Renfroe last season.
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