SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2022-2023 National Rankings (offseason)
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 30, 2023 11:21:36 GMT -5
Nothing says sustainability like drafting Yorke ahead of Walker There were 19 other players drafted ahead of him as well, just FYI. edit: Here's my general philosophy on draft retrospectives - unless you can point to criticisms/arguments at the time that they should have taken player X over player Y (like Austin Meadows over Trey Ball), you can't complain about it years later. The MLB draft is so unpredictable that it's almost impossible to know what's actually a good pick or not at the time. I know a lot of people weren't stoked about the Yorke pick, but no one was clamoring for Jordan Walker, who MLB had ranked 33. It was all Pete Crow-Armstrong, Nick Bitsko, and maybe Garrett Mitchell (though that might have just been me). edit 2: The Rangers took Evan Carter 50th overall in that draft when he was on MLB's top 200 or, if I remember correctly, ranked much of anywhere. He's now #53 on Law's list. Just trying to further prove that we never really know how what seems to be an "off the board" pick at the time will end up.
|
|
|
Post by cotuitfan on Jan 30, 2023 11:31:47 GMT -5
He then gives 3rd pick a million over slot - so the bet here is the combined war of Yorke and Blaze will be higher than Walkers - because, as all along, quantity over quality - time will tell, but for me and many other fans, that clock has been ticking for far too long
|
|
|
Post by cotuitfan on Jan 30, 2023 11:33:19 GMT -5
And yes, drafting retrospectives are pretty lame - but Yorke was seen as such an incredible overreach I do think that pick is one to watch
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 30, 2023 11:41:23 GMT -5
And yes, drafting retrospectives are pretty lame - but Yorke was seen as such an incredible overreach I do think that pick is one to watch Of course it's "one to watch", all draft picks are fun to watch and track and it was a particularly interesting strategy at the time. But comparing him to one player you've cherry picked out of an entire draft is completely illogical and an obvious effort to fit a narrative. Teams are drafting off of their own boards, not anyone else's (again, Evan Carter) and make "reaches" all the time. That was far from the worst there's ever been, and it certainly won't be the last. If you disagree with taking Yorke as a general strategy, whatever that's all you, Yorke has been a very good prospect to date when healthy. But this 1-to-1 comparison is just bad.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Jan 30, 2023 11:44:04 GMT -5
Nothing says sustainability like drafting Yorke ahead of Walker Nothing says sustainability like having to take an underslot guy with your first ever pick because you walked into a situation where your manager got suspended and the league took away your 2nd round pick due to things that happened when you where employed by a different team. Nothing says sustainability like the 19 teams that passed on Mike Trout. And nothing says sustainability like 31 NFL teams passing on Tom Brady about 4-6 times each.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Jan 30, 2023 11:55:30 GMT -5
Every GM in every sport looks like a moron if you have convinced yourself that they should be judged against a standard of making what would be the single best pick years later.
All the Yorke pick haters changed their tune after seeing him for one season. The Red Sox deserve credit, but not an overwhelming amount of it, for making an outside the box pick that saved them some money and turned out to be reasonable. I'll say the same thing if years from now Yorke is a bust, but you also won't find me adding any more praise if he turns into a multi-time All Star. You should have reasonable expectations about how much anyone can predict exactly what happens 6 years later with these kids.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 30, 2023 12:19:49 GMT -5
Nothing says sustainability like drafting Yorke ahead of Walker This is really one of the most unreasonable comments I can recall. Not just the "they screwed up because a better prospect was taken later in the draft" fallacy, but Yorke isn't some washout - he's a good prospect! #5 in the system despite a down year. Like, what's your take on the teams that spent way more to draft Heston Kjerstad (#2), Asa Lacy (4), Emerson Hancock (6), Patrick Bailey (13), Justin Foscue (14), and Ed Howard (16) ahead of the Red Sox? Not only did those teams miss out on Walker - they also missed out on Yorke!
|
|
|
Post by bcsox on Jan 30, 2023 12:25:47 GMT -5
Legit question: at this point next year will Yorke be a consensus Top 100 MLB prospect?
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jan 30, 2023 12:29:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jan 30, 2023 12:40:40 GMT -5
They honest should have just gone to 20 for OF.
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Jan 30, 2023 12:43:50 GMT -5
Legit question: at this point next year will Yorke be a consensus Top 100 MLB prospect? I think so. I don't think someone with that kind of hit tool loses it in one year unless there's an injury. I still believe in him.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 30, 2023 13:27:44 GMT -5
They honest should have just gone to 20 for OF. They can do what they want. That won't change the fact he was considered the top defensive outfielder in the minor leagues. Lists are just that lists, there's no mathematical analysis behind any of this. And yes, the justification sounds like squaring the circle when they could just have expanded the number of outfielders.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Jan 30, 2023 13:30:44 GMT -5
Just went through Law's list. Sometimes his reasoning strikes me as insane, but he's a good writer and I appreciate that he's willing to stand on an island by himself at times. I am a Keith Law enjoyer.
I learned that Henry Davis tallied 27 HBPs in 76 games including the AFL. Must be tough combining that with playing catcher.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Jan 30, 2023 13:53:27 GMT -5
Just went through Law's list. Sometimes his reasoning strikes me as insane, but he's a good writer and I appreciate that he's willing to stand on an island by himself at times. I am a Keith Law enjoyer. I learned that Henry Davis tallied 27 HBPs in 76 games including the AFL. Must be tough combining that with playing catcher. Does he actually stand on the plate? That is crazy. Guy must have a Don Baylor poster just to laugh at.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jan 30, 2023 14:00:32 GMT -5
Just went through Law's list. Sometimes his reasoning strikes me as insane, but he's a good writer and I appreciate that he's willing to stand on an island by himself at times. I am a Keith Law enjoyer. I learned that Henry Davis tallied 27 HBPs in 76 games including the AFL. Must be tough combining that with playing catcher. Good news for Davis (and bad for Pitt), he probably won't have to worry about being a catcher for much longer
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Jan 30, 2023 14:05:10 GMT -5
Just went through Law's list. Sometimes his reasoning strikes me as insane, but he's a good writer and I appreciate that he's willing to stand on an island by himself at times. I am a Keith Law enjoyer. I learned that Henry Davis tallied 27 HBPs in 76 games including the AFL. Must be tough combining that with playing catcher. Good news for Davis (and bad for Pitt), he probably won't have to worry about being a catcher for much longer Is he bad defensively? I haven’t followed him.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jan 30, 2023 14:11:21 GMT -5
Good news for Davis (and bad for Pitt), he probably won't have to worry about being a catcher for much longer Is he bad defensively? I haven’t followed him. He's got a great arm, but that's pretty much where his positive defensive traits end. He's been passed by Endy Rodriguez in his own organization
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,824
|
Post by nomar on Jan 30, 2023 14:12:43 GMT -5
Not to say we would have taken him at 41, but I wanted Dalton Rushing so bad and he went the pick before Coffey. Absolutely raked in A ball and is pretty high up there on Law’s list now too.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 30, 2023 14:16:52 GMT -5
Not to say we would have take him at 41, but I wanted Dalton Rushing so bad and he went the pick before Coffey. Absolutely raked in A ball and is pretty high up there on Law’s list now too. Saw him live and that is a DUDE. I think he was a case of some teams overthinking it in the vein of "will his bat play at another position?", because while he is probably not a catcher, I think the bat was still a borderline first round bat regardless of position.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jan 30, 2023 15:53:15 GMT -5
Law's list has the Rays with a weaker presence than the Red Sox on the top 100, first time I've seen that in a while (4 guys ranked, but at a lower position on average than the Red Sox - 24, 52, 81, 99). The Yankees also have 4 guys; theirs are similarly ranked to the Red Sox' (8, 32, 76, 86). Baltimore has 6, including 3 in the top 20 (2, 15, 19, 73, 84, 95). Yikes. Toronto has only one, at #47; they're also going above the CBT this year, I think, which means they're going to start to feel the pinch as their young players get into their arb years. They're playing for a few years' window and then they'll probably start to slide again. He also said in the chat he still sees Boston's farm as below average (so below top 15?). Said after Bello there's really no starting pitching, which in general, I would agree with if "no" equals the usual 6s/5s and maybe a 4. I think last year he had the Sox at 20 for the system.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jan 30, 2023 16:00:22 GMT -5
Nothing says sustainability like drafting Yorke ahead of Walker Nothing says sustainability like having to take an underslot guy with your first ever pick because you walked into a situation where your manager got suspended and the league took away your 2nd round pick due to things that happened when you where employed by a different team. I'm on the record as saying the Sox blew it with Pete Crow Armstrong sitting there, and I will stick by that. He's a plus defender and profiles to be a .350+ OBP guy with 10-15 HRs (just like Yorke - only with very good defense in a high value position, CF). He looks like he could make MLB by 2024. That said, Yorke had a bucket of buzzard luck last year. Here's hoping he can rebound. His only tool is his hit tool, and I am wondering if the new anti-shift rules will hurt him making it to MLB without a plus-hit performance. His defense is supposed to be meh at best and he doesn't have the kind of power that gets you to MLB. It's all about OBP and singles/doubles for him. Nothing wrong with that (it may be grossly undervalued in MLB right now), but he needs to deliver or he risks becoming a player to be named later or an org guy.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 30, 2023 17:01:16 GMT -5
Law's list has the Rays with a weaker presence than the Red Sox on the top 100, first time I've seen that in a while (4 guys ranked, but at a lower position on average than the Red Sox - 24, 52, 81, 99). The Yankees also have 4 guys; theirs are similarly ranked to the Red Sox' (8, 32, 76, 86). Baltimore has 6, including 3 in the top 20 (2, 15, 19, 73, 84, 95). Yikes. Toronto has only one, at #47; they're also going above the CBT this year, I think, which means they're going to start to feel the pinch as their young players get into their arb years. They're playing for a few years' window and then they'll probably start to slide again. He also said in the chat he still sees Boston's farm as below average (so below top 15?). Said after Bello there's really no starting pitching, which in general, I would agree with if "no" equals the usual 6s/5s and maybe a 4. I think last year he had the Sox at 20 for the system. Hard to see how they can be below average when they have above-average representation in the top 100 and are also noted for having significant depth. I guess if they're really weak in like the 5-15 range of the system it's mathematically possible but that's cutting it rather fine...
|
|
|
Post by seamus on Jan 30, 2023 17:40:43 GMT -5
He also said in the chat he still sees Boston's farm as below average (so below top 15?). Said after Bello there's really no starting pitching, which in general, I would agree with if "no" equals the usual 6s/5s and maybe a 4. I think last year he had the Sox at 20 for the system. Hard to see how they can be below average when they have above-average representation in the top 100 and are also noted for having significant depth. I guess if they're really weak in like the 5-15 range of the system it's mathematically possible but that's cutting it rather fine... I think you'd have to make the qualitative judgment that the lack of top-tier starting pitching prospects outweighs the raw "points" they get for all their infielders, or that the 5-15 range is exceptionally weak. I dunno, I obviously am way more familiar with the Sox than any other system, but it's hard to imagine there are really 15+ teams that have a 5-15 so good as to outweigh what seems like very strong low minors depth and one of the better top 5's in the game.
|
|
|
Post by kingstephanos on Jan 30, 2023 21:23:25 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy on Jan 30, 2023 21:40:03 GMT -5
Keith Law with Rafaela over Casas is certainly interesting… Lawler over Mayer too (I think?)
|
|
|