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Evaluating the Front Office and Ownership
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 23, 2022 8:52:59 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. Most of these are spot on. However, I do like Yoshida. They need offense and he's probably a better bet than the last big ticket international FA they spent on. If not then they probably offload him on the 40 man and send him to Worcester for a few seasons...joking but yeah its been mostly a trainwreck. You do also need to give the man credit for Kiké, Wacha, Refsnyder, Whitlock and Arroyo though.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 23, 2022 8:58:07 GMT -5
Context for their reticence to sign the biggest FAs on the market: man do a lot of these turn out bad. Here are the top 7 free agents pre-2020:
Cole - 9/324 Rendon - 7/245 Strasburg - 7/245 Wheeler - 5/118 Donaldson - 4/92 Bumgarner - 5/85 Ryu - 4/80
Wheeler's been great. Cole has been adequate for his contract so far but there's a loooong way to go. The other five have been somewhere on the bad to cataclysmic spectrum.
This was just three years ago! And look at those contract lengths, and consider what guys have been getting this year...
One point on Wheeler. The Phillies were blasted for signing him to that deal. The Rendon deal looks to be a trainwreck more than any other.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Dec 23, 2022 9:27:11 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. My problem with posts like this is you sprinkle in some good points with....not so good. Yes, a lot of his trades haven't looked great, but you sprinkle the bad in with what amounts to losing pocket lint. "oh no they lost Hosmer" really? Did you expect them to protect Noah Song? Jeter Downs has been on a downward trajectory for years did we really have hopes and aspirations for him? Are we really complaining about losing Jay Groome? and how can we possibly bash the Yoshida contract? you or I have no ideal how good he actually will be. Lets do a thought expirement. Lets say the Sox offseason went a different direction but all the above was still true. Lets say Bogaerts resigned here, signed a good starting pitcher and perhaps picked up a bench CF/RF/IF bat. Would we really be complaining about the small stuff? I get the offseason is cold, long and boring at times but this just reaks of old man yells at cloud to me.
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Post by mwgray13 on Dec 23, 2022 11:27:14 GMT -5
I believe the Sox knew what they had in Downs by about half way through the 2020 seasons minor league camp. If they didn't they should have realized it by the end of 2021. IMO Downs should have been offloaded at that point, if not sooner. He still had some value at that point. As for Yoshida, I look at Seiya Suzuki as a Japanese hitting comparable, and Hosmer as a established MLB comparable. Their Japanese batting stats are similar especially when you consider Yoshida had enter Japanese pro ball at an older age, has few seasons in pro ball, has more peak years accounted in those stats, and that he is still a year older then Suzuki. Suzuki in his first year with the Cubs was a 115 OPS+. Hosmer for his career and last year was a 108 OPS+. Additionally Yoshida is not projected to be a positive or avg defender at LF, or a threat on the base paths. That said, with Hosmer as the baseline, and Suzuki as the high end outcome, I'd say spending $17M for that upgrade is a poor allocation of pre luxury tax dollars. Two problems: Yoshida played in a tougher league than Suzuki, so his stats are more impressive, at least on offense. Last year Hosmer had a great first month and then hit like Jonathan Arauz the rest of the way. The Pacific league is tougher for pitchers not hitters since they utilize the DH. The utilization of the DH in half of whole professional league is a competitive disadvantage for teams not hitters. If anything, a smart pitcher would give in less to a NL like team's best hitter since there is a lesser threat down the order, and Suzuki in theory would have had fewer PA & RBI opportunities with a pitcher hitting in the 9 hole. Suzuki also had to play the field which most assume does take some away from your batting line. Yoshida has benefited from the DH by not having to play the field for 2/3 of the year, and by also having better complimentary hitters around him. DHing is not going to be as readily available next year. I am more impressed by Suzuki's batting line then Yoshida's. As for Hosmer, he not a world better, but an average or slightly above avg LHH at league minimum should have a place on a roster. There are plenty of players that provide most of their value in a month or two period throughout the season. Hosmer afforded you depth bat in the event of Devers, Yoshida, or Verdugo got injured. Still you should have got a return for Hosmer.
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Post by mwgray13 on Dec 23, 2022 11:48:22 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. My problem with posts like this is you sprinkle in some good points with....not so good. Yes, a lot of his trades haven't looked great, but you sprinkle the bad in with what amounts to losing pocket lint. "oh no they lost Hosmer" really? Did you expect them to protect Noah Song? Jeter Downs has been on a downward trajectory for years did we really have hopes and aspirations for him? Are we really complaining about losing Jay Groome? and how can we possibly bash the Yoshida contract? you or I have no ideal how good he actually will be. Lets do a thought expirement. Lets say the Sox offseason went a different direction but all the above was still true. Lets say Bogaerts resigned here, signed a good starting pitcher and perhaps picked up a bench CF/RF/IF bat. Would we really be complaining about the small stuff? I get the offseason is cold, long and boring at times but this just reaks of old man yells at cloud to me. Hosmer transaction is definitely the least meaningful of the ones listed but its important to note. Groome could have been traded elsewhere for a different piece or as part of a larger package. Lets ask ourself what would have a package of Groome, Ward, Politi, and Downs got you? If you don't think those prospects add up to get something, start thinking about the 40 man roster crunch still to come if the Sox keep adding MLBers. The Sox have plenty of players that likely will have a limited role (platoon/bench or RP) at MLB level or won't play for them like Duran, Murphy, Ort, D. Hernandez, Mata, Seabold... Too many assets have left for little or nothing. Package them, trade them, and then sign FAs to open roster spots.
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Post by mwgray13 on Dec 23, 2022 12:12:49 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. Most of these are spot on. However, I do like Yoshida. They need offense and he's probably a better bet than the last big ticket international FA they spent on. If not then they probably offload him on the 40 man and send him to Worcester for a few seasons...joking but yeah its been mostly a trainwreck. You do also need to give the man credit for Kiké, Wacha, Refsnyder, Whitlock and Arroyo though. I agreed Kiké, Whitlock, Wacha, Refsynder, Arroyo, and don't forget Hill have been awesome transactions. Matter a fact, I like the Kiké, and Whitlock extensions as well. I don't like letting Wacha, and Hill walk. Wacha and Hill probably project as #3 starters next year, low 4 era with 120 innings each. Those two guys probably will combine to make $20M next year, which brings me to Kenley Jansen, and Joely Rodriguez who make a combined $18M next year. I'd rather have Wacha, Hill in the rotation with Whitlock as a reliver, then Whitlock in the rotation with Jensen and Rodriguez in the bullpen. Lets be clear, I'd rather have Hill for $6M then Rodriguez for $2M, I'd rather have Wacha for $16M then Jensen for $16M, and I am not concerned if Whitlock spends another year getting stretched out further to say 120 innings before transitioning to a full time 150 inning starter in 2024. As for Arroyo, and Refsynder, they both have been useful while here. Arroyo could be a impact regular by being a slightly above average hitter and an above fielder at 2B but needs to play more then part time without getting injured. TBH, I think the Sox open the season with Arroyo at 2B, and Story at SS, I believe Bloom is prioritizing defense. Refsynder had a wonderful season last year, defensively he is average RF/back up CF, but he is a career 88 wRC not 146, babip bordering .400, he is due for some regression... maybe he is a 1 WAR bench player for all of next year... maybe.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 23, 2022 12:32:26 GMT -5
Lets ask ourself what would have a package of Groome, Ward, Politi, and Downs got you? Nothing? Good luck finding a team that wants to spend four 40 man spots on that motley crew and also thinks they're bidding against someone.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 23, 2022 12:43:14 GMT -5
Tomase article at 98.5, lists 3 things we should be looking forward with the Red Sox, 1. The bullpen is upgraded. 2. He thinks there taking signing Devers seriously. 3. The farm system is legit. With prospects knocking at the door. Or already ready.
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Post by mwgray13 on Dec 23, 2022 13:32:37 GMT -5
Lets ask ourself what would have a package of Groome, Ward, Politi, and Downs got you? Nothing? Good luck finding a team that wants to spend four 40 man spots on that motley crew and also thinks they're bidding against someone.
IDK, Bloom took Verudgo, Downs, and Wong as a return for Betts?! So I'd say anything is possible. Plenty of teams would have taken a shot on a couple of those guys or traded for one of them and you'd get a prospect that didn't require a 40 man roster spot for a couple of years. Groome, Ward, and Downs have consistently ranked between 10-25 in the prospect rankings the past year plus. Groome, Ward, and Politi could all be RP next year, and Downs being a longer term upside play. You could always throw Verdugo or another MLBer in to get a higher quality asset in return. This roster crunch is not something the front office should have woken up to in November and been surprised. This roster crunch started towards the end of 2021. So trading multiple players for fewer should have occurred before seasons end. The other options would be staying away from or getting rid of the 4.50+ ERA 4+ BB/9 types in our bulllpen.
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Post by manfred on Dec 23, 2022 13:37:14 GMT -5
Tomase article at 98.5, lists 3 things we should be looking forward with the Red Sox, 1. The bullpen is upgraded. 2. He thinks there taking signing Devers seriously. 3. The farm system is legit. With prospects knocking at the door. Or already ready. That is kind of grasping at straws, no? A reason for optimism is they might really, really try to sign Devers? Uhhh… ok. “Chin up guys! We might not lose one more of our all stars! Things are looking better already!”
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Post by enfuego on Dec 23, 2022 13:52:56 GMT -5
Majority of MLB teams have similar 40 man issues. Red Sox are not unique in this situation. Every team had a shot at Hosmer and NOT one bit.
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Post by rico6 on Dec 23, 2022 14:01:29 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. I know Bloom pulls the trigger on the trades but who or what department is telling him that: -Hamilton and Binelas are worthy of taking back in a JBJ for Renfroe deal (I mean some folks are arguing that Hamilton is not worthy of protecting from a Rule 5 draft) -Wong and Downs as the additions to Verdugo for Betts (although Price's contract has to been weighed in this return) -The players in return for Benitendi -Same as with the players in return for Vaz as well as the players included for taking on Hosmer I mean someone or internal team needs to share in the selection of the players coming back in return for sending out Renfroe, Benintendi, Betts etc... There have been some waiver wire wins but do the Sox need to review their scouting or internal team providing Bloom player information?
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Dec 23, 2022 14:03:25 GMT -5
Lets ask ourself what would have a package of Groome, Ward, Politi, and Downs got you? Nothing? Good luck finding a team that wants to spend four 40 man spots on that motley crew and also thinks they're bidding against someone.
Clearly, Washington would have given something up for Ward and Downs in a deal. Not much. But something.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 23, 2022 14:07:07 GMT -5
There are fair / interesting criticisms raised but when they’re equally mixed with things like “Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer” before his first MLB game it gets really hard to read and or engage with this thread and the legitimate debates.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,845
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Post by shagworthy on Dec 23, 2022 14:07:40 GMT -5
Bloom's management of player assets at this point has been a complete disaster. - Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer - Letting Hosmer walk for nothing at league minimum salary - Jeter Downs leaving via waivers - Losing Ward, Song and Politi to the rule 5 draft (could be returned but still) - His trades have been bad/awful for the most part: - JBJ, Hamilton, Binelas for Renfroe - Winckowski, Cordero, Grambrell & 2 milbers for Benintendi - Verdugo, Wong & Downs for Betts - Hosmer, Rosier, & Ferguesen for Groome (w/o Hosmer what did you get? a AA .200 avg UT , and a A+ back up outfielder) Too many assets are leaving for free or little in return. I know Bloom pulls the trigger on the trades but who or what department is telling him that: -Hamilton and Binelas are worthy of taking back in a JBJ for Renfroe deal (I mean some folks are arguing that Hamilton is not worthy of protecting from a Rule 5 draft) -Wong and Downs as the additions to Verdugo for Betts (although Price's contract has to been weighed in this return) -The players in return for Benitendi -Same as with the players in return for Vaz as well as the players included for taking on Hosmer I mean someone or internal team needs to share in the selection of the players coming back in return for sending out Renfroe, Benintendi, Betts etc... There have been some waiver wire wins but do the Sox need to review their scouting or internal team providing Bloom player information? I have been wondering this for a while. I am in the camp of the Sox Baseball Ops and scouting group are grossly overdue for a shakeup.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 23, 2022 14:12:10 GMT -5
Tomase article at 98.5, lists 3 things we should be looking forward with the Red Sox, 1. The bullpen is upgraded. 2. He thinks there taking signing Devers seriously. 3. The farm system is legit. With prospects knocking at the door. Or already ready. That is kind of grasping at straws, no? A reason for optimism is they might really, really try to sign Devers? Uhhh… ok. “Chin up guys! We might not lose one more of our all stars! Things are looking better already!” Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger.
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Post by manfred on Dec 23, 2022 14:17:18 GMT -5
That is kind of grasping at straws, no? A reason for optimism is they might really, really try to sign Devers? Uhhh… ok. “Chin up guys! We might not lose one more of our all stars! Things are looking better already!” Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger. The system is TBD. A lot rides on teenagers. Mayer, Bleis, Romero, Anthony, and not-quite Yorke. Could be great. But they are teenagers. It is especially interesting that Yorke and Romero were drafted well ahead of projections. To me, that is going to be a greaterpart of Bloom’s legacy than we can assess right now.
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Post by julyanmorley on Dec 23, 2022 14:22:23 GMT -5
Plenty of teams would have taken a shot on a couple of those guys or traded for one of them and you'd get a prospect that didn't require a 40 man roster spot for a couple of years. Groome, Ward, and Downs have consistently ranked between 10-25 in the prospect rankings the past year plus. The other team also has to bare the cost of having these players eat a 40 man spot, which is why they had somewhere between negative and very little value. Prospect rankings do not account for the cost of a player taking up roster space.
The Red Sox lived the dream with Groome and flipped him for....one guy who is pretty much a nonprospect already, and Max Ferguson who ranks 60th in the system and slugged .339 with strikeouts as a 22 year old in A-Ball last year. That's a good move but also doesn't really matter. Downs frankly was not among the best middle infielders put on waivers this month.
With Ward, they had the choice between three bad options
1) Put him on the 40 all offseason and transform him into an asset with somewhere between negative and very little value 2) Trade him for Max Ferguson
3) Cross your fingers and hope you retain him without using a 40 man spot
Most people here would have chosen 1), but 3) is defensible. Notably, 3) could be the right decision even if you think the most likely outcome is that you lose Ward.
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Post by incandenza on Dec 23, 2022 14:58:07 GMT -5
That is kind of grasping at straws, no? A reason for optimism is they might really, really try to sign Devers? Uhhh… ok. “Chin up guys! We might not lose one more of our all stars! Things are looking better already!” Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger. With all due respect, every time one of these national media pieces gets linked here (especially from the Athletic), it brings down the level of discussion a little bit, because these national media pieces seem to be at about the level of a 30th percentile post on this forum. I think your own arguments are better than this fluff (and I disagree with a lot of them!).
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Post by Guidas on Dec 23, 2022 15:06:26 GMT -5
Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger. With all due respect, every time one of these national media pieces gets linked here (especially from the Athletic), it brings down the level of discussion a little bit, because these national media pieces seem to be at about the level of a 30th percentile post on this forum. I think your own arguments are better than this fluff (and I disagree with a lot of them!). I get that (and thanks), but I think it's relevant only because Ghiroli is a beat reporter and she and Saris actively talk with players. Then again, I'm sure they talk to agents and I don't know how much this is fed from them, too. Anyway, as with all sports, winning is the best deodorant/attraction.
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Post by rico6 on Dec 23, 2022 16:01:00 GMT -5
That is kind of grasping at straws, no? A reason for optimism is they might really, really try to sign Devers? Uhhh… ok. “Chin up guys! We might not lose one more of our all stars! Things are looking better already!” Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger. On the MLB Network, Mike Lowell basically said the same thing. It actually worried him that the Sox not going after top players or not extending their own would lead to players not considering Boston.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 23, 2022 16:08:45 GMT -5
Listening to the Athletic's 3-0 podcast yesterday with Darren Van Riper, Eno Saris and Britt Ghiroli. At one point they discussed the Red Sox and both Saris and Ghiroli said that, going forward the Red Sox will now have to set the market for any high end free agents unless they somehow win the World Series. Said their recent actions have shown players they don't seem to want to win, and that most higher end free agents tend to go where the money is and where they believe in the ownership group (except Kris Bryant, who has a ring and apparently just wanted to go somewhere with good hunting and fishing). Further posited that by letting Betts, Bogaerts and perhaps Devers go, they are sending a signal that they don't care about their own stars. Finally, Saris said why would Devers sign with Boston now when the only hope for him would be for them to develop some star players, (paraphrasing) "Something that seems unlikely given their farm system. They may have one or maybe two guys in there who could become all stars, but that's nothing to bank on from a system that's ranked 20th to 11th by various organizations." Don't hit me. I'm only the messenger. On the MLB Network, Mike Lowell basically said the same thing. It actually worried him that the Sox not going after top players or not extending their own would lead to players not considering Boston. In the quest for ultimate dollar efficiency the human factor doesn't get factored in. Players may or may not study analytics but there is a grapevine there and they talk and they get a sense of who will pay and who will nickel and dime you and they see the loyalty shown toward their own players and these things matter to them. I think Lowell and some of the others have a valid point, something that a fan of the team might not have the distance to see.
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Post by pappyman99 on Dec 23, 2022 16:14:44 GMT -5
There are fair / interesting criticisms raised but when they’re equally mixed with things like “Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer” before his first MLB game it gets really hard to read and or engage with this thread and the legitimate debates. I think it’s equally outrageous that people think Yoshida will Just carry his Japanese league numbers right over to the MLB. When that in fact would be a huge perfect world about 2% chance of happening scenario
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Post by incandenza on Dec 23, 2022 16:18:24 GMT -5
On the MLB Network, Mike Lowell basically said the same thing. It actually worried him that the Sox not going after top players or not extending their own would lead to players not considering Boston. In the quest for ultimate dollar efficiency the human factor doesn't get factored in. Players may or may not study analytics but there is a grapevine there and they talk and they get a sense of who will pay and who will nickel and dime you and they see the loyalty shown toward their own players and these things matter to them. I think Lowell and some of the others have a valid point, something that a fan of the team might not have the distance to see. This whole line of criticism makes no sense. If a player is reticent to sign with Boston because they're too cheap (despite being one of the top-spending teams every single year?) then all Boston has to do is offer them a bunch of money and the concern is resolved. If on the other hand Boston is unwilling to offer that money, then the issue has nothing to do with players' perceptions anyway.
In any case, I am willing to spend an extra $50 million of John Henry's money on Devers just to put an end to this weird narrative-spinning.
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Post by scottysmalls on Dec 23, 2022 16:20:11 GMT -5
There are fair / interesting criticisms raised but when they’re equally mixed with things like “Paying Yoshida $18M to be a comparable hitter to Hosmer” before his first MLB game it gets really hard to read and or engage with this thread and the legitimate debates. I think it’s equally outrageous that people think Yoshida will Just carry his Japanese league numbers right over to the MLB. When that in fact would be a huge perfect world about 2% chance of happening scenario Absolutely it would be. Thing is, literally zero people have made that claim. Not one. Certainly not on here, likely not in the world.
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