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Evaluating the Front Office and Ownership
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 12, 2023 11:36:57 GMT -5
Some fish it would make sense to see in any net cast for Red Sox GM/President of Baseball Operations, in my opinion:
David Stearns Brian Sabean Mike Hazen James Click John Coppolella
I'm assuming the Red Sox would want someone with experience and a track record of winning; someone that would energize the fan base. The optics would be important, I think.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 12, 2023 11:39:06 GMT -5
Hell let's have another go at Billy Beane, people still love Moneyball right? /s
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Post by briam on Sept 12, 2023 11:46:33 GMT -5
Welp, Stearns is out.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 12, 2023 11:50:49 GMT -5
As I was saying, Stearns wasn't a great fit anyways. Wasn't even on my list.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 12, 2023 11:53:14 GMT -5
that's been an open secret for like 2 months
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Post by briam on Sept 12, 2023 12:00:49 GMT -5
that's been an open secret for like 2 months For sure, I saw Boston’s name tossed around a little bit but hard to imagine them outbidding Cohen once he wants a guy.
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Post by Edward Hand on Sept 12, 2023 14:24:48 GMT -5
This is my question. I see Mr. Bloom as not bad/not great but a simply average POBBO. The league is filled with those. If you're walking away from a CEO because you want demonstrably better results, it has to be someone who has shown an ability to deliver that. Stearns seems like a different shade of the same - a guy who produced success on a lower budget club, with a big emphasis on developing pitching and defense. Isn't that exactly what Henry and Werner hired in 2019? I generally agree with the premise here (even if I'm a little more bullish on Bloom's performance than you). This is what I mean by saying firing Bloom would be a mainly PR move. What is the point of shaking up the front office again for another mystery guy? If there's a superstar candidate out there okay maybe. Otherwise I think the continuity is more valuable. Thank you for articulating my sentiments on this so well.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 12, 2023 14:49:37 GMT -5
I think the imperative for Bloom was: field a team that doesn't suck while digging out of the giant chasm the farm system was in when he arrived. And, throwing out 2020, the team is on track to have won about 85 games per year since 2021.
So: what would they be firing him for? Being only okay while in the absolute nadir of a cycle of having young cost-controlled talent? If Henry were George Steinbrenner or something he'd just have a dumb half-thought like "proof is in the pudding team needs to din don't care how" and bring in the next guy. But we know from the fact that they fired Dombrowski that they understood the problem the team was in: bloated payroll, dead farm, bad long-term outlook. So I don't see why they wouldn't treat 85 wins per year as a reasonable performance under the circumstances.
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Post by manfred on Sept 12, 2023 15:06:33 GMT -5
I think the imperative for Bloom was: field a team that doesn't suck while digging out of the giant chasm the farm system was in when he arrived. And, throwing out 2020, the team is on track to have won about 85 games per year since 2021. So: what would they be firing him for? Being only okay while in the absolute nadir of a cycle of having young cost-controlled talent? If Henry were George Steinbrenner or something he'd just have a dumb half-thought like "proof is in the pudding team needs to din don't care how" and bring in the next guy. But we know from the fact that they fired Dombrowski that they understood the problem the team was in: bloated payroll, dead farm, bad long-term outlook. So I don't see why they wouldn't treat 85 wins per year as a reasonable performance under the circumstances. I don’t think they’ll fire him. But… if I take your question, I think you could fire him for a few overlapping reasons: A) they have not been competitive for the most part, which is not great for your brand. B) in light of that, one might expect a higher level of talent on the horizon. Being not very good is less worth it if it isn’t doing more for the future. As it, the best pitcher and player under-25 in the system pre-date him. In other words, as much as DD did to strip the system, he managed to win the East multiple times and a WS AND add a few elite talents to the current roster. Bloom’s tenure has featured worse finishes — but hasn’t necessarily added the talent level you’d expect from their draft positions or trade options. Again, I don’t see it happening. But the case *could* be made that he is doing what he was hired to do but not as well as expected.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2023 15:07:16 GMT -5
I think the imperative for Bloom was: field a team that doesn't suck while digging out of the giant chasm the farm system was in when he arrived. And, throwing out 2020, the team is on track to have won about 85 games per year since 2021. So: what would they be firing him for? Being only okay while in the absolute nadir of a cycle of having young cost-controlled talent? If Henry were George Steinbrenner or something he'd just have a dumb half-thought like "proof is in the pudding team needs to din don't care how" and bring in the next guy. But we know from the fact that they fired Dombrowski that they understood the problem the team was in: bloated payroll, dead farm, bad long-term outlook. So I don't see why they wouldn't treat 85 wins per year as a reasonable performance under the circumstances. Agree in part, and like scottysmalls, I'm squarely on the side of "If you can't hire a significant upgrade over what we have now then keep the continuity." At least for the last year of his deal, and evaluate/decide on an extension or separation after that. But to your specific statement of "I don't see why they wouldn't treat 85 wins per year as a reasonable performance under the circumstances" are the past actions of this ownership group. They have shown themselves to be...quixotic/reactive/impulsive since 2011. If this team finished last in the AL East again, they can chuck averages and go with the very public "last place finishes" narrative, even if it's simply divisional last places. After all, this is an ownership group that publicly stated Mr. Bloom was brought in to get us off that roller coaster. But even if they twitch and decide to part ways, they'd still have to complete any firing by bringing in a near slam-dunk replacement. I don't know who's currently in that very top tier of great POBBOs/GMs who is who isn't under contract elsewhere.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Sept 12, 2023 15:25:20 GMT -5
Firing Bloom would be pretty pointless, but I won't feel too bad for him if he goes. You just don't get to have job security in Boston when you finish out of the playoffs three times in four years, no matter the circumstances.
But if they do fire him, I hope they go with someone who has the exact same M.O. Don't bring in a Dombrowski type now when we're so close to pairing a strong farm with a competitive Major League roster.
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 12, 2023 15:53:21 GMT -5
Firing Bloom would be pretty pointless, but I won't feel too bad for him if he goes. You just don't get to have job security in Boston when you finish out of the playoffs three times in four years, no matter the circumstances. But if they do fire him, I hope they go with someone who has the exact same M.O. Don't bring in a Dombrowski type now when we're so close to pairing a strong farm with a competitive Major League roster. This is pretty much where I’m at, it doesn’t really make sense to fire him to hire a guy with the exact same philosophy, and it would be incredibly stupid to bring in another old school DD type, so I’d be a little annoyed if does get fired. But the record is the record and Boston is Boston, so he’d hardly be the first guy I disagreed with running out of town.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Sept 12, 2023 15:57:16 GMT -5
I generally agree with the premise here (even if I'm a little more bullish on Bloom's performance than you). This is what I mean by saying firing Bloom would be a mainly PR move. What is the point of shaking up the front office again for another mystery guy? If there's a superstar candidate out there okay maybe. Otherwise I think the continuity is more valuable. Thank you for articulating my sentiments on this so well. The fact that we are discussing a possible fifth GM — three of whom have won championships and two of whom have done so for more than one team — in less than 15 years is kind of a clue that changing GM’s isn’t the answer, isn’t it?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 12, 2023 16:17:39 GMT -5
I think the imperative for Bloom was: field a team that doesn't suck while digging out of the giant chasm the farm system was in when he arrived. And, throwing out 2020, the team is on track to have won about 85 games per year since 2021. So: what would they be firing him for? Being only okay while in the absolute nadir of a cycle of having young cost-controlled talent? If Henry were George Steinbrenner or something he'd just have a dumb half-thought like "proof is in the pudding team needs to din don't care how" and bring in the next guy. But we know from the fact that they fired Dombrowski that they understood the problem the team was in: bloated payroll, dead farm, bad long-term outlook. So I don't see why they wouldn't treat 85 wins per year as a reasonable performance under the circumstances. I don’t think they’ll fire him. But… if I take your question, I think you could fire him for a few overlapping reasons: A) they have not been competitive for the most part, which is not great for your brand. B) in light of that, one might expect a higher level of talent on the horizon. Being not very good is less worth it if it isn’t doing more for the future. As it, the best pitcher and player under-25 in the system pre-date him. In other words, as much as DD did to strip the system, he managed to win the East multiple times and a WS AND add a few elite talents to the current roster. Bloom’s tenure has featured worse finishes — but hasn’t necessarily added the talent level you’d expect from their draft positions or trade options. Again, I don’t see it happening. But the case *could* be made that he is doing what he was hired to do but not as well as expected. They have, by most accounts, a top-10 farm system despite only picking high in the draft order once. What exactly is your expectation here? That the 2020 draft class should already be putting up 3 WAR seasons in the big leagues?
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Post by manfred on Sept 12, 2023 16:20:12 GMT -5
I don’t think they’ll fire him. But… if I take your question, I think you could fire him for a few overlapping reasons: A) they have not been competitive for the most part, which is not great for your brand. B) in light of that, one might expect a higher level of talent on the horizon. Being not very good is less worth it if it isn’t doing more for the future. As it, the best pitcher and player under-25 in the system pre-date him. In other words, as much as DD did to strip the system, he managed to win the East multiple times and a WS AND add a few elite talents to the current roster. Bloom’s tenure has featured worse finishes — but hasn’t necessarily added the talent level you’d expect from their draft positions or trade options. Again, I don’t see it happening. But the case *could* be made that he is doing what he was hired to do but not as well as expected. They have, by most accounts, a top-10 farm system despite only picking high in the draft order once. What exactly is your expectation here? That the 2020 draft class should already be putting up 3 WAR seasons in the big leagues? I’m saying what would be the rationale. I do think the talent management has been debatable, though, for reasons that have been rehashed to death.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2023 17:02:18 GMT -5
Firing Bloom would be pretty pointless, but I won't feel too bad for him if he goes. You just don't get to have job security in Boston when you finish out of the playoffs three times in four years, no matter the circumstances. But if they do fire him, I hope they go with someone who has the exact same M.O. Don't bring in a Dombrowski type now when we're so close to pairing a strong farm with a competitive Major League roster. I don't know if there are a lot of "Dombrowski-type" guys left in MLB. He does carry that "Trader Dave" reputation, but he also has the later career reputation of getting teams to the playoffs. He's basically a "we've got a two to four-year window so let's completely go for it!" POBBO. That's not this ownership group anymore. Or so they say.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 12, 2023 22:13:54 GMT -5
I can't believe super-competitive titan of business JWH told Bloom his job is to make sure the ML team doesn't suck for the first few years he's here. No sports team that isn't in full tank mode makes not sucking its goal. No successful business in any industry sets mediocrity as its goal.
If that's the bar Henry set, he deserves to have his ballpark taken over by O's and Dodgers fans in the closing weeks of this season.
I was happy with the Bloom hiring when it happened and even happier after 2021. It's impossible to defend the on-field product and decision making the last two years. Yes, he took over a team with a bloated payroll (Sale, Price, Pedroia) but that was supposed to stop mattering last off-season. He had a ton of money to spend on FAs, but the team is headed for a final record only slightly better, if any better at all, than last season.
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Post by keninten on Sept 12, 2023 23:00:21 GMT -5
I can't believe super-competitive titan of business JWH told Bloom his job is to make sure the ML team doesn't suck for the first few years he's here. No sports team that isn't in full tank mode makes not sucking its goal. No successful business in any industry sets mediocrity as its goal. If that's the bar Henry set, he deserves to have his ballpark taken over by O's and Dodgers fans in the closing weeks of this season. I was happy with the Bloom hiring when it happened and even happier after 2021. It's impossible to defend the on-field product and decision making the last two years. Yes, he took over a team with a bloated payroll (Sale, Price, Pedroia) but that was supposed to stop mattering last off-season. He had a ton of money to spend on FAs, but the team is headed for a final record only slightly better, if any better at all, than last season. Looking back using hindsight who would have been the good FA signings last year? Turner and Bellinger were probably the 2 best players. Eovaldi and maybe Lorenzen on the mound. We got Turner and were the high bid on Eovaldi and Eflin. Last year has to be one of the worst FA offseasons.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 12, 2023 23:07:34 GMT -5
I can't believe super-competitive titan of business JWH told Bloom his job is to make sure the ML team doesn't suck for the first few years he's here. No sports team that isn't in full tank mode makes not sucking its goal. No successful business in any industry sets mediocrity as its goal. If that's the bar Henry set, he deserves to have his ballpark taken over by O's and Dodgers fans in the closing weeks of this season. I was happy with the Bloom hiring when it happened and even happier after 2021. It's impossible to defend the on-field product and decision making the last two years. Yes, he took over a team with a bloated payroll (Sale, Price, Pedroia) but that was supposed to stop mattering last off-season. He had a ton of money to spend on FAs, but the team is headed for a final record only slightly better, if any better at all, than last season. Looking back using hindsight who would have been the good FA signings last year? Turner and Bellinger were probably the 2 best players. Eovaldi and maybe Lorenzen on the mound. We got Turner and were the high bid on Eovaldi and Eflin. Last year has to be one of the worst FA offseasons. And the SP market did not really turn out well. Either injury, under performance, or a mixture of both. (Rondon, Verlander, deGrom, verlander, Abreu etc
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 12, 2023 23:08:24 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see how good Jarred Carrabis' sources are, if they're accurate about Bloom not being around come November.
I'm on the fence about this. My inclination is to give Bloom one more year to see if he can turn the team into a playoff team and continue to improve the system in 2024.
That said, if they let Bloom go in favor of a better PoBO, then I'm quite fine with it.
Overall I'm not very impressed with Bloom's track record and I feel that ownership overreacted to the 2019 hangover where Sale gave out and the other starters showed the aftereffects of Cora riding them hard in the postseason, and they decided that they didnt want to be among the highest paying teams in baseball anymore even though it worked swimmingly in 2018.
Dombrowski gave Sale his extension when he shouldn't have which hurt but Bloom came in and inherited a core still in its prime, the same core minus Betts that was mostly responsible for their 2021 success.
Bloom certainly improved the farm although he did inherit some good talent in Bello, Casas, and Houck.
I would expect better drafting opportunities if you're picking mid pack rather than the back 5 of the first round and for the most part, that has happened and they did turn the 2020 debacle into Marcelo Mayer.
So the system did improve under his watch although its debatable if the future pitching is going to be much better than the present pitching
But the team on the field was at or toward the bottom of the division in 3 of 4 years. The realistic goal of the team was to win 85 and take a 3td wild card spot, basically the hunt for mediocrity.
I think Bloom is a middling GM and his won loss record reflects this sentiment. I dont have a lot of faith that he can fix the holes. He has left way too many gaping holes whether it's the RT hole he opened up on the Renfroe deal to letting the defense fester all season, or not adequately replacing Eovaldi and Wacha.
I think he hangs on too long to the Matthew Lugo level prospects, etc. I'm not sure that he can fix the core and/or have the farm provide enough help for a few more years. They cant wait until 2026 to seriously compete. They should be able to do a better job of winning games before the Mayers, Anthonys, Yorkes, and Teels are ready.
I've liked a number of his moved but the record is the record, which is the bottom line.
I wonder if both Cora and Bloom go.
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Post by stevedillard on Sept 13, 2023 6:48:42 GMT -5
It'll be interesting to see how good Jarred Carrabis' sources are, if they're accurate about Bloom not being around come November. Not to speak for him, but from hearing him describe it on the radio, I doubt he would call them sources in the know. Just folks around the park, who may have a vibe but no inside info. But if enough people are picking up on a vibe, its something to watch. Just going chalk in the draft would have yielded Mayer, and Teel, and we can debate about whether our system would be better going chalk rather than the PCA/Yorke-Jordan trade. He's really failed to supplement the draft, he could have done a lot better had he maximized his approach. At each trade deadline he's had assets that would have no value at season's end (JDM, Evoldi, Paxton, Duvall), and would have given some more tickets (we can debate how much, but even tickets are worthwhile, see Wilyer Abreau). And better draft position (2 2nd rounders rather than 2 4th rounders). And that's before burning $600,000 in international money this year. And his one approach of bringing prospects in through creative trades (JBJ for Binelas) I liked, but didn't work out and seemed to be the last attempt to do this. He's basically played it safe rather than making any fundamental moves. And many of us saw that safe at the ML level was going to be just close enough to pretend to be a contender, but not really be close, and safe on the MiLB level was just waiting for development of kids in A ball, so just far enough away to really be a 5 year window, not the 2023 is our year, no 2024 is our year, no, 2025 is our year. I was going to write that I can agree with the plan but have issues with his execution (see above about wasted opportunities), but I'm not sure whether these were execution issues or that that middle-ground/safe is the plan. In that case, I'm not sure I even agree with the plan.
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Post by jdb on Sept 13, 2023 7:17:07 GMT -5
Who would be a few obvious upgrades from Bloom? I think I’d prefer to give him another 1-2 years and continue his plan. He’s done well setting the foundation (farm + young core guys) and I think this sets up to be the first offseason he can sign and trade for some higher profile guys with us being so far under the tax to start the winter. Glad it’s not my call.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 13, 2023 7:58:48 GMT -5
If Bloom had not traded Vazquez at the 2022 trade deadline but had gotten McGuire for Diekman, Enmanuel Valdez for JD Martinez, and Wilyer Abreu for Eovaldi, would people think he did well?
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Post by chaimtime on Sept 13, 2023 8:12:21 GMT -5
If Bloom had not traded Vazquez at the 2022 trade deadline but had gotten McGuire for Diekman, Enmanuel Valdez for JD Martinez, and Wilyer Abreu for Eovaldi, would people think he did well? They’d be mad he gave up on the season rather than give our veterans a shot to turn it around while they were still in it, and they’d complain that he only got 1-ish WAR type prospects in return
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 13, 2023 8:14:28 GMT -5
If Bloom had not traded Vazquez at the 2022 trade deadline but had gotten McGuire for Diekman, Enmanuel Valdez for JD Martinez, and Wilyer Abreu for Eovaldi, would people think he did well? Ha it's an interesting question, I for one think Bloom overall did very well grabbing McGuire, Abreu and Valdez for what in essence were spare parts. Theoretically though, at the very least it would have nullified the why didn't he duck under the LT last year crowd. Not saying that people who ask that are wrong, they have a point and heck some times I am a part of that crowd myself.
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