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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2023 8:42:03 GMT -5
You knew they'd take a guy not on anyone radar. This isn’t horrible because it's more most people had him labeled as a safety, not ILB. Not what I would have done and it cost you a chance at multiple guys I liked. Yet he's a guy who should add speed and coverage ability at LB. So I certainly can't complain. Talk about building up your D, it's like he's sick and tired of RJP calling them frauds lol. Yet it's time to address the offense! Me too… me too. If Gonzalez can be a number 1 corner, perhaps I can. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2023 13:15:27 GMT -5
Bill being Bill today in full force.
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Post by costpet on Apr 29, 2023 13:19:24 GMT -5
You spell Tackle with a T not a G.
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Post by costpet on Apr 29, 2023 13:19:47 GMT -5
You spell Tackle with a T not a G.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2023 14:02:45 GMT -5
I'd feel a lot better if I thought Sow and Mafi were so they could move Onwenu back to Tackle. Unfortunately, I don't actually think that.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 29, 2023 14:51:40 GMT -5
This has been a rough day at the office for the Patriots.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 29, 2023 15:08:45 GMT -5
Bill getting himself some Boutte!
(I had to be the first to say that)
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Post by kingofthetrill on Apr 29, 2023 15:10:43 GMT -5
When Duncan got taken the pick before I was yelling that it was time to take Boutte. Honestly if you flip some of these picks around in terms of the order they were taken, it makes more sense.
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,048
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Post by mobaz on Apr 29, 2023 15:12:23 GMT -5
As UMass said the draft went very Bill today. I would have loved a TE or WR earlier but Boutte was #1/2 receiver in this class a year and a half ago. In the 6th it's rare to get ceiling like that. The proceeding year and a half was AWFUL with injury, attitude and performance issues; did 2 and 3 happen because of 1? So he either works or doesn't but worth a swing here.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 29, 2023 15:15:49 GMT -5
I’m shocked that the Patriot’s had a draftable grade on Boutte. I really didn’t see an NFL player on tape and felt like the hype got exposed. But it would be awesome if he turns out ok.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2023 15:20:53 GMT -5
I'd feel a lot better if I thought Sow and Mafi were so they could move Onwenu back to Tackle. Unfortunately, I don't actually think that. They will keep him at guard until they extend him then move him to tackle. Chess my friend |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2023 15:27:09 GMT -5
FWIW, Boston Sports Journal identified all of the non-kicker picks for the Pats as targets. No small feet since, after the first rounders at each position, they pick 1 or 2 for each round (tbc, they do a piece on each position - not sure if they did on the Ps and PKs).
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Post by rasimon on Apr 29, 2023 15:54:49 GMT -5
I’m shocked that the Patriot’s had a draftable grade on Boutte. I really didn’t see an NFL player on tape and felt like the hype got exposed. But it would be awesome if he turns out ok. At the start of the year, many people were talking about Boutte as WR1 and a top 10 pick. I watched a few of his games from 2021 and I didn't see that. He dropped a lot of balls and separation was just ok. He was very good after the catch. But JSN was way more impressive. I had Boutte as a late round 2 pick. Then he had the awful 2022 season. He had 2 surgeries on his ankle. He had issues with the coaching and off-field issues. He seemed to have lost his dynamism on the field, and he had a poor combine. Its reasonable to assume the performance issues were at least partially the result of the surgeries. As for the coaching issues, I assume OBrien and Troy Brown and Mac were all consulted before they made thus pick. If he can get back to his 2021 self, then we get a decent-good starter at a position of need. Or maybe he gets cut in preseason. But it seems like a good risk to take at 187. |
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Post by orion09 on Apr 29, 2023 17:59:04 GMT -5
My guess at #14 before the draft is Lukas Van Ness. Way late round pick that I’ve heard mentioned and hope becomes true is Isaiah Bolden CB from Jackson State. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 29, 2023 18:30:16 GMT -5
Pats signed MALIK CUNNINGHAM QB Louisville as an UDFA, big time athlete - I bet they look at converting him to a WR.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 29, 2023 19:20:11 GMT -5
Considering team needs, perceived quality of player drafted, and opportunity cost of the draft slot.
Best pick:
#17 Christian Gonzalez. First pick will likely either be best or worst due to the high opportunity cost of a first-round draft slot. But not always. The team needed an outside CB. Gonzalez was ranked as #1 or #2 CB on almost every board. The opportunity cost is high, but the only other pick of comparable need and quality would have been staying at 14 and taking Broderick Jones.
Runner up: #187 Kayshon Boutte
Worst pick:
#107 Jake Andrews. A backup C / G and heir apparent to David Andrews is a nice to have, but they had more pressing needs. Mock draft database, consensus board had him at #270. But the real kicker is the opportunity cost. There were still a lot of good prospects on the board at 107 including Luke Wypler. Andrews and Wypler are both 6'3. Wypler is 2 lbs lighter. Wypler is 1.5 years younger. They ran almost the exact same 40 time and 10 yard split, but in their other combine numbers Wypler was (substantially) better. In terms of PFF grades: Wypler had a 81 run-blocking grade, whereas Andrews had 77. So pretty close. However, Wypler had an 84 pass-blocking grade whereas Andrews had 59 (yuk). That is basically unplayable. On top of this, Wypler put up his numbers in the Big 10 whereas Andrews did it in the Sunbelt Conference. I just don't get this pick.
Runner up: Marte Mapu
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 29, 2023 20:12:37 GMT -5
Overall I think this might be one of the better draft classes in a long-time. I think it shows the Patriots evolving because in years past no way they make this many picks. They literally wouldn't have that many players on their board.
The 4th round was typical Bill, right up to trading up for a kicker. Then shockingly trading down to get another pick. Yeah you can criticize the Jake Andrews pick, centers are a different breed and Bill has a great track record. Not just physical ability, it's about Smarts, communication and bonding with the QB. If he busts, yeah you missed out on a bunch of talent. At least with Ryland it was he was the last good kicker.
I really like both guards, starting level upside. Yeah no OT, yet it was a bad class. I have no problem taking the safer, bigger upside guys. Cole Strange has officially been put on notice.
Yeah I'm surprised Boutte was on their board. Yeah I'm likely taking Perry or Hutchinson. Yet I'm okay with this gamble. Brian Kelly was likely very good for him in getting him ready for the Patriots. His best games were all against SEC teams. Tape is different since he got injured, yet end of last year he lights up Georgia. Boom or bust, yet theirs some George Pickens crap to him. Him playing special teams likely helped his cause.
Best punter in draft, with biggest leg.
Demario Douglas again not who I'd draft. Yet good athlete and they clearly wanted some YAC ability versus better route running. They took two WR, type of thing they needed to do if you aren't taking higher ones. So I'm happy.
Speed is a crazy athlete for his size, yet raw. Major special teams guy. I'd rather my special teams guys on cheap rookie deals and Slater is getting old.
Bolden is your raw yet big upside type guy.
They've already signed a running QB and blocking TE. Yeah I'm disappointed we didn't get a TE, yet you never get everything in one draft and they went quickly. You just added a bunch of guys that can really help next year and in the future. Good mix of production and picking guys with good upsides. They clearly made an effort to draft athletes, which is nice. You just really helped your D, added needed depth on offense and took a few risks. Redid your kicking game and added even more special team guys. Which after last year, was needed and even as I type these words I'm shocked I'm saying this. Yet special teams cost you games last year. I'm way too excited for a new punter.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 29, 2023 20:16:05 GMT -5
Last post on this year's draft:
I did a shadow-mock draft in real-time along with the actual draft. I actually did 2. One assuming they traded down and took Christian Gonzalez and one assuming they stayed at 14 and took Broderick Jones.
DRAFT 1:
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trade 14 -> 17 + 120
17 Christian Gonzalez (CB)
trade 46+107+6th next year -> 34
34 Matthew Bergeron (OT/G) We need OT. I liked Dawand Jones, but rumor is he refused to weigh in at Pro-Day and looked very large.
76 Darnell Washington (TE). Yes I know he may have a knee issue, but he is too good to pass up. We are ok at TE for this year anyways.
trade 120 + 184 -> 103
103 Kelee Ringo (CB/S). Plan to play him at FS unless coaches think he can play outside CB. They will figure it out.
117 Andrew Voorhees (G) - Yes I know he has a torn ACL.
trade 135-> 144+245
144 Antonio Johnson (S/CB) he was disappointing this year, but this is too far to fall given his talent. We can use him at slot corner / strong safety considering we did not draft Marte Mapu.
trade 192 + 210 -> 173
173 Luke Wypler (C) instead of Jake Andrews.
187 Kayshon Boutte (WR)
214 Cory Trice (CB)
245 Hunter Leupke (FB)
DRAFT 2:
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14 Broderick Jones (OT)
46 Kelee Ringo (CB/S)
76 Darnell Washington (TE).
120 + 184 -> 103
103 Dewand Jones (OT) I know its a risk but it could pay off big. The other option would be Aditomewa Adewabore (DE).
117 Andrew Voorhees (G).
trade 135-> 144+245
144 Antonio Johnson (S/CB).
trade 192 + 210 -> 173
173 Luke Wypler (C)
187 Kayshon Boutte (WR)
214 Cory Trice (CB)
245 Hunter Leupke (FB).
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Post by philarhody on Apr 29, 2023 20:44:57 GMT -5
This freaking guy has some infectious energy. Was a blocking tight end, but ran a 4.64 forty at 265.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 29, 2023 21:19:46 GMT -5
Pats signed MALIK CUNNINGHAM QB Louisville as an UDFA, big time athlete - I bet they look at converting him to a WR. He got some legit guaranteed money |
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 30, 2023 6:48:43 GMT -5
Is Cole Strange on notice with these picks or is it a combination of the fact that the interior of the line is Uber important with a pocket passing QB and important for the run game we rely on? Backups last year were a disaster and Andrews has had a lot of injury issues. Onwenu is a UFA after this year and do they want to pay him what top guards are getting now? I think it’s fair to say Strange not being great plays a roll but I think it’s an area of need that was greatly overlooked headed into the offseason because we’ve been focused on the short term and starters next year. My guess is those guys just had too high of grades for them to pass on and it can often take bodies to sort thru them all.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 30, 2023 7:36:30 GMT -5
Is Cole Strange on notice with these picks or is it a combination of the fact that the interior of the line is Uber important with a pocket passing QB and important for the run game we rely on? Backups last year were a disaster and Andrews has had a lot of injury issues. Onwenu is a UFA after this year and do they want to pay him what top guards are getting now? I think it’s fair to say Strange not being great plays a roll but I think it’s an area of need that was greatly overlooked headed into the offseason because we’ve been focused on the short term and starters next year. My guess is those guys just had too high of grades for them to pass on and it can often take bodies to sort thru them all. I’d don’t think Strange is “on notice.” He was a 298 lb guard coming out of UT Chattanooga. Offensive line is one of the hardest positions to have success at from day one. He needs to get fatter and stronger but I think he’ll be fine. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892 
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Post by cdj on Apr 30, 2023 7:51:50 GMT -5
At the very worst Malik Cunningham is a perfect scout team QB for this team that gets shredded by mobile QB’s
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 30, 2023 12:18:18 GMT -5
Yeah he's on notice. Not that I think these are replacements, yet it's competition from legit high end OG. For sure Onwenu and Andrews played a role, as did value, yet they took Mafi higher than most had him after already taking an OG. That after taking an OC, who had played both OG spots. Cole Strange had good games and he had horrible games, getting pulled multiple times. You could look at the teams and know when he'd struggle, anytime he faced an elite DT. He just never played against huge guys that were crazy athletic and strong. All the talk was about OT, yet last year at times he was one of the biggest problem on the OL.
I guess this answer the questions about our OG and OC rookies from last year and don't forget about our RT from Michigan. It might mean nothing, yet I always thought he had the best chance of becoming a legit player.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 30, 2023 15:01:10 GMT -5
I asked Microsoft's Bing Chatbot "How good was the Patriots 2023 draft?" Below is its answer. The numbers you see interspersed in the text are footnote links.
"The Patriots had a busy and productive draft in 2023, making 12 picks in total. They traded down from No. 14 to No. 17 and still landed one of the best cornerbacks in the class in Christian Gonzalez from Oregon12. He was ranked as the No. 1 corner and the No. 7 overall prospect by CBS Sports1. He should be an immediate starter for the Patriots, who needed to upgrade their secondary.
In the second round, they added another defensive playmaker in edge rusher Keion White from Georgia Tech1. He had 10 sacks and 18 tackles for loss in his final college season and has the athleticism and versatility to fit in Bill Belichick’s scheme. In the third round, they took safety Marte Mapu from Sacramento State1, a small-school prospect with great range and ball skills.
On Day 3, the Patriots focused on adding depth and competition to their offensive line, kicker position, and receiver group. They drafted center Jake Andrews from Troy1, guard Sidy Sow from Eastern Michigan1, and interior lineman Atonio Mafi from UCLA1 to bolster their line. They also drafted kicker Chad Ryland from Maryland1 to challenge Nick Folk for the job. At receiver, they took a flyer on Kayshon Boutte from LSU1, who was once a highly touted recruit but struggled with injuries and inconsistency in college. They also added Demario Douglas from Liberty1, a speedy slot receiver who could contribute on special teams.
The Patriots also drafted three more cornerbacks: Ameer Speed from Michigan State1, Isaiah Bolden from Jackson State1, and Bryce Baringer from Michigan State1. Speed and Bolden are both tall and physical corners who could compete for a role on the outside or in the slot. Baringer is also a punter who averaged 44.6 yards per punt in college2.
Overall, the Patriots draft was well-received by most analysts, who praised their value picks and defensive upgrades. CBS Sports gave them an A- grade for their draft1, while ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr gave them a B+ grade3. NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein gave them an A grade and called them one of the winners of the draft4.
I hope that helps!"
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