wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 1, 2023 10:32:46 GMT -5
Yeah in the NBA, nbadraft.net makes it sound like he could potentially. ESPN says he only could in fast break and his handle isn't good in half court. It's confusing. Ringer says he's not yet a guy who will be running the show in NBA, which makes it sound like he could in time. If you can't score or shoot, being a point forward who can create for others gives him a role. Why I like Colby Jones. Watched some tape, he's like Jones great vision, yet his dribble is high. He basically looks like the guard version of Robert Williams. His offense and shot is awkward, elite level athlete. If he's running the show, it's years down the line given the tape I just watched. Yet you see why the Celtics are interested. Jones is like Tatum, very skilled, smooth, makes things look easy. Jackson is like a less skilled Brown on offense, yet with the vision Brown lacks and he actually uses his athletic ability on D. He’s more of a secondary playmaker than a primary playmaker (think Derrick White more than Marcus). Andre’s preference is to set up teammates rather than shoot, which could mean setting screens, passing to open shooters, crashing the boards and kicking it back out, etc. I think he can run the offense in spurts, but you don’t want him running the show the entire time he’s out there. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 12:35:42 GMT -5
I keep hearing Brian Barrett and Bill Simmons talk about trading Jaylen for Scoot Henderson.
My question is: why the hell would another team do that? If we know the Celtics were worse with Jaylen on the floor this past season, than the rest of the league does too.
I’m fine trading Jaylen for some quality pieces. If you trade Jaylen for a Thompson twin with a couple really good veterans, you’re probably just as good next year with a higher ceiling and a lot more cap flexibility in the future.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 1, 2023 12:53:58 GMT -5
I keep hearing Brian Barrett and Bill Simmons talk about trading Jaylen for Scoot Henderson. My question is: why the hell would another team do that? If we know the Celtics were worse with Jaylen on the floor this past season, than the rest of the league does too. I’m fine trading Jaylen for some quality pieces. If you trade Jaylen for a Thompson twin with a couple really good veterans, you’re probably just as good next year with a higher ceiling and a lot more cap flexibility in the future. The thinking is that if Portland is keeping Dame, then they need to add talent around his ASAP. Jaylen makes them a playoff contender instantly and fits better with Dame positionally, whereas Tatum is young enough that the Celtics could reload around him with Scoot (plus, the positional fit is better in theory). I’m not sure I’d do that trade assuming the teams are even interested, but the new CBA makes it a legitimate conversation worth having. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 1, 2023 13:33:29 GMT -5
I think Jaylen is starting to become underrated by Celtics fans lol
He’s all-nba and entering his prime, teams would trade the 3rd pick for that every time
I mean I get being pissed at him- to me his play is a big reason they lost to the Heat. But I’m also not going to let a bad series erase what he’s done, especially when we know he was battling injury. He was the one coming up big in the finals last year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 1, 2023 14:27:37 GMT -5
How do you rate players? Raw stats, things like all NBA teams or advanced stats?
If you believe in advanced stats Brown just had his worst year among the last four and his worst playoffs since his rookie year! He's not an all NBA type player, actually not even close. Now you can blame the coach and expect Brown to bounce back to his level the two years before this. That seems fair, that's still not an all NBA player though. He has stretches were he's looked that way, yet never a full season or playoff run. Advanced stats wise he's closer to guys like Maxey than truly elite players.
He certainly deserves a full max level deal, given he still has upside. He doesn't deserve a super max deal, that's Tatum and he has the numbers to back that up.
No team has ever had two supermax guys and we shouldn't be the first given the new rules. We can still offer him more than any other team and only Celtics can give him the super max.
I don't think I'm under rating him, I think the all NBA team has overrated him and created this huge problem given new CBA rules.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 1, 2023 14:45:45 GMT -5
How do you rate players? Raw stats, things like all NBA teams or advanced stats? If you believe in advanced stats Brown just had his worst year among the last four and his worst playoffs since his rookie year! He's not an all NBA type player, actually not even close. Now you can blame the coach and expect Brown to bounce back to his level the two years before this. That seems fair, that's still not an all NBA player though. He has stretches were he's looked that way, yet never a full season or playoff run. Advanced stats wise he's closer to guys like Maxey than truly elite players. He certainly deserves a full max level deal, given he still has upside. He doesn't deserve a super max deal, that's Tatum and he has the numbers to back that up. No team has ever had two supermax guys and we shouldn't be the first given the new rules. We can still offer him more than any other team and only Celtics can give him the super max. I don't think I'm under rating him, I think the all NBA team has overrated him and created this huge problem given new CBA rules. Agreed - Jaylen is a very good, top-20ish player in the NBA, but things broke very right for him to make All-NBA this year. That doesn’t discredit the season he had or the player he is. But it means he’s eligible to be paid as a top 10 player, which he isn’t. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 1, 2023 15:06:38 GMT -5
Oh i certainly don’t think he’s a top 10 guy either, I’m just seeing Celtics fans talk about him like he’s a liability out there
He was during that last series for sure but that is not the norm for Jaylen. A team would move a high lottery pick for him. Especially if they’re trying to win ASAP
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 1, 2023 15:30:42 GMT -5
Oh i certainly don’t think he’s a top 10 guy either, I’m just seeing Celtics fans talk about him like he’s a liability out there He was during that last series for sure but that is not the norm for Jaylen. A team would move a high lottery pick for him. Especially if they’re trying to win ASAP Well, it’s no longer just the Miami series - this came a year after an extremely shaky playoffs where his turnovers were a massive issue. His ball handling and playmaking skills have never gotten better, to the point where they’re probably net negatives, and he’s never turned into the plus defender that many of us were expecting him to be. That doesn’t make him a liability by any means, but there’s a chance his contract turns into one. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 17:04:45 GMT -5
I think Jaylen is starting to become underrated by Celtics fans lol He’s all-nba and entering his prime, teams would trade the 3rd pick for that every time I mean I get being pissed at him- to me his play is a big reason they lost to the Heat. But I’m also not going to let a bad series erase what he’s done, especially when we know he was battling injury. He was the one coming up big in the finals last year. He’s a good player. He’s also going to be making 1/3 of the salary cap. Give me a break. He was just outplayed my Caleb Martin. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 1, 2023 18:24:48 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 1, 2023 18:58:09 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals. Came to say this. The only player for either team who was better than Caleb Martin in the ECF was Jimmy, and he really didn’t even do much games 3-6 |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 1, 2023 19:05:54 GMT -5
Yeah Martin ended up being the best player on the court if you take the entire series as a whole into account, by the end I was way more scared of him than Butler
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 19:27:51 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals. Right, so would you pay Caleb Martin $50 million a year? |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 19:35:28 GMT -5
Yeah Martin ended up being the best player on the court if you take the entire series as a whole into account, by the end I was way more scared of him than Butler Yeah man. And when Jaylen’s hands grow, and he stops falling asleep on back screens in year 8, and he learns to pass out of a live dribble, he might be the best player in a conference finals too. Until then, don’t pay him the max. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 19:36:31 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals. Came to say this. The only player for either team who was better than Caleb Martin in the ECF was Jimmy, and he really didn’t even do much games 3-6 Astute observation. So why can’t your max player be that guy after 5 conference finals appearances? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 1, 2023 19:42:57 GMT -5
Yeah Martin ended up being the best player on the court if you take the entire series as a whole into account, by the end I was way more scared of him than Butler Yeah man. And when Jaylen’s hands grow, and he stops falling asleep on back screens in year 8, and he learns to pass out of a live dribble, he might be the best player in a conference finals too. Until then, don’t pay him the max. He’s getting the max whether you like it or not. Super max is up for debate. You’re conveniently ignoring he was their best player against Golden State because he dribbled off his feet a few times. Kinda silly to act like he hasn’t been a good playoff performer in the past. He’s averaged 20+ points, 5+ reb in 9 straight series leading up to this past bad one. Last year against the same Heat team in the ECF he went 24-7-3 on .488/.404 shooting Sometimes you get hurt and play poorly for a bit. You don’t need to overreact to that. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jun 1, 2023 19:58:03 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals. I'd pay that one we just saw whatever he wanted. |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 1, 2023 20:33:01 GMT -5
Caleb Martin has been money all playoffs and just had one of the most efficient 7 game series you'll ever see. It wasn't all easy crap either, going at and threw Robert Williams multiple times. He's the 2nd best player on a team in the finals. Right, so would you pay Caleb Martin $50 million a year? No, I would take a lot more than one playoff series into consideration. The thought that Caleb Martin is now somehow better than Jaylen Brown because he outplayed him in a playoff series is absurd. I get it; Jaylen is one of the most talented, but frustrating players I’ve ever seen. Sometimes it looks like he has no clue what he’s doing. But no, he is not worse than Caleb Martin, and he is worth the max in my opinion. Probably not super max though |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 1, 2023 20:39:01 GMT -5
Lol Caleb Martin zero points on 0-5 shooting so far. Clearly the guy just hates the Celtics
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 1, 2023 20:59:11 GMT -5
Lol Caleb Martin zero points on 0-5 shooting so far. Clearly the guy just hates the Celtics Him and Strus 0-15 Naturally their role players will play like they’re 11th men off the bench now |
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 1, 2023 21:02:29 GMT -5
Lol Caleb Martin zero points on 0-5 shooting so far. Clearly the guy just hates the Celtics Him and Strus 0-15 Naturally their role players will play like they’re 11th men off the bench now Jimmy with zero FT attempts. I know the Celtics would’ve struggled against the Nuggets, but definitely frustrating to see the Heat playing more like how they SHOULD have played last series |
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 1, 2023 21:54:26 GMT -5
Denver had a lot of time off. This was Miami only chance and it wasn’t close. The Joker is unstoppable. I didn’t even know his brother was on the Heat. Lol.
I know Tatum had a tough break at the beginning but they won when he wasn’t good lots of nights. White was a beast and Timelord too. Because J Brown was so bad Smart got overlooked but I noticed he did nothing also.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 1, 2023 22:04:59 GMT -5
I did not like the way Denver played defense in that one. The Heat just sucked.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 1, 2023 22:10:47 GMT -5
They haven’t played now there in the swing of it.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 1, 2023 22:12:38 GMT -5
I did not like the way Denver played defense in that one. The Heat just sucked. The Heat always suck. They beat us. But they suck Pat Riley sucks, Alonzo Mouring sucks . I like the coach. Another thing the announcers sucked too Reggie wasn’t too bad. They made a big deal that the Heat booked a flight to Denver. Who cares it was game 7. You would book a flight that’s just smart business. |
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