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Celtics 2023 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 6, 2023 12:16:43 GMT -5
Well if you want Brown gone offer him a deal like that. As a free agent Brown could sign for 4 years 173 million, by next year that's going to be about 4 years 190 million. How many teams would offer him that next year? You can easily make the case Brown doesn't deserve a super max deal, you can't make a case he doesn't deserve a full max level deal. A full max level extension this year for Brown with 8% raises over 5 years is 233 million, super max is like 5 years 293 million.
I'm offering Brown 5 years 233 million. If he won't except that, then we have a problem and we'd have to think about trading him. I see that as positive value, as I can see him making that looking good in time and that he would have good trade value if down the road you want to move him.
What we need is offensive and defensive coaches that knows how to build systems to maximize our players and talent. Last two years the teams that beat us did just that, they could play multiple ways and adjust easily to anything thrown at them. If I have to watch another playoff series of Tatum and Brown playing iso ball from 3 point line against zone D, I might be done with this team! Same with D, switch everything is fine as a base D, yet where's the zone D, ability to double and full court pressure?
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Post by philarhody on Jun 6, 2023 14:03:52 GMT -5
Well if you want Brown gone offer him a deal like that. As a free agent Brown could sign for 4 years 173 million, by next year that's going to be about 4 years 190 million. How many teams would offer him that next year? You can easily make the case Brown doesn't deserve a super max deal, you can't make a case he doesn't deserve a full max level deal. A full max level extension this year for Brown with 8% raises over 5 years is 233 million, super max is like 5 years 293 million. I'm offering Brown 5 years 233 million. If he won't except that, then we have a problem and we'd have to think about trading him. I see that as positive value, as I can see him making that looking good in time and that he would have good trade value if down the road you want to move him. What we need is offensive and defensive coaches that knows how to build systems to maximize our players and talent. Last two years the teams that beat us did just that, they could play multiple ways and adjust easily to anything thrown at them. If I have to watch another playoff series of Tatum and Brown playing iso ball from 3 point line against zone D, I might be done with this team! Same with D, switch everything is fine as a base D, yet where's the zone D, ability to double and full court pressure? I was screaming for a system to turn Tatum and Brown into play finishers instead of primaries three years ago. Unfortunately, I don’t think the problem is the system anymore. They don’t move off ball. They don’t want to move off ball. They want to win in isolation and they’ve both become below average shooters (a major problem when they are insistent upon taking tough shots late in the shot clock). I just don’t see how you can justify 1/3 of your salary cap for Jaylen Brown. I like him as a player. He is a nightmare in transition and can get tough buckets when he has a head of steam. But there just isn’t enough juice in the half court on either end. I understand YOU would pay Jaylen Brown $47 million a year. But why? I think the onus is on management to justify such a contract. It’s too much money for what he offers. At this point, his reputation far exceeds his contributions on the court. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 6, 2023 14:48:49 GMT -5
Jaylen Browns best offensive years both in regular season and playoffs were under Stevens. That was with Kemba with one good knee. Danny wanted to trade him for Holiday, yet the cost was crazy. We haven't had a true floor general since. Yet if you believe in advanced stats, it's rather clear the systems used by our last two coaches have made Brown worst, even as he's improved in other areas. Years ago it was Tatum and Brown weren't ready and you lacked a floor general. Now it's the system and you still lack a floor general.
It's just a shame that Kemba got injured, hindsight you keep Rozier and things would have been crazy different. Heck Stevens is still likely coaching.
We've seen the Jays move around for years. This iso crap didn't start to Raptors series after Walker was injured, because the zone D and traps killed him. Yet even then it was just Tatum, nothing like what Ime installed and Joe basically kept doing. Now remember the offense before Walker injured his knee or guy back to 2018 with Rozier. Heck first half of game one versus Heat, had them moving. Yet you need to run plays and an offense for that to happen. It's not taking my work either, Barkley said the same thing, they don't run plays or offense.
Why? With the right coaching and an actual offense, I believe he's worth that. Plus it will increase his trade value, while giving you time to find the right deal if you want to trade him at some point in the future. I don't believe we've seen Browns best yet!
You offer him a crap deal, he rejects it and demands a trade. You just lost leverage and every team would worry he bolts after one year, likely lowering your return. What if the right deal isn't there right now? Yet now you're forced to, so you only get a so-so return. It could literally cost you Tatum and you can't risk that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 7, 2023 16:49:18 GMT -5
Sidy Cissoko SG/SF from France, played in G league with year. Was a PG overseas, SG/SF in US. 6'6" 6'9" wingspan 220 pounds, 30.5/35.5 vertical. Range 20-40. Had to give him a look given all the reports about his D. Raw player with very good upside. Massive change from his Euro tape to US tape, much more powerful athlete, looks better than his numbers. Shooting his his biggest weakness, yet nice looking stroke, yet zero off the dribble 3s. Explosive in open court, great vision and a very good passer. Good going to basket, has power. He'll make passes US players would never even try, like half court bounce pass under basket for a layup. Like a lot of former Euro guys, he has skills, shows a bunch of moves, yet he needs more time. Can block shots and get a bunch of steals, yet will need to refine his D. Like Rondo, he'll gamble a lot going for the big play. Some of his dribbling, like behind the back and style is like Rondo. I'm talking UK Rondo by the way. That might be my comp, bigger Rondo meets Jaylen Brown, who in G league played off the ball because he played with Hardy. Frankly I don't know what he'll be in the pros, it could be PG to SF. Just depends how he develops. I tend to believe he's more of a first round guy than mid second. I'll add he gets the ball he uses it by shooting or passing, there's no moving it around. Yet that might just be all the young guys on the ignite team.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Jun 7, 2023 18:38:06 GMT -5
Chris Paul getting waived
Would be nice to have a pure PG. Limit his minutes. Ring chase with us Christopher!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 7, 2023 21:24:59 GMT -5
He can't stay healthy and signing him will require extra moves and hard cap you. Yet he's absolutely worth it!
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 8, 2023 8:48:08 GMT -5
I just don’t see Paul coming to Boston over a return to Phoenix or joining his buddy in LA, but yea he’d be a great add if they could get him for minimum money.
Brogdon injuring his elbow and not being able to shoot in the Miami series was the issue with him, imo and really hurt the team. At a time 3 point shooting submarined us, we lost our best 3 point shooter.
UMASS, i missed most of Dukes season this year so can’t really comment on whitehead other than to say if they are in a spot to draft him at 35 he’s 100% worth the upside at that point.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 10, 2023 15:34:59 GMT -5
The Miami Heat are who we thought they were
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 10, 2023 17:24:45 GMT -5
Yeah when they make 45% and 43% of their 3s like against the Bucks and Celtics they can beat anyone. They come back down to earth at 36% against Nuggets and you wonder how they made the finals.
I'm calling it the Max Strus curse, he trolled the Celtics for releasing him years later and Bam the magic went away. It's like those undrafted guys started buying the hype they were getting.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 11, 2023 11:28:39 GMT -5
The Heat are not coming down to earth. They are playing a team that is closing out on their threes, not biting on the Jimmy BS, and whose two best players know how to run a halfcourt offense. It was pretty obvious this was going to happen.
OR, we could just say “the Celtics caught a hot team” for the 5th year in a row or whatever.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2023 11:59:12 GMT -5
Celtics were 2nd in D, Bucks 4th, Denver is middle of the pack. Reminds me of 76ers I think in 2018, made those deadline moves for shooters, they all got hot. Bulldozed through end of season and round one, then went cold against us and they got beat easily. It happens a lot if you have a bunch of shooters.
You also have the Nuggets playing big, something we couldn't do as Horford is starting to age. That means Love in for Martin. Why I kept calling for Grant more, that team can't go big. Why I also said we needed another defensive big. Celtics D wasn't the same without Robert Williams on the floor.
Nuggets run offense, a zone D does nothing to that offense.
So Maimi offense was just luck, their zone D wasn't and that's the Celtics issue for years. Funny thing is Denver can't play zone D like Miami can, we would have done much better against them.
Now we can disagree about how to address the zone D issues, yet can anyone actually say zone D isn't this teams huge issue and it's not even close?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Jun 11, 2023 13:47:19 GMT -5
Charles Lee hired as a the lead assistant. Seems like a good move from the things I’ve read about him
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 11, 2023 20:34:59 GMT -5
I still would like a guy with actual HC experience, yet they certainly added two coaches that make them better.
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Post by jmei on Jun 12, 2023 10:52:12 GMT -5
I continue to maintain that, in the current NBA, drawing up good plays on a whiteboard is less important than being able to get buy-in from your star players. From that perspective, it seems preferable to have young, Black, ex-player lead assistants who have championship experience than retread former head coaches. I am confident that Tatum, Brown, Smart, etc. are going to be more receptive to coaching from Lee and Cassell than they would have been from, say, Terry Stotts (not to pick on him, but just the example that came to mind first).
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Post by texs31 on Jun 12, 2023 11:11:28 GMT -5
I would just argue that LESS important doesn't equal NOT important. And since there is (seemingly) room on the staff, adding a former coach to what they already have would add a voice that they don't have.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 12, 2023 12:50:04 GMT -5
I'd argue its not about these guys with experience so much helping the players. Two years in a row, they bought in and played hard. It's about helping the coaches. You bring in Veterans like Griffin to help the players, I don't understand not doing that with the coaches. Heck Stevens literally said they would hire a coach with HC experiences.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jun 12, 2023 14:41:22 GMT -5
Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo floated a Jaylen Brown for Darius Garland swap, and I'm all in. Honestly might take more than JB. If Cleveland is really panicking after their ouster and wanted to hand the keys to Mitchell and Mobley, what about something like Garland and Jarrett Allen for Smart and Brown as a starting point? We might have to send a pick, or Robert Williams or something, but I'd figure a way to make that work, get a REAL PG, improve at Big. Cleveland settles THEIR guard rotation, gets out of the Twin Tower business, can play Smart at 2 or 3... Never gonna happen but if you wanted to retool the mix, that's a road I'd LOVE.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Jun 12, 2023 14:47:23 GMT -5
Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo floated a Jaylen Brown for Darius Garland swap, and I'm all in. Honestly might take more than JB. If Cleveland is really panicking after their ouster and wanted to hand the keys to Mitchell and Mobley, what about something like Garland and Jarrett Allen for Smart and Brown as a starting point? We might have to send a pick, or Robert Williams or something, but I'd figure a way to make that work, get a REAL PG, improve at Big. Cleveland settles THEIR guard rotation, gets out of the Twin Tower business, can play Smart at 2 or 3... Never gonna happen but if you wanted to retool the mix, that's a road I'd LOVE. Id do something around JB and Garland too |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 12, 2023 16:05:33 GMT -5
Bobi Klintman sf/pf/small ball center. One of the biggest ranges in draft, mid first to mid 2nd round. Very good size, a good not great athlete. From Sweden where he played and then came to Prudue. A big upside guy, I've seen many comps, I come away thinking he's a young raw Lamar Odom type player. He could be a point forward in time, good handle for a guy his size and great passing vision like most Euro players. One of the better looking jump shots you'll see in a guy his size. Needs to add strength and power for NBA, he's no where near ready and frankly should have went back to college because he has lottery upside. I'd rather more NBA ready type guys, yet you can't overlook his upside. Watch his highlight tape and you think he's a mid first round pick, yet his production was rather horrible in college. Big plus is has a year going from euro to American style and he certainly looked a lot different. Had to mention him because of his upside and he's likely a guy the Celtics would be interested in. He's removing himself from the draft, per reports. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 12, 2023 16:38:48 GMT -5
Wow kinda shocking as he already lost his college eligibility and that really seemed to help him.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jun 12, 2023 17:51:28 GMT -5
Another perspective:
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Jun 12, 2023 22:02:45 GMT -5
Crazy that Joel Empty got the MVP over that guy
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Jun 12, 2023 22:06:57 GMT -5
Happy for the Nugs. Jimmy and Bam remaining ringless brings me joy
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 22:24:40 GMT -5
Glad the Nuggets won but my only gripe is why wasn't this game yesterday? Don't get why they took an extra day off. Selfishly I'd just have much rather had a Sunday game than Monday.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 12, 2023 22:32:58 GMT -5
The thing with Klimtman was he pulled out of combine right before it started, rumors he was promised by Pacers to be a first round pick why he pulled out. Combine could have been huge for him to showcase his game. I'm not shocked he withdrew from draft, I'm surprised he did it after the date to retain his college eligibility. Huge difference in his international tape and College tape. I've seen that with multiple guys this year. I don't think another year overseas helps him as much as another year in College.
I'm not surprised Hollinger isn't high on him. If I remember right he was big on his model based off stats and his stats sucked. It's all about what he can become, not what he is. Which frankly is most of the young guys predicted to go in the first round.
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