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Celtics 2023 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 13, 2023 10:44:29 GMT -5
Anyone remember the draft debate about the #3 pick we used on Brown? Murray now has two playoff runs where he's put up advanced numbers in playoffs Brown has never come close too age 22 and age 25. Murray gets better in playoffs and Brown gets worse. I hear so many excuses about age, that might be true with Tatum, unfortunately it currently isn't true with Brown. I guess we just hope he's a late bloomer. #Browns not a super max player!
The Nuggets two star players just averaged 17.2 assists per game in the Finals. Tatum and Brown averaged 8.4 against that same Heat team. Team basketball, running offense versus just iso. Yet I hear so much just run it back, we don't need X and O, it's fine with those two running the offense, look at their age.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 14, 2023 8:06:28 GMT -5
As we get closer to draft, I'll start looking at less perfect fits.
Amari Bailey PG/SG 6'3" 6'7" wingspan 191 pounds, 28.5/35 vertical. Was a top recruit that really struggled early on, yet came on late. Best stretch of play last 6 games in conference finals and NCAA tournament, followed by being a star playing at NBA combine. Seen a comp of Avery Bradley plus, I think that fits rather well. In high school known as a score first PG, at UCLA the offense ran through Jaime Jaquez. He has a much better handle than Bradley and had as many deflections using his arms on tape as anyone I watched. Now at his size, with our switch everything D, there will be issues. Yet he competes, puts in a bunch of effort and gets a bunch of steals. I could see him pressuring guards like Bradley did.
What really helps his case is the NBA combine, "exhibited a high IQ, impressive creativity and composure as a ball handler" sound like something the Celtics could use? Was huge because not a ton of that at UCLA because they didn't use him as a PG. Just little flashes here and there.
That's a lot of improvement in one year. His shot is likely the biggest worry, little awkward, yet goes in. I think he'll be fine, yet not some gunner type shooter. Takes a ton of jumpers inside 3 point line. Gets to rim, shows some moves, yet will need work. Likely more of mid range type guy in the paint at his size. Very good on fast breaks, good court vision and is always looking to find teammates. Much more skilled than our 2nd round prospect last year, yet add in Madar and we have a ton of guards.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 14, 2023 19:08:22 GMT -5
How things have changed, Wizards announce they'll work with Beal to trade him and there's nothing on here.
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Post by philarhody on Jun 14, 2023 20:15:13 GMT -5
It would be kind of awesome for Brad to trade everything but Tatum and Brown for Beal. Can you imagine the basketball bliss as each guy takes a turn taking on five defenders while the other two stand around?
This is this team’s destiny. Do it Bradley Kent Stevens, you lover of childish superstars, you.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jun 14, 2023 21:52:28 GMT -5
Anyone remember the draft debate about the #3 pick we used on Brown? Murray now has two playoff runs where he's put up advanced numbers in playoffs Brown has never come close too age 22 and age 25. Murray gets better in playoffs and Brown gets worse. I hear so many excuses about age, that might be true with Tatum, unfortunately it currently isn't true with Brown. I guess we just hope he's a late bloomer. #Browns not a super max player! The Nuggets two star players just averaged 17.2 assists per game in the Finals. Tatum and Brown averaged 8.4 against that same Heat team. Team basketball, running offense versus just iso. Yet I hear so much just run it back, we don't need X and O, it's fine with those two running the offense, look at their age. Brown was the best player in this team in last year’s run. I do very much agree with your other point about the Celtics needing to rely less on ISO ball. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 14, 2023 22:00:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't do it, given contract and the fact he's missed so many games for years now. That being said, wouldn't it just be an upgraded version of last years team? That's exactly what you got with Tatum, Brown and Brogdon.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 14, 2023 22:21:11 GMT -5
Brown was better last year, yet I don't think he was our best player, even with Tatum melting down in finals. You could say he was their best scorer, yet that's the problem! There's a lot more to Basketball than just scoring and even then Tatum takes so much pressure off him, which was glaring in game 7 with Tatum injured.
That being said coaching is a huge problem. Under Stevens I remember Brown helping shutdown 76ers shooters, giving Reddick fits. Shutting down Siakam like an all NBA defender. Where has that been the last two years? His strength can be one on one D, his weakness is Basketball IQ and switch everything doesn't help him, just like iso everything offense. That's what gives me hope.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 15, 2023 15:56:21 GMT -5
Reports that Wizards likely to trade Beal by draft and the return won't be what people expect given his no trade clause and salary. Given his salary you can't easily get him, easiest way is two of Smart, White or Brogdon with some filler. Seen some crazy White, Horford, Grant S and T, Pritchard, etc crap. Which is crazy with the new CBA as you won't have mid-level to sign anyone. Imagine having just Robert Williams and Kornet for bigs.
I'd be more interested in something like trading Brogdon to Lakers for Vanderbilt, Bamba and while I'd love that first round pick at 17, their 2nd at 47, with a future 2nd. Not a perfect trade, yet increases your depth at areas of need. Takes away an iso guy who's a bad defender and adds D. Allows you to keep Pritchard and frees up money to keep Grant. Lakers hated Vanderbilt, yet he's perfect for us if you're going to play a ball movement offense and focus on D.
Another thing I haven't seen posted, new CBA gives you 3 two way contract spots.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 15, 2023 21:55:06 GMT -5
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2023 12:26:35 GMT -5
Seems like they’re looking to do what you want- trade from the backcourt depth and get better roster balance I saw they inquired on Isaiah Stewart |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 16, 2023 23:02:46 GMT -5
….what do we think about Draymond?
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Post by trajanacc on Jun 17, 2023 7:57:57 GMT -5
Would love to see them make a run at Zion if he really is available and the price is reasonable. I believe his ceiling as a player is MVP-level, higher than Brown's, and he would give them a different way to attack offensively along with the spacing they often lacked. A front line of Tatum/Zion/Rob would be so athletic and difficult to contain.
Obviously there's the injury risk which is real but also a bit overstated IMO. Sounds like he needs a change of scenery.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2023 8:52:03 GMT -5
A bit overstated? Zion has played in only 34.8% of the games over last four years. With a 5 year max contract just starting this year. I'd have to see the medicals before I'd even make a Brogdon and Galo type deal. Games plated 24, 61, 0, 29, he makes Robert Williams look like an Iron Man. We've been playing around 20 extra playoff games a year also. He needs to watch how Robert Williams changed how he plays, he no longer runs around like a chicken with his head cutoff, he also didn't get injured for the first time! Unless he does, he'll never be healthy.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2023 8:52:36 GMT -5
….what do we think about Draymond? No, even though he could certainly help. |
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Post by trajanacc on Jun 17, 2023 9:15:20 GMT -5
A bit overstated? Zion has played in only 34.8% of the games over last four years. With a 5 year max contract just starting this year. I'd have to see the medicals before I'd even make a Brogdon and Galo type deal. Games plated 24, 61, 0, 29, he makes Robert Williams look like an Iron Man. We've been playing around 20 extra playoff games a year also. He needs to watch how Robert Williams changed how he plays, he no longer runs around like a chicken with his head cutoff, he also didn't get injured for the first time! Unless he does, he'll never be healthy. Yeah, but that's what already happened, when he played for the Pelicans. Not necessarily predictive of what will happen in the next few years if he is playing for a different team. People act like because he's missed a lot of time, he will definitely continue to miss a lot of time. Everyone is aware of his injury problems so he's going to be discounted compared to what you would normally expect to have to pay for a 22 year old physical freak who has been all-NBA level when he's on the court and is still really raw with a lot of aspects of his game to improve. If he "shows he can be healthy," the price is going to go way up. Obviously he carries more risk than most other players. But with risk comes the opportunity to get a guy who could be the co-franchise player for many years--possibly for as low a price as Smart plus picks--which would raise the team's ceiling both for '24 and long-term significantly. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 11:50:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't do it, given contract and the fact he's missed so many games for years now. That being said, wouldn't it just be an upgraded version of last years team? That's exactly what you got with Tatum, Brown and Brogdon. No it would not be an upgrade. It would be a downgrade. Adding Bradley Beal to a team of isolating scorers is a recipe for disaster. But I’m at the point where disaster is more intriguing with this team than the contending mediocrity we’ve seen for 6 years. And thinking that Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum are going to figure it out for the 6th season in a row is about as stupid as adding Bradley Beal. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 11:53:04 GMT -5
Would love to see them make a run at Zion if he really is available and the price is reasonable. I believe his ceiling as a player is MVP-level, higher than Brown's, and he would give them a different way to attack offensively along with the spacing they often lacked. A front line of Tatum/Zion/Rob would be so athletic and difficult to contain. Obviously there's the injury risk which is real but also a bit overstated IMO. Sounds like he needs a change of scenery. Zion is a selfish person. He played the Pelicans. He’s reliant on athleticism Ala Blake Griffin. Except he’s short and fat. But yeah, I’d trade Jaylen for him. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 11:54:04 GMT -5
A bit overstated? Zion has played in only 34.8% of the games over last four years. With a 5 year max contract just starting this year. I'd have to see the medicals before I'd even make a Brogdon and Galo type deal. Games plated 24, 61, 0, 29, he makes Robert Williams look like an Iron Man. We've been playing around 20 extra playoff games a year also. He needs to watch how Robert Williams changed how he plays, he no longer runs around like a chicken with his head cutoff, he also didn't get injured for the first time! Unless he does, he'll never be healthy. Dude, you’d have to see the medicals before trading Malcolm Brogdon and Gallo for him? What universe is this? |
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Post by trajanacc on Jun 17, 2023 12:02:28 GMT -5
Would love to see them make a run at Zion if he really is available and the price is reasonable. I believe his ceiling as a player is MVP-level, higher than Brown's, and he would give them a different way to attack offensively along with the spacing they often lacked. A front line of Tatum/Zion/Rob would be so athletic and difficult to contain. Obviously there's the injury risk which is real but also a bit overstated IMO. Sounds like he needs a change of scenery. Zion is a selfish person. He played the Pelicans. He’s reliant on athleticism Ala Blake Griffin. Except he’s short and fat. But yeah, I’d trade Jaylen for him. Curious, do you mean selfish in terms of his on-court style of play, or his actual personality? Follow-up question...if the latter, how much time have you spent with Zion personally? |
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Post by tizzle on Jun 17, 2023 12:45:51 GMT -5
What I've heard on the radio from inside source types is that they are active in trade talks, but it's mostly Pritchard and GWilliams moves. Could be wrong, of course, but that's the buzz. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jun 17, 2023 16:31:10 GMT -5
A bit overstated? Zion has played in only 34.8% of the games over last four years. With a 5 year max contract just starting this year. I'd have to see the medicals before I'd even make a Brogdon and Galo type deal. Games plated 24, 61, 0, 29, he makes Robert Williams look like an Iron Man. We've been playing around 20 extra playoff games a year also. He needs to watch how Robert Williams changed how he plays, he no longer runs around like a chicken with his head cutoff, he also didn't get injured for the first time! Unless he does, he'll never be healthy. Dude, you’d have to see the medicals before trading Malcolm Brogdon and Gallo for him? What universe is this? Been healthy heading into playoffs once in four years and that was after playing only 29 games his rookie year. Full 5 year max contract. Aren't we trying to win a championship? |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,854
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Post by cdj on Jun 17, 2023 19:16:36 GMT -5
Zion is a selfish person. He played the Pelicans. He’s reliant on athleticism Ala Blake Griffin. Except he’s short and fat. But yeah, I’d trade Jaylen for him. Curious, do you mean selfish in terms of his on-court style of play, or his actual personality? Follow-up question...if the latter, how much time have you spent with Zion personally? I can tell you he’s actually a good dude off the court, at least from what I know anecdotally. He did a gender reveal for the baby of an old teammate of mine when he absolutely had no obligation to do so. Nice of a national superstar at the time (this was when he was at Duke) to take time out of his day to do something memorable for a couple |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 23:27:37 GMT -5
Zion is a selfish person. He played the Pelicans. He’s reliant on athleticism Ala Blake Griffin. Except he’s short and fat. But yeah, I’d trade Jaylen for him. Curious, do you mean selfish in terms of his on-court style of play, or his actual personality? Follow-up question...if the latter, how much time have you spent with Zion personally? This may come as a major surprise to you. But I have spent no time with Zion Williamson. He is a selfish teammate because he cannot stay in shape which means he cannot be healthy which means he cannot be there for his teammates. And I don’t think he cares. And that makes him selfish. And if you don’t see it that way, that’s perfectly ok. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 23:32:13 GMT -5
Dude, you’d have to see the medicals before trading Malcolm Brogdon and Gallo for him? What universe is this? Been healthy heading into playoffs once in four years and that was after playing only 29 games his rookie year. Full 5 year max contract. Aren't we trying to win a championship? When you put it that way, maybe we shouldn’t trade Brogdon and Gallinari for Zion Williamson. Serious Note: The Pelicans are not trading Zion for Malcolm Brogdon and Danilo Gallinari, regardless of medical reports. |
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Post by philarhody on Jun 17, 2023 23:39:06 GMT -5
Curious, do you mean selfish in terms of his on-court style of play, or his actual personality? Follow-up question...if the latter, how much time have you spent with Zion personally? I can tell you he’s actually a good dude off the court, at least from what I know anecdotally. He did a gender reveal for the baby of an old teammate of mine when he absolutely had no obligation to do so. Nice of a national superstar at the time (this was when he was at Duke) to take time out of his day to do something memorable for a couple Yeah, he is well known for his gender reveal parties. |
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