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2023 Trade Deadline Thread
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Post by ortiz on Jun 13, 2023 13:38:24 GMT -5
You have to really squint to see this team as anything close to a contender, and after the tire fire that was last season, I don’t want to hear about how close they are to the last WC spot or what fangraphs says their playoff odds are. They should be in a great opportunity to move some of their expiring deals and even eat their contract to get some prospect capital. I’m sick and tired of hearing “no THIS is the off-season for Bloom” but we’ve reached that breaking point and maybe with an influx of prospects he can get creative and acquire some controllable talent this winter. Agreed, I was under the impression that this past offseason was "the offseason for bloom" and that was a wimper. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 13, 2023 14:21:41 GMT -5
If they’re really out of it by the deadline then the guy who might actually get you something meaningful is Verdugo.
I still don’t think you can commit to him long term so it might not be a bad idea either.
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briam
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Post by briam on Jun 13, 2023 14:33:58 GMT -5
Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale!
But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
Why are folks so hot on Nola? He'll be 31 this offseason and likely want an exorbitant amount of cash and years. Much prefer Yamamoto who will be 25, have a cheaper AAV and maybe even a higher ceiling than Nola. Also, I can see Houck getting knocked down to the bullpen by Drohan if he shoves the rest of the year at Worcester.
Also, agree on Paxton. Would be hard seeing someone give up a top 100 prospect for him. I've brought it up before, but if the Padres are seriously making a run at it this season, I'd like to snag Ha Seong Kim to have some security in the MIF until the end of next season.
Also no QO on Yamamoto and I’m sure having a potential team Japan teammate in Yoshida wouldn’t hurt! |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 13, 2023 14:36:54 GMT -5
If they trade Verdugo then they need to turn around and get another OF for next year. Not really seeing it.
Arizona is a good Paxton destination. Best record in the NL but in a dog fight to win their division and get the bye. Only two good starting pitchers. They've sucked for a while so they might get a little excited about this season.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Jun 13, 2023 14:51:54 GMT -5
If they trade Verdugo then they need to turn around and get another OF for next year. Not really seeing it. Arizona is a good Paxton destination. Best record in the NL but in a dog fight to win their division and get the bye. Only two good starting pitchers. They've sucked for a while so they might get a little excited about this season. Arizona gets Paxton Verdugo Duvall and Butch Hobsons vintage stash for Druw Jones. Get it done!! Lol |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 15:01:29 GMT -5
If they trade Verdugo then they need to turn around and get another OF for next year. Not really seeing it. Arizona is a good Paxton destination. Best record in the NL but in a dog fight to win their division and get the bye. Only two good starting pitchers. They've sucked for a while so they might get a little excited about this season. Arizona gets Paxton Verdugo Duvall and Butch Hobsons vintage stash for Druw Jones. Get it done!! Lol Ha, Jones would be a heavy ask but he's been hurt for two straight years now so you never know but we kinda know that ain't happening. That being said the D'Backs still have plenty of other intriguing prospects/players outside of Jones/Lawler. I'd love to pry Alek Thomas and maybe Pfaadt or Walston from them. Probably too high an ask but that'd be the type of return that would get me thinking alright cya later Paxton and Verdugo with no 2nd thoughts. |
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Post by Guidas on Jun 13, 2023 15:49:59 GMT -5
You make some interesting points in the "Keep Him" camp. The biggest turd in the proverbial punchbowl is what talented team is Paxton going to be an 'ace' for potentially? This meh 2023 team? The potentially still meh (but with upside) 2024 team?Then on top of all that, you'd still be banking on him remaining uninjured for 2 straight seasons. That all sounds akin to a Ponzi Scheme, in my skeptical opinion 😅 Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale! But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
If this team can win 10-12 in a row or even 10/12 they are firmly in the WC and could be buyers. That to me is the most intriguing option because 1) It will be interesting to see how much rope ownership gives the front office if they're just a couple games above the WC threshold. That would be the firmest indication of their belief in Bloom going forward. And 2) Bloom has been reticent to deal from his top 5-10 prospects on the farm and that's the only way you're getting an impact player in a position of need who's more than a rental. As for next year, Urias over Nola, please. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 16:01:12 GMT -5
Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale! But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
If this team can win 10-12 in a row or even 10/12 they are firmly in the WC and could be buyers. That to me is the most intriguing option because 1) It will be interesting to see how much rope ownership gives the front office if they're just a couple games above the WC threshold. That would be the firmest indication of their belief in Bloom going forward. And 2) Bloom has been reticent to deal from his top 5-10 prospects on the farm and that's the only way you're getting an impact player in a position of need who's more than a rental. As for next year, Urias over Nola, please. I too would be most intrigued to see what Bloom and Co. do in a scenario where they should be legit buyers at the deadline. Not saying go out and make a Soto-esque deal but as you've said what was Bloom's highest ranked prospect he traded? I want to say Aldo Ramirez who was hovering in or around 10th or so? In a worst farm system than now. Theoretically Bloom should have some cards in his hand to deal if they are buyers. That being said who in the top 5-10 should they be dealing? Obviously it matters on the return but certainly not looking to deal any of Mayer/Bleis/Rafaela/Yorke/Drohan/Anthony/Romero for a rental so to me I'm keeping the top 7 off the table. Looking at the rest of the current top 10, Perales has an electric arm, Mata probably isn't fetching much back as a headliner, might Valdez return something for a team looking for a cheap solution at 2nd? The best things I've seen thrown around about the Sox farm is the depth of it so does multiple guys in that 8-20 range bring back a real difference maker? Would Bloom even deal multiple from that range? Obviously that was just a quick dive into what maybe could net something back using this site's rankings and other teams and even the Sox are going to have their own rankings that they're going to go off of. |
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Post by kwodes on Jun 13, 2023 16:41:28 GMT -5
Assuming we are sellers at the deadline, I think a good way for Chaim to "flex our financial muscle" would be to trade the big names who are free agents at the end of the year and to eat ALL of their salary. Sox will be under the CBT anyway, so why not eat all of the money on the guys they send out to maximize the prospect returns on them?
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 13, 2023 17:02:15 GMT -5
I wonder if the Sox use their space under the cap if the opportunity arises. They could hypothetically take on salary to either reduce the prospect cost for a rental, or use it to take on a prospect. Of course it takes two to tango.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,779
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Post by nomar on Jun 13, 2023 17:19:44 GMT -5
If they trade Verdugo then they need to turn around and get another OF for next year. Not really seeing it. Arizona is a good Paxton destination. Best record in the NL but in a dog fight to win their division and get the bye. Only two good starting pitchers. They've sucked for a while so they might get a little excited about this season. Teoscar Hernandez makes sense to me as a free agent in that scenario. Could use a righty power bat too. I’m not saying any of this is likely anyway. |
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Jun 13, 2023 17:30:13 GMT -5
Boston's going nowhere fast this year. Same as last season. So, trade players, eat salary, obtain quality minor leaguers, and still remain under the tax. This "one foot in and one foot out" scenario leads to future mediocrity, especially with ownership showing no stomach for throwing money around like the Mets.
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Post by taiwansox on Jun 13, 2023 17:33:35 GMT -5
Boston's going nowhere fast this year. Same as last season. So, trade players, eat salary, obtain quality minor leaguers, and still remain under the tax. This "one foot in and one foot out" scenario leads to future mediocrity, especially with ownership showing no stomach for throwing money around like the Mets. We do have a better record than the Mets lol |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 13, 2023 17:34:33 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I don't think there's much recent history of teams straight up selling prospects for cash money at favorable exchange rates. I think the Sox eating salary is only likely to get sufficiently juicy returns if the other team is struggling to stay under the luxury tax line. Those teams are Texas, Houston, San Francisco and then possibly the Angels are still under.
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Post by jdb on Jun 13, 2023 17:38:03 GMT -5
I wonder if the Sox use their space under the cap if the opportunity arises. They could hypothetically take on salary to either reduce the prospect cost for a rental, or use it to take on a prospect. Of course it takes two to tango. The Dodgers are trying their hardest to stay under and we have a little wiggle room. What about a Paxton move with Syndergaards contract and a higher prospect haul. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 13, 2023 17:40:27 GMT -5
Cot's has the Dodgers at 255 million which would be well over. They could be wrong though
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Post by jdb on Jun 13, 2023 18:07:51 GMT -5
Cot's has the Dodgers at 255 million which would be well over. They could be wrong though I could very well be wrong as well. I thought they were getting under to go after Ohtani and they might have gotten some Bauer relief somehow. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 13, 2023 20:39:37 GMT -5
Cot's has the Dodgers at 255 million which would be well over. They could be wrong though I could very well be wrong as well. I thought they were getting under to go after Ohtani and they might have gotten some Bauer relief somehow. I think they had Bauer relief the past couple years, but he was reinstated unofficially this past off-season and was released. So his salary counts this year. |
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 14, 2023 7:25:43 GMT -5
Paxton, Hernandez, and Martin for Endy Rodriguez and a project in Contreras (the SP)?
I mean it all fits but I don’t see Cherrington being that short sighted.
He may know he needs bullpen and an SP but will probably just wait for Rodriguez and Davis to get to the MLB and worry about the rotation in the off-season
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 14, 2023 8:08:05 GMT -5
Another thing that needs to be considered here is the upcoming offseason. How are you going to improve this team before next year? This free agent class is sub-par to say the least. After Ohtani, you’ve got a 30 year old Matt Chapman and then a very steep drop off. Let’s be honest, we’re not getting Ohtani and we are already set at 3B so Chapman isn’t coming here. There’s no sure fire player to improve the roster in free agency on the hitting side. Admittedly the pitching side is stronger with Urias, Nola, Giolito, Snell, and some lower level arms. You’re unlikely to find an impact player to improve the roster through free agency this year though. So you’re looking for prospects or to trade for a player.
Looking around the league at players that would be available at the deadline for non-system destroying rates, there’s not really anyone that stands out as the player to get us over the hump. The media won’t like it and the fans won’t like it, but this deadline should be about prospect acquisition. Get some more prospects in the system and see what you’ve got. See who is going to develop as an impact player in your system and build the farm up enough that you can trade some in the off-season when more guys become available.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 14, 2023 8:24:46 GMT -5
Another thing that needs to be considered here is the upcoming offseason. How are you going to improve this team before next year? This free agent class is sub-par to say the least. After Ohtani, you’ve got a 30 year old Matt Chapman and then a very steep drop off. Let’s be honest, we’re not getting Ohtani and we are already set at 3B so Chapman isn’t coming here. There’s no sure fire player to improve the roster in free agency on the hitting side. Admittedly the pitching side is stronger with Urias, Nola, Giolito, Snell, and some lower level arms. You’re unlikely to find an impact player to improve the roster through free agency this year though. So you’re looking for prospects or to trade for a player. Looking around the league at players that would be available at the deadline for non-system destroying rates, there’s not really anyone that stands out as the player to get us over the hump. The media won’t like it and the fans won’t like it, but this deadline should be about prospect acquisition. Get some more prospects in the system and see what you’ve got. See who is going to develop as an impact player in your system and build the farm up enough that you can trade some in the off-season when more guys become available. How do you reconcile the two bolded sentences with each other? Are Urias or Nola not impact players who would improve the roster?
It's true enough on the position side. The current roster is strong enough at every position, and the free agent class is weak enough, that it may be. I'd love to upgrade the middle infield, but there are just no options there at all. Unless Adam Frazier gets you all hot and bothered. But that just returns me to the point that it would make an awful lot of sense to take a run at some high-end pitching.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 14, 2023 8:27:36 GMT -5
Another thing that needs to be considered here is the upcoming offseason. How are you going to improve this team before next year? This free agent class is sub-par to say the least. After Ohtani, you’ve got a 30 year old Matt Chapman and then a very steep drop off. Let’s be honest, we’re not getting Ohtani and we are already set at 3B so Chapman isn’t coming here. There’s no sure fire player to improve the roster in free agency on the hitting side. Admittedly the pitching side is stronger with Urias, Nola, Giolito, Snell, and some lower level arms. You’re unlikely to find an impact player to improve the roster through free agency this year though. So you’re looking for prospects or to trade for a player. Looking around the league at players that would be available at the deadline for non-system destroying rates, there’s not really anyone that stands out as the player to get us over the hump. The media won’t like it and the fans won’t like it, but this deadline should be about prospect acquisition. Get some more prospects in the system and see what you’ve got. See who is going to develop as an impact player in your system and build the farm up enough that you can trade some in the off-season when more guys become available. How do you reconcile the two bolded sentences with each other? Are Urias or Nola not impact players who would improve the roster? It's true enough on the position side. The current roster is strong enough at every position, and the free agent class is weak enough, that it may be. I'd love to upgrade the middle infield, but there are just no options there at all. Unless Adam Frazier gets you all hot and bothered. But that just returns me to the point that it would make an awful lot of sense to take a run at some high-end pitching.
Or they could trade from the now-Top 15 to Top 10 farm system to get a shortstop/second baseman or an impact pitcher. Or are we going to live under the Cherington delusion that all these top 5-10 guys in the system are future All Stars and shall not be moved? |
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 14, 2023 8:42:08 GMT -5
Another thing that needs to be considered here is the upcoming offseason. How are you going to improve this team before next year? This free agent class is sub-par to say the least. After Ohtani, you’ve got a 30 year old Matt Chapman and then a very steep drop off. Let’s be honest, we’re not getting Ohtani and we are already set at 3B so Chapman isn’t coming here. There’s no sure fire player to improve the roster in free agency on the hitting side. Admittedly the pitching side is stronger with Urias, Nola, Giolito, Snell, and some lower level arms. You’re unlikely to find an impact player to improve the roster through free agency this year though. So you’re looking for prospects or to trade for a player. Looking around the league at players that would be available at the deadline for non-system destroying rates, there’s not really anyone that stands out as the player to get us over the hump. The media won’t like it and the fans won’t like it, but this deadline should be about prospect acquisition. Get some more prospects in the system and see what you’ve got. See who is going to develop as an impact player in your system and build the farm up enough that you can trade some in the off-season when more guys become available. How do you reconcile the two bolded sentences with each other? Are Urias or Nola not impact players who would improve the roster?
It's true enough on the position side. The current roster is strong enough at every position, and the free agent class is weak enough, that it may be. I'd love to upgrade the middle infield, but there are just no options there at all. Unless Adam Frazier gets you all hot and bothered. But that just returns me to the point that it would make an awful lot of sense to take a run at some high-end pitching.
Let’s rephrase that to say there’s no impact player to improve the lineup. Probably should have made that point clearer. I would be happy to get one or more of the free agent starting pitchers. I just don’t see the bats there and the offense has been the problem more often than not lately. |
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briam
Veteran
Posts: 1,224
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Post by briam on Jun 14, 2023 8:47:01 GMT -5
Another thing that needs to be considered here is the upcoming offseason. How are you going to improve this team before next year? This free agent class is sub-par to say the least. After Ohtani, you’ve got a 30 year old Matt Chapman and then a very steep drop off. Let’s be honest, we’re not getting Ohtani and we are already set at 3B so Chapman isn’t coming here. There’s no sure fire player to improve the roster in free agency on the hitting side. Admittedly the pitching side is stronger with Urias, Nola, Giolito, Snell, and some lower level arms. You’re unlikely to find an impact player to improve the roster through free agency this year though. So you’re looking for prospects or to trade for a player. Looking around the league at players that would be available at the deadline for non-system destroying rates, there’s not really anyone that stands out as the player to get us over the hump. The media won’t like it and the fans won’t like it, but this deadline should be about prospect acquisition. Get some more prospects in the system and see what you’ve got. See who is going to develop as an impact player in your system and build the farm up enough that you can trade some in the off-season when more guys become available. How do you reconcile the two bolded sentences with each other? Are Urias or Nola not impact players who would improve the roster?
It's true enough on the position side. The current roster is strong enough at every position, and the free agent class is weak enough, that it may be. I'd love to upgrade the middle infield, but there are just no options there at all. Unless Adam Frazier gets you all hot and bothered. But that just returns me to the point that it would make an awful lot of sense to take a run at some high-end pitching.
Issue with the position players is there are fine players at every position, but they aren’t exactly guys you want to pencil in. It’s just a whole bunch of ok. They can improve just about everywhere other than Story, Devers, and Yoshida. Verdugo probably clears the “ok” metric, but the last month has been concerning. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 14, 2023 8:47:18 GMT -5
It's not like they need to add 25 wins to have a good season. They're an average team right now. They're not losing much in free agency and will have a lot of money to spend. Trevor Story will play baseball again. Triston Casas might make the leap from well below replacement level to average.
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