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2023 Trade Deadline Thread
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 12, 2023 16:12:17 GMT -5
Not sure about 3 top 10 prospects but there's no way the White Sox would have to give up talent to move Anderson. He's having a bad season but he's coming off four straight years of being an ~4 WAR/full season guy, still projects better going forward, has a cheap team option for 2024, and would only cost the acquiring team like $5M in 2023. Honestly if they can't get something like a top 100 guy in exchange I think they'd be better off keeping him, hoping he turns it around and trying to move him in the off-season if he does. You're trading for him to play this season, so not sure how that becomes a secondary concern. .611 OPS and below average defense by measure of dWAR, I think we already have a couple of those. Besides, last year Baseball Reference had him at 1.3 WAR (about 2.6 full-year) and negative defensive value, so there was some regression prior to this year even if he wasn't this bad. I would speculate that whatever cost him 1/2 of last season is still an issue. I may be a little down on him relative to everyone else, but still a hard pass if it costs them anything beyond the ~15th prospect like ematz1423 suggested. Edit: as a note, this probably reads much more harshly than intended. I think it's a fun exercise to speculate, so read as if I had the best of intentions. Well even trading the 15th prospect in the system for him is a far cry from receiving talent to pay $5M for him. Anyways you are trading for him for the rest of the season, not for the part that already happened. So what matters is how you project him going forward. Because he has a long track record of being a good player and has a cheap contract with a team option I think there will be teams willing to give up talent to take a shot on him, and if not he has value to the White Sox to retain, he barely has to improve to be worth picking up his team option, and they could try again next deadline if they needed. I like the idea honestly I think he fits on the Red Sox, if they were willing to move him for like Brainer Bonaci I'd definitely go for it, but I think still it'll take more. And I didn't read it with any bad intentions! We're all speculating here, agreed it's fun to debate a bit on it. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 13, 2023 6:46:53 GMT -5
Yoshida because it feels like the rebuild is basically just starting and he's basically a DH. Lol no. I thought this was a bit crazy, but I didn't realize he was 29. I thought he was 27. He's a crazy unique hitter, but still a bit limited on power and his defense isn't very good. He's basically what was reported about him. I'd be open to offers only because the window isn't that wide with him, but in my dream of dreams you need him to be a friend for Ohtani. Plus, I'm assuming he'll be the same player at 32 and 33 and I'm hoping the Sox have been winning by then. For a team to take him I'd need to be blown away by it. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 13, 2023 6:48:29 GMT -5
Chaim has been doing pretty well in that department. |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 7:15:31 GMT -5
I thought this was a bit crazy, but I didn't realize he was 29. I thought he was 27. He's a crazy unique hitter, but still a bit limited on power and his defense isn't very good. He's basically what was reported about him. I'd be open to offers only because the window isn't that wide with him, but in my dream of dreams you need him to be a friend for Ohtani. Plus, I'm assuming he'll be the same player at 32 and 33 and I'm hoping the Sox have been winning by then. For a team to take him I'd need to be blown away by it. I'm firmly in the ballpark as listen on any player, nobody should be "untouchable". Same thoughts as you on trading Yoshida it would have to bring back an absolute haul. That being said I do think this team is firmly lacking in the power department both at the ML level and at the farm level. Having an OF with both Verdugo and Yoshida you're talking a COF combo that's going to be lucky to hit 30 HRs between the two of them so I wouldn't be heartbroken to see one of them dealt because theoretically they should be able to get a COF elsewhere with some serious pop, but then again nobody exactly comes to mind so maybe I'm overstating how easily they should be able to add some power to the lineup. |
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Post by kwodes on Jun 13, 2023 8:15:47 GMT -5
At this point, Paxton is either trade or extend. Offer him some team friendly extensions and if he turns them down then you almost have to trade him at the deadline.
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Post by briam on Jun 13, 2023 8:21:24 GMT -5
You have to really squint to see this team as anything close to a contender, and after the tire fire that was last season, I don’t want to hear about how close they are to the last WC spot or what fangraphs says their playoff odds are. They should be in a great opportunity to move some of their expiring deals and even eat their contract to get some prospect capital. I’m sick and tired of hearing “no THIS is the off-season for Bloom” but we’ve reached that breaking point and maybe with an influx of prospects he can get creative and acquire some controllable talent this winter.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 13, 2023 8:27:11 GMT -5
I don't think you trade Paxton unless you're definitively out of it. Things might be different if Kluber looked good and Sale was staying healthy but that is not the case. If Paxton stays here and pitches great all year, he's definitely a candidate for a Q.O.
I like the idea of Anderson if the price is right. He would shore up the offense this year, can put Story at 2nd when he comes back, provides offensive upside for the second half (if you believe his bat will progress to the mean), and his option gives you a potential SS for 2024 and a nice bridge to Mayer.
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Post by jdb on Jun 13, 2023 8:40:00 GMT -5
I think we need to capitalize on Paxton assuming we’re out. . Bringing both him and Sale back together is more of the same with injury concerns and the likelihood they spend too much time in the shop and not on the mound.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jun 13, 2023 8:52:23 GMT -5
I like the ideal of seeing what the cost for Tim Anderson would be. But what about Amed Rosario? he might be another option at SS for the Sox this year if the price is right.
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 13, 2023 9:03:55 GMT -5
I would be shopping Paxton heavy if I ran the team. If there's a top 100 prospect out there, take him before something happens.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 9:07:17 GMT -5
I like the ideal of seeing what the cost for Tim Anderson would be. But what about Amed Rosario? he might be another option at SS for the Sox this year if the price is right. Rosario has been really bad this year but the previous two he had a 2.5 and 2.3 fWAR which honestly would be just what the Sox could use at SS until Mayer hopefully ascends to the position. He might be a good change of scenery guy who shouldn't cost all that much being an FA this offseason and as I said he's been bad this season. Question would be do the Sox think he can bounce back in a new town or did he just completely regress? I think he could be worth kicking the can on provided he costs no more than a lotto ticket or two. Either way I like the thought of adding someone at SS for July through the end of the season. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 9:12:59 GMT -5
I would be shopping Paxton heavy if I ran the team. If there's a top 100 prospect out there, take him before something happens. I get it on Paxton, I don't outright disagree but what if he's now completely healthy from TJ and he's the pitcher that he's shown to be albeit in a SSS so far this season? This guys been a borderline ace for the Sox, especially if you remove his clunker vs the Angels. I get the whole fool me once methodology with Paxton but if his elbow can stay in tact most of his other injuries weren't things that should really crop up and prohibit him from having another healthy few seasons and a healthy Paxton as we've seen is a really good pitcher. If someone wants to give up a real haul for him then I'd probably take it but to me it needs to be a top 100 prospect + an intriguing lotto ticket or two depending on how far said top 100 guy is from his ML ETA. Otherwise, I might roll the dice on him with either a QO this offseason or an extension offer. |
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Post by kingstephanos on Jun 13, 2023 9:37:28 GMT -5
I would be shopping Paxton heavy if I ran the team. If there's a top 100 prospect out there, take him before something happens. I get it on Paxton, I don't outright disagree but what if he's now completely healthy from TJ and he's the pitcher that he's shown to be albeit in a SSS so far this season? This guys been a borderline ace for the Sox, especially if you remove his clunker vs the Angels. I get the whole fool me once methodology with Paxton but if his elbow can stay in tact most of his other injuries weren't things that should really crop up and prohibit him from having another healthy few seasons and a healthy Paxton as we've seen is a really good pitcher. If someone wants to give up a real haul for him then I'd probably take it but to me it needs to be a top 100 prospect + an intriguing lotto ticket or two depending on how far said top 100 guy is from his ML ETA. Otherwise, I might roll the dice on him with either a QO this offseason or an extension offer. You make some interesting points in the "Keep Him" camp. The biggest turd in the proverbial punchbowl is what talented team is Paxton going to be an 'ace' for potentially? This meh 2023 team? The potentially still meh (but with upside) 2024 team? Then on top of all that, you'd still be banking on him remaining uninjured for 2 straight seasons. That all sounds akin to a Ponzi Scheme, in my skeptical opinion 😅 |
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Post by kingstephanos on Jun 13, 2023 9:40:52 GMT -5
For me, the GM coming out and saying they're looking to buy at the deadline is HOKUM.
A FO doesn't want to give up its leverage (as one of the few selling teams) by declaring an out-n-out firesale.
Poker, economics, relationships (I kid) all operate under the reality.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 9:50:15 GMT -5
I get it on Paxton, I don't outright disagree but what if he's now completely healthy from TJ and he's the pitcher that he's shown to be albeit in a SSS so far this season? This guys been a borderline ace for the Sox, especially if you remove his clunker vs the Angels. I get the whole fool me once methodology with Paxton but if his elbow can stay in tact most of his other injuries weren't things that should really crop up and prohibit him from having another healthy few seasons and a healthy Paxton as we've seen is a really good pitcher. If someone wants to give up a real haul for him then I'd probably take it but to me it needs to be a top 100 prospect + an intriguing lotto ticket or two depending on how far said top 100 guy is from his ML ETA. Otherwise, I might roll the dice on him with either a QO this offseason or an extension offer. You make some interesting points in the "Keep Him" camp. The biggest turd in the proverbial punchbowl is what talented team is Paxton going to be an 'ace' for potentially? This meh 2023 team? The potentially still meh (but with upside) 2024 team? Then on top of all that, you'd still be banking on him remaining uninjured for 2 straight seasons. That all sounds akin to a Ponzi Scheme, in my skeptical opinion 😅 I get it, I don't think you necessarily need to bank on him to remain completely uninjured for two straight seasons though. You just need to bank on his elbow not blowing up again. That being said I really just wanted to play a little devil's advocate to folks saying it's an absolute sure thing Paxton gets hurt so they'd best trade him now before that happens. We really don't know if he will or won't. The pessimist in me says this 2023 team isn't going anywhere and that I have a hard time envisioning where improvement really comes for the 2024 team with this crummy FA class and most if not all of the impact prospects at AA or below. The optimist in me says this 2023 is underperforming and for 2024 Devers will return to his previous level of being a fearsome bat, adding Story at SS, Casas continuing his development can help the lineup and a rotation with Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, Crawford and whatever they can get from Sale with maybe a big splash on a guy like Nola/Urias could be a really good rotation. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 13, 2023 9:52:01 GMT -5
I get it on Paxton, I don't outright disagree but what if he's now completely healthy from TJ and he's the pitcher that he's shown to be albeit in a SSS so far this season? This guys been a borderline ace for the Sox, especially if you remove his clunker vs the Angels. I get the whole fool me once methodology with Paxton but if his elbow can stay in tact most of his other injuries weren't things that should really crop up and prohibit him from having another healthy few seasons and a healthy Paxton as we've seen is a really good pitcher. If someone wants to give up a real haul for him then I'd probably take it but to me it needs to be a top 100 prospect + an intriguing lotto ticket or two depending on how far said top 100 guy is from his ML ETA. Otherwise, I might roll the dice on him with either a QO this offseason or an extension offer. You make some interesting points in the "Keep Him" camp. The biggest turd in the proverbial punchbowl is what talented team is Paxton going to be an 'ace' for potentially? This meh 2023 team? The potentially still meh (but with upside) 2024 team?Then on top of all that, you'd still be banking on him remaining uninjured for 2 straight seasons. That all sounds akin to a Ponzi Scheme, in my skeptical opinion 😅 Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale!
But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
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Post by bcsox on Jun 13, 2023 10:05:25 GMT -5
I am thinking the other way on the Angels. Playoff starved franchise. Two huge superstars. Whacko owner. Fringe of playoff race, they may be DESPERATE to prove to their enormous impending free agent, that they can win. Would they overpay at the deadline for maybe a healthy Paxton or Jansen? Do they have any high end talent on the farm? Is Adell still a thing or is he a post hype prospect?
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Post by sam01 on Jun 13, 2023 12:32:43 GMT -5
I am thinking the other way on the Angels. Playoff starved franchise. Two huge superstars. Whacko owner. Fringe of playoff race, they may be DESPERATE to prove to their enormous impending free agent, that they can win. Would they overpay at the deadline for maybe a healthy Paxton or Jansen? Do they have any high end talent on the farm? Is Adell still a thing or is he a post hype prospect? They currently have the worst farm system according to this and only one top 100 prospect. Adell isn't a guy worth buying high anymore. Maybe a throw in. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 12:45:00 GMT -5
I am thinking the other way on the Angels. Playoff starved franchise. Two huge superstars. Whacko owner. Fringe of playoff race, they may be DESPERATE to prove to their enormous impending free agent, that they can win. Would they overpay at the deadline for maybe a healthy Paxton or Jansen? Do they have any high end talent on the farm? Is Adell still a thing or is he a post hype prospect? They currently have the worst farm system according to this and only one top 100 prospect. Addel isn't a guy worth buying high anymore. Maybe a throw in. I know we're up in arms in Boston right now over the state of the Sox last year and so far this year but I gotta say thank goodness I'm not an Angels fan at least. At least the Sox have a top 10 farm and some semblance of a direction. What is the Angels direction? They probably should deal Ohtani whether they're a wild card team or not since he's leaving at the end of the year, they aren't winning a WS and they drastically need to infuse that farm with talent ASAP. I'd probably entertain dealing Trout as well if I was them. Crummy middling team with a bottom of the barrel farm and not really much else at the ML level for young talent as is. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 13, 2023 12:55:22 GMT -5
Even the worst farm system in baseball has the ability to pay too much for James Paxton. Their top prospect is a 20 year old catcher in AA that is blocked long term, there's a nice starting point.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Jun 13, 2023 12:56:27 GMT -5
You make some interesting points in the "Keep Him" camp. The biggest turd in the proverbial punchbowl is what talented team is Paxton going to be an 'ace' for potentially? This meh 2023 team? The potentially still meh (but with upside) 2024 team?Then on top of all that, you'd still be banking on him remaining uninjured for 2 straight seasons. That all sounds akin to a Ponzi Scheme, in my skeptical opinion 😅 Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale!
But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
Why are folks so hot on Nola? He'll be 31 this offseason and likely want an exorbitant amount of cash and years. Much prefer Yamamoto who will be 25, have a cheaper AAV and maybe even a higher ceiling than Nola. Also, I can see Houck getting knocked down to the bullpen by Drohan if he shoves the rest of the year at Worcester.
Also, agree on Paxton. Would be hard seeing someone give up a top 100 prospect for him. I've brought it up before, but if the Padres are seriously making a run at it this season, I'd like to snag Ha Seong Kim to have some security in the MIF until the end of next season.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 13, 2023 13:02:43 GMT -5
Personally I'm looking forward to 2024's rotation of Nola, Paxton, Bello, Whitlock, and Houck. We might even get 50 IP out of Sale!
But in regards to the possibility of their trading Paxton... I get the desire to trade him before his unknowable expiration date. But I imagine each healthy start increases his trade value. I suspect 6 healthy starts so far is not enough to convince other teams to part with a top 100 prospect, but maybe 12 or 15 starts would be. Then on top of that there is, of course, the chance that this team puts together another 8-game winning streak (they've done it before!) and jumps back in the wild card race, in which case can they can keep Paxton, and still cash out a bit with him by offering the QO at the end of the season.
Why are folks so hot on Nola? He'll be 31 this offseason and likely want an exorbitant amount of cash and years. Much prefer Yamamoto who will be 25, have a cheaper AAV and maybe even a higher ceiling than Nola. Also, I can see Houck getting knocked down to the bullpen by Drohan if he shoves the rest of the year at Worcester.
Also, agree on Paxton. Would be hard seeing someone give up a top 100 prospect for him. I've brought it up before, but if the Padres are seriously making a run at it this season, I'd like to snag Ha Seong Kim to have some security in the MIF until the end of next season.
Nola has been a workhorse type guy who takes the ball every 5th day. Since 2018 hes made 33, 34, 12 (shortened covid year), 32 and 32 starts. Which honestly could be a strike against him depending on how you want to look at it but Nola has proven to be a very good and very dependable MLB starter and this team could use another very good MLB starter since who couldn't. That being said I'm not banging the table for Nola necessarily but he would look good in the rotation the next 4-5 years I think. Give me Nola, Urias or I'm down to take a shot on Yamamoto as well though I don't know a lot about him so I'd have to do some research. To me it comes to down the Sox will probably have some money to spend this offseason and I don't see much for hitters worth spending the money on this offseason so give me one of the pitchers. That being said, I'm not holding my breath on any of them being added since I certainly don't see Henry and Co. agreeing to give out anything in line with what Price got which very well may be what Nola and Urias get. (I'm really not entertaining Ohtani actually being an option since I really don't see that happening). |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 13, 2023 13:08:04 GMT -5
Even the worst farm system in baseball has the ability to pay too much for James Paxton. Their top prospect is a 20 year old catcher in AA that is blocked long term, there's a nice starting point. For sure if that's all you're willing to do. I just took the comment of going all in as a separate thing. If for give up Jansen and Paxton for their top prospect and maybe another top 8 prospect. Is that helping them win a world series? OTOH, whack job owner as first commenter pointed out. I'll be following the Angels record wise as a baseball fan. Intrigued to see where this goes by August. |
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Post by manfred on Jun 13, 2023 13:24:43 GMT -5
I know we're up in arms in Boston right now over the state of the Sox last year and so far this year but I gotta say thank goodness I'm not an Angels fan at least. At least the Sox have a top 10 farm and some semblance of a direction. What is the Angels direction? They probably should deal Ohtani whether they're a wild card team or not since he's leaving at the end of the year, they aren't winning a WS and they drastically need to infuse that farm with talent ASAP. I'd probably entertain dealing Trout as well if I was them. Crummy middling team with a bottom of the barrel farm and not really much else at the ML level for young talent as is. The Angels are 1 game out of the WC. If I’m an Angels fan, I guess I might think get us in and a hot Trout/Ohtani might well be a buzzsaw. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2023 13:30:15 GMT -5
Angels are in a fascinating situation. Probably biggest situation to watch at the trade deadline. If they dropped to .500 or worse past the all-star break into the deadline, they have the best trade chip ever in Ohtani. It'll be interesting if Tampa Bay gets involved in the Ohtani bidding if that happens. This year might be the best year Tampa has at winning a title. While I think it'd be pretty stupid of the Angels to not entertain an Ohtani deal if they are out of it by the deadline, all I've read said they won't entertain it no matter what. They don't want to be the team that traded Ohtani even though like I said I think it'd be stupid. The Angels refusing to even consider trading Ohtani and then him leaving to go elsewhere in literally 5 seconds once free agency starts has felt like the endgame here ever since Arte Moreno changed his mind this winter and decided not to sell the team. |
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