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2023 Trade Deadline Thread
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 12, 2023 7:39:54 GMT -5
Turner, Martin, Duvall, Hernandez, Paxton, Pivetta, and Jansen should all be traded if possible, unless we go on some tear up to the all star break You want to trade both of our best relievers that are signed next year as well. Then next you will be mad we have the worst bullpen in baseball. That’s a downward spiral. You trade players you will have 0 intentions of resigning. I’m thinking long term I’m hoping their plan isn’t a horizon of the next 1.5 years with the hope of a wildcard spot? All those guys are gone in 18 months one way or another |
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Post by kingstephanos on Jun 12, 2023 7:56:53 GMT -5
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Post by greenmonster on Jun 12, 2023 8:03:41 GMT -5
Contending teams routinely overpay for bullpen pieces at the trade deadline. Especially back-end bullpen pieces. Is your concern that Kenley won't have any appeal or that Bloom won't be able to maximize the return? |
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 8:04:50 GMT -5
If some team would take Jansen and his full contract I'd probably be alright with trading him for a bag of balls depending on where they stand come end of July. I think they could better use the $16M elsewhere. Martin I would not trade since I find his contract a decent bargain for a good reliever.
That being said, this team is sitting at .500 so while some may think it's time to start selling off pieces I would maintain let's just see what happens the next month+ and reassess after the ASB.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 12, 2023 9:01:22 GMT -5
Not sure if this is Front Office Happy Talk or legit, but, in The Athletic O'Halloran says the Sox are looking to add pitching at the deadline. Excerpt: The trade deadline is seven weeks away, and the past month of disappointing baseball — injuries, losing streaks, and a fall to .500 — has, indeed, led the Red Sox to begin checking the market for potential moves.
But if they’re going to be sellers, it won’t be any time soon.
“No,” general manager Brian O’Halloran said. “We’re looking to improve our team...There have been some conversations,” O’Halloran said. “Obviously, they’ve led to some smaller deals, but you never know when you’re going to line up on something small or big, and obviously most of the big deals tend to get done closer to the deadline. But that doesn’t mean something couldn’t get done before then if it lines up.” |
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Post by ortiz on Jun 12, 2023 9:19:54 GMT -5
Turner, Martin, Duvall, Hernandez, Paxton, Pivetta, and Jansen should all be traded if possible, unless we go on some tear up to the all star break You want to trade both of our best relievers that are signed next year as well. Then next you will be mad we have the worst bullpen in baseball. That’s a downward spiral. You trade players you will have 0 intentions of resigning. Jansen will be 36 and Martin will be 38. SELL SELL SELL, before they implode and become worthless. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 12, 2023 9:24:08 GMT -5
Abraham is just speculating in that article, whatever.
O'Halloran sounds like a guy that has made some "Don't worry, we won't even entertain the idea of selling until X date" commitments to someone
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2023 9:31:55 GMT -5
For those of you who are readying to push the proverbial "sell" button, my question to you is: how many games back of a playoff spot would the Red Sox spot need to be circa late July where'd you feel comfortable going for it (or at least not blowing it up?) 1 game back? 2 games back? They are only 4 games back of a playoff spot currently. You can counter with, "It doesn't matter, they're not a real contender!" But if you get yourself the 6th seed/last wild card spot, you get to the play the winner of the worst division in baseball, the AL Central, to try to go to the ALDS. I'll take that any day of the week. The 3 teams they would need to currently overcome to make the playoffs include: - The Blue Jays, who we've already swept in 4 games, and who just sent their reigning Cy Young finalist to the minor leagues to pitch against 18 year olds
- The Yankees, who are routinely an Aaron Judge extended injury away from their offense completely falling apart
- The Angels - whose track record of making the playoffs with the two best players in the sport is... not great!
Ready to sell a month and a half from the deadline? Scared money don't make no money.
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Post by kingstephanos on Jun 12, 2023 9:35:46 GMT -5
Contending teams routinely overpay for bullpen pieces at the trade deadline. Especially back-end bullpen pieces. Is your concern that Kenley won't have any appeal or that Bloom won't be able to maximize the return? My concern errs more on the side of The FO not maximizing Kenley's value. Again, I've posted about this ad nauseum in other threads - but I prefer (just a guy on the internet) acquiring 1-2 B+/A- prospects over the smorgasbord approach where we obtain a handful of B-/C+ players in order to 're-stock' the farm system. While the Wink and Gambrell (sp) additions seem positive all around in the Beni trade, acquiring Franchy Cordero lessened their haul. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 12, 2023 9:40:03 GMT -5
For those of you who are readying to push the proverbial "sell" button, my question to you is: how many games back of a playoff spot would the Red Sox spot need to be circa late July where'd you feel comfortable going for it (or at least not blowing it up?) 1 game back? 2 games back? They are only 4 games back of a playoff spot currently. You can counter with, "It doesn't matter, they're not a real contender!" But if you get yourself the 6th seed/last wild card spot, you get to the play the winner of the worst division in baseball, the AL Central, to try to go to the ALDS. I'll take that any day of the week. The 3 teams they would need to currently overcome to make the playoffs include: - The Blue Jays, who we've already swept in 4 games, and who just sent their reigning Cy Young finalist to the minor leagues to pitch against 18 year olds
- The Yankees, who are routinely an Aaron Judge extended injury away from their offense completely falling apart
- The Angels - whose track record of making the playoffs with the two best players in the sport is... not great!
Ready to sell a month and a half from the deadline? Scared money don't make no money.
Ha, I had forgotten about this stupid little wrinkle in the wild card seeding. This year especially being the 3rd wild card is HUGELY more valuable than being even the first wild card. |
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 12, 2023 13:14:07 GMT -5
The other issue could be maximizing the potential return on fluctuating assets. I won't name names but there's always an injury away from returning nothing. I just think of the better shape we could have been in last year had we not wasted time thinking we could compete and ended up selling earlier.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 12, 2023 13:17:14 GMT -5
Besides, what would our biggest need be at the deadline to buy? And what players on bad teams would likely be available? I don't see Lucas Giolito being what turns us into a decent favored wild card team and wins us a playoff series. If Story and Sale were healthy then that would be another story.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 12, 2023 13:20:08 GMT -5
Besides, what would our biggest need be at the deadline to buy? And what players on bad teams would likely be available? I don't see Lucas Giolito being what turns us into a decent favored wild card team and wins us a playoff series. If Story and Sale were healthy then that would be another story. Barring an injury to a starting position player between now and July 31, they desperately need an actual shortstop if Story is not ready to go at the position by then. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 13:26:23 GMT -5
Besides, what would our biggest need be at the deadline to buy? And what players on bad teams would likely be available? I don't see Lucas Giolito being what turns us into a decent favored wild card team and wins us a playoff series. If Story and Sale were healthy then that would be another story. Barring an injury to a starting position player between now and July 31, they desperately need an actual shortstop if Story is not ready to go at the position by then. The idea to try and pry Tim Anderson away from the White Sox appeals to me. Perhaps can pry him and Giolito or Cease away, though Cease isn't coming cheaply. Anderson to me would be a perfect bridge to get the team to 2025 when hopefully Mayer is ready to roll. That would mean keeping Story at 2nd where I think he'd have plenty of value still so it's not like it'd hamstring the team. Anderson wouldn't be a straight rental which I'm not necessarily for adding unless the prospect cost is low. No idea what the cost would be for just an Anderson or an Anderson and Giolto/Cease package might be but just a thought anyway. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 12, 2023 14:35:51 GMT -5
Barring an injury to a starting position player between now and July 31, they desperately need an actual shortstop if Story is not ready to go at the position by then. The idea to try and pry Tim Anderson away from the White Sox appeals to me. Perhaps can pry him and Giolito or Cease away, though Cease isn't coming cheaply. Anderson to me would be a perfect bridge to get the team to 2025 when hopefully Mayer is ready to roll. That would mean keeping Story at 2nd where I think he'd have plenty of value still so it's not like it'd hamstring the team. Anderson wouldn't be a straight rental which I'm not necessarily for adding unless the prospect cost is low. No idea what the cost would be for just an Anderson or an Anderson and Giolto/Cease package might be but just a thought anyway. Wouldn't Anderson cost you Mayer and probably 2 other top 10 prospects? Probably a unrealistic scenario. The update to Mondesi to not being close was a huge blow to today. Now you're praying that Story comes back after all-star break. I hate the odds of passing 3 teams by the trade deadline. We were in the same position last year. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 14:43:23 GMT -5
The idea to try and pry Tim Anderson away from the White Sox appeals to me. Perhaps can pry him and Giolito or Cease away, though Cease isn't coming cheaply. Anderson to me would be a perfect bridge to get the team to 2025 when hopefully Mayer is ready to roll. That would mean keeping Story at 2nd where I think he'd have plenty of value still so it's not like it'd hamstring the team. Anderson wouldn't be a straight rental which I'm not necessarily for adding unless the prospect cost is low. No idea what the cost would be for just an Anderson or an Anderson and Giolto/Cease package might be but just a thought anyway. Probably a unrealistic scenario. The update to Mondesi to not being close was a huge blow to today. Now you're praying that Story comes back after all-star break. I hate the odds of passing 3 teams by the trade deadline. We were in the same position last year. He's having a down year, is only signed for one more season after this so no I don't see it costing anything close to that. I would think he could be had for something closer to a 10-15th ranked system guy and maybe a lotto ticket. If for some reason they insist on anything close to the package you are thinking then you simply hang up the phone. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 12, 2023 14:43:28 GMT -5
Angels are in a fascinating situation. Probably biggest situation to watch at the trade deadline. If they dropped to .500 or worse past the all-star break into the deadline, they have the best trade chip ever in Ohtani.
It'll be interesting if Tampa Bay gets involved in the Ohtani bidding if that happens. This year might be the best year Tampa has at winning a title.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 14:45:33 GMT -5
Angels are in a fascinating situation. Probably biggest situation to watch at the trade deadline. If they dropped to .500 or worse past the all-star break into the deadline, they have the best trade chip ever in Ohtani. It'll be interesting if Tampa Bay gets involved in the Ohtani bidding if that happens. This year might be the best year Tampa has at winning a title. While I think it'd be pretty stupid of the Angels to not entertain an Ohtani deal if they are out of it by the deadline, all I've read said they won't entertain it no matter what. They don't want to be the team that traded Ohtani even though like I said I think it'd be stupid. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 12, 2023 14:46:01 GMT -5
Wouldn't Anderson cost you Mayer and probably 2 other top 10 prospects?Probably a unrealistic scenario. The update to Mondesi to not being close was a huge blow to today. Now you're praying that Story comes back after all-star break. I hate the odds of passing 3 teams by the trade deadline. We were in the same position last year. He's having a down year, is only signed for one more season after this so no I don't see it costing anything close to that. I would think he could be had for something closer to a 10-15th ranked system guy and maybe a lotto ticket. If for some reason they insist on anything close to the package you are thinking then you simply hang up the phone. I don't think the White Sox would sell low on Anderson if they don't get the right value. I'm sure the rest of baseball will be all over Anderson and drive the price up. He's been a very good player for a very long time. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 12, 2023 14:46:30 GMT -5
Wouldn't Anderson cost you Mayer and probably 2 other top 10 prospects?
Probably a unrealistic scenario. The update to Mondesi to not being close was a huge blow to today. Now you're praying that Story comes back after all-star break. I hate the odds of passing 3 teams by the trade deadline. We were in the same position last year. I'm not well-versed in how these trades are valued, but for the salary and the year he's having I would hope it would be more of an Ottavino situation where you get the player plus a sweetner in exchange for taking him on. Not sure about 3 top 10 prospects but there's no way the White Sox would have to give up talent to move Anderson. He's having a bad season but he's coming off four straight years of being an ~4 WAR/full season guy, still projects better going forward, has a cheap team option for 2024, and would only cost the acquiring team like $5M in 2023. Honestly if they can't get something like a top 100 guy in exchange I think they'd be better off keeping him, hoping he turns it around and trying to move him in the off-season if he does. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 14:54:31 GMT -5
I'm not well-versed in how these trades are valued, but for the salary and the year he's having I would hope it would be more of an Ottavino situation where you get the player plus a sweetner in exchange for taking him on. Not sure about 3 top 10 prospects but there's no way the White Sox would have to give up talent to move Anderson. He's having a bad season but he's coming off four straight years of being an ~4 WAR/full season guy, still projects better going forward, has a cheap team option for 2024, and would only cost the acquiring team like $5M in 2023. Honestly if they can't get something like a top 100 guy in exchange I think they'd be better off keeping him, hoping he turns it around and trying to move him in the off-season if he does.Perhaps but if he doesn't rebound over the remainder of the season and only has one year left on his deal I don't see anyone giving up all that much for him in the offseason. It may or may not be the best time to try and flip him at the deadline convincing a team he can be a key part of two playoff runs instead of just one. Lots of variables though so who knows, he was just a thought I had. I frankly have no idea what he might actually bring back in a trade at the deadline. I've had a hard time actually getting a fair idea of player values at the deadline these last few seasons, it seems now more than ever teams hold their prospects as close to vest as they can. |
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Post by Guidas on Jun 12, 2023 16:05:12 GMT -5
Angels are in a fascinating situation. Probably biggest situation to watch at the trade deadline. If they dropped to .500 or worse past the all-star break into the deadline, they have the best trade chip ever in Ohtani. It'll be interesting if Tampa Bay gets involved in the Ohtani bidding if that happens. This year might be the best year Tampa has at winning a title. While I think it'd be pretty stupid of the Angels to not entertain an Ohtani deal if they are out of it by the deadline, all I've read said they won't entertain it no matter what. They don't want to be the team that traded Ohtani even though like I said I think it'd be stupid.Well, the are The Angels and Arte Moreno still owes them, so, yes, they'll be stupid. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 12, 2023 16:08:32 GMT -5
He's having a down year, is only signed for one more season after this so no I don't see it costing anything close to that. I would think he could be had for something closer to a 10-15th ranked system guy and maybe a lotto ticket. If for some reason they insist on anything close to the package you are thinking then you simply hang up the phone. I don't think the White Sox would sell low on Anderson if they don't get the right value. I'm sure the rest of baseball will be all over Anderson and drive the price up. He's been a very good player for a very long time. I personally wouldn't want less than two top 10 prospects for Verdugo. Who has the same amount of control as Anderson. Verdugo having a better year this year, while playing a less important position. Verdugo has way more durability issues than Anderson. The same valued players, but in different circumstances. Verdugo is the Sox best trade chip. They have Abreau in RF in Worcester waiting if they want to go that route. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 12, 2023 16:11:18 GMT -5
Not sure about 3 top 10 prospects but there's no way the White Sox would have to give up talent to move Anderson. He's having a bad season but he's coming off four straight years of being an ~4 WAR/full season guy, still projects better going forward, has a cheap team option for 2024, and would only cost the acquiring team like $5M in 2023. Honestly if they can't get something like a top 100 guy in exchange I think they'd be better off keeping him, hoping he turns it around and trying to move him in the off-season if he does. You're trading for him to play this season, so not sure how that becomes a secondary concern. .611 OPS and below average defense by measure of dWAR, I think we already have a couple of those. Besides, last year Baseball Reference had him at 1.3 WAR (about 2.6 full-year) and negative defensive value, so there was some regression prior to this year even if he wasn't this bad. I would speculate that whatever cost him 1/2 of last season is still an issue. I may be a little down on him relative to everyone else, but still a hard pass if it costs them anything beyond the ~15th prospect like ematz1423 suggested. Edit: as a note, this probably reads much more harshly than intended. I think it's a fun exercise to speculate, so read as if I had the best of intentions. Fangraphs had him at 2.0 fWAR over the 79 games he played last year. He's been injured most this year which is certainly a concern. Is his down year so far this year injury related or actual regression? Either way if the team is in a position to buy at the deadline whether Anderson or some other SS target would certainly be high on my list as I don't see story coming back and playing a viable SS this season even though I do like his chances next season at SS. |
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Post by sam01 on Jun 12, 2023 16:12:00 GMT -5
While I think it'd be pretty stupid of the Angels to not entertain an Ohtani deal if they are out of it by the deadline, all I've read said they won't entertain it no matter what. They don't want to be the team that traded Ohtani even though like I said I think it'd be stupid.Well, the are The Angels and Arte Moreno still owes them, so, yes, they'll be stupid. I just think that Ohtani has no shot of resigning with the Angels after 0 years of Ohtani experiencing the postseason with the Angels. If I was Ohtani, I would rather sign with the Dodgers if I want to stay in LA. Right now since they're in sneaking distance of a wild card, probably not trading him. One losing streak would make it interesting. There hasn't been a more talented player in a trade deadline ever. Ohtani might be one of the most talented baseball players in the history of the game. |
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