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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 14, 2024 20:13:29 GMT -5
Christian Moore just hit a 117 mph homer to complete the cycle in the 6th inning of this game.
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Post by jdb on Jun 14, 2024 20:14:12 GMT -5
Christian Moore just hit for the cycle. 440 ft.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 14, 2024 22:03:04 GMT -5
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Post by bentossaurus on Jun 15, 2024 0:43:25 GMT -5
If only he weren't a second baseman...
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 15, 2024 8:44:57 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Jun 16, 2024 10:49:10 GMT -5
FWIW - Listened to Keith Law's eval on the Rates and Barrels podcast. He said in retrospect, last year was the best draft he'd seen in his 25 years of doing draft evals, and this year is shaping up to be the worst. Main takeaway is, if you're a team that likes to get a first rounder at below slot and then spread money downstream, this is probably not the year to do it because of the lack of depth after the first few guys, and because it's a really, really bad year for High School talent.
He also said the pitching overall is very weak and really time to go after college position guys, esp in first 1-15 picks.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 16, 2024 10:52:53 GMT -5
Given where we’re at in the college season I don’t think I’m going to be moving too much on many prospects in this class. And given that my schedule is pretty hectic and I’ll be on vacation all draft week, I figured I may as well throw out my loose “draft board” for the year. I’m obviously no scout, but I do like putting my thoughts down for posterity (last year’s board here: forum.soxprospects.com/thread/6438/2023-mlb-draft?page=30). College guys are almost always guys I’ve watched live, if not watched a decent amount of, whereas high school guys are profiles I gravitate towards. To reiterate something from last year – I really value floor in the first round, and I’ve explained this in more depth before, but the Cliffnotes version is that the MLB Draft is such a crapshoot that I think getting a guy that can simply play at the major league level is a huge win, and typically going floor allows for savings to allocate for ceiling plays later on. With that said, my tiers: Almost certainly will not fall, but a guy can dream (for what it’s worth Teel topped this tier last year): 1. JJ Wetherholt, MIF, West Virginia – I doubt he falls for sure, but he seems to be settling in near the bottom of that top tier of college bats, so who knows if things get wonky with high school risers or slot cutting deals. Given the position questions and the injury taking some of his year, it wouldn’t be the most surprising thing in the world. That being said, I don’t care what position he plays, because the guy is simply going to hit. 2. Hagen Smith, LHP, Arkansas – Again I can’t see him falling, but pitching is weird. I don’t really think there’s a whole lot that needs to be said here, as it only takes an inning or so of watching him to realize just how premier the stuff is. College players that represent a good mix of ceiling and floor: 1. Braden Montgomery, OF, Texas A&M – He was originally going to be #2 in the above tier, but with the injury, who knows. Injury aside, I think the upside would still make this a fantastic pick at this spot, and I still expect him to go top 10 when it’s all said and done. The athleticism and the power potential, especially with his bat speed when that’s a metric that’s entering the mainstream, will be too enticing. I do think he’s more or less locked into a corner outfield spot, though. 2. Trey Yesavage, RHP, East Carolina – When I saw him pitch last year in Charlottesville, I was extremely impressed and fully expected his development into one of the best pitchers in college baseball, though I ultimately was on record as saying I thought he fit the mold of a late first round limited projection type. With the slight uptick in velocity and development of his splitter, though, I think he’d be a great pick at this spot. I still do think the lack of projection limits his upside, but I feel very good about him being a major league starter and think he could be a solid No. 3. 3. James Tibbs, OF, Florida State – He may very well be a left fielder, but I just feel so confident that this dude will rake that I don’t want to be the team to miss out on it if all of the above options gone. His swing is everything I love, compact with controlled violence. I also love that we’re talking about an elite corner outfield bat with a great approach – more walks than strikeouts is so 2007, he almost has more home runs than strikeouts. I feel like he’d be a decent amount under slot, and I think given how the draft is likely to shake out this is whole I’ll be calling for when the pick rolls around. 4. Vance Honeycutt, OF, North Carolina – I can’t quit this dude! Actually I was waffling about where I stood on him after my post yesterday about how I may be out on him, and that’s what inspired me to write this. I’m firmly in. I get that the swing and the miss stuff is a very, very real concern but he does everything else SO well. I have the UNC-WVU game on right now and in this one game alone he’s homered, had the WVU coach call him the fastest man in the world during his in-game interview (3.63 home to first), and hose a kid at first for a double play. In 5 innings!! I believe in aura, and I think he has it. I also think that he can fail to fully fix the swing and still be a full time player with how good the defense should be. Also wow he just took one of the worst swings I’ve ever seen… oh well, in for a penny in for a pound. 5. Jurrangelo Cijntje, Pitcher, Mississippi State – Aura!! This is partly motivated by me simply wanting to see how his development arc goes, but I both think the switch pitching thing can work long-term in strategic spurts while also thinking he’s good enough to have intriguing traits as a righty alone. I see two legitimate plus pitches from the right hand side and just enough control to think that he can start. I’m not going to pound the table for him to be the pick here no matter what, but I think me saying that I’d prefer him to Brecht might be a hot take. Slot neutral or overslot high schoolers (won’t have much to say on them, it’s all pretty straightforward and not a ton of hot takes here): 1. Bryce Rainier, SS, Harvard-Westlake HS (CA) – Texas commit 2. Cam Caminiti, LHP, Saguaro HS (AZ) – LSU commit 3. Konnor Griffin, SS, Jackson Prep (MS) – LSU commit College guys who’d represent real “cut a deal” type savings: 1. Carson Benge, OF, Oklahoma State – I like that he’s good at a little bit of everything, without a ton of obvious holes in his game. I feel like he’s a lesser version of Tibbs, in that you know you’re going to get a good hitter, just falling quite short of him in terms of how loud the offensive tools are. This might also be too close to his actual range for it to be a true cutting of a deal, but I think there are enough college players in a tier above him to where it counts. 2. Ryan Johnson, RHP, Dallas Baptist – I would be terrified every time he stepped onto the mound that he’d get hurt, because his delivery is so wackadoodle and violent. But man, multiple plus pitches with control? I am comfortable knowing that the risk could send him to a bullpen role. 3. Christian Moore, 2B, Tennessee – He’s been discussed a decent amount on this board already recently so I will just point out that the type of track record he has in the SEC is not very common, and I’m more willing to look at what the guy can do in this case as opposed to what we THINK he may not be able to do. 4. Jonathan Santucci, LHP, Duke – I’m still willing to buy into the fact that his development has been hampered by his injuries, and I am interested enough in the pitch mix and the fastball traits from the left side. Mikey Romero “++ slot savings” high schoolers: 1. Levi Sterling, RHP, Notre Dame HS (CA) – Texas commit 2. Dasan Hill, LHP, Grapevine HS (TX) – Dallas Baptist commit 3. JD Dix, SS, Whitefish Bay (WI) – Wake Forest commit Guys in that range I’m more or less out on (ranking here is by how “okay with it” I’d be should he be the pick): 1. Cam Smith, 3B, Florida State – In theory he should fit everything I like (good hit tool, good defense, production at a high level of competition), but there’s a weird thing with his swing path that bothers me and gives me pause long-term. Still, that’s a pretty niche thing, so that’s why he’s at the top of this list. 2. Seaver King, OF (?), Wake Forest – I really just don’t like the approach here and think that those concerns plus his size will make it difficult for him to impact the ball at the next level. 3. Dakota Jordan, OF, Mississippi State – Wayyyy too much swing and miss in the profile to where I’m a little shocked he’s considered a first round prospect. I do know Weatherholt has had a reoccurring hamstring injury this year costing him significant time. That may harm his stock with some teams and cause him to fall.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 16, 2024 11:24:13 GMT -5
FWIW - Listened to Keith Law's eval on the Rates and Barrels podcast. He said in retrospect, last year was the best draft he'd seen in his 25 years of doing draft evals, and this year is shaping up to be the worst. Main takeaway is, if you're a team that likes to get a first rounder at below slot and then spread money downstream, this is probably not the year to do it because of the lack of depth after the first few guys, and because it's a really, really bad year for High School talent. He also said the pitching overall is very weak and really time to go after college position guys, esp in first 1-15 picks. It’s also, in theory, a draft class that really favors the position the Sox are at from a pure savings perspective. Assuming the top 9 college guys go before 12, there’s going to be a pretty large pool of the next wave of collegiate that are likely to be pretty bunched up in teams’ eyes. So the Sox are going to be at the top of that tier where they can leverage the rest of that pool and go with whoever will accept the lowest slot amount of the players they feel confident in, should they choose to go that route. I may have already talked about this before lol
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Post by nonothing on Jun 16, 2024 22:10:16 GMT -5
If only he weren't a second baseman... But he is... unless he can play OF
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 17, 2024 7:46:09 GMT -5
If only he weren't a second baseman... But he is... unless he can play OF I think you may have missed the point/joke
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Post by oleary25 on Jun 17, 2024 8:19:27 GMT -5
Honestly I love Seaver King. Versatile in positions . Good compact swing. I also like Bryce Rainer a lot he may fall to us due to bonus demands. Yesavage would be amazing if he fell.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 17, 2024 9:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by chr31ter on Jun 17, 2024 10:12:34 GMT -5
I'm out on anyone who swings and misses as much as Honeycutt does.
Not at #12, at least.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 17, 2024 10:28:25 GMT -5
I'm out on anyone who swings and misses as much as Honeycutt does. Not at #12, at least. I legitimately can’t find a single college hitter who struck out this much as a junior and ended up being an above average offensive player in the MLB.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Jun 17, 2024 10:37:40 GMT -5
Maybe Honeycutt is willing to take a bit of deal to go 12?
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 17, 2024 10:51:34 GMT -5
I'm out on anyone who swings and misses as much as Honeycutt does. Not at #12, at least. I legitimately can’t find a single college hitter who struck out this much as a junior and ended up being an above average offensive player in the MLB. The thing I've told myself as someone who is floor-oriented is he doesn't actually have to be an above average offensive player to be an MLB player. This is a very very zoomed out comparison because there are obviously differences in their game, but if he's JBJ with a little less defense and a little more strikeouts but a lot more power, I'm personally not opposed to that as a mid-level outcome. That's obviously not the true floor, but there's also a galaxy worth of offensive upside beyond that. JBJ's wRC+ from 2016-2020: 118, 89, 90, 89, 118. Even with the strikeouts, with his power and a not-terrible approach I don't think it's outlandish to think that's an achievable five year stretch for Honeycutt.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 17, 2024 10:57:23 GMT -5
I legitimately can’t find a single college hitter who struck out this much as a junior and ended up being an above average offensive player in the MLB. The thing I've told myself as someone who is floor-oriented is he doesn't actually have to be an above average offensive player to be an MLB player. This is a very very zoomed out comparison because there are obviously differences in their game, but if he's JBJ with a little less defense and a little more strikeouts but a lot more power, I'm personally not opposed to that as a mid-level outcome. That's obviously not the true floor, but there's also a galaxy worth of offensive upside beyond that. JBJ's wRC+ from 2016-2020: 118, 89, 90, 89, 118. Even with the strikeouts, with his power and a not-terrible approach I don't think it's outlandish to think that's an achievable five year stretch for Honeycutt. That’s a fair view but also not what I want to be hoping for from the 12th pick in the draft.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 17, 2024 11:05:55 GMT -5
The thing I've told myself as someone who is floor-oriented is he doesn't actually have to be an above average offensive player to be an MLB player. This is a very very zoomed out comparison because there are obviously differences in their game, but if he's JBJ with a little less defense and a little more strikeouts but a lot more power, I'm personally not opposed to that as a mid-level outcome. That's obviously not the true floor, but there's also a galaxy worth of offensive upside beyond that. JBJ's wRC+ from 2016-2020: 118, 89, 90, 89, 118. Even with the strikeouts, with his power and a not-terrible approach I don't think it's outlandish to think that's an achievable five year stretch for Honeycutt. That’s a fair view but also not what I want to be hoping for from the 12th pick in the draft. Sure, that's not what you'd be hoping for, but you're taking that with the understanding that if there is a fix to be made there and he makes it, he has the physical ability to be a top 10 player in baseball, and that might be *underselling* it. College hitters with that level of raw talent don't make it to 12 every day, so while it comes with one very obvious and very deep red flag, I think the rest of the tools provide enough of a floor to where you can feel comfortable with the likelihood that he fixes that flaw, which is admittedly not very likely. If that's not your cup of tea that's fine, with the MLB Draft there's no right or wrong answer, but I at least think there's more to it than the hit tool, if that makes sense. Also I know this is EXTREMELY not how it works on multiple levels, but I'm doing this solely because I think it's fun as hell and I feel like people don't realize how impressive a lot of the seasons these collegiates are having right now are. If you took Vance Honeycutt's current numbers and extended that pace through 162 games, he'd have 71 home runs and 74 steals. Again that is not any kind of expectation, but it's just insane to put it in that framework and think about what he's doing, or what a guy like Charlie Condon is doing, or what Jac has done for two years in a row, even with lesser competition and metal bats.
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Post by ramireja on Jun 17, 2024 11:06:03 GMT -5
How about the infamous Jud Fabian as a reasonable comp to Honeycutt. Fabian had a K-rate of 28.7% his junior year before we drafted him. Of course he went back for his senior year and cut that down to 22.3%. Honeycutt at a 27.8% K-rate this year. Similar power numbers....Honeycutt with the edge on the basepaths. To be clear, I'd pick Honeycutt > Fabian but might be a good comp for the sake of seeing how the contact skills might translate at higher levels.
Fabian looked good at A-level ball before hitting a road bump in AA last year: 288 PAs, .176 BA, 37.5% K-rate....he did walk a lot though and hit for power so he still managed a .713 OPS despite the putrid batting average.
Fabian is repeating AA this year (age 23) and has cut the K-rate down to 28.6%. He's doing so at the sacrifice of walks though and has a slash line of .241/.316/.462, OPS: 778.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 17, 2024 11:06:19 GMT -5
Bradley had a 19.8% K rate his Junior Year at South Carolina. He was also the 40th pick in the draft. I'd be totally in at Honeycutt at #40.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 17, 2024 11:08:58 GMT -5
Bradley had a 19.8% K rate his Junior Year at South Carolina. He was also the 40th pick in the draft. I'd be totally in at Honeycutt at #40. He also had 4 more home runs in his entire college career than he did in his 2016 season in the bigs. If you're taking one data point to invalidate the comparison then I think you're missing the point of how loose it was meant to be.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 17, 2024 11:17:38 GMT -5
Bradley had a 19.8% K rate his Junior Year at South Carolina. He was also the 40th pick in the draft. I'd be totally in at Honeycutt at #40. He also had 4 more home runs in his entire college career than he did in his 2016 season in the bigs. If you're taking one data point to invalidate the comparison then I think you're missing the point of how loose it was meant to be. Pardon me? Your point was that Bradley hit enough in the pros to make the rest of his game play, right? My response is that Honeycutt's strikeout problems are much more pronounced than Bradley's ever were, so it's very risky to just assume that he'll hit as much as Bradley did, just adding in power and strikeouts. It's not "one data point," it's the concern that the flaw in Honeycutt's game will make it not play as he rises through the ranks, a flaw that Bradley didn't share at the same point in their development.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 17, 2024 11:26:11 GMT -5
He also had 4 more home runs in his entire college career than he did in his 2016 season in the bigs. If you're taking one data point to invalidate the comparison then I think you're missing the point of how loose it was meant to be. Pardon me? Your point was that Bradley hit enough in the pros to make the rest of his game play, right? My response is that Honeycutt's strikeout problems are much more pronounced than Bradley's ever were, so it's very risky to just assume that he'll hit as much as Bradley did, just adding in power and strikeouts. It's not "one data point," it's the concern that the flaw in Honeycutt's game will make it not play as he rises through the ranks, a flaw that Bradley didn't share at the same point in their development. It is exactly "one data point" because A) I wasn't comparing Honeycutt's strikeout issues with JBJ's strikeout issues (or lack thereof), merely making the point that there are enough tools there to play at the MLB level even if the strikeouts don't get truly fixed, and invoking JBJ was simply because it was easiest to build that theoretical model of what Honeycutt would look like in that situation if I used a player that everyone here is familiar with. B) Yes JBJ struck out less often in college than Honeycutt did but he also didn't impact the ball nearly as much as Honeycutt did either, so there's a trade-off there that is closer to my original point than anything you're interpreting here and gets ignored if you just look at K% from one year. I'm not just assuming he'll hit as much as JBJ did, there's obviously a world in which he strikes out 37% of the time (or pick whatever number you like that makes him a completely ineffective hitter at the big league level), but I am simply saying I think the bar for him to clear to get to the level of production that a player like JBJ had in the aggregate is not as high as some seem to think. If you disagree with that or aren't comfortable with the level of risk involved, that's a perfectly defensible opinion. But you mischaracterized what I believe the intent of my post was by, in my opinion, cherry-picking a single statistic.
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Post by seamus on Jun 17, 2024 11:44:43 GMT -5
I feel that the hit tool with batters is the same as control with pitchers. Yes, it's true that if it's their only real flaw and they could get it up to something like a 45, they'd be great... but it's really hard to go from a 30 (or worse) hit/control to fringe-average, and it's really hard to be MLB-level without being at least fringe-average with that tool. If you have to use a unicorn as a comp for what their realistically successful outcome looks like, that's probably a player to pass on.
I don't categorically hate the idea of gambling on somebody with such a spectacular 95th+ percentile outcome given how there's virtually no such thing as a "safe" MLB draft pick and there's not necessarily obviously better options at the 12th pick, but it's sort of like spending half of your international pool on one guy. There's a huge risk of it not panning out and you need to be comfortable with your process of identifying lower-priced (lower round) talent so that it is not a lost year.
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Post by jaffinator on Jun 17, 2024 16:24:54 GMT -5
The Honeycutt - Fabian comp is also a little off just in terms of how much better of a fielder Honeycutt is than Fabian. Fabian was a potential above average to maybe plus fielder I felt like - but Honeycutt is a potential plus-plus guy in CF (or nearly). In terms of college CF fielding I'd almost compare him to Enrique Bradfield Jr. last season though Bradfield was a probably a half grade better or so (in my inexact, untrained opinion).
Also, far be it from me to encourage the runaway hate train that Keith Law sometimes gets on this board (as it is more than occasionally undeserved), but I gotta roll my eyes at someone who says that last year was the best and this year is the worst maybe needs to chill out on the superlatives just a tad bit.
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