SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
|
Post by costpet on Jul 13, 2024 18:23:09 GMT -5
Betts was drafted as a 2b, not SS. If they took 20 pitchers, and 2 made the majors as starters, would that be considered a good draft year?
|
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Jul 13, 2024 18:29:11 GMT -5
Betts was drafted as a 2b, not SS. If they took 20 pitchers, and 2 made the majors as starters, would that be considered a good draft year? As STARTERS? Like legit MLB starters? Absolutely yes. |
|
|
|
Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 13, 2024 18:36:22 GMT -5
Not saying this is realistic or particularly prudent, but is there a more 'fun' pick out there than Jurrangelo Cijntje? Let Breslow/Bailey and the pitching gurus develop him ambidextrously. If it doesn't work, at least we got to watch the experiment. If it does, it is quite literally 2 pitchers for the price of 1.
|
|
|
|
Post by lostinnewjersey on Jul 13, 2024 18:39:13 GMT -5
Is 12 too early to take an upside swing on Brecht or one of the high school pitchers? Aside from Yesavage (who I would gladly take), it feels like most of the guys that could be available are high floor, low ceiling corner outfield types. I was wondering the same thing too, especially if he'd sign for under slot. Something like ~$4.5M and then they'd have an extra million for the rest of the draft. That would be a good strategy in a deep draft, which this is not. |
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,171 
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 13, 2024 18:59:19 GMT -5
Betts was drafted as a 2b, not SS. If they took 20 pitchers, and 2 made the majors as starters, would that be considered a good draft year? Your claim about Betts is not correct. As it says elsewhere on this site, Betts was drafted as a shortstop. He played shortstop first in the minors, badly, before being moved to 2b. www.soxprospects.com/dh2011.htm |
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,171
|
Post by jimoh on Jul 13, 2024 19:00:59 GMT -5
Not saying this is realistic or particularly prudent, but is there a more 'fun' pick out there than Jurrangelo Cijntje? Let Breslow/Bailey and the pitching gurus develop him ambidextrously. If it doesn't work, at least we got to watch the experiment. If it does, it is quite literally 2 pitchers for the price of 1. Cijntje is actually a better password than Jhostetc. |
|
|
|
Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 13, 2024 19:15:06 GMT -5
I want Yesavage. Would love to see what results our pitching program can get out of him.
|
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 13, 2024 20:44:48 GMT -5
Less than 24 to go my pref list is:
Braden Montgomery (there have been zero talk of him falling but… let me light a candle)
Konnor Griffin
Nick Kurtz
Trey Yesavage
Bryce Rainer
Now more realistic picks other than Yesavage:
Ryan Waldschmidt
Walker Janek
Christian Moore
Brody Brecht
James Tibbs
|
|
|
|
Post by thelpc on Jul 13, 2024 21:35:55 GMT -5
I think my preference would go as follows…
DREAM SCENARIO FALLERS:
Hagen Smith
Chase Burns
Braden Montgomery
Nick Kurtz
REALISTIC OPTIONS:
Preferred Pitcher - Trey Yesavage
Preferred Hitter - Cam Smith
SLEEPER PICK
Brody Brecht
|
|
|
|
Post by soxfaninnj on Jul 13, 2024 22:16:08 GMT -5
Anyone know what time number 12 picked last year?
|
|
|
|
Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 13, 2024 22:18:57 GMT -5
Anyone know what time number 12 picked last year? Around 8:05 pm - I'd expect the pick to be sometime in the 8:00 - 8:15 pm range. |
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Jul 13, 2024 22:39:50 GMT -5
I understand that, but most SS’s are speed guys with little power. The power guys play the corner positions 3b,1b, Lf, Rf. Plus in this draft we need to concentrate on pitching. Nah, most guys are SS when drafted. They're the best players on their high school or college teams and that's where they tend to play, SS, even if it becomes quickly obvious that's where they're not going to stay as they go up the minor league levels. Two quick examples comes to mind. Remember Michael Chavis? I believe he was drafted as a SS and by the time he got to the majors he was anything but a SS. Chipper Jones was drafted as a SS, but never really played SS in the majors as he was quickly shifted to 3b. You have the image of some lightweight guy with a good glove that cant hit his way out of a paper bag, but that's not what the Sox are targeting. They're going after guys who are the best on their teams and can play SS and hopefully stay there, but if not they move to other positions. Remember hulking OF-DH Gary Sheffield? He started off as a SS, even stayed at SS upon arriving to the majors, but nfamously didnt stay there long before being shifted to 3b and eventually RF. If a position player isn't a SS, CF, C or 1B in HS/college, it is likely they are not an MLB caliber defender. Some eventual 1Bs get drafted as 3Bs, and maybe a guy with a great arm plays RF in college. But I could care less if they selected 20 SS. And btw, we actually don't have a lot of MLB shortstops in our pipeline -- guys with the range and arm to do the job at the big league level. Most of our IFs are not MLB quality defenders at SS. So I don't buy that we should stay away from SS at all. What we have a heaping ton of are 2Bs. We don't need any more of those. Like, we could choose zero 2Bs over 20 rounds, and that would probably be great. |
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 16,642
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 13, 2024 22:47:02 GMT -5
Nah, most guys are SS when drafted. They're the best players on their high school or college teams and that's where they tend to play, SS, even if it becomes quickly obvious that's where they're not going to stay as they go up the minor league levels. Two quick examples comes to mind. Remember Michael Chavis? I believe he was drafted as a SS and by the time he got to the majors he was anything but a SS. Chipper Jones was drafted as a SS, but never really played SS in the majors as he was quickly shifted to 3b. You have the image of some lightweight guy with a good glove that cant hit his way out of a paper bag, but that's not what the Sox are targeting. They're going after guys who are the best on their teams and can play SS and hopefully stay there, but if not they move to other positions. Remember hulking OF-DH Gary Sheffield? He started off as a SS, even stayed at SS upon arriving to the majors, but nfamously didnt stay there long before being shifted to 3b and eventually RF. If a position player isn't a SS, CF, C or 1B in HS/college, it is likely they are not an MLB caliber defender. Some eventual 1Bs get drafted as 3Bs, and maybe a guy with a great arm plays RF in college. But I could care less if they selected 20 SS. And btw, we actually don't have a lot of MLB shortstops in our pipeline -- guys with the range and arm to do the job at the big league level. Most of our IFs are not MLB quality defenders at SS. So I don't buy that we should stay away from SS at all. What we have a heaping ton of are 2Bs. We don't need any more of those. Like, we could choose zero 2Bs over 20 rounds, and that would probably be great. Correct. I think Mathew Lugo was drafted as a SS, Chase Meidroth, too, if I'm not mistaken. Meidroth is playing primarily at 3b. Lugo is now playing corner OF. I think there's Mayer and likely Arias, as most likely to stick at SS. We'll see about Zannatello. Forgot about Mikey Romero, drafted as a SS and already stationed at 2b. And Pedroia was drafted as a SS but had moved to 2b in AAA. |
|
|
|
Post by keninten on Jul 13, 2024 23:12:59 GMT -5
Nah, most guys are SS when drafted. They're the best players on their high school or college teams and that's where they tend to play, SS, even if it becomes quickly obvious that's where they're not going to stay as they go up the minor league levels. Two quick examples comes to mind. Remember Michael Chavis? I believe he was drafted as a SS and by the time he got to the majors he was anything but a SS. Chipper Jones was drafted as a SS, but never really played SS in the majors as he was quickly shifted to 3b. You have the image of some lightweight guy with a good glove that cant hit his way out of a paper bag, but that's not what the Sox are targeting. They're going after guys who are the best on their teams and can play SS and hopefully stay there, but if not they move to other positions. Remember hulking OF-DH Gary Sheffield? He started off as a SS, even stayed at SS upon arriving to the majors, but nfamously didnt stay there long before being shifted to 3b and eventually RF. If a position player isn't a SS, CF, C or 1B in HS/college, it is likely they are not an MLB caliber defender. Some eventual 1Bs get drafted as 3Bs, and maybe a guy with a great arm plays RF in college. But I could care less if they selected 20 SS. And btw, we actually don't have a lot of MLB shortstops in our pipeline -- guys with the range and arm to do the job at the big league level. Most of our IFs are not MLB quality defenders at SS. So I don't buy that we should stay away from SS at all. What we have a heaping ton of are 2Bs. We don't need any more of those. Like, we could choose zero 2Bs over 20 rounds, and that would probably be great. Still hoping for Mikey Romero. Looks like he might just be a utility player that can play a decent SS. |
|
|
|
Post by johnsilver52 on Jul 14, 2024 0:09:36 GMT -5
Betts was drafted as a 2b, not SS. If they took 20 pitchers, and 2 made the majors as starters, would that be considered a good draft year? As STARTERS? Like legit MLB starters? Absolutely yes. 2017 draft. Hits on Houck and Crawford. High end talents Alex Scherff and Zach Schellenger, plus wild card Jake Thompson ended up as misses. 1st and only time in years Boston spent a considerable amount of draft resources (and picks) on really talented pitching, rather than mostly middle infielders. Good thing right now isn't it. This organization spent a decade and a half drafting "big bodied" junk ballers, then when those failed. mostly forgot how to draft and develop any.. Except for 2017. Few single examples of course. lester early on. lester, bucholz, Kopech. They need to split things and work on positional and pitching, draft tudor/hurst/clemens types again and now act like they have forgotten to. |
|
|
|
Post by nonothing on Jul 14, 2024 9:00:27 GMT -5
If a position player isn't a SS, CF, C or 1B in HS/college, it is likely they are not an MLB caliber defender. Some eventual 1Bs get drafted as 3Bs, and maybe a guy with a great arm plays RF in college. But I could care less if they selected 20 SS. And btw, we actually don't have a lot of MLB shortstops in our pipeline -- guys with the range and arm to do the job at the big league level. Most of our IFs are not MLB quality defenders at SS. So I don't buy that we should stay away from SS at all. What we have a heaping ton of are 2Bs. We don't need any more of those. Like, we could choose zero 2Bs over 20 rounds, and that would probably be great. Correct. I think Mathew Lugo was drafted as a SS, Chase Meidroth, too, if I'm not mistaken. Meidroth is playing primarily at 3b. Lugo is now playing corner OF. I think there's Mayer and likely Arias, as most likely to stick at SS. We'll see about Zannatello. Forgot about Mikey Romero, drafted as a SS and already stationed at 2b. And Pedroia was drafted as a SS but had moved to 2b in AAA. Exactly, and not everyone thinks Mayer is a SS long term, though I suspect like Bogaerts was very playable there for years, he will be as well. Still, I am not sure they have a Trevor Story caliber defender at SS in their system. And that is why I am hoping Griffin falls to them. Maybe it takes years, but the difference a high quality middle infield makes for pitchers cannot be overstated. If we are lucky enough to have Mayer spend several years at SS and then move elsewhere because we have an even better defender... well that's a problem I would love to have. I would also love to see Story back at SS next year. But the funny thing about baseball is, you often need more options than you might like. 162 games is a lot of games for people to get injuries over, whether serious or just tweaks. It takes a village to win, so drafting a deep bench at SS would be great actually, along with some pitching. |
|
|
|
Post by chr31ter on Jul 14, 2024 10:12:04 GMT -5
I know that MLB teams usually don't think this way, but...
I keep seeing Christian Moore mocked to the Red Sox at #12, and on one hand, I get it. Best player available.
On the other hand, are they really going to use the 12th pick in the draft to add another right-handed 2B/LF between the ages of 21 and 23 to the mix to go along with Grissom, Yorke, and Campbell? Especially when Jarren Duran's best long-term positional fit is probably LF, and Duran basically plays every day?
If the Sox think Moore is head and shoulders above anyone else on the board, then go ahead and take him.
If they think it's close between Moore and someone like Cam Smith or Trey Yesavage? I think I'd pass on Moore.
|
|
|
|
Post by tjb21 on Jul 14, 2024 10:55:59 GMT -5
I know that MLB teams usually don't think this way, but... I keep seeing Christian Moore mocked to the Red Sox at #12, and on one hand, I get it. Best player available. On the other hand, are they really going to use the 12th pick in the draft to add another right-handed 2B/LF between the ages of 21 and 23 to the mix to go along with Grissom, Yorke, and Campbell? Especially when Jarren Duran's best long-term positional fit is probably LF, and Duran basically plays every day? If the Sox think Moore is head and shoulders above anyone else on the board, then go ahead and take him. If they think it's close between Moore and someone like Cam Smith or Trey Yesavage? I think I'd pass on Moore. It’s an interesting thought exercise. I’m in the camp of being ok passing on Moore as well. Nice player though. |
|
|
|
Post by bojacksoxfan on Jul 14, 2024 11:18:56 GMT -5
I know that MLB teams usually don't think this way, but... I keep seeing Christian Moore mocked to the Red Sox at #12, and on one hand, I get it. Best player available. On the other hand, are they really going to use the 12th pick in the draft to add another right-handed 2B/LF between the ages of 21 and 23 to the mix to go along with Grissom, Yorke, and Campbell? Especially when Jarren Duran's best long-term positional fit is probably LF, and Duran basically plays every day? If the Sox think Moore is head and shoulders above anyone else on the board, then go ahead and take him. If they think it's close between Moore and someone like Cam Smith or Trey Yesavage? I think I'd pass on Moore. One thing that should be clear from the various trade threads is that this team desperately needs more prospects in the #50-125 range for trade ammunition. Nobody wants to even consider trading the guys above that. Nobody wants to trade guys below that with tools (your Bleis, Cespedes types). As a result you end up with people trying to package modestly valuable guys like Yorke or justifying sitting out trade markets because the cost is too expensive. If they could draft five 21-23 yr old RHH 2B some of whom might eventually be in that sweet spot of having trade value, but not seeming irreplaceable, that would be an awesome draft. |
|
|
|
Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 14, 2024 11:52:02 GMT -5
I know that MLB teams usually don't think this way, but... I keep seeing Christian Moore mocked to the Red Sox at #12, and on one hand, I get it. Best player available. On the other hand, are they really going to use the 12th pick in the draft to add another right-handed 2B/LF between the ages of 21 and 23 to the mix to go along with Grissom, Yorke, and Campbell? Especially when Jarren Duran's best long-term positional fit is probably LF, and Duran basically plays every day? If the Sox think Moore is head and shoulders above anyone else on the board, then go ahead and take him. If they think it's close between Moore and someone like Cam Smith or Trey Yesavage? I think I'd pass on Moore. One thing that should be clear from the various trade threads is that this team desperately needs more prospects in the #50-125 range for trade ammunition. Nobody wants to even consider trading the guys above that. Nobody wants to trade guys below that with tools (your Bleis, Cespedes types). As a result you end up with people trying to package modestly valuable guys like Yorke or justifying sitting out trade markets because the cost is too expensive. If they could draft five 21-23 yr old RHH 2B some of whom might eventually be in that sweet spot of having trade value, but not seeming irreplaceable, that would be an awesome draft. College players from major conferences are also moving thru the ladder faster than ever. A guy like Moore that tore up the SEC is likely to be ready for 2026. If you are looking to deal with a true cellar-dweller franchise (ChiSox, Miami, Rockies, etc.), they won't be looking for 2025 roi, but '26 and beyond. That said, if Yesavage is available and graded similarly to other BPA's, I sure hope they address the positional need simultaneously. |
|
|
|
Post by jbuttah on Jul 14, 2024 11:54:14 GMT -5
There is no doubt in my mind that if any of the top 3 college arms are available at #12, that's who the Sox are taking, unless they do a go under first round to go over later kind of thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by outofleftfield on Jul 14, 2024 12:52:08 GMT -5
Not saying this is realistic or particularly prudent, but is there a more 'fun' pick out there than Jurrangelo Cijntje? Let Breslow/Bailey and the pitching gurus develop him ambidextrously. If it doesn't work, at least we got to watch the experiment. If it does, it is quite literally 2 pitchers for the price of 1. I don't have him ranked in my top 12, but if he agreed to an underslot deal at the 12 slot, I'd be pretty happy. I don't think the switch pitching thing works out (I'd rather just develop him from the right side, where I think he can end up as a mid-rotation starter with work - albeit as a relatively undersized one). I do like what I saw from him from the right side this year at Mississippi State, enough that I'd be comfortable with him as our first rounder. |
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 14, 2024 20:58:19 GMT -5
Less than 24 to go my pref list is: Braden Montgomery (there has been zero talk of him falling but… let me light a candle) I’ll give credit to the candle. |
|
|
|
Post by bentossaurus on Jul 14, 2024 21:10:53 GMT -5
I am very late to the party here, but got tangled with the EURO final and eventual celebrations.
I've been trying to finalise a Sox draft board for a few weeks now, and even though I didn't manage to give it the last touches and cull/crosscheck with the latest projections, I'm relatively pleased. Think the talent at the top of the draft is definitely on hitters, but the depth lies on pitchers, and particularly HS pitchers.
If I could pick a guy to fall it would be:
JJ Wetherholt SS West Virginia #7 Cardinals
At pick #12 I would be happy with:
Brody Brecht RHP Iowa #38 Rockies
Konnor Griffin SS/OF Florida HS #9 Pirates
Braden Montgomery OF Texas A&M #12 Red Sox That's a bingo!
Christian Moore 2B Tennessee #8 Angels
Bryce Rainer SS California HS #11 Tigers
If they're still there at #50 I'd pick:
Carson Benge OF Oklahoma State #19 Mets
Jurrangelo Cijntje SP Mississippi State #15 Mariners
Theo Gillen MI Texas HS #18 Rays
Luke Holman RHP LSU #71 Reds
Walker Janek C Sam Houston #28 Astros
Ryan Johnson RHP Dallas Baptist #74 Angels
Jonathan Santucci LHP Duke #46 Mets
William Schmidt RHP Louisiana HS Not drafted
Ryan Sloan RHP Illinois HS #55 Mariners
Ryan Waldschmidt OF Kentucky #31 Diamondbacks
My day 2 targets would be:
Myles Bailey 3B Florida HS #589 White Sox
Charlie Bates SS California HS Not drafted
Tyler Bell SS Illinois HS #66 Rays
Griffin Burkholder Virginia HS #63 Phillies
Conrad Cason RHP/SS Georgia HS #237 Red Sox
Chris Cortez RHP Texas A&M #45 Angels
Bryce Cunningham RHP Vanderbilt #53 Yankees
Kyle DeBarge SS Louisiana-Lafayette #33 Twins
Khadiw Diaw C Loyola Marymount #96 Twins
Braylon Doughty RHP California HS #36 Guardians
Zach Duenas RHP Western Kentucky Not drafted
Nathan Fleweling C Alberta HS #94 Rays
Connor Foley RHP Indiana #164 Diamondbacks
Ryan Forcucci RHP UC San Diego #101 Astros
Anderson French C Pennsylvania HS Not drafted
Connor Gatwood RHP Alabama HS #562 Angels
David Hagaman RHP West Virginia #133 Angels
Owen Hall RHP Oklahoma HS #49 Tigers
Chase Harlan 3B Pennsylvania HS #98 Dodgers
Dasan Hill LHP Texas HS #69 Twins
Thatcher Hurd RHP LSU #89 Yankees
Jeremiah Jenkins 1B Maine #418 Giants
Jacob Jenkins-Cowart OF East Carolina #244 Marlins
Gage Jump LHP LSU #73 A's
Johnnny King LHP Florida HS #95 Blue Jays
Kellon Lindsey SS Florida HS #23 Dodgers
Aiden May RHP Oregon State #70 Marlins
Kash Mayfield LHP Oklahoma HS #25 Padres
Brock Moore RHP Oregon (Senior) #213 Mariners
Marcus Morgan RHP Iowa #282 Phillies
Tyson Neighbors RHP Kansas #118 Padres
Joey Oakie RHP Iowa HS #84 Guardians
Ryan Prager LHP Texas A&M #81 Angels
Eddie Rynders 3B Wisconsin HS #112 Pirates
Mason Russell LHP Arizona HS #599 Reds
Grant Shepardson RHP Colorado HS #155 Marlins
David Shields LHP Virginia HS #41 Royals
Levi Sterling RHP California HS #37 Pirates
Joseph Sullivan OF South Alabama #223 Astros
Jared Thomas 1B Texas #42 Rockies
Payton Tolle LHP TCU #50 Red Sox
Dax Whitney RHP Idaho HS Not drafted
Carson Wiggins RHP Oklahoma HS Not drafted
At their projected slots I would certainly pass on:
Kaelen Culpepper SS Kansas State
Vance Honeycutt OF North Carolina
Seaver King 3B Wake Forest
Nick Kurtz 1B Wake Forest
Malcolm Moore C Stanford
Wyatt Sanford SS Texas HS
Cam Smith 3B Florida State
James Tibbs III OF Florida State
Tommy White 1B LSU
|
|
|
|
Post by soxin8 on Jul 14, 2024 21:33:46 GMT -5
If the Sox do wind up taking a bat in the first round, I think that will increase the interest in looking at college pitching shortly after that. While I was enjoying the Sox knocking Grayson Rodriguez around last night, I decided to look at Law's and Joe Doyle's top prospects list for arms. Keith had 13 college pitchers in his top 100 and Joe had 16. I thought I would try to put that together here for possible second and third round picks. Mike always has a great draft preview here. Maybe this will help start the process. I'll write the player followed be giving Law's and Doyle's (future stars series) rankings. I am adding the mlb.com rankings that vermont was kind enough to give. Payton Tolle TCU 44 41 86 Jonathan Santucci Duke 46 34 34 Ben Hess AL 54 58 45 Luke Holman LSU 60 49 48 Gage Jump LSU 61 106 60 Bryce Cunningham Vandy 62 59 44 Josh Hartle Wake 66 92 62 Carter Holton Vandy 74 52 61 Drew Beam TN 76 48 63 Ryan Johnson Dallas B 77 40 43 Sam Stuhr U of Prt 89 199 183 Michael Massey Duke 90 80 107 Matt Ager UCSB 93 164 106 These 6 are only in Joe Doyle's top 100 Jurrangelo Cijntje MSST 44 31 (He was 15 for Keith) Ryan Prager A+M 69 59 Ryan Forcucci UCSD 71 85 Aiden May ORST 75 82 Gage Ziehl Miami 85 88 Thatcher Hurd LSU 99 112 Only listed in mlb's top 100 Tristan Smith Clemson 68 Tyson Neighbors K ST 78 Kal Stephen MSST 87 Daniel Eagan Presby 89 For the people who watch college, please feel free to comment on this group (I'm looking at you thegoodthebadthesox). I spaced it better when it was written. Maybe a mod can help make it more readable? I need to make a correction. The number of players in the top 100 I listed for Keith and Joe excluded those who would likely go in the first round. Keith had 5 more college arms going in the first including Cijntje at 15. I don't have a BA subscription to add their rankings. If a mod would like to do that I think it would be a nice addition. bumped for Tolle |
|
|
