|
Post by bojacksoxfan on Aug 2, 2023 20:11:48 GMT -5
Bloom has made 3 significant investments in position players - Story, Yoshida and Devers. One was a bad defensive SS when he was signed, but you can call him a good defensive player who was chronically injured if you like. The other two are bad defensive players. You can stack up all of the small one year deals to the Mondesis and JBJs on one side of the scale, but if I put 400+M worth of contracts to bad defensive players on the other side of the scale I think we both know what side of the scale will hit bottom. Bloom has guaranteed more money to bad defensive players than to good defensive players is a fact. The Sox defense under Bloom has generally been bad, that is also fact. What that says about how he much or little he values defense is open to interpretation, but it would be nice if our opinions included those facts as a starting point. He wasn’t a bad defensive SS when he signed though, even with the reduced arm. The point that he doesn’t focus enough on D can probably be made without it. He also isn’t chronically injured, the injury has been healed. He had surgery for it. A chronic injury is one that does not go away. Great username btw I was just going by OAA at BaseballSavant - -7 in 2021 with significantly reduced arm strength. At the time he was signed he appeared to be a formerly good defensive player coming off a bad year with an injured arm. An arm that is problematic until it requires significant surgery may not qualify as a chronic injury, I'll grant that may not be the right word, but it's in the ballpark. But like I said, even counting Story as a good defensive player at the time he was signed only gets you so far. I've actually been a very long time reader and one day the username bojacksoxfan popped into my head and I decided it was too good not to use.
|
|
|
Post by bojacksoxfan on Aug 2, 2023 20:22:58 GMT -5
Bloom has made 3 significant investments in position players - Story, Yoshida and Devers. One was a bad defensive SS when he was signed, but you can call him a good defensive player who was chronically injured if you like. The other two are bad defensive players. You can stack up all of the small one year deals to the Mondesis and JBJs on one side of the scale, but if I put 400+M worth of contracts to bad defensive players on the other side of the scale I think we both know what side of the scale will hit bottom. Bloom has guaranteed more money to bad defensive players than to good defensive players is a fact. The Sox defense under Bloom has generally been bad, that is also fact. What that says about how he much or little he values defense is open to interpretation, but it would be nice if our opinions included those facts as a starting point. You can't point to a *really good* signing like Yoshida and say "see? he doesn't care about defense." It's like saying the Red Sox signing and re-signing David Ortiz meant that they didn't care about defense. No, he's just a really good hitter. Same point goes for Devers. As for Story being a "bad defensive player," I... am not even sure what to say really. Story is a good defensive player. Do I really need to cite my sources on that?
My point is not that Bloom only values defense, which would be stupid. It's also not that the defense hasn't been bad under him. The point is just that he constructs the roster with defense as well as offense in mind. Which seems obvious enough that I wouldn't have thought it needed an argument.
What made him a good defensive SS after he hurt his arm in 2021 when he was -7 OAA? But I didn't point to the Yoshida contract and say he doesn't care about defense. If I did, you would quote me doing so. Please don't claim I said things that I did not say. I don't find if conducive to good discussions. I said he has made large commitments to bad defensive players and his team's defense has been bad. I said that after you said that he clearly cares about defense and sited Story and bunch of small contracts as if that was a strong argument. Imo, it is not. Essentially, you have said here's a long list of good defenders so that proves that Bloom "clearly cares about defense". But if those guys mostly signed cheap contracts and the bad defenders signed big contracts what does it matter how long your list is?
|
|
|
Post by Legion of Bloom on Aug 2, 2023 21:33:44 GMT -5
Tonight’s game is on Cora and Cora only.
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on Aug 2, 2023 23:27:34 GMT -5
Sounds like Story is asking for more games at AAA. Terrific.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on Aug 3, 2023 1:45:30 GMT -5
Sounds like Story is asking for more games at AAA. Terrific. I mean, would you rather him not be honest and play like shit? Or let him get the ABs he needs so he comes back with vengeance?
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,874
|
Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2023 7:30:41 GMT -5
Sounds like Story is asking for more games at AAA. Terrific. I mean, would you rather him not be honest and play like shit? Or let him get the ABs he needs so he comes back with vengeance? Not a warm and fuzzy feeling when your notoriously slow starting SS is asking for a few more games on a rehab stint. If he feels like he isn’t ready, is 3 games really going to vault him back to normal? But considering the lack of production the Sox get at short, there isn’t much to lose.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,149
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 7:33:54 GMT -5
I mean, would you rather him not be honest and play like shit? Or let him get the ABs he needs so he comes back with vengeance? Not a warm and fuzzy feeling when your notoriously slow starting SS is asking for a few more games on a rehab stint. If he feels like he isn’t ready, is 3 games really going to vault him back to normal? But considering the lack of production the Sox get at short, there isn’t much to lose. He’s had 29 AB’s in his rehab. He would probably get 50+ in ST. He’s hitting the ball with power but he’s still striking out too much, I imagine he’s just trying to get his timing back. People need to understand he didn’t have a ST, the last time he played baseball was last season.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,874
|
Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2023 7:41:21 GMT -5
Not a warm and fuzzy feeling when your notoriously slow starting SS is asking for a few more games on a rehab stint. If he feels like he isn’t ready, is 3 games really going to vault him back to normal? But considering the lack of production the Sox get at short, there isn’t much to lose. He’s had 29 AB’s in his rehab. He would probably get 50+ in ST. He’s hitting the ball with power but he’s still striking out too much, I imagine he’s just trying to get his timing back. People need to understand he didn’t have a ST, the last time he played baseball was last season. To make it clear I totally get that, I’m just more worried about his performance upon returning than I was before now that he’s asked for this himself.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 5,366
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 3, 2023 7:45:29 GMT -5
Did he mention why he wanted extra time in his rehab? To me, if it's for hitting timing then I'd say no reason for concern at all. If it's related to his arm and fielding then it would be cause for concern.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,149
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 7:51:13 GMT -5
Did he mention why he wanted extra time in his rehab? To me, if it's for hitting timing then I'd say no reason for concern at all. If it's related to his arm and fielding then it would be cause for concern. Every report I’ve seen on his glove has been a positive one, so that’s nice
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2023 7:51:57 GMT -5
If he's feeling healthy then it does not really make sense for him to stay down there. What, he's worse than Yu Chang today, but would be better than Yu Chang with three more practice games?
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,149
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 7:56:06 GMT -5
If he's feeling healthy then it does not really make sense for him to stay down there. What, he's worse than Yu Chang today, but would be better than Yu Chang with three more practice games? Maybe he doesn’t want to suck when he comes back because he knows this fan base is obnoxious and will immediately start crying about his performance relative to his contract
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,874
|
Post by nomar on Aug 3, 2023 8:04:28 GMT -5
Lmfao I just realized the Sox are -46 OOA and the second worst is -16
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2023 8:08:34 GMT -5
I guess my issue with Story staying down is that they are ~20% playoff odds on BR right now. There could be a point when reinforcements don’t matter. This is a make-or-break stretch. They are playing the Jays, for cryin’ out loud! This is the team they need to catch! I’d like to see guys want to be there.
|
|
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,149
Member is Online
|
Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 8:12:23 GMT -5
I want to see guys know when they’re not ready yet to positively impact the team in a big spot
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2023 8:23:31 GMT -5
I want to see guys know when they’re not ready yet to positively impact the team in a big spot There is really no such thing as impact once the big spot has passed. If Story won’t be ready until later, then he is not the “deadline get” people assumed. They must win this weekend series.
|
|
|
Post by greenmonster on Aug 3, 2023 8:33:53 GMT -5
A few weeks ago, wasn't Story campaigning to come back as DH? What changed?? and yes, I don't want him playing if he is NOT ready but did we seriously just learn he wasn't ready a day after the trade deadline? The post trade deadline spin regarding all the great additions that are ready to return from injury seems to have been pretty optimistic. Doesn't sound like any of them will be with the team any time soon. Certainly not for the BlueJay series which is shaping up to be one of the bigger series of the season. nesn.com/2023/08/red-sox-reportedly-exploring-creative-options-with-chris-sale/
|
|
|
Post by notstarboard on Aug 3, 2023 9:11:59 GMT -5
A few weeks ago, wasn't Story campaigning to come back as DH? What changed?? and yes, I don't want him playing if he is NOT ready but did we seriously just learn he wasn't ready a day after the trade deadline? The post trade deadline spin regarding all the great additions that are ready to return from injury seems to have been pretty optimistic. Doesn't sound like any of them will be with the team any time soon. Certainly not for the BlueJay series which is shaping up to be one of the bigger series of the season. nesn.com/2023/08/red-sox-reportedly-exploring-creative-options-with-chris-sale/Mid-August isn't soon? That's sooner than I was expecting all of them to be back. And for all I know Story wants like 20 more ABs and will be back within a week. The team may well not want him back as a DH either; I know I wouldn't. What is there even to complain about here?
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 9:19:15 GMT -5
Sounds like Story is asking for more games at AAA. Terrific. I mean, would you rather him not be honest and play like shit? Or let him get the ABs he needs so he comes back with vengeance? Wait! Trevor Story has the CAPACITY to come back with a vengeance? If so, that’s worth waiting a few more days. No rush.
|
|
|
Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 9:25:34 GMT -5
A few weeks ago, wasn't Story campaigning to come back as DH? What changed?? and yes, I don't want him playing if he is NOT ready but did we seriously just learn he wasn't ready a day after the trade deadline? The post trade deadline spin regarding all the great additions that are ready to return from injury seems to have been pretty optimistic. Doesn't sound like any of them will be with the team any time soon. Certainly not for the BlueJay series which is shaping up to be one of the bigger series of the season. nesn.com/2023/08/red-sox-reportedly-exploring-creative-options-with-chris-sale/Mid-August isn't soon? That's sooner than I was expecting all of them to be back. And for all I know Story wants like 20 more ABs and will be back within a week. The team may well not want him back as a DH either; I know I wouldn't. What is there even to complain about here? Mid-August is basically 10 days away. And I don’t think Whitlock or Houck have even discussed rehab assignments yet. You have to figure they need 2-3 appearances before they come back? I’m not sure we will see them that soon. I know Sale just threw a couple innings. His next appearance should be in Fenway. He only has so many bullets left. No need to waste them.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 3, 2023 9:38:22 GMT -5
If he's feeling healthy then it does not really make sense for him to stay down there. What, he's worse than Yu Chang today, but would be better than Yu Chang with three more practice games? I guess two thoughts here: 1) Agreed on the Red Sox side, they should push to bring him up once they're confident he's physically ready. 2) On Story's end, I think it's a pretty human reaction. He might need literally one game where he feels like he sees the ball well at the plate and he'll feel good to go. Add: To those saying he was campaigning to come back as DH.. yeah and then he got into games and didn't do quite as well as he thought he would, he can't change his mind?
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 3, 2023 9:40:10 GMT -5
I want to see guys know when they’re not ready yet to positively impact the team in a big spot There is really no such thing as impact once the big spot has passed. If Story won’t be ready until later, then he is not the “deadline get” people assumed. They must win this weekend series. This is what people said about Schwarber in 2021 too (and the team stunk right after and everyone thought they were pouting because they got an injured guy). Anyways, there's gonna be chances, a big one is this weekend. If they win 2/3 against the Jays they're in good shape. It would be really nice if Story was ready to help right now.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Aug 3, 2023 9:45:28 GMT -5
There is really no such thing as impact once the big spot has passed. If Story won’t be ready until later, then he is not the “deadline get” people assumed. They must win this weekend series. This is what people said about Schwarber in 2021 too (and the team stunk right after and everyone thought they were pouting because they got an injured guy). Anyways, there's gonna be chances, a big one is this weekend. If they win 2/3 against the Jays they're in good shape. It would be really nice if Story was ready to help right now. We’ll see. But right now, of the teams ahead of the Sox, only the Jays have a playoff% below 80%. (And only the Astros, who just got JV, are under 90%). The Jays are 67%, and the Sox are 22%. This series is colossal. If Story is a star, I’d rather have him rushed than whatever they are playing up the middle now.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Aug 3, 2023 9:52:22 GMT -5
This is what people said about Schwarber in 2021 too (and the team stunk right after and everyone thought they were pouting because they got an injured guy). Anyways, there's gonna be chances, a big one is this weekend. If they win 2/3 against the Jays they're in good shape. It would be really nice if Story was ready to help right now. We’ll see. But right now, of the teams ahead of the Sox, only the Jays have a playoff% below 80%. (And only the Astros, who just got JV, are under 90%). The Jays are 67%, and the Sox are 22%. This series is colossal. If Story is a star, I’d rather have him rushed than whatever they are playing up the middle now. We totally agree on this. I'm just sayin' they've beat the Blue Jays 7/7 times, if they don't have Story up for this weekend there's still a pretty solid chance it's not too late. If they lose 2/3 because of middle infield offense/defense and he's in AAA it definitely will hurt, here's hoping he rakes today in Syracuse and wants to play.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 5,366
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 3, 2023 9:53:52 GMT -5
I'm not terribly concerned on Story but perhaps I should be if after 30 rehab ABs he or more so the team doesn't feel like he would be an improvement on either SS or 2nd considering what little production they've gotten at those positions. Both for this year and the future years.
Even a rusty Story should be able to put up a better than 39 wRC+ that Chang has given them while striking out 31.7% of the time.
|
|