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7/31-8/2 Red Sox @ Mariners Series Thread
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 3, 2023 10:19:41 GMT -5
On top of Story, I'd also like to see them bring up Urias soon and run him at 2B frequently. He's got more upside than any of the middle infielders on the roster now, and the downside seems to be that he would just be as bad.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 10:42:52 GMT -5
I want to see guys know when they’re not ready yet to positively impact the team in a big spot There is really no such thing as impact once the big spot has passed. If Story won’t be ready until later, then he is not the “deadline get” people assumed. They must win this weekend series. The entirety of the next 2 months is a big spot, him missing a 3 game series to continue to get his timing back doesn’t mean much Again, he did not have spring training. He hasn’t played in close to a year.
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Post by julyanmorley on Aug 3, 2023 11:21:50 GMT -5
On top of Story, I'd also like to see them bring up Urias soon and run him at 2B frequently. He's got more upside than any of the middle infielders on the roster now, and the downside seems to be that he would just be as bad. I don't want to see him suit up for the WooSox even once
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 11:54:43 GMT -5
Not a warm and fuzzy feeling when your notoriously slow starting SS is asking for a few more games on a rehab stint. If he feels like he isn’t ready, is 3 games really going to vault him back to normal? But considering the lack of production the Sox get at short, there isn’t much to lose. He’s had 29 AB’s in his rehab. He would probably get 50+ in ST. He’s hitting the ball with power but he’s still striking out too much, I imagine he’s just trying to get his timing back. People need to understand he didn’t have a ST, the last time he played baseball was last season. “Hitting with power” and “striking out too much” is his whole offensive profile, though. If he’s hurting, that’s one thing, but the Sox don’t really have the luxury of time on their side here.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 12:12:43 GMT -5
He’s had 29 AB’s in his rehab. He would probably get 50+ in ST. He’s hitting the ball with power but he’s still striking out too much, I imagine he’s just trying to get his timing back. People need to understand he didn’t have a ST, the last time he played baseball was last season. “Hitting with power” and “striking out too much” is his whole offensive profile, though. If he’s hurting, that’s one thing, but the Sox don’t really have the luxury of time on their side here. I understand his player profile, he doesn’t normally strike out 40% of the time in the majors let alone AAA. People need to be patient, just because the deadline is over doesn’t mean there is a deadline to get him in now or he can’t play going forward. As mentioned on the prior page this is the exact same nonsense people said about Schwarber when acquired- “what’s the point? It’s gonna be too late to make an impact. They didn’t get better at all” We’ll survive another series with Yu Chang. He’s probably the better defender between the two anyway so if both aren’t gonna hit today then who would you rather play? Let Story get another 20 ABs so that he can get his timing.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 3, 2023 12:18:07 GMT -5
yeah. If Story is still having some discomfort from the injury, i can respect him wanting to stay down. If he is having some discomfort with this hitting timing...etc..etc..., i am not down with that. He can make the adjustments to ML pitching on the fly, he has some career at bats under his belt.
Heard around here so many times his glove will make the difference alone, time to prove that theory correct. And his bad hitting is likely better than Chang's very good hitting.
Disappointing news. The team needs what he has and that need should be here today.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 3, 2023 12:21:26 GMT -5
I understand his player profile, he doesn’t normally strike out 40% of the time in the majors let alone AAA. People need to be patient, just because the deadline is over doesn’t mean there is a deadline to get him in now or he can’t play going forward. As mentioned on the prior page this is the exact same nonsense people said about Schwarber when acquired- “what’s the point? It’s gonna be too late to make an impact. They didn’t get better at all” We’ll survive another series with Yu Chang. He’s probably the better defender between the two anyway so if both aren’t gonna hit today then who would you rather play? Let Story get another 20 ABs so that he can get his timing. i can't agree with this whole take, sorry brother. and as far as the bold, i think people have been very patient with him. I know you mean in the near term, but i am talking since he signed. Players play hurt, underperform, all the time. He should get up here now, his timing / confidence is the least of my concern.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2023 12:22:25 GMT -5
On top of Story, I'd also like to see them bring up Urias soon and run him at 2B frequently. He's got more upside than any of the middle infielders on the roster now, and the downside seems to be that he would just be as bad. I don't want to see him suit up for the WooSox even once Even in this terrible "off year" he's having (68 PAs with a .179 BABIP), he has a wRC+ (59) higher than Chang's (39) and only slightly worse than Arroyo's (66). His xwOBA (.287) is actually higher than Arroyo's (.270) and Chang's (.259) as well.
Having said that, Chang is actually in positive WAR territory despite the abysmal offense, which goes to show how valuable his defense has been on a team that has desperately needed it. I'd like to keep Chang around for that. But I would contentedly cut bait with Arroyo or Reyes to add Urias.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 12:24:50 GMT -5
I understand his player profile, he doesn’t normally strike out 40% of the time in the majors let alone AAA. People need to be patient, just because the deadline is over doesn’t mean there is a deadline to get him in now or he can’t play going forward. As mentioned on the prior page this is the exact same nonsense people said about Schwarber when acquired- “what’s the point? It’s gonna be too late to make an impact. They didn’t get better at all” We’ll survive another series with Yu Chang. He’s probably the better defender between the two anyway so if both aren’t gonna hit today then who would you rather play? Let Story get another 20 ABs so that he can get his timing. i can't agree with this whole take, sorry brother. and as far as the bold, i think people have been very patient with him. I know you mean in the near term, but i am talking since he signed. Players play hurt, underperform, all the time. He should get up here now, his timing / confidence is the least of my concern. You literally don’t care if he costs them games right now, that’s wild to me. History is repeating itself, this is the same nonsense we heard when Schwarber was acquired. People need instant gratification. He’s coming back from a major operation and had no spring training. He’s had 29 AB’s and has struck out in 40% of them. HES NOT READY. The hilarious thing is if he comes back and sucks all of you criticizing him for needing more AB’s will be the first ones to bash him for underperforming. The only acceptable scenario for this group is that he comes back now and is a good hitter/good fielder right away. That has to be the expectation, otherwise you would just play it safe and keep the elite defender at SS until Story is actually ready
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 3, 2023 12:30:06 GMT -5
i can't agree with this whole take, sorry brother. and as far as the bold, i think people have been very patient with him. I know you mean in the near term, but i am talking since he signed. Players play hurt, underperform, all the time. He should get up here now, his timing / confidence is the least of my concern. You literally don’t care if he costs them games right now, that’s wild to me. History is repeating itself, this is the same nonsense we heard when Schwarber was acquired. it really can't be proven that it will gonna cost us games, unless he is actually playing those games. and his baserunning, glove, presence in the lineup might mean the opposite. I mean, if he just walks 1 a game, his OBP will be higher than Chang. Edit : your edit was pure projection. I can respect his decision to stay down, it is his life, but i can also disagree with it, for the baseball reasons i have stated.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 3, 2023 12:32:43 GMT -5
Their next game is August 4th. The latest Story can come back (rehab time limit) is August 9th. Imma go ahead and say that a 5 game range in the projected return date for a player who's missed the first two-thirds of the season is not worth anyone getting their dander up about.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 3, 2023 12:39:42 GMT -5
ill say one last thing on the Story situation, as a reminder. This coming series has the potential for a 6 game swing relative to the Blue Jays. We are at home. His availability as pinch runner / hitter, defensive replacement, starter...whatever....could be very important. He can have that kind of impact.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 3, 2023 12:41:03 GMT -5
Their next game is August 4th. The latest Story can come back (rehab time limit) is August 9th. Imma go ahead and say that a 5 game range in the projected return date for a player who's missed the first two-thirds of the season is not worth anyone getting their dander up about. see my post. there are some series that are more important than others.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Aug 3, 2023 13:38:25 GMT -5
Ellsbury was pretty exciting... I will never forget him stealing home against the MFY. He definitely was. And I loved Ellsbury. But this “single turned into a double” routine(seemingly every night) has made Duran a can’t-miss AB. I’d still have Jacoby 3rd on that list since I started watching the Sox. Fair.. I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn that many routine singles into extra bags, and then more when the fielders inevitably rush to try and get a throw there. It's a joy to watch.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 3, 2023 15:54:27 GMT -5
You can tell none of us like days off (I am sure the players think differently) - hence the Mariners thread lives on and on.
Weird day, for sure.
We'll see what Red Sox team shows up back in Fenway with big games ahead.
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 16:24:14 GMT -5
He definitely was. And I loved Ellsbury. But this “single turned into a double” routine(seemingly every night) has made Duran a can’t-miss AB. I’d still have Jacoby 3rd on that list since I started watching the Sox. Fair.. I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn that many routine singles into extra bags, and then more when the fielders inevitably rush to try and get a throw there. It's a joy to watch. Are there other guys in the past with the Red Sox who were this exciting(pre-80’s)? Was Fred Lynn a guy like that? I remember Ellis Burks being really exciting when he came up, but nothing quite like The Duran Show.
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 16:32:30 GMT -5
ill say one last thing on the Story situation, as a reminder. This coming series has the potential for a 6 game swing relative to the Blue Jays. We are at home. His availability as pinch runner / hitter, defensive replacement, starter...whatever....could be very important. He can have that kind of impact. I hate to present the money angle here, but Story is also the 2nd or 3rd highest-paid player on the team. He makes about $3.5m/month. Meanwhile, he’s played in about 35% of his team’s games since he signed. This guy has just been a massive black hole. If he wants more time, that’s how it’s going to be. But it’s not out-of-bounds to criticize him especially given the timing of the Blue Jays series. It’s time for him to earn some of that money. He’s one of the reasons I have to pay $15 for a decent beer at the ballpark. I’d like to see him on-hand.
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Post by slam761 on Aug 3, 2023 16:37:20 GMT -5
Urias has been hitting pretty well for the last month in AAA. I'd much rather call him up now and DFA Arroyo tbh. At the very least, I can't see him providing less than Arroyo has.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 3, 2023 16:42:03 GMT -5
ill say one last thing on the Story situation, as a reminder. This coming series has the potential for a 6 game swing relative to the Blue Jays. We are at home. His availability as pinch runner / hitter, defensive replacement, starter...whatever....could be very important. He can have that kind of impact. I hate to present the money angle here, but Story is also the 2nd or 3rd highest-paid player on the team. He makes about $3.5m/month. Meanwhile, he’s played in about 35% of his team’s games since he signed. This guy has just been a massive black hole. If he wants more time, that’s how it’s going to be. But it’s not out-of-bounds to criticize him especially given the timing of the Blue Jays series. It’s time for him to earn some of that money. He’s one of the reasons I have to pay $15 for a decent beer at the ballpark. I’d like to see him on-hand. Trevor Story is not one of the reasons you pay $15 for a decent beer, you pay that much because you’re getting price gouged by billionaires Like is this really where we are at in here? A guy thinks he needs a few more rehab AB’s after not playing in a year (and he wants these rehab AB’s because he wants to help this team the best he can) and now he’s a black hole who causes everybody to pay more in concessions. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said “maybe he doesn’t want to come back too soon and struggle because he plays in an obnoxious market and knows he’ll be unfairly ripped”
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 3, 2023 17:24:02 GMT -5
Fair.. I don't think I've ever seen anyone turn that many routine singles into extra bags, and then more when the fielders inevitably rush to try and get a throw there. It's a joy to watch. Are there other guys in the past with the Red Sox who were this exciting(pre-80’s)? Was Fred Lynn a guy like that? I remember Ellis Burks being really exciting when he came up, but nothing quite like The Duran Show. Sure they're were exciting guys pre-80s but they werent like Duran, but it depends on how exciting is defined. Fred Lynn and Jim Rice were exciting. Lynn batted .419 in late Sept 1974 and then hit .331 in 1975 winning the MVP and ROY. He even had a 3 HR 10 RBI game Rice was in Lynn's shadow until 1978 when he smashed 46 HRs and knocked in 139. I found Boggs and Clemens exciting in the 80s if you like season and lifetime averages above .350 and 20 K games and 3 Cy Young awards. In the 90s Mo, Nomar, and Pedro were exciting and then look later on Manny and Ortiz. But for blazing speed its Duran. He us electrifying. Ellsbury stole more bases including home and was ver efficient, but he didnt routinely turn singles into doubles. I think Ellsbury was more conservative in that regard while Duran will take off even if a great throw gets him out. He'll take the risk and force the defense to execute well. In that regard Duran is unique, and yeah I define that as exciting.
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Post by yuchangclan on Aug 3, 2023 21:40:06 GMT -5
I hate to present the money angle here, but Story is also the 2nd or 3rd highest-paid player on the team. He makes about $3.5m/month. Meanwhile, he’s played in about 35% of his team’s games since he signed. This guy has just been a massive black hole. If he wants more time, that’s how it’s going to be. But it’s not out-of-bounds to criticize him especially given the timing of the Blue Jays series. It’s time for him to earn some of that money. He’s one of the reasons I have to pay $15 for a decent beer at the ballpark. I’d like to see him on-hand. Trevor Story is not one of the reasons you pay $15 for a decent beer, you pay that much because you’re getting price gouged by billionaires Like is this really where we are at in here? A guy thinks he needs a few more rehab AB’s after not playing in a year (and he wants these rehab AB’s because he wants to help this team the best he can) and now he’s a black hole who causes everybody to pay more in concessions. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said “maybe he doesn’t want to come back too soon and struggle because he plays in an obnoxious market and knows he’ll be unfairly ripped” I think you took the concession comment to a bit of an extreme place. That was mostly meant to be a joke(though parking and concession prices ARE out of control). Aaron Judge missed 2 months….faced live pitching a couple times and came right back without a rehab assignment(limping all the while). I’m NOT comparing Story to Judge here. I’m just saying some guys want it, and some guys want to make sure they get the full 30 days that the Union negotiated for rehab. I think Story is getting ripped more for this than he would if he just came back and stunk. We’ve set the SS bar pretty low this year.
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