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8/11-8/13 Red Sox vs. Tigers Series Thread
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 13, 2023 16:01:07 GMT -5
Sox 15% playoff chance, MFY 7%.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2023 16:04:15 GMT -5
Chris Sale on Garrett Whitlock in Spring Training 2021: “The Yankees got 40 guys better than this?”
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Post by keninten on Aug 13, 2023 16:15:35 GMT -5
Go Orioles
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Post by taiwansox on Aug 13, 2023 16:26:59 GMT -5
No help from the Cubs or Marlins today Well done with the reverse jinx sir
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Post by carmenfanzone on Aug 13, 2023 16:46:20 GMT -5
Glad to be wrong about putting Turner on the DL. Glad to see him contributing against the Tigers even though he can only DH.
Red Sox seemed weaker against left hand pitching earlier this year with all their left handed hitting and Story and Duval out. Now with Story, Duval, Reyes, and Turner they seem to have a better chance against lefties.
Of course, now their left handed hitters except for Casas all slump together and now they are having a tougher time against Righties.
Go figure.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 13, 2023 16:50:04 GMT -5
No help from the Cubs or Marlins today Not so fast my friend. WFAN gonna be a blast the next few days! Between that, the Yankees rotation collapsing and the Rodón contract, the Bronx is going to be a very dark place for the rest of this season.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Aug 13, 2023 17:31:25 GMT -5
Not so fast my friend. WFAN gonna be a blast the next few days! Between that, the Yankees rotation collapsing and the Rodón contract, the Bronx is going to be a very dark place for the rest of this season. Baseball is always brighter when the Bronx is burning
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 13, 2023 18:27:06 GMT -5
Mariners lose. Sox pick up a game on the Astros, M’s and Yanks. It could be fortunate we play the Yanks next week right as they are falling apart.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Aug 13, 2023 18:42:24 GMT -5
I started watching baseball in 1997. I have never seen the Yankees end the season with a losing record. I would love to see that for the first time
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,836
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Post by TearsIn04 on Aug 13, 2023 19:34:23 GMT -5
Wow. Yankees suffer one of the all-time bad beats today. 98.4% win probability going into the 9th. Bahahaha Wow! I didn't realize that this beautiful thing had happened until I checked in here. Let's ask Papi what he has to say.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 13, 2023 19:38:08 GMT -5
I’ve honestly had the idea of dealing Yoshida in the off-season creep into my head. It would make the pieces fit a lot better and you gotta imagine some teams like his bat a lot. Hell I like his bat a lot and think he’s one of the best pure hitters in the game Would be unpopular but it could be for the best if they add a different impact bat that plays a different position I’d far rather trade Verdugo. Masa is signed to an affordable contract, and he’s a better hitter. Moot, because I imagine a 0% chance Masa gets dealt. Agreed, Bloom has not talked to Verdugo about an extension, and Bloom likes to maximize value, so I see Verdugo traded. My theory for why Duvall was not traded is because Bloom wants to re-sign him for a year or two.
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Post by redsox56 on Aug 13, 2023 19:44:04 GMT -5
I’ve been a Whitlock-as-starter guy, but I think I’ve changed my mind. The injuries have probably changed 99 percent of the front office and fans minds. It's all about keeping Whitlock healthy from this point on.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Aug 13, 2023 19:57:02 GMT -5
I’d far rather trade Verdugo. Masa is signed to an affordable contract, and he’s a better hitter. Moot, because I imagine a 0% chance Masa gets dealt. Agreed, Bloom has not talked to Verdugo about an extension, and Bloom likes to maximize value, so I see Verdugo traded. My theory for why Duvall was not traded is because Bloom wants to re-sign him for a year or two. The trade deadline was the best time to trade Verdugo, his value will take a hit with less control and some clubhouse issues emerging.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 13, 2023 20:36:36 GMT -5
Agreed, Bloom has not talked to Verdugo about an extension, and Bloom likes to maximize value, so I see Verdugo traded. My theory for why Duvall was not traded is because Bloom wants to re-sign him for a year or two. The trade deadline was the best time to trade Verdugo, his value will take a hit with less control and some clubhouse issues emerging. 1)Maybe Bloom did not get the return he wanted given the time constraints. In the offseason he has roughly 5 months to assess what package of minor leaguers he wants. 2) Maybe trading Verdugo would have been too big of a disruption to the club house during the season. I lean towards excuse #1…. Who knows…but if Bloom was interested in re-signing Verdugo I think he would have by now regardless of declining time of team control (Verdugo also hit like shit for a month before the deadline…).
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Post by redsox56 on Aug 13, 2023 20:52:36 GMT -5
The trade deadline was the best time to trade Verdugo, his value will take a hit with less control and some clubhouse issues emerging. 1)Maybe Bloom did not get the return he wanted given the time constraints. In the offseason he has roughly 5 months to assess what package of minor leaguers he wants. 2) Maybe trading Verdugo would have been too big of a disruption to the club house during the season. I lean towards excuse #1…. Who knows…but if Bloom was interested in re-signing Verdugo I think he would have by now regardless of declining time of team control (Verdugo also hit like shit for a month before the deadline…). I don't think Fanatic said anything controversial. Just the obvious. Verdugo's questionable benchings this season raises questions, and the control is depleting, which was his best asset as a controllable cheap piece. The Sox might trade Verdugo by next season regardless, because they believe in what Abreu and Rafaela are doing and want to open up room. Either that or the offer is good enough (multitude of factors really).
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Post by patford on Aug 13, 2023 20:56:13 GMT -5
The trade deadline was the best time to trade Verdugo, his value will take a hit with less control and some clubhouse issues emerging. 1)Maybe Bloom did not get the return he wanted given the time constraints. In the offseason he has roughly 5 months to assess what package of minor leaguers he wants. 2) Maybe trading Verdugo would have been too big of a disruption to the club house during the season. I lean towards excuse #1…. Who knows…but if Bloom was interested in re-signing Verdugo I think he would have by now regardless of declining time of team control (Verdugo also hit like shit for a month before the deadline…). That's correct. We have no idea what went down aside from the fact Bloom was apparently working the phones and next to nothing happened. For all we know other GMs believed they could take advantage of the Sox and Bloom because they felt Bloom would cave to pressure. If that is the case it's much better long term if Bloom does not show weakness. Of course that's pure speculation but it's all speculation. One thing I notice on the forum is the people who want to move on from a certain player also seem to believe the player they don't like is worth a lot on the trade market and will bring a great return.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 13, 2023 21:25:46 GMT -5
All of the rash of recent unclaimed DFAs has added some fantastic depth of players that are unlikely to be claimed in the Rule 5, unlikely to find a major league contract and unlikely to look elsewhere for a minor league contract. Little detail but great organization value.
Part of that value makes it easier to include redundant players like Yorke and Abreau as part of trade packages.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 13, 2023 21:26:42 GMT -5
Amazing - when Houck returns, with Joely and Kluber both shut down and I suspect done for the year, I can see Llovera departing to make room for Houck. When that happens we will have a clean active roster for the first time in ages - no key players listed on the IL for near term return, and our strongest staff.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,986
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Post by jimoh on Aug 14, 2023 5:45:26 GMT -5
Amazing - when Houck returns, with Joely and Kluber both shut down and I suspect done for the year, I can see Llovera departing to make room for Houck. When that happens we will have a clean active roster for the first time in ages - no key players listed on the IL for near term return, and our strongest staff. AKA "no scrubs"
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,791
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Post by mobaz on Aug 14, 2023 10:20:42 GMT -5
This is the biggest "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" team I can think of. Kind of the opposite of the 2022/3 Celtics. I wanna believe. I want so hard to believe.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 14, 2023 10:46:20 GMT -5
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 14, 2023 11:02:38 GMT -5
E-Rod’s start yesterday reminded me why I was/am glad the Red Sox decided not to give him an eight figure contract for five years. I think they are building a good, young, controllable, affordable pitching staff. It will be worth the time it took IMO.
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Post by scottysmalls on Aug 14, 2023 11:48:12 GMT -5
E-Rod’s start yesterday reminded me why I was/am glad the Red Sox decided not to give him an eight figure contract for five years. I think they are building a good, young, controllable, affordable pitching staff. It will be worth the time it took IMO. Other than Bello, who are you envisioning as part of this homegrown staff? I ask because imo they're in pretty rough shape, at least from a starting pitching perspective (which is what I assume you mean by pitching staff). The pitchers we've seen so far are probably 5th starter/bulk role types and unless you're still high on Drohan the reinforcements are few and very far away. The bullpen and bulk roles are set for the near future which is great, but who other than Bello is filling slots 1-3 in the rotation? The way I see it, three years from now you might have a "Bello, Perales and hope for rain" type of homegrown staff if they're lucky. Otherwise they're going to have to buy their rotation. Not that it's a bad situation, they should have the resources to buy the rotation if they can't build it. Just curious what you see that I don't. Crawford, Whitlock and Houck all run FIPs as starters this year that would make them mid-rotation guys if they can maintain it over a full season.
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Post by taiwansox on Aug 14, 2023 12:21:40 GMT -5
Other than Bello, who are you envisioning as part of this homegrown staff? I ask because imo they're in pretty rough shape, at least from a starting pitching perspective (which is what I assume you mean by pitching staff). The pitchers we've seen so far are probably 5th starter/bulk role types and unless you're still high on Drohan the reinforcements are few and very far away. The bullpen and bulk roles are set for the near future which is great, but who other than Bello is filling slots 1-3 in the rotation? The way I see it, three years from now you might have a "Bello, Perales and hope for rain" type of homegrown staff if they're lucky. Otherwise they're going to have to buy their rotation. Not that it's a bad situation, they should have the resources to buy the rotation if they can't build it. Just curious what you see that I don't. Crawford, Whitlock and Houck all run FIPs as starters this year that would make them mid-rotation guys if they can maintain it over a full season. Even Walter and Murphy haven’t looked bad, Drohan is a dark horse. So much better than the Lester/Buchholz to Bello interregnum that consisted of E-Rod (trade)and Brian Johnson/Velazquez for a decade. Our rotation outside of Sale is like $10M this year (minus Kluber not contributing anything), so it’s moving in the right direction
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 14, 2023 12:50:59 GMT -5
E-Rod’s start yesterday reminded me why I was/am glad the Red Sox decided not to give him an eight figure contract for five years. I think they are building a good, young, controllable, affordable pitching staff. It will be worth the time it took IMO. Other than Bello, who are you envisioning as part of this homegrown staff? I ask because imo they're in pretty rough shape, at least from a starting pitching perspective (which is what I assume you mean by pitching staff). The pitchers we've seen so far are probably 5th starter/bulk role types and unless you're still high on Drohan the reinforcements are few and very far away. The bullpen and bulk roles are set for the near future which is great, but who other than Bello is filling slots 1-3 in the rotation? The way I see it, three years from now you might have a "Bello, Perales and hope for rain" type of homegrown staff if they're lucky. Otherwise they're going to have to buy their rotation. Not that it's a bad situation, they should have the resources to buy the rotation if they can't build it. Just curious what you see that I don't. You assume incorrectly….by ‘staff’ I meant staff as in 13 pitchers. A strong group of multi-inning relievers can help make up for rotation members who no longer reach what used to be expected as in 7 or 8 innings regularly. For comparison look at the 1984 Red Sox: complete games / innings Boyd - 10 - 197 Hurst - 9 - 218 Ojeda - 8 - 216.2 Nipper - 6 - 182.2 Clemens - 5 - 133.1 (rookie year) In total that year 40 cg or 1/4 of the entire season were complete games. There is now much less reliance on starters and more innings shared by the entire staff (plus strong AAA depth). The Winckowski, Whitlock, Houck, Murphy (really effective) multi-inning relievers mean you do not need to rely as heavily on $20 to $30 million dollar starters and I see fewer and fewer real #1 or #2 starts in the MLB (no thank you on the Rodon and deGrom (Mr. 60 innings per year the last 4 years). The Red Sox are building a more broadly talented pitching staff that can withstand injuries to just a few key pitchers.
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