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9/26-9/27 Red Sox vs. Rays Series Thread
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Post by foreverred9 on Sept 27, 2023 19:33:39 GMT -5
Rafaela struggling recently, in particularly over the past week. That should give him something to think about for working on as he heads into the offseason.
If anything, I'm glad that we've been able to get him a lot of MLB at bats this month. Certainly want to see him succeed, let's hope he grows in a similar way that Duran has grown over the past few offseasons.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 27, 2023 19:36:16 GMT -5
Does Cora not deserve maybe a bit of heat for repeated September "we're done" jobs from his rosters?
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Sept 27, 2023 19:43:55 GMT -5
What an uninspiring performance by an uninspiring team. The bottom of the 9th says it all....This team is not even close to being a contender. Not even close !
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 19:45:40 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game.
Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it.
Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year.
Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one.
7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team.
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Post by yuchangclan on Sept 27, 2023 19:48:40 GMT -5
Does Cora not deserve maybe a bit of heat for repeated September "we're done" jobs from his rosters? If John Henry is paying attention to his product(and I’m not sure that he is), he would know that Cora should have been shown the door LAST year. He isn’t inspiring anyone nor is he getting the best out of anyone. They need to purge just about everyone from top to bottom and start from scratch. This is a disgrace.
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Post by yuchangclan on Sept 27, 2023 19:51:01 GMT -5
What an uninspiring performance by an uninspiring team. The bottom of the 9th says it all....This team is not even close to being a contender. Not even close ! 16 K’s tonight! 16! Ho-hum.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 27, 2023 19:52:50 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. Regardless. What Jansen said is asinine. Trading for pitchers guarantees nothing post trade deadline. Especially the pitchers that were traded this year. And. Uh. Jansen. Not sure trading for pitchers would have done jack to help our offense which cratered the past month plus. Unless you were wanting them to also hit.
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Post by Canseco on Sept 27, 2023 19:53:31 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. What did Jansen purportedly say?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 19:56:16 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. Regardless. What Jansen said is asinine. Trading for pitchers guarantees nothing post trade deadline. Especially the pitchers that were traded this year. And. Uh. Jansen. Not sure trading for pitchers would have done jack to help our offense which cratered the past month plus. Unless you were wanting them to also hit. And not trading for pitchers - well, we saw the results. Of course there is no guarantee, but when nothing is done and it sends a message, then we get what we got.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 19:57:03 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. What did Jansen purportedly say? www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/jansen-is-frustrated-about-what-might-have-been-for-red-sox
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Sept 27, 2023 20:02:25 GMT -5
Does Cora not deserve maybe a bit of heat for repeated September "we're done" jobs from his rosters? If John Henry is paying attention to his product(and I’m not sure that he is), he would know that Cora should have been shown the door LAST year. He isn’t inspiring anyone nor is he getting the best out of anyone. They need to purge just about everyone from top to bottom and start from scratch. This is a disgrace. I think they should fire Cora tonight. Roster construction was on Bloom. 9-22 is on Cora. No excuse.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:03:12 GMT -5
It's been a long time since getting to the end of the season with so few connections to players - so many I wouldn't mind saying goodbye to next year. Certainly not an unlikeable team - no apparent ego issues or jerks - just an ineffective team in so many facets.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 27, 2023 20:07:21 GMT -5
Regardless. What Jansen said is asinine. Trading for pitchers guarantees nothing post trade deadline. Especially the pitchers that were traded this year. And. Uh. Jansen. Not sure trading for pitchers would have done jack to help our offense which cratered the past month plus. Unless you were wanting them to also hit. And not trading for pitchers - well, we saw the results. Of course there is no guarantee, but when nothing is done and it sends a message, then we get what we got. And? There was literally one pitcher traded this deadline that has not blown up in the face of the new team. And that one pitcher wouldn’t have made a lick of difference with Bello and the rest of the rotation falling apart at once.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:09:01 GMT -5
And not trading for pitchers - well, we saw the results. Of course there is no guarantee, but when nothing is done and it sends a message, then we get what we got. And? There was literally one pitcher traded this deadline that has not blown up in the face of the new team. And that one pitcher wouldn’t have made a lick of difference with Bello and the rest of the rotation falling apart at once. I've seen this argument made many times - but too many variables for it to be valid. Any given player on a given team could perform very differently. So - I call bullshit on this excuse to not do something.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 27, 2023 20:09:43 GMT -5
Bello had a rough close of the season. Hope he just ran out of gas.
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Sept 27, 2023 20:09:46 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. Regardless. What Jansen said is asinine. Trading for pitchers guarantees nothing post trade deadline. Especially the pitchers that were traded this year. And. Uh. Jansen. Not sure trading for pitchers would have done jack to help our offense which cratered the past month plus. Unless you were wanting them to also hit. Nothing wrong with Jansen speaking out. Everybody knew that in order to have a shot at the playoffs, pitching was needed. Devers spoke out at the deadline as well. No big moves were made. No attempt. POBO says his team are underdogs. What a joke. Bloom was a quitter. Cora went all passive aggressive. He is a joke and needs to go. More players should have spoken up,more,in my mind.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 27, 2023 20:12:03 GMT -5
And? There was literally one pitcher traded this deadline that has not blown up in the face of the new team. And that one pitcher wouldn’t have made a lick of difference with Bello and the rest of the rotation falling apart at once. I've seen this argument made many times - but too many variables for it to be valid. Any given player on a given team could perform very differently. So - I call bullshit on this excuse to not do something. But again. I dont buy it. And its just them being poor sports. And again. How would have trading for pitching helped our current offense which is literally hitting like 9 pitchers. And Bello running out of gas. Even if we traded for pitching, the team would have gone nowhere with an inafective bello
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:17:36 GMT -5
I've seen this argument made many times - but too many variables for it to be valid. Any given player on a given team could perform very differently. So - I call bullshit on this excuse to not do something. But again. I dont buy it. And its just them being poor sports. And again. How would have trading for pitching helped our current offense which is literally hitting like 9 pitchers. And Bello running out of gas. Even if we traded for pitching, the team would have gone nowhere with an inafective bello We won't know - there is a butterfly effect to all of these possibilities. But all we can confirm is that the path we took worked very poorly.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:23:00 GMT -5
At this point my short keep list - Wong, Devers (kind of regrettably), Story (kind of regrettably), Casas, Duran - Period. As far as the young players - Abreu, Valdez, Rafaela - promising - but ready? And Bello, Pivetta, Crawford, Houck (but the last two probably not as starters), Martin, Winck, Whitlock. Period. 12 players plus the 3 kids maybe.
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Post by dirtdog on Sept 27, 2023 20:27:02 GMT -5
At this point my short keep list - Wong, Devers (kind of regrettably), Story (kind of regrettably), Casas, Duran - Period. As far as the young players - Abreu, Valdez, Rafaela - promising - but ready? And Bello, Pivetta, Crawford, Houck (but the last two probably not as starters), Martin, Winck, Whitlock. Period. 12 players plus the 3 kids maybe. Sounds about right. If they dont reshape the roster what was the point in firing Bloom? I think we may see some of the players from the upcoming Padres fire sale here in the spring. Maybe an add from Japan. I just hope they dont gut the minors in the process.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:28:39 GMT -5
At this point my short keep list - Wong, Devers (kind of regrettably), Story (kind of regrettably), Casas, Duran - Period. As far as the young players - Abreu, Valdez, Rafaela - promising - but ready? And Bello, Pivetta, Crawford, Houck (but the last two probably not as starters), Martin, Winck, Whitlock. Period. 12 players plus the 3 kids maybe. Sounds about right. If they dont reshape the roster what was the point in firing Bloom? I think we may see some of the players from the upcoming Padres fire sale here in the spring. Maybe an add from Japan. I just hope they dont gut the minors in the process. I just hope they don't fall too much in love with too many of the players on the current roster. I do sense a bit of organization overrating going on.
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Post by foreverred9 on Sept 27, 2023 20:38:43 GMT -5
I'm feeling very good about Devers rebounding year. Maybe not on the defensive front, but he was one of the best batters in baseball again this year in the Statcast metrics. So he was getting great swings all year, and nearly identical to last year, just didn't translate as well into results this year as they did last year. baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/percentile-rankings?type=batter&team=
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 27, 2023 20:40:50 GMT -5
Since 2012 - 6 times last place, 4 first place including 2 WS.
Feast or famine to the extreme. Would be nice to smooth out the amplitude a bit.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 27, 2023 20:41:02 GMT -5
I'm feeling very good about Devers rebounding year. Maybe not on the defensive front, but he was one of the best batters in baseball again this year in the Statcast metrics. So he was getting great swings all year, and nearly identical to last year, just didn't translate as well into results this year as they did last year. baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/percentile-rankings?type=batter&team=Generally agree, but will say there was a point in 2022 before injury where he looked like another level of hitter entirely. He also did that for about two months this year but then surrounding that wasn't as good despite not being injured, which is a little disappointing in that it makes it less likely he can maintain that level. Hard to say a 130-140 wRC+ is disappointing, but there was a minute it looked like he had 160 in him.
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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,835
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Post by TearsIn04 on Sept 27, 2023 21:13:20 GMT -5
The end of this season reinforces one thing - there is a human element to this game - you can't use advanced stats to explain it away. Teams can fold - not tank, but fold - down moods, bad moods - effort and performance is effected. We've just witnessed it. We witnessed the impact of the trading deadline. We witnessed the impact of the Bear Claw game. Another thing - When players speak, we need to pay attention. What Jansen said - if he said it, he isn't the only player thinking it. Last - the offense is not OK. I don't care about how many total runs we scored, or the batting average. It is not how much you score it is when. It is scoring runs to win games. We left a small city of runner on base this year. Every aspect of this team needs work. Every single one. 7-22 in our last 29. That's a pretty bad team. I agree with every word of this and would add that the crap September further convinces me this team that will not compete in 2024 without making a boatload of big signings that will prove damaging down the line. Sign the P from Japan, work something out with Casas and maybe even Duran. Go with a one-year contract for Duval, or a Duval facsimilie who's available. See what you can get for Dugo. I'm curious about what Sonny Gray will get. If the years are reasonable, chase him. If not, sign next year's Garrett Richards/Michael Wacha/Cory Kluber to a one-year deal. Don't get locked into a lot of long-term contracts to chase 85 W's and end up regretting the dead salary you're carrying once the farm pushes more young, cost-controlled onto the roster. To Bloom's credit, he kept contracts short last off-season, except for Yoshi, who hasn't worked out. But even after spending $80M in FA AAV for this year, the team is as bad, maybe worse, than last year. This is about 2025 and beyond IMO.
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