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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 7, 2024 18:53:52 GMT -5
Longtime college & draft prospect writer (he writes the annual FREAKS column) of The Athletic, Nick Baumgardner, does not find Daniels to be a Johnny-Come-Lately QB prospect: It's going to be great drama how these QB decisions play out. Reputations will be made; jobs will be lost; some analysts will take victory laps while others will be mocked relentlessly. Good times. Halfway through the season he has him tier 3, after talking about how he kept rising after his bad Florida State game week after week. Fighting with Sanders for QB5/6. Heck starting out the year he's talking about Kansas QB Jaylon Daniels, not Jayden Daniels. November 2022 he's talking top 5 QBs for 2023 draft and if anyone is missing, zero mention of Daniels. Daniels was draft eligible, just like the Texas QB he had Tier 2 same time of the year. theathletic.com/4942383/2023/10/09/2024-nfl-draft-qb-rankings-drake-maye/Maybe I missed something but I just looked over everything he wrote since middle of 2022 from the Athletic. So where did he say that? Just like every draft. Just looked up Burgers list to start 2023, he's 9th to 12th preseason. We don't know what underclassmen were higher like Sanders and Beck. Nix top rated senior was 6th. That just matches everything I've seen, day 3 pick entering this year. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 8, 2024 18:59:05 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 9, 2024 10:36:48 GMT -5
Kendrick Bourne knows exactly why he was in the dog house, he eludes to it talking about how he thought they'd have a different OC. He acted like Mac Jones towards Matt Patricia. They should have benched both of them!
Jonathan Jones also talked about the toxic locker room, saying it was defense upset at the offense for not producing. Which matches reports of players siding with Zappe and players done with Mac Jones. Like he clears out his locker, then Mayo named coach and he shows up in practice gear. It's funny because Bourne tries to spin it on the coaches, when it was really players upset at people not buying in and being team first players.
It's why Bill wanted to move on from Mac Jones, but our Owner didn't want that. So he forced Bill O'Brian on him.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 9, 2024 12:22:28 GMT -5
... So he forced Bill O'Brian on him. Now that Billy is the new BC HC, it would be a small kindness should you you deign to spell his name correctly. Or maybe just call him BOB or Obie? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 9, 2024 12:24:11 GMT -5
I’m not comfortable with take Daniels at 3 with a guy like Marvin Harrison on the board. Unless Daniels turns out to be a stud then I didn’t say this.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 9, 2024 13:40:04 GMT -5
Kendrick Bourne knows exactly why he was in the dog house, he eludes to it talking about how he thought they'd have a different OC. He acted like Mac Jones towards Matt Patricia. They should have benched both of them! Jonathan Jones also talked about the toxic locker room, saying it was defense upset at the offense for not producing. Which matches reports of players siding with Zappe and players done with Mac Jones. Like he clears out his locker, then Mayo named coach and he shows up in practice gear. It's funny because Bourne tries to spin it on the coaches, when it was really players upset at people not buying in and being team first players. It's why Bill wanted to move on from Mac Jones, but our Owner didn't want that. So he forced Bill O'Brian on him. So because they thought they were going to get another OC Bourne got sat down for a good chunk of the season? He was their best receiver the year before. I can't blame him for being upset with Patricia because stunting his production directly costs him money and I don't think that level of punishment was warranted. He went back looking like our best WR as well when Billy O was the OC. IIRC, it all started when KB showed up late to a practice. I don't think you do that with your number 1 receiver. I agree that the toxic culture was with the defense being upset that they could hold teams to 10 points or less and still lose games. I'd be angry too. Zappe shined from time to time, but he really wasn't that much of an upgrade over Mac and with time the league was figuring him out more and more. It was a hopeless situation and I hope neither guy is back. As terrible as MP is as a coach, it is interesting that their PPG absolutely collapsed under Billy O. The two best offensive weapons for the Patriots in recent years have now taken direct shots at the coaching in one way or another. It looks like the defense is blaming the offense as a whole and the offensive players are transferring the blame to the coaching. |
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Feb 9, 2024 15:46:23 GMT -5
Hightower new LB coach.
I hope Troy Brown sticks around, LOVED him as a player and guessing he's a good coach.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 9, 2024 15:50:33 GMT -5
Hightower new LB coach. I hope Troy Brown sticks around, LOVED him as a player and guessing he's a good coach. I'm guessing the goal here is that if the LBs aren't good or they suffer a rash of injuries they'll activate one of their coaches? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 9, 2024 18:30:57 GMT -5
Hightower new LB coach. I hope Troy Brown sticks around, LOVED him as a player and guessing he's a good coach. I'm guessing the goal here is that if the LBs aren't good or they suffer a rash of injuries they'll activate one of their coaches? I’m not sure if i said it here or just to my friends but Mayo has always talked about Hightower being a coach so I figured he’d be reaching out to him once he go the job. I wasn’t sure of Hightowers interest in coaching. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 9, 2024 19:02:18 GMT -5
Bernd Buchmasser connecting some internet dots & suggesting LeGarrette Blount MIGHT be the new RB coach.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 10, 2024 9:03:53 GMT -5
I’m not comfortable with take Daniels at 3 with a guy like Marvin Harrison on the board. Unless Daniels turns out to be a stud then I didn’t say this. I'd add Bowers to that also, he's being so underrated right now in some mocks. Best pure receiving TE in a long time and a crazy safe pick. I actually think there's a good chance Daniels goes top two. Is Washington going to draft Maye when they already have Howell from the same school and offense? If they do, there's a trade candidate for you. First year starter that they had attempt the most passes in the NFL, which is crazy. Former Chiefs OC acted like he was Mahomes I'd say Daniels who's best traits is deep ball passing isn't a great fit for our new OC system either. Everything about Daniels scares me right down to taking him or not taking him. One thing I agree on that Kiper said, if you have questions don't take him. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 10, 2024 9:44:37 GMT -5
Kendrick Bourne knows exactly why he was in the dog house, he eludes to it talking about how he thought they'd have a different OC. He acted like Mac Jones towards Matt Patricia. They should have benched both of them! Jonathan Jones also talked about the toxic locker room, saying it was defense upset at the offense for not producing. Which matches reports of players siding with Zappe and players done with Mac Jones. Like he clears out his locker, then Mayo named coach and he shows up in practice gear. It's funny because Bourne tries to spin it on the coaches, when it was really players upset at people not buying in and being team first players. It's why Bill wanted to move on from Mac Jones, but our Owner didn't want that. So he forced Bill O'Brian on him. So because they thought they were going to get another OC Bourne got sat down for a good chunk of the season? He was their best receiver the year before. I can't blame him for being upset with Patricia because stunting his production directly costs him money and I don't think that level of punishment was warranted. He went back looking like our best WR as well when Billy O was the OC. IIRC, it all started when KB showed up late to a practice. I don't think you do that with your number 1 receiver. I agree that the toxic culture was with the defense being upset that they could hold teams to 10 points or less and still lose games. I'd be angry too. Zappe shined from time to time, but he really wasn't that much of an upgrade over Mac and with time the league was figuring him out more and more. It was a hopeless situation and I hope neither guy is back. As terrible as MP is as a coach, it is interesting that their PPG absolutely collapsed under Billy O. The two best offensive weapons for the Patriots in recent years have now taken direct shots at the coaching in one way or another. It looks like the defense is blaming the offense as a whole and the offensive players are transferring the blame to the coaching. 2021 he played 52% of the snaps, 2022 he played 44%. It's not as drastic as you make it sound. 2023 he played 73%. He can be upset, what he can't do is let that effect his play learning a new system. My take Bourne and Jones didn't buy in, so a message was sent. Remember it says a bunch of things building up to the late meeting, not just that. I also don't think he was our #1 WR, he was a matchup guy that McDaniels used perfectly in the right situations. They got a few big plays because of that, teams not using top CB on him. Last year he took Meyers role as possession slot WR. Lol what you call the league figuring him out, I call he lost players to injuries. Bourne already out, then Stevenson, then Henry, then JuJu, also Boutte then our starting LT and LG. He got sacked ten times the last two games, plus a ton of hits and hurries. Zappe is still a good backup QB. 2022 we have reports players back Zappe want him to keep starting. As you said the offense was much better that year, even with all the bitching and complaining. 2023 we have the D attacking the offense per Jones. Meyers isn't on that team and I haven't heard any players attacking our OC. One thing in common was Mac Jones, who got worse as the season went along for 3rd straight year. Still can't believe after that Bills game, maybe his best game of his career, he just falls off a cliff. I thought that would be a turning point and it was, just in the wrong direction. Then reports from players about Mac Jones at Mayo's press conference, after cleaning out his locker. It's a shame because Mac Jones has enough talent to be a starter, he just let's mistakes effect his play. |
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Post by costpet on Feb 10, 2024 10:14:56 GMT -5
I don't think Mac would be a good backup after they draft a QB. They have to let him go. Let him be somebody else's backup. After the draft, they should bring in 2-3 more QBs that were not drafted, just to see. You never know how someone else could emerge.
I hope they keep Troy Brown as a coach, but Mayo might think differently. It's Mayo's team now, first picking coaches, then the all important draft and free agent signings. He has a great draft order and lots of money to spend. Talk about a fresh start. This is one of the most interesting off seasons yet. Total remake of the offense and a good core on defense. Got to find a new kicker, as well.
It seems everyday something intriguing is happening. Fun off season.
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Feb 10, 2024 20:31:57 GMT -5
For the "MHJ or Bowers at 3 and QB in the 2nd crowd", sounds like that might not be an option. That was my theory from earlier this offseason because there's something like 10 open jobs, only 2 FAs that move the needle AT ALL, and 6 potential start-able draftees. Plus some teams with an older QB starter might try to draft one a year or two early, (J-Love style).
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 10, 2024 20:40:25 GMT -5
How about this Dane Bomb:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 11, 2024 13:43:38 GMT -5
How do evaluate McCarthy? Last 6 games five versus ranked teams, you get 7/8 for 60 yards versus Penn State, 10/18 for 140 yards versus Washington. One game under 100 yards, only one game over 200 yards. They run the ball 2/3 of the time, he attempts less passes per game than Tom Brady in 1998. Patrick Mahomes has two years of more completions than McCarthy has attempted passes in a season. Those 5 games should have been a scouts dream to end a season before the draft. Instead you basically get the Bama tape and zero games with more passes than runs. Which will happen almost every game in today's NFL. The modern day QB has to lead his teams offense, he did that once in a blowout to a bad Purdue team.
You like what you see, it's just what you can't see that's scary. You wanted to see him at Senior Bowl, he wins by not showing up. So certainly a smart move by his agents, but still leaves so many questions. Did Michigan help him by limiting his throws or did they hurt him? Just no way an amateur scout can really compare him to other QBs and grade him. Only a two year starter, when you want 3 years.
The more I study McCarthy, the more my head spins. Obviously NFL scouts have much more information, I really have no clue.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2024 14:16:38 GMT -5
So because they thought they were going to get another OC Bourne got sat down for a good chunk of the season? He was their best receiver the year before. I can't blame him for being upset with Patricia because stunting his production directly costs him money and I don't think that level of punishment was warranted. He went back looking like our best WR as well when Billy O was the OC. IIRC, it all started when KB showed up late to a practice. I don't think you do that with your number 1 receiver. I agree that the toxic culture was with the defense being upset that they could hold teams to 10 points or less and still lose games. I'd be angry too. Zappe shined from time to time, but he really wasn't that much of an upgrade over Mac and with time the league was figuring him out more and more. It was a hopeless situation and I hope neither guy is back. As terrible as MP is as a coach, it is interesting that their PPG absolutely collapsed under Billy O. The two best offensive weapons for the Patriots in recent years have now taken direct shots at the coaching in one way or another. It looks like the defense is blaming the offense as a whole and the offensive players are transferring the blame to the coaching. 2021 he played 52% of the snaps, 2022 he played 44%. It's not as drastic as you make it sound. 2023 he played 73%. He can be upset, what he can't do is let that effect his play learning a new system. My take Bourne and Jones didn't buy in, so a message was sent. Remember it says a bunch of things building up to the late meeting, not just that. I also don't think he was our #1 WR, he was a matchup guy that McDaniels used perfectly in the right situations. They got a few big plays because of that, teams not using top CB on him. Last year he took Meyers role as possession slot WR. Lol what you call the league figuring him out, I call he lost players to injuries. Bourne already out, then Stevenson, then Henry, then JuJu, also Boutte then our starting LT and LG. He got sacked ten times the last two games, plus a ton of hits and hurries. Zappe is still a good backup QB. 2022 we have reports players back Zappe want him to keep starting. As you said the offense was much better that year, even with all the bitching and complaining. 2023 we have the D attacking the offense per Jones. Meyers isn't on that team and I haven't heard any players attacking our OC. One thing in common was Mac Jones, who got worse as the season went along for 3rd straight year. Still can't believe after that Bills game, maybe his best game of his career, he just falls off a cliff. I thought that would be a turning point and it was, just in the wrong direction. Then reports from players about Mac Jones at Mayo's press conference, after cleaning out his locker. It's a shame because Mac Jones has enough talent to be a starter, he just let's mistakes effect his play. I mean, an 8% dip is kind of substantial, especially when he likely should have had more reps than the year before so you're more than likely talking 10-12%. That's also not accounting for targets either. He went from 70 targets to 48 in 1 less game. He had more targets and receptions this year despite only playing in 8 games. If neither your 1st round QB who took you to the playoffs the year before and your WR1 and likely the QBs favorite target in Jackobi Meyers are all not buying in, maybe it's not a system worth running? If Bourne wasn't the the WR1, who was? He's not a WR1 like Stephan Diggs, but on this team he was, sort of like Bello being the opening day starter for the Sox. He's not an ace (hopefully he can be), but on the Red Sox he's the number 1. I agree the time to go to Zappe was way too long. In the end, I think he's the better QB. I get the logic though of sticking with Mac. The upside is much greater and if you pull the plug, it's over. Neither guy is an NFL starter. You might have won more with Zappe, but it was a losing battle either way. I think Zappe is a fine backup and he had injuries, but he turned the ball over a lot too. Zappe | Mac - QBR 23.4% | 36.6 Rating - 68.7 | 77.0 9 interceptions in 10 games. He started in 6 games. | 12 inceptions in 11 games. Completion % 59.9% | 64.9% But Zappe would throw the ball down field where Mac wouldn't and after the Bills game, Mac just wasn't the same for what ever reason. I'm a bit surprised to see Mac had a smaller sack%. That felt like the opposite to me. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 11, 2024 14:25:49 GMT -5
2021 he played 52% of the snaps, 2022 he played 44%. It's not as drastic as you make it sound. 2023 he played 73%. He can be upset, what he can't do is let that effect his play learning a new system. My take Bourne and Jones didn't buy in, so a message was sent. Remember it says a bunch of things building up to the late meeting, not just that. I also don't think he was our #1 WR, he was a matchup guy that McDaniels used perfectly in the right situations. They got a few big plays because of that, teams not using top CB on him. Last year he took Meyers role as possession slot WR. Lol what you call the league figuring him out, I call he lost players to injuries. Bourne already out, then Stevenson, then Henry, then JuJu, also Boutte then our starting LT and LG. He got sacked ten times the last two games, plus a ton of hits and hurries. Zappe is still a good backup QB. 2022 we have reports players back Zappe want him to keep starting. As you said the offense was much better that year, even with all the bitching and complaining. 2023 we have the D attacking the offense per Jones. Meyers isn't on that team and I haven't heard any players attacking our OC. One thing in common was Mac Jones, who got worse as the season went along for 3rd straight year. Still can't believe after that Bills game, maybe his best game of his career, he just falls off a cliff. I thought that would be a turning point and it was, just in the wrong direction. Then reports from players about Mac Jones at Mayo's press conference, after cleaning out his locker. It's a shame because Mac Jones has enough talent to be a starter, he just let's mistakes effect his play. I mean, an 8% dip is kind of substantial, especially when he likely should have had more reps than the year before so you're more than likely talking 10-12%. That's also not accounting for targets either. He went from 70 targets to 48 in 1 less game. He had more targets and receptions this year despite only playing in 8 games. If neither your 1st round QB who took you to the playoffs the year before and your WR1 and likely the QBs favorite target in Jackobi Meyers are all not buying in, maybe it's not a system worth running? If Bourne wasn't the the WR1, who was? He's not a WR1 like Stephan Diggs, but on this team he was, sort of like Bello being the opening day starter for the Sox. He's not an ace (hopefully he can be), but on the Red Sox he's the number 1. I agree the time to go to Zappe was way too long. In the end, I think he's the better QB. I get the logic though of sticking with Mac. The upside is much greater and if you pull the plug, it's over. Neither guy is an NFL starter. You might have won more with Zappe, but it was a losing battle either way. I think Zappe is a fine backup and he had injuries, but he turned the ball over a lot too. Zappe - QBR 23.4% Rating - 68.7 9 interceptions in 10 games. He started in 6 games. Who says Meyers the actual WR1 didn't buy in? He had the best year of his career. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2024 14:42:35 GMT -5
I mean, an 8% dip is kind of substantial, especially when he likely should have had more reps than the year before so you're more than likely talking 10-12%. That's also not accounting for targets either. He went from 70 targets to 48 in 1 less game. He had more targets and receptions this year despite only playing in 8 games. If neither your 1st round QB who took you to the playoffs the year before and your WR1 and likely the QBs favorite target in Jackobi Meyers are all not buying in, maybe it's not a system worth running? If Bourne wasn't the the WR1, who was? He's not a WR1 like Stephan Diggs, but on this team he was, sort of like Bello being the opening day starter for the Sox. He's not an ace (hopefully he can be), but on the Red Sox he's the number 1. I agree the time to go to Zappe was way too long. In the end, I think he's the better QB. I get the logic though of sticking with Mac. The upside is much greater and if you pull the plug, it's over. Neither guy is an NFL starter. You might have won more with Zappe, but it was a losing battle either way. I think Zappe is a fine backup and he had injuries, but he turned the ball over a lot too. Zappe - QBR 23.4% Rating - 68.7 9 interceptions in 10 games. He started in 6 games. Who says Meyers the actual WR1 didn't buy in? He had the best year of his career. Meyers was the WR1 for that year and his comments were how the Patriots didn't unleash him makes me think he wasn't a fan either. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2024 22:08:33 GMT -5
WhY wAsTe DrAfT cApItAl On A kIcKeR?
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Post by philarhody on Feb 11, 2024 22:53:47 GMT -5
Mahomes is insanely good. That Chiefs’ receiving core was way worse than New Englands’ this season
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,861 
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Post by cdj on Feb 11, 2024 22:58:11 GMT -5
Mahomes is insanely good. That Chiefs’ receiving core was way worse than New Englands’ this season That’s a stretch but agreed on the insanely good part The patriots didn’t have a receiver half as good as Kelce. Rashee Rice can play too |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2024 23:03:28 GMT -5
Get a QB. Forget MHJ. Chiefs proved QB > elite roster with decent QB.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 11, 2024 23:39:19 GMT -5
Mahomes is the best QB I've every seen. He's clutch like Brady, but with mobility and a rocket for an arm. So if you feel that a certain QB is anything like him, go get him. Lots of QBs in the NFL, only one Mahomes. So who is that QB Patriots can take that's like Mahomes?
I think the 49ers show you a different path. Purdy isn't crazy talent, he's very smart and makes the right plays with a loaded roster. Kicker makes extra point, they likely win. Punt doesn't hit 49ers player they also likely win. So Mahomes got lucky because his offense talent outside of Kelce is the worst of his career.
What Patriots don't need is another bust like Mac Jones over a stud WR.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 12, 2024 1:18:08 GMT -5
Mahomes is the best QB I've every seen. He's clutch like Brady, but with mobility and a rocket for an arm. So if you feel that a certain QB is anything like him, go get him. Lots of QBs in the NFL, only one Mahomes. So who is that QB Patriots can take that's like Mahomes? I think the 49ers show you a different path. Purdy isn't crazy talent, he's very smart and makes the right plays with a loaded roster. Kicker makes extra point, they likely win. Punt doesn't hit 49ers player they also likely win. So Mahomes got lucky because his offense talent outside of Kelce is the worst of his career. What Patriots don't need is another bust like Mac Jones over a stud WR. 49ers got this far, and failed before with a mediocre QB. Last few winners: 24 - Mahomes - HoF 23 - Mahomes - HoF 22 - Stafford- HoF 21 - Brady - HoF 20 - Mahomes - HoF 19 - Brady - HoF 18 - Foles - Mediocre (play Butler, then likely Brady) 17 - Brady - HoF 16 - Manning - HoF (albeit that was a very mediocre version of him) 15 - Brady - HoF 14 - Wilson - HoF So going on a decade and only 1 team with a truly mediocre QB and another with a HoF QB who was at the end of his run. I think if the kicker makes the XP the 49ers lose in regulation. Chiefs At the end had their way with the 49ers. I also wonder how far the 49ers really would have gotten if the NFC wasn't so devoid of QB play. I think the Bills could have beaten them. Same with the Ravens. But yes, if you really don't have faith in any of these QBs, take the WR, but you won't get anywhere with him either. Teams don't win. Only elite QBs do. |
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