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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 4, 2024 23:27:33 GMT -5
JJ has a fan in Joel Klatt:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 0:45:22 GMT -5
Experience at QB is a plus, it's funny what you see as a negative, I see as a positive. Take Mac Jones, his lack of experience in College is one of the biggest problems he's had in NFL. Trying to deal with crap he's never faced before in NFL is crazy hard. It's why I value 3 years starting experience. Next up is multiple years of doing extremely well. That's where Daniels scares the heck out of me. Frankly he's the player where age, experience and talent might have made him seem much better than he is. Nix and Penix did crazy well for two straight years. They both did better in big games against elite talent. I'm also really big on where players rank end of season, versus riser based off nothing but teams being stupid. QBs rise every draft like Crazy. Anyone close to first round grade gets hyped as possible high pick. QBs only drop on draft day, because the so called experts are crazy and don't actually grade them like teams do. Daniels winning Heisman has people forgetting his weaknesses. McCarthy winning a Championship has people looking at anything positive to try and support a high first round grade. The he didn't do much in a bunch of games, but look at a few 3rd down plays he made each game. Look at his high school record. No mention of four of his weapons balling out for last two years looking way better away from that program than their tape. His #2 WR just had a amazing combine, he looked like a low level possession WR on the tape I watched. His #1 WR stock has gone through the roof from senior bowl to combine. If McCarthy is so good, why does it seem like he makes his weapons look bad, not good? Why didn't that team open things up more against good teams? Everyone has their own way of ranking people and like I've said before I'd draft all seven of my top QBs, it's just where I'd draft them. Nevermind the top of this draft being loaded with elite players at positions of need complicates things. This might be the best WR class in a long time. This draft has maybe the best TE prospect in a long time. My theory is that younger probably means more potential and a lower floor whereas the opposite for older guys. I would think it's easier to look good against the field if you have 3-4 years on the competition when guys are still growing like when you look at a prospect coming up through the Red Sox system. It's a lot less impressive when a 24 year old crushes it in A ball vs a 20 year old, but just for fun I went through the top QBs and how old they were when they were drafted. Patrick Mahomes - 22 Josh Allen - 21 Jalen Hurts - 22 Justin Herbert - 22 Joe Burrow - 23 Dak Prescot - 23 Tua Tagovailoa - 22 Trevor Lawrence - 22 CJ Stroud - 22 Lamar Jackson - 21 So it seems like 22 is the sweet spot for a successful QB. Edit: I did this kind of quick. It's possible some of those guys were younger and turned in age for the NFL season. So if Williams, Maye and McCarthy went back to college and were a year older you would like them less? I love experience for QB prospects, it's a plus for me with Daniels, Penix, Nix and Rattler. Tom Brady sat for a year and didn't start till age 24. He still didn't hit his peak till years later. He might not be the GOAT if asked to start at age 21-23. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 8:10:32 GMT -5
My theory is that younger probably means more potential and a lower floor whereas the opposite for older guys. I would think it's easier to look good against the field if you have 3-4 years on the competition when guys are still growing like when you look at a prospect coming up through the Red Sox system. It's a lot less impressive when a 24 year old crushes it in A ball vs a 20 year old, but just for fun I went through the top QBs and how old they were when they were drafted. Patrick Mahomes - 22 Josh Allen - 21 Jalen Hurts - 22 Justin Herbert - 22 Joe Burrow - 23 Dak Prescot - 23 Tua Tagovailoa - 22 Trevor Lawrence - 22 CJ Stroud - 22 Lamar Jackson - 21 So it seems like 22 is the sweet spot for a successful QB. Edit: I did this kind of quick. It's possible some of those guys were younger and turned in age for the NFL season. So if Williams, Maye and McCarthy went back to college and were a year older you would like them less? I love experience for QB prospects, it's a plus for me with Daniels, Penix, Nix and Rattler. Tom Brady sat for a year and didn't start till age 24. He still didn't hit his peak till years later. He might not be the GOAT if asked to start at age 21-23. No, but I think that's a bit different. Bo Nix wasn't good until 2022 and that was years 4 and 5. He would have been a day 2 guy had he declared after 2022. Jayden Daniels just shot up the draft board this year. Age has to be a factor because you're bigger and stronger than everyone else. Penix gets somewhat of a pass because he's been an injured mess, but that's also another, bigger red flag. If those guys re-entered and repeated their success or improved upon it then it wouldn't change all that much. Brady was also pick 199 and just everything about him was just magical. I would still take Daniels, just highlighting the concern. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 8:31:55 GMT -5
Anecdotal, but only sharing his opinions since he played the position. Scott Zolak seems to be out on Drake Maye and JJ McCarthy. Says JJ McCarthy reminds him too much of Mac Jones. He's high on Daniels and Penix. I forget his feelings on Bo Nix. Not saying because he played the position he's a great talent evaluator, just interesting.
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Post by adamgregory81 on Mar 5, 2024 8:43:11 GMT -5
I’m all in on JJ if they can trade back and get him. Mac Jones is a lazy comparison (McCarthy is far more athletic, played far more, in bigger games and overall, played in a far more conservative system.)
I don’t like the helium behind him because I think it’s a mistake to take a QB at 3 generally, and had really hoped that this was a guy they could take in the 15-20 range while trading down to collect draft capital. (They need massive upgrades on the O line before investing much of anything into the QB room.)
Full disclosure - I’m a UMich grad (I’m aware of my biases).
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 5, 2024 10:31:24 GMT -5
An informative stat from Mike Sando at The Athletic for those wondering if Russ would be a good get for 2024 Patriots: |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 5, 2024 11:15:19 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5314966/2024/03/05/nfl-mock-draft-2024-jayden-daniels-quarterbacks/Brugler Mock Post-Combine ($) has Pats trading out of #3 Projected trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to the Patriots for No. 3 Falcons take Daniels, Pats take Alt at 8 and trade #68 for Fields. McCarthy goes 7 to the Vikings. Nix and Penix both make it to the 2nd round. I don't hate it if they really aren't sold on Daniels. This is a deep draft in all the areas the Pats have biggest needs. But I'm also depressed after the Giolito news and ready to punt on both the Red Sox and Patriots seasons right now.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 11:21:56 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5314966/2024/03/05/nfl-mock-draft-2024-jayden-daniels-quarterbacks/Brugler Mock Post-Combine ($) has Pats trading out of #3 Projected trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to the Patriots for No. 3 Falcons take Daniels, Pats take Alt at 8 and trade #68 for Fields. McCarthy goes 7 to the Vikings. Nix and Penix both make it to the 2nd round. I don't hate it if they really aren't sold on Daniels. This is a deep draft in all the areas the Pats have biggest needs. But I'm also depressed after the Giolito news and ready to punt on both the Red Sox and Patriots seasons right now. Not a fan of Fields. I would rather get some elite guys and hope Rattler is there in the 3rd round and hope he develops. At this point I might just keep Mac Jones for one more season and see if a new and improved offense helps him if they're not taking a day 1 QB. I want to reiterate. I'm not a fan of Mac Jones. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 5, 2024 11:58:17 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5314966/2024/03/05/nfl-mock-draft-2024-jayden-daniels-quarterbacks/Brugler Mock Post-Combine ($) has Pats trading out of #3 Projected trade: Falcons send No. 8, No. 43 and a 2025 first-round pick to the Patriots for No. 3 Falcons take Daniels, Pats take Alt at 8 and trade #68 for Fields. McCarthy goes 7 to the Vikings. Nix and Penix both make it to the 2nd round. I don't hate it if they really aren't sold on Daniels. This is a deep draft in all the areas the Pats have biggest needs. But I'm also depressed after the Giolito news and ready to punt on both the Red Sox and Patriots seasons right now. Not a fan of Fields. I would rather get some elite guys and hope Rattler is there in the 3rd round and hope he develops. At this point I might just keep Mac Jones for one more season and see if a new and improved offense helps him if they're not taking a day 1 QB. I want to reiterate. I'm not a fan of Mac Jones. I'm not sure there's a scenario where you can like Fields but not like Daniels. They are NOT the same, but a median outcome for Daniels has to look similar to peak Fields, but you have to pay Fields starting next year. The only advantage is being able to bolster other areas for "Free" and be at the lower end of QB pay for the next few years (instead of trying to chase the FA market in a thin OL/WR class). If they got Fields for a 3rd and Penix in the 2nd, and had better swings at OL and WR, again and a first next year for their troubles, I can squint and see a plan. Not sure the Krafts are up for it. I'd start Tannehill or Brissett or Minshew over Mac. I'd start the snow shoveler over Mac, because the optics of bringing someone back who had both bad skills and bad attitude is awful. But "we'll get a QB next year" doesn't make any sense because we might not suck enough to get a high pick or the QBs next year might not end up as deep as this years', and FA is no way to get a QB anyway. I really change my mind every day about what's the best path. Daniels! Hope Maye Falls! Get McCarthy over cost! It really does sound like McCarthy might be in play starting at 5 (for a race to trade up), so is 3 an Overpay if that's who they really like? |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 12:33:52 GMT -5
So if Williams, Maye and McCarthy went back to college and were a year older you would like them less? I love experience for QB prospects, it's a plus for me with Daniels, Penix, Nix and Rattler. Tom Brady sat for a year and didn't start till age 24. He still didn't hit his peak till years later. He might not be the GOAT if asked to start at age 21-23. No, but I think that's a bit different. Bo Nix wasn't good until 2022 and that was years 4 and 5. He would have been a day 2 guy had he declared after 2022. Jayden Daniels just shot up the draft board this year. Age has to be a factor because you're bigger and stronger than everyone else. Penix gets somewhat of a pass because he's been an injured mess, but that's also another, bigger red flag. If those guys re-entered and repeated their success or improved upon it then it wouldn't change all that much. Brady was also pick 199 and just everything about him was just magical. I would still take Daniels, just highlighting the concern. So Nix breaking out in year 4 is an issue, but Daniels in year 5 isn't? Okay, that makes perfect sense. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 5, 2024 12:35:16 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 12:36:14 GMT -5
It's franchise tag day, Patriots have made offers to both Onwenu and Dugger. Nevermind Bourne and Henry. Reports Dugger 4 years 54 million.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 12:38:26 GMT -5
Not a fan of Fields. I would rather get some elite guys and hope Rattler is there in the 3rd round and hope he develops. At this point I might just keep Mac Jones for one more season and see if a new and improved offense helps him if they're not taking a day 1 QB. I want to reiterate. I'm not a fan of Mac Jones. I'm not sure there's a scenario where you can like Fields but not like Daniels. They are NOT the same, but a median outcome for Daniels has to look similar to peak Fields, but you have to pay Fields starting next year. The only advantage is being able to bolster other areas for "Free" and be at the lower end of QB pay for the next few years (instead of trying to chase the FA market in a thin OL/WR class). If they got Fields for a 3rd and Penix in the 2nd, and had better swings at OL and WR, again and a first next year for their troubles, I can squint and see a plan. Not sure the Krafts are up for it. I'd start Tannehill or Brissett or Minshew over Mac. I'd start the snow shoveler over Mac, because the optics of bringing someone back who had both bad skills and bad attitude is awful. But "we'll get a QB next year" doesn't make any sense because we might not suck enough to get a high pick or the QBs next year might not end up as deep as this years', and FA is no way to get a QB anyway. I really change my mind every day about what's the best path. Daniels! Hope Maye Falls! Get McCarthy over cost! It really does sound like McCarthy might be in play starting at 5 (for a race to trade up), so is 3 an Overpay if that's who they really like? I guess my thought on it is, "we know what Fields is" rather than there's potential for more, but can settle for Fields. Also, the money is going to be easier to give Daniels help than Fields. I do recognize that Fields is a solid comp, but really hoping he's better. I am hoping they take two swings at QB and agree the optics of Mac coming back would be pretty bad. My understanding of next year's class is that it will be awful for QB so the Patriots either need to get one now or potentially wait until the year after. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 12:42:42 GMT -5
No, but I think that's a bit different. Bo Nix wasn't good until 2022 and that was years 4 and 5. He would have been a day 2 guy had he declared after 2022. Jayden Daniels just shot up the draft board this year. Age has to be a factor because you're bigger and stronger than everyone else. Penix gets somewhat of a pass because he's been an injured mess, but that's also another, bigger red flag. If those guys re-entered and repeated their success or improved upon it then it wouldn't change all that much. Brady was also pick 199 and just everything about him was just magical. I would still take Daniels, just highlighting the concern. So Nix breaking out in year 4 is an issue, but Daniels in year 5 isn't? Okay, that makes perfect sense. Daniels is younger and has more athleticism, but it is a concern. Never said it wasn't. Just about every quality starting QB playing today was drafted at 21 or 22 outside of like 2 guys at 23. That makes me nervous. Honestly, I can be talked out of Daniels more and more in favor of JJ McCarthy who I'm warming up to. My dream scenario is Maye falls to them or they trade up to Caleb. It's not that age = no. It's just a factor. |
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
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Post by badfishnbc on Mar 5, 2024 12:55:15 GMT -5
An informative stat from Mike Sando at The Athletic for those wondering if Russ would be a good get for 2024 Patriots: The only way I'm ok with bringing in Russ is if he takes the veterans minimum. We need to treat that dude like Bret Bielema for that relationship to work. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 13:02:48 GMT -5
So Nix breaking out in year 4 is an issue, but Daniels in year 5 isn't? Okay, that makes perfect sense. Daniels is younger and has more athleticism, but it is a concern. Never said it wasn't. Just about every quality starting QB playing today was drafted at 21 or 22 outside of like 2 guys at 23. That makes me nervous. Honestly, I can be talked out of Daniels more and more in favor of JJ McCarthy who I'm warming up to. My dream scenario is Maye falls to them or they trade up to Caleb. It's not that age = no. It's just a factor. Penix was the youngest to have his first great year, Nix was the same age as Daniels. You say you don't hold it against QBs coming back, but you are doing that. Those guys are only older because they went back to school and had a 2nd consecutive great year, Daniels declared for draft after only one. It's funny age is likely the biggest worry for Daniels of those 3 players. Given it took him longer to have a great year, doesn't have two and his body is the biggest worry. A player is a lot less likely to bulk up meaningfully at age 23. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 13:33:19 GMT -5
Daniels is younger and has more athleticism, but it is a concern. Never said it wasn't. Just about every quality starting QB playing today was drafted at 21 or 22 outside of like 2 guys at 23. That makes me nervous. Honestly, I can be talked out of Daniels more and more in favor of JJ McCarthy who I'm warming up to. My dream scenario is Maye falls to them or they trade up to Caleb. It's not that age = no. It's just a factor. Penix was the youngest to have his first great year, Nix was the same age as Daniels. You say you don't hold it against QBs coming back, but you are doing that. Those guys are only older because they went back to school and had a 2nd consecutive great year, Daniels declared for draft after only one. It's funny age is likely the biggest worry for Daniels of those 3 players. Given it took him longer to have a great year, doesn't have two and his body is the biggest worry. A player is a lot less likely to bulk up meaningfully at age 23. I put an exception for Penix because of injuries, but that just gives him a different, bigger red flag. Nix was considered a day 2 guy last year coming out and continued his success, but he's old. Daniels has a combination of tools that should translate to the NFL, but his size and age are concerning to me. I do acknowledge that Daniels could have been a flash in the pan. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 14:24:14 GMT -5
If we could get Penix with our 3rd round pick, that's easily the best value in the draft at QB. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 5, 2024 14:26:00 GMT -5
Interesting. Dugger gets the rare transition tag. 4m less than franchise. Right to match.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 5, 2024 14:57:29 GMT -5
Hopefully an extension with Onwenu is imminent then
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 5, 2024 14:58:29 GMT -5
Interesting. Dugger gets the rare transition tag. 4m less than franchise. Right to match. So, Patriots have the right to match, but if they don't, they won't get draft compensation. This also prevents them from using the franchise tag as well. Really curious as to the logic in using this tag on Dugger and leaving Onwenu unprotected. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 5, 2024 15:06:25 GMT -5
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Mar 5, 2024 16:02:58 GMT -5
Maybe we dont need TEs. nfltraderumors.co/texans-re-signing-te-dalton-schultz-to-three-year-36m-deal/Schultz was the one free agent TE better or comparable to Henry. If they do not resign Henry then what? Noah Fant? Gerald Everett? Colby Parkinson? Pharoh Brown??? Not a strong group. This is also not a good draft for TEs. Bowers is terrific but after that it is pretty bleak. Ja'Tavion Sanders is a poor blocker, his receiving numbers were fairly good, but his combine was uninspiring (9th among TEs). Sinnott seems ok across the board. He won't be a star but could be an ok #2. Maybe convert Johnny Wilson to TE. He is 6'7 237 a fairly good receiver and a pretty good blocker (although I do wonder if he has been blocking CBs or Safeties and LBers). He would need to add some weight but he has the frame to do so. |
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Post by philarhody on Mar 5, 2024 23:38:37 GMT -5
I just watched Maye against Virginia, when undefeated UNC was upset at home by their 1-5 rival. This is one of the games all the naysayers point to as Maye continues to slide a bit in public perception.
I gotta say, I love me some Drake Maye. He can throw with touch or throw a javelin 45 yards on a dime. He is extremely elusive for his size. And it looks like he is making good pre snap reads and works through his progressions when the first ain’t there. Furthermore, he shared his NIL money with his offensive line and is oozing confidence and charisma.
If the rumors are true, and Washington is going with Daniels, New England has to take Maye. It has the potential to be historic.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Mar 5, 2024 23:54:38 GMT -5
Raiders apparently itching to trade into the top 3
Imagine they end up with Baker (I’d say 10% chance). Do we trade 3 to the Raiders for 13 and a haul? Or do we pick MHJR?
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