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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 12:54:23 GMT -5
The problem with front-loading contracts is if a player has a good year or two -- a desired outcome -- he now seems (perhaps feels) "underpaid." Media advocate on his behalf, touting how underpaid he is. We went through this with Stephon Gilmore, resulting in a hold-in. We had a similar situation playout with Tommy after he got that 30M bonus -- media pointed to his base salary versus his accomplishments.
The gain with front-loading a contract is nil. Pay Player A:
20 + 15 + 10 0r 10 + 15 + 20 & the cap math is exactly the same (assuming carryover which NE always does).
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867 
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Post by cdj on Mar 17, 2024 13:15:32 GMT -5
You really need to change the direction and perception of this team if you want free agents to sign here no? That's why you spend money and get better, it's the NFL you should be trying to make the playoffs every year. One year deals free up money next year, the cap goes up a good amount every year and you can do so many things that cap space isn't like any other sport. I don't mind rolling some cap space over, it shouldn't be anywhere near what we currently have. If that's the plan, they should have front loaded deals for Onwenu, not back loaded them! Yeah it sucks that this free agent class was more defense than offense, but still a bunch of good pieces we can sign, most have been mentioned already. Next up low cost trades for guys teams just want to dump, a lot of that happens on draft day after replacements are drafted. At WR were at the point I'm looking at Chase Claypool. I was gonna mention Claypool too lol Obviously not ideal but he has a ton of physical talent. He has to know he’s on his last chance |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 13:35:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure "last chance" is a thing that registers with knuckleheads. They gonna do them until they can't no more.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 13:37:56 GMT -5
In case you missed it (Dolphins might be in the WR market?):
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Mar 17, 2024 13:58:28 GMT -5
Looking ahead... after the draft and we move into roster cuts and pre-season injuries, it'll be good to have ample $$$ to pounce on players if they'll fill a need we didn't address during the draft or via a prior trade.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 15:14:29 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 17, 2024 15:24:21 GMT -5
They are smart to not be investing money in 30 something free agents, etc. But I don’t disagree with you overall. Let’s see what they do tho. I mentioned Sneed the other day. If they trade for and sign a top young corner like him or another player in that type of spot that’s a good use of money. Extend Barmore, etc. But cap space does roll over so it’s not ideal to just waste it What about Sneed wants you trading draft picks and handing him a massive contract? PFF doesn't rank him crazy high and Football Refrence shows he had one good year. Isn't it a huge Red Flag the Chiefs are so willing to trade him? If you wanted to do that, why not trade for Higgins? It’s 27, has good size and is a legit number 1 corner who here Wouri hopefully be a number 2 while our number 1 is on a rookie deal. The Chiefs are in a cap situation and can’t keep paying everyone. That’s why they’d trade him. He was a huge piece of that defense last year. I’m not a Higgins fan as a number 1 WR. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 17, 2024 15:29:20 GMT -5
Osborn is a decent WR, he’ll presumably get a bigger opportunity here than he did last season where he had to compete with JJ/Addison/Hockenson for targets
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 16:09:22 GMT -5
Here's a little JJ love:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 17, 2024 16:59:28 GMT -5
You really need to change the direction and perception of this team if you want free agents to sign here no? That's why you spend money and get better, it's the NFL you should be trying to make the playoffs every year. One year deals free up money next year, the cap goes up a good amount every year and you can do so many things that cap space isn't like any other sport. I don't mind rolling some cap space over, it shouldn't be anywhere near what we currently have. If that's the plan, they should have front loaded deals for Onwenu, not back loaded them! Yeah it sucks that this free agent class was more defense than offense, but still a bunch of good pieces we can sign, most have been mentioned already. Next up low cost trades for guys teams just want to dump, a lot of that happens on draft day after replacements are drafted. At WR were at the point I'm looking at Chase Claypool. I was gonna mention Claypool too lol Obviously not ideal but he has a ton of physical talent. He has to know he’s on his last chance It's a tiny one year deal with a chance to make the team. He sucks he's gone, any crap from him I cut him that day. Funny thing is, he was a model player at Notre Dame, then he got with the Steelers. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 17, 2024 17:08:41 GMT -5
What about Sneed wants you trading draft picks and handing him a massive contract? PFF doesn't rank him crazy high and Football Refrence shows he had one good year. Isn't it a huge Red Flag the Chiefs are so willing to trade him? If you wanted to do that, why not trade for Higgins? It’s 27, has good size and is a legit number 1 corner who here Wouri hopefully be a number 2 while our number 1 is on a rookie deal. The Chiefs are in a cap situation and can’t keep paying everyone. That’s why they’d trade him. He was a huge piece of that defense last year. I’m not a Higgins fan as a number 1 WR. I'm not a huge Higgins fan either, I just don't think a rebuilding team should be trading picks to sign guys to large market contracts when it's not close to a top need. He's also been very up and down over the last 4 years. Is his big improvement last year KC dominant D and pass rush? Two years before this year, 7 TDs and passing rating allowed 91.9 and 84.2. PFF rates him as a good not great player. I certainly wouldn't mind him, just not on a massive deal, while trading high draft picks. Many other good starting level CBs available that will cost much less and no draft picks. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 17:15:10 GMT -5
It’s 27, has good size and is a legit number 1 corner who here Wouri hopefully be a number 2 while our number 1 is on a rookie deal. The Chiefs are in a cap situation and can’t keep paying everyone. That’s why they’d trade him. He was a huge piece of that defense last year. I’m not a Higgins fan as a number 1 WR. I'm not a huge Higgins fan either, I just don't think a ... team should be trading picks to sign guys to large market contracts when it's not close to a top need. He's also been very up and down over the last 4 years. Is his big improvement last year KC dominant D and pass rush? Two years before this year, 7 TDs and passing rating allowed 91.9 and 84.2. PFF rates him as a good not great player. I certainly wouldn't mind him, just not on a massive deal, while trading high draft picks. Many other good starting level CBs available that will cost much less and no draft picks. Agreed. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 17, 2024 17:16:51 GMT -5
Osborn is a decent WR, he’ll presumably get a bigger opportunity here than he did last season where he had to compete with JJ/Addison/Hockenson for targets Went and watched the tape. Decent player, good hands, but doesn't get much separation. Raises our floor and is a legit #3/#4, so you can't complain given what we have. Just most of his big plays are teams leaving him wide open because they are focusing on the Vikings top guys. He can play some X, but he's not close to a true X WR. Viking played him all over the place. I'm just so confused given our GM talked about big explosive plays and that's not Osborn. Much more of a move the chains type WR. Guess we're waiting to the draft. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 17, 2024 17:27:18 GMT -5
Osborn is a decent WR, he’ll presumably get a bigger opportunity here than he did last season where he had to compete with JJ/Addison/Hockenson for targets Went and watched the tape. Decent player, good hands, but doesn't get much separation. Raises our floor and is a legit #3/#4, so you can't complain given what we have. Just most of his big plays are teams leaving him wide open because they are focusing on the Vikings top guys. He can play some X, but he's not close to a true X WR. Viking played him all over the place. I'm just so confused given our GM talked about big explosive plays and that's not Osborn. Much more of a move the chains type WR. Guess we're waiting to the draft. I think that 2nd rounder is earmarked for a playmaking WR at this point (provided the plan is QB at 3) |
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Post by rasimon on Mar 17, 2024 17:46:27 GMT -5
I dont really understand what the Pats are doing. Onwenu and Henry I get. They were losing both OTs and both TEs and, after Schultz resigned, they were arguably the best free agents at their positions. But after those two, I don't get it. You can make a reasonable argument for just about any one of their signings in isolation, but taken as a whole, they needed to upgrade particularly on offense, they had money to do so, and they have really not done that. They seem to be acting as though they are competitive right now and they just need to fill in some depth pieces. Now everyone is talking about building through the draft, but they don't have a plethora of extra draft picks. They have one good pick. Im sure (or hope) management has some strategy, I just dont get it.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 17, 2024 17:53:54 GMT -5
1/4 for Osborn
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 17:59:19 GMT -5
Dave with a 6 minute video explaining his JJ love: |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 18:19:32 GMT -5
Joel Klatt lists & discusses his Top 5 QBs (PLUS: Bo Nix love):
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 17, 2024 20:13:44 GMT -5
A short but thorough scouting report on the latest WR signing:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 2:25:16 GMT -5
The problem with front-loading contracts is if a player has a good year or two -- a desired outcome -- he now seems (perhaps feels) "underpaid." Media advocate on his behalf, touting how underpaid he is. We went through this with Stephon Gilmore, resulting in a hold-in. We had a similar situation playout with Tommy after he got that 30M bonus -- media pointed to his base salary versus his accomplishments. The gain with front-loading a contract is nil. Pay Player A: 20 + 15 + 10 0r 10 + 15 + 20 & the cap math is exactly the same (assuming carryover which NE always does). I think you missed the point. Almost any contract with a big signing bonus is front loaded cash wise, I'm talking front loading a contract cap it wise, not cash. Example Onwenu Cap hit 10.9, 21.0 and 25.0 million. Cash per year 26 million, 13.5 and 17.5 million. Fairly standard contract, most teams do that because teams always want more cap space. Why so many players get released in NFL. I don't see the point if you aren't going to spend money this year. Compared to something like cap hits of 18, 18 and 18. I probably shouldn't have said front loading, it's more not back loading contracts cap hit wise. Tom Brady might be the worst example ever BTW. The guy most years was underpaid by NFL terms, 30 million was nothing for top QBs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 2:33:48 GMT -5
Yeah you have to keep watching because there's so few plays in big games, that watching his tape multiple times trying to pick out every little thing is the only way you get top 10 pick. I like the guy, he has good upside, I just can't remember another QB prospect where people keep saying this stuff. Gotta watch those 8 pass attempts against Penn State 8 times to see the magic that is McCarthy. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2024 6:18:38 GMT -5
I dont really understand what the Pats are doing. Onwenu and Henry I get. They were losing both OTs and both TEs and, after Schultz resigned, they were arguably the best free agents at their positions. But after those two, I don't get it. You can make a reasonable argument for just about any one of their signings in isolation, but taken as a whole, they needed to upgrade particularly on offense, they had money to do so, and they have really not done that. They seem to be acting as though they are competitive right now and they just need to fill in some depth pieces. Now everyone is talking about building through the draft, but they don't have a plethora of extra draft picks. They have one good pick. Im sure (or hope) management has some strategy, I just dont get it. I will say, I think the Gibson signing is really good. A real all around 3rd down back. Zeke was solid there last year and he’s a true 3 down back but his receiving isn’t as good as Gibson even if it’s very good. That being said; I’d still take Zeke back on a similar contract to last year. Stevenson, Zeke and Gibson would be a very nice backfield and not expensive. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 18, 2024 6:57:03 GMT -5
How would #2 be more likely? Washington traded Howell for very little. I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? EDIT - The counterargument is that they might be fine with ANY of the QBs (even McCarthy) and know they can, at least, get up to #4. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 18, 2024 7:02:41 GMT -5
I have a dumb question regarding the cap hits? Can they go down or be flat?
- Don't base salaries HAVE to increase?
- Signing bonus will always be straight pro-ration
- Roster Bonuses can be NLTBE in the 1st year (based on previous year's Active Games). But they're based on 17 Games Active in subsequent years (until they start playing the next season where their hits can go up or down based on activity).
- A lot of other incentives are typically NLTBE until actually earned.
Just don't know enough to know if Cap Hits are ever flat or decreasing.
EDIT - Just saw Bourne's deal and his year 2 and 3 salaries are definitely flat so they don't HAVE to decrease.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 18, 2024 7:22:43 GMT -5
How would #2 be more likely? Washington traded Howell for very little. I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? EDIT - The counterargument is that they might be fine with ANY of the QBs (even McCarthy) and know they can, at least, get up to #4. Guess it all depends on how they evaluate Daniels and Maye- it’s a little bit different than the Pats situation in that they’ll have their pick between them. The Pats will be left with only one of them. So in theory it should be easier for the commanders to pick a QB because they only have to believe in one of the two guys. The Pats have to believe in the guy left remaining, they have less control on the situation |
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