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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 7:28:27 GMT -5
How would #2 be more likely? Washington traded Howell for very little. I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? If Maye is gone I'll consider anything, assuming Williams goes #1 like everyone thinks. I think Washington takes Maye, as I've said a few times now. So you are right, I have been advocating the Patriots consider different things like maybe a QB not in the 1st. That's because we have pick 3 and not pick #2. If Mayes there at #3, they should take him. Add in Washington traded a young first year starter at QB that showed promise for very little. That screams we are taking a QB at #2. Maybe I'm wrong |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 7:35:24 GMT -5
I have a dumb question regarding the cap hits? Can they go down or be flat? - Don't base salaries HAVE to increase? - Signing bonus will always be straight pro-ration - Roster Bonuses can be NLTBE in the 1st year (based on previous year's Active Games). But they're based on 17 Games Active in subsequent years (until they start playing the next season where their hits can go up or down based on activity). - A lot of other incentives are typically NLTBE until actually earned. Just don't know enough to know if Cap Hits are ever flat or decreasing. Yes they can. |
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Post by texs31 on Mar 18, 2024 7:36:20 GMT -5
I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? If Maye is gone I'll consider anything, assuming Williams goes #1 like everyone thinks. I think Washington takes Maye, as I've said a few times now. So you are right, I have been advocating the Patriots consider different things like maybe a QB not in the 1st. That's because we have pick 3 and not pick #2. If Mayes there at #3, they should take him. Add in Washington traded a young first year starter at QB that showed promise for very little. That screams we are taking a QB at #2. Maybe I'm wrong TBC - I'm more in line with YOUR thinking. Just trying to understand why Jeremiah might think otherwise. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 7:52:37 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2024 8:06:05 GMT -5
How would #2 be more likely? Washington traded Howell for very little. I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? EDIT - The counterargument is that they might be fine with ANY of the QBs (even McCarthy) and know they can, at least, get up to #4. Being at 2 vs 3 and knowing which QB you’ll get is a big difference. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2024 8:11:30 GMT -5
I have a dumb question regarding the cap hits? Can they go down or be flat? - Don't base salaries HAVE to increase? - Signing bonus will always be straight pro-ration - Roster Bonuses can be NLTBE in the 1st year (based on previous year's Active Games). But they're based on 17 Games Active in subsequent years (until they start playing the next season where their hits can go up or down based on activity). - A lot of other incentives are typically NLTBE until actually earned. Just don't know enough to know if Cap Hits are ever flat or decreasing. EDIT - Just saw Bourne's deal and his year 2 and 3 salaries are definitely flat so they don't HAVE to decrease. Base salaries don’t need to increase. Signing bonuses don’t even NEED to be prorated over the contract (up to 5 years max), but it’d be pointless not to and the all are. If you weren’t going to do that, then you’d just make it the first year salary guaranteed. But in short cap hits don’t have to always increase. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2024 8:13:15 GMT -5
Judon salary breakdown.  |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 18, 2024 9:42:38 GMT -5
I don't know if Jeremiah had sources on this or if he's just trying to connect some dots (or just have a take). He's probably thinking #2 is the only way to get the guy they want. I'd also point out that Washington is in the exact same boat as NE and you are advocating the Pats consider taking a QB AFTER the 1st. So if it's okay for NE to do it, why wouldn't Washington be willing/interested? EDIT - The counterargument is that they might be fine with ANY of the QBs (even McCarthy) and know they can, at least, get up to #4. Being at 2 vs 3 and knowing which QB you’ll get is a big difference. They just had to beat the Broncos. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867 
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Post by cdj on Mar 18, 2024 9:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Mar 18, 2024 10:26:48 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 10:34:05 GMT -5
Why is that even news? When was the last time a top 3 pick was traded at the combine? Teams are in the middle of collecting information on prospects and setting their draft boards.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 10:55:49 GMT -5
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 18, 2024 11:45:00 GMT -5
The problem with front-loading contracts is if a player has a good year or two -- a desired outcome -- he now seems (perhaps feels) "underpaid." Media advocate on his behalf, touting how underpaid he is. We went through this with Stephon Gilmore, resulting in a hold-in. We had a similar situation playout with Tommy after he got that 30M bonus -- media pointed to his base salary versus his accomplishments. The gain with front-loading a contract is nil. Pay Player A: 20 + 15 + 10 0r 10 + 15 + 20 & the cap math is exactly the same (assuming carryover which NE always does). I think you missed the point. Almost any contract with a big signing bonus is front loaded cash wise, I'm talking front loading a contract cap (sic) wise, not cash. Example Onwenu Cap hit 10.9, 21.0 and 25.0 million. Cash per year 26 million, 13.5 and 17.5 million. Fairly standard contract, most teams do that because teams always want more cap space. Why so many players get released in NFL. I don't see the point if you aren't going to spend money this year. Compared to something like cap hits of 18, 18 and 18. I probably shouldn't have said front loading, it's more not back loading contracts cap hit wise. Tom Brady might be the worst example ever BTW. The guy most years was underpaid by NFL terms, 30 million was nothing for top QBs. I'll repeat: there is zero advantage to shifting cap charges to early years versus later years. It is math; it is not opinion. It is irrefutable. The only caveat being the unused salary cap space must rollover (Patriots have always done this). The mention of Tom Brady's contract situation* was only intended to demonstrate how it caught the media's attention, how they advocated for him being "underpaid," a possible outcome if a team "frontloads" a contract. Although the downside might be somewhat overstated, in my eyes it is sufficient reason not to do it because there is ZERO benefit to be gained. * I might have cited Richard Seymore's advocacy by a certain beat reporter (who now pollutes the airwaves from 2-6) writing multiple times how unfair it was the player wasn't able to talk about his injuries (#MeanieBill) -- the point was the same: it's low-hanging fruit for media to latch onto. |
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cdj
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Posts: 15,867
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Post by cdj on Mar 18, 2024 12:05:27 GMT -5
Teams and agents are throwing so much smoke out there it’s hard to trust any reporting on the draft, like you said you don’t really know how teams actually view these guys until they’re picking |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 18, 2024 13:16:13 GMT -5
This year there are more teams with clear needs at QB last year the three teams in the top 5 clearly needing QBs ended up in fact selecting their QBs. What we really don’t know is who each of these teams prefer at QB other than the Bears I guess.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 18, 2024 13:32:18 GMT -5
Is MHJ NOT going to be 1st WR taken? Multiple analysts don't see it as a slam dunk:
Controversial Chris says:
Non-controversial Mel & Field also discuss:
The Athletic's Dane Brugler says his intel is divided:
Daniel Jeremiah says preference matters:
Lance likes Nabors best:
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 13:36:22 GMT -5
I think you missed the point. Almost any contract with a big signing bonus is front loaded cash wise, I'm talking front loading a contract cap (sic) wise, not cash. Example Onwenu Cap hit 10.9, 21.0 and 25.0 million. Cash per year 26 million, 13.5 and 17.5 million. Fairly standard contract, most teams do that because teams always want more cap space. Why so many players get released in NFL. I don't see the point if you aren't going to spend money this year. Compared to something like cap hits of 18, 18 and 18. I probably shouldn't have said front loading, it's more not back loading contracts cap hit wise. Tom Brady might be the worst example ever BTW. The guy most years was underpaid by NFL terms, 30 million was nothing for top QBs. I'll repeat: there is zero advantage to shifting cap charges to early years versus later years. It is math; it is not opinion. It is irrefutable. The only caveat being the unused salary cap space must rollover (Patriots have always done this). The mention of Tom Brady's contract situation* was only intended to demonstrate how it caught the media's attention, how they advocated for him being "underpaid," a possible outcome if a team "frontloads" a contract. Although the downside might be somewhat overstated, in my eyes it is sufficient reason not to do it because there is ZERO benefit to be gained. * I might have cited Richard Seymore's advocacy by a certain beat reporter (who now pollutes the airwaves from 2-6) writing multiple times how unfair it was the player wasn't able to talk about his injuries (#MeanieBill) -- the point was the same: it's low-hanging fruit for media to latch onto. 2021 tons of deals with all the cap space, 2022 no cap money because of those back loaded deals has you trading Shaq Mason and cutting Van Noy, leaving dead money on the books. That's not opinion, that's what actually happened. You are literally looking at this from a single contract point of view and not team building, the whole roster. Nevermind you talk about guys complaining about not being paid enough, the flip side is so many players get cut due to inflated cap numbers. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 13:47:32 GMT -5
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 18, 2024 13:55:47 GMT -5
Offensive Line Guy Brandon Thorn is a fan of a Sidy & Big Mike pairing:
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Mar 18, 2024 13:58:21 GMT -5
Math not opinion.
2+4=6 is neither better nor worse than 2+4=3*2
A bunch of anecdotal prattle will not change that fact.
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 516
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Post by badfishnbc on Mar 18, 2024 14:04:14 GMT -5
Stuck my head outside my Pats bubble to read the Yahoo league-wide assessment of free agency. I was shocked to not only learn that the Patriots were viewed as neither good nor bad, or even ugly, but that Jerry Jones and Tom Werner must've been classmates at the over promising-under delivering pre-free agency symposium. |
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Post by ematz1423 on Mar 18, 2024 14:15:20 GMT -5
Chris Simms strikes me as a bozo so I'm going to disregard him and his rankings but I'll put stock into Yates and Jeremiah saying it's no slam dunk for MHJ. Nabers does kind of strike me as more of a new age NFL WR with seemingly better big play potential than MHJ from what I've seen anyway. Seems like you can't go wrong either way with either of them.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 14:33:53 GMT -5
Math not opinion. 2+4=6 is neither better nor worse than 2+4=3*2 A bunch of anecdotal prattle will not change that fact. Lol, 2021 to 2022 is a fact, not opinion. It literally happened. Why? It's not about one contract, but all of them over the years of the contract. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 18, 2024 14:36:17 GMT -5
Chris Simms strikes me as a bozo so I'm going to disregard him and his rankings but I'll put stock into Yates and Jeremiah saying it's no slam dunk for MHJ. Nabers does kind of strike me as more of a new age NFL WR with seemingly better big play potential than MHJ from what I've seen anyway. Seems like you can't go wrong either way with either of them. I've seen lots of people debate top WR, but almost everyone had the same top 3. Leave it to Chris Simms to throw out something no one else has for his #2 guy. Yeah I think he does it to get clicks. |
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 516
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Post by badfishnbc on Mar 18, 2024 14:58:43 GMT -5
Every year March and April leading up to the draft becomes silly season. All fall we see guys declared to be generational players and then by March you have "whispers" that "evaluators" aren't "sold" on the previously named chosen ones.
There's no galaxy in which you'll convince me that Maye is worse than JJ or that MHJ isn't going to be a bonafide star.
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