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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by ematz1423 on Apr 13, 2024 19:47:01 GMT -5
Yea I think drake Maye if he's there at 3 would be a slam dunk and good news for the pats.
I dont really see it with daniels, guy can run but I don't think as a passer he will be an NFL franchise guy.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 13, 2024 23:48:50 GMT -5
Yea I think drake Maye if he's there at 3 would be a slam dunk and good news for the pats. I dont really see it with daniels, guy can run but I don't think as a passer he will be an NFL franchise guy. Daniels reminds me so much of Mac Jones as a passer. The arm strength is mediocre, but the touch and accuracy is awesome. If it’s drawn up and the pocket is clean, they’ll both kill you with precision dart throws. But that’s just not how the NFL works, unfortunately. Similar to Mac, Jayden doesn’t process through muddy pockets or tight coverage. Of course, it will help Daniels that defenses are going to be terrified of playing man coverage against him. If you can keep his jersey clean on drop backs and he can avoid injuries, he’s going to be successful in the NFL, because he has an eject button that Mac Jones doesn’t have. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 14, 2024 10:06:26 GMT -5
That's the problem with saying Daniels passing looks like Mac Jones and he just takes off to run with pressure with his eyes down like Fields. You are comparing him to the NFL versions of those players, not what they looked like in College. If Daniels throwing was Mac Jones level I would like him at #3 if Maye was gone. If he was destroying good defenses the way Mac Jones did and having huge games against quality teams. That's not Daniels though, Jones had way better accuracy and reading opponents D way better. Jones made way more NFL caliber throws. Mac Jones College game day tape against high end teams is better than Daniels high light tape against poor teams throwing the ball.
Yeah Daniels running adds another dimension and raises his floor in the NFL. It just raises it to worse Justin Fields type QB. He basically has to learn how to throw on the run and I'm fairly certain the reason he doesn't like Mac Jones is that his arm isn't great.
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Post by philarhody on Apr 14, 2024 13:22:53 GMT -5
That's the problem with saying Daniels passing looks like Mac Jones and he just takes off to run with pressure with his eyes down like Fields. You are comparing him to the NFL versions of those players, not what they looked like in College. If Daniels throwing was Mac Jones level I would like him at #3 if Maye was gone. If he was destroying good defenses the way Mac Jones did and having huge games against quality teams. That's not Daniels though, Jones had way better accuracy and reading opponents D way better. Jones made way more NFL caliber throws. Mac Jones College game day tape against high end teams is better than Daniels high light tape against poor teams throwing the ball. Yeah Daniels running adds another dimension and raises his floor in the NFL. It just raises it to worse Justin Fields type QB. He basically has to learn how to throw on the run and I'm fairly certain the reason he doesn't like Mac Jones is that his arm isn't great. Duder, how can you say Daniels didn’t destroy good teams but Mac did? They played in the same division of the same conference. note: actually, on second thought, let’s just acknowledge that as a rhetorical question and keep it moving. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 14, 2024 15:43:09 GMT -5
Daniels 19-7 his two years in SEC, Mac Jones 14-1. Jones lost his first game and then went 14-0 over two years, straight to a undefeated national championship game victory. Go check out the box scores, Daniels struggle against top talent teams, Mac Jones was destroying them. Last year in College for both versus top ten teams Daniels 0-2 with his worst two games, Jones 5-0 with some of his best games. Daniels is facing Grambling State, Georgia State and Army. Mac Jones just Louisiana State, plus conference Championship game and two Championship games. Heck it's even more pronounced if you compare the game tape. Daniels looks bad, Mac Jones just looks unstoppable against those top teams.
Add in Mac Jones was just learning how to start at Bama and Daniels had 3 years starting experience. Both had good offensive lines and tons of weapons. Just a massive difference between those two throwing the ball against top teams.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 14, 2024 18:10:01 GMT -5
What do you guys make of the Patriots love McCarthy rumors.
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Post by marrcus on Apr 14, 2024 23:51:08 GMT -5
A select group of 5 or so reporters, most of whom deal exclusively with the Pats say they think the team is very close to being set on McCarthy. Why do Mgt want these guys to be out there -at the same time- talking about the Michigan QB?
My guess would be the person connected to the Pats doing all the talking (Kraft, J.Kraft,Wolf ) is blowing smoke. He may have an ego which push him talk to people but I doubt that. They may like mcCarthy very much but not at #3.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Apr 15, 2024 11:26:11 GMT -5
A select group of 5 or so reporters, most of whom deal exclusively with the Pats say they think the team is very close to being set on McCarthy. Why do Mgt want these guys to be out there -at the same time- talking about the Michigan QB? My guess would be the person connected to the Pats doing all the talking (Kraft, J.Kraft,Wolf ) is blowing smoke. He may have an ego which push him talk to people but I doubt that. They may like mcCarthy very much but not at #3. There's a near-100% certainty he won't be taken 1 or 2 so I think the rumors are a way to generate hype and excitement for the kid, assuming they're this interested in him. If they weren't 3 I'd call it smoke. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 15, 2024 15:43:34 GMT -5
I don't think we know anything yet about the QBs other than Bears are taking Williams #1. Washington and Patriots are both doing top 30 visits with Maye, Daniels and McCarthy.
ESPN insider with an interesting note about Baker Mayfield, saying most had Darnold or Allen going #1, till about 24 hours before draft when it became known it was Mayfield. Nobody knows, because I don't think Washington right now knows 100% who they will pick. There's literally reports they take all 3, they are debating Daniels versus Maye, etc. I'd love it's Daniels go buy a jersey crap if I actually believed it was true. The most I buy at this time is maybe Daniels is the front runner. Why? You don't waste a top 30 visit on McCarthy is you are already 100% on Daniels and unlike Patriots there no talk about trading back.
I also don't for a 2nd believe Patriots are leaking crap to pump up McCarthy to the fans. Been a draft nut for many decades, that crap doesn't happen. You get leaks, you get tons of misinformation to fools teams, you get so called experts opinions based on very little. I can't recall a single team pumping up a player on purpose so when they draft them the fans are excited.
Top 30 visits OL is by far the most amount of players. Interestingly it's a ton of lower round players. I find that crazy interesting, I don't ever remember so many players getting top 30 visits that could literally go undrafted by the current rankings and I look at everyone rankings.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,874 
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2024 18:31:01 GMT -5
Breer saying part of the reason Belichick didn’t get a job is teams being like “he made Patricia OC in 2022?  Woof” To which I say yeah no kidding, huh? At least they got to observe it from afar. It was right in my eyeball every week |
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 15, 2024 19:20:08 GMT -5
Yeah, Patricia as the OC was so incredibly idiotic it made me question if Bill had onset dementia.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 15, 2024 19:32:23 GMT -5
I expect the Pats will take a QB at #3. I think that is a bad move. If they do pick at #3 then their next picks are 34, 68, and 103.
1. teams have a lot of difficulty identifying which QBs will succeed in the pros. I'm not going to rehash the arguments for Maye vs Daniels vs McCarthy - but I think its safe to say that none of them is a can't miss type prospect. If all we needed was a QB, then sure, roll the dice at #3, but....
2. even if the Pats do correctly identify the right guy at #3, given the Pats current situation, we may never know. The OL was bad last year, particularly in pass protection. All they have done between last year and this year is to replace Trent Brown (who despite his issues was actually good) with Okorafor (who has been barely adequate). Putting a rookie QB in behind this OL, and with this weak WR core, will almost certainly not get good results, with a significant probability of wrecking him altogether.
3. it would be surprising if the Pats could get a day 1 starting OT at 34 (or 68 or 103). Alt will be gone by pick 10. Mims, Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu should all be gone by pick 20. A lot of people like Troy Fautanu. He definitely moves well. But his anchor is questionable, he gets run into his QB a lot, and his run blocking is...poor. I don't get the love for him at all...and he may not even be there at 34. It is questionable whether Morgan and Barton are OTs. Patrick Paul needs a lot of work on run blocking but might be ok day 1 in pass protection despite some hand issues. Guyton, Suamataia, Fisher, Amegadjie each need a ton of development work. After that, there are a few swing tackles who might be ok off the bench, but they don't really move the needle.
4. the Pats can probably do better with upgrading IOL with picks 34, 68, 103. Jackson Powers-Johnson could fall to pick 34. Christian Mahogany and Cooper Beebe should be available at 34 and maybe at 68. I like Mahogany a good bit better. Dominick Puni, Mason McCormick, and Brandon Coleman (if you buy his poor 2023 performance was due to injury) should all be available at 34, 68, and maybe at 103.
5. If the Pats were to take MJH at #3 ...ok I would get it. MJH, Nabers, and Bowers would be huge upgrades to our pass catching core. Those are the types of talents that you can't get lower in the draft. And even if the Brissett struggles with a poor OL, it would not risk ruining MJH (or Nabers or Bowers).
6. Go after good linemen first. Protect your QB. Once you have a good line, then start adding weapons. Then you can worry about getting your franchise QB. Trade up if necessary, or better yet, sign a free agent QB. Yes it costs $ but let someone else experiment with a college QB. And its not like drafting a college QB saves you $ for his career. If he is any good, then after 4 years you need to pay him anyways.
I expect everyone will hate this plan.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 15, 2024 19:36:37 GMT -5
Joe Alt ***** LT Notre Dame, age 21.1 MDB: 9 ROB SAYS: top 5 blue chip www.mockdraftable.com/player/joe-alt ranks among OT Height: 6'8 5/8" (98th), Weight: 321 lbs (71st), Wingspan: 82 3/4" (64th), Arms: 34 1/4" (58th), Hands: 10" (45th) 40-Yard: 5.05s (87th), 10-Yard: 1.73s (84th), Shuttle: 4.51s (90th), 3-Cone: 7.31s (94th), Vert: 28" (46th), Broad: 112" (88th), Bench: 27 (70th) PFF Pass: 368 snaps, 91.2 pass, 1 sack, 2 hits, 2 hurries PFF Run: 344 snaps, 86.5 run, 90.3 zone, 75.4 gap Pass Pro vs Duke: Pass Pro vs USC: Pass Pro vs Ohio St: Run Blocks vs Stanford: Notre Dame OL vs USC: playing LT Notre Dame OL vs Ohio St: palying LT * Played LT exclusively. Could probably play anywhere on the OL. Very tall. Very athletic. He has been PFFs top rated OLman for two years running. Mirror is excellent. He doesn't look that impressive in pass protection. However, 5 seconds into the play and the rusher is nowhere near the QB. Only 5 pressures this year. His anchor is just good - however, from his frame he looks like he can put on more good weight. He is excellent in either zone or gap running schemes. He or Fuaga are the best run blocker in this year's class. There is an interview of him on YouTube and he could be your OLine coach too. He is an encyclopedia of blocking. |
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,874
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Post by cdj on Apr 15, 2024 19:36:55 GMT -5
I expect the Pats will take a QB at #3. I think that is a bad move. If they do pick at #3 then their next picks are 34, 68, and 103. 1. teams have a lot of difficulty identifying which QBs will succeed in the pros. I'm not going to rehash the arguments for Maye vs Daniels vs McCarthy - but I think it’s safe to say that none of them is a can't miss type prospect. If all we needed was a QB, then sure, roll the dice at #3, but.... 2. even if the Pats do correctly identify the right guy at #3, given the Pats current situation, we may never know. The OL was bad last year, particularly in pass protection. All they have done between last year and this year is to replace Trent Brown (who despite his issues was actually good) with Okorafor (who has been barely adequate). Putting a rookie QB in behind this OL, and with this weak WR core, will almost certainly not get good results, with a significant probability of wrecking him altogether. 3. it would be surprising if the Pats could get a day 1 starting OT at 34 (or 68 or 103). Alt will be gone by pick 10. Mims, Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu should all be gone by pick 20. A lot of people like Troy Fautanu. He definitely moves well. But his anchor is questionable, he gets run into his QB a lot, and his run blocking is...poor. I don't get the love for him at all...and he may not even be there at 34. It is questionable whether Morgan and Barton are OTs. Patrick Paul needs a lot of work on run blocking but might be ok day 1 in pass protection despite some hand issues. Guyton, Suamataia, Fisher, Amegadjie each need a ton of development work. After that, there are a few swing tackles who might be ok off the bench, but they don't really move the needle. 4. the Pats can probably do better with upgrading IOL with picks 34, 68, 103. Jackson Powers-Johnson could fall to pick 34. Christian Mahogany and Cooper Beebe should be available at 34 and maybe at 68. I like Mahogany a good bit better. Dominick Puni, Mason McCormick, and Brandon Coleman (if you buy his poor 2023 performance was due to injury) should all be available at 34, 68, and maybe at 103. 5. If the Pats were to take MJH at #3 ...ok I would get it. MJH, Nabers, and Bowers would be huge upgrades to our pass catching core. Those are the types of talents that you can't get lower in the draft. And even if the Brissett struggles with a poor OL, it would not risk ruining MJH (or Nabers or Bowers). 6. Go after good linemen first. Protect your QB. Once you have a good line, then start adding weapons. Then you can worry about getting your franchise QB. Trade up if necessary, or better yet, sign a free agent QB. Yes it costs $ but let someone else experiment with a college QB. And its not like drafting a college QB saves you $ for his career. If he is any good, then after 4 years you need to pay him anyways. I expect everyone will hate this plan. Sure do. Far from guaranteed to be in a better spot to get the franchise QB than you are right now. If you have belief in the guy there at 3 you take him I’d be ok if they pick Penix early 2nd/late 1st I guess. The problem with building up the team before taking the QB is that you’ll have a mediocre team at worst and won’t be in a position to land a true franchise guy without completely lucking out |
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Post by philarhody on Apr 15, 2024 20:32:41 GMT -5
I expect the Pats will take a QB at #3. I think that is a bad move. If they do pick at #3 then their next picks are 34, 68, and 103. 1. teams have a lot of difficulty identifying which QBs will succeed in the pros. I'm not going to rehash the arguments for Maye vs Daniels vs McCarthy - but I think its safe to say that none of them is a can't miss type prospect. If all we needed was a QB, then sure, roll the dice at #3, but.... 2. even if the Pats do correctly identify the right guy at #3, given the Pats current situation, we may never know. The OL was bad last year, particularly in pass protection. All they have done between last year and this year is to replace Trent Brown (who despite his issues was actually good) with Okorafor (who has been barely adequate). Putting a rookie QB in behind this OL, and with this weak WR core, will almost certainly not get good results, with a significant probability of wrecking him altogether. 3. it would be surprising if the Pats could get a day 1 starting OT at 34 (or 68 or 103). Alt will be gone by pick 10. Mims, Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu should all be gone by pick 20. A lot of people like Troy Fautanu. He definitely moves well. But his anchor is questionable, he gets run into his QB a lot, and his run blocking is...poor. I don't get the love for him at all...and he may not even be there at 34. It is questionable whether Morgan and Barton are OTs. Patrick Paul needs a lot of work on run blocking but might be ok day 1 in pass protection despite some hand issues. Guyton, Suamataia, Fisher, Amegadjie each need a ton of development work. After that, there are a few swing tackles who might be ok off the bench, but they don't really move the needle. 4. the Pats can probably do better with upgrading IOL with picks 34, 68, 103. Jackson Powers-Johnson could fall to pick 34. Christian Mahogany and Cooper Beebe should be available at 34 and maybe at 68. I like Mahogany a good bit better. Dominick Puni, Mason McCormick, and Brandon Coleman (if you buy his poor 2023 performance was due to injury) should all be available at 34, 68, and maybe at 103. 5. If the Pats were to take MJH at #3 ...ok I would get it. MJH, Nabers, and Bowers would be huge upgrades to our pass catching core. Those are the types of talents that you can't get lower in the draft. And even if the Brissett struggles with a poor OL, it would not risk ruining MJH (or Nabers or Bowers). 6. Go after good linemen first. Protect your QB. Once you have a good line, then start adding weapons. Then you can worry about getting your franchise QB. Trade up if necessary, or better yet, sign a free agent QB. Yes it costs $ but let someone else experiment with a college QB. And its not like drafting a college QB saves you $ for his career. If he is any good, then after 4 years you need to pay him anyways. I expect everyone will hate this plan. You‘re right. If you want to build a good team, it’s much safer taking a pass catcher or tackle. I don’t really want a good team though. Because good teams don’t usually win super bowls. Elite quarterbacks do. And so you need to take a shot at the quarterback with elite traits (Maye) or draft Jayden and hope you can assemble enough talent around him Ala the Eagles/49ers to contend. |
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Post by texs31 on Apr 15, 2024 21:04:33 GMT -5
I expect the Pats will take a QB at #3. I think that is a bad move. If they do pick at #3 then their next picks are 34, 68, and 103. 1. teams have a lot of difficulty identifying which QBs will succeed in the pros. I'm not going to rehash the arguments for Maye vs Daniels vs McCarthy - but I think its safe to say that none of them is a can't miss type prospect. If all we needed was a QB, then sure, roll the dice at #3, but.... 2. even if the Pats do correctly identify the right guy at #3, given the Pats current situation, we may never know. The OL was bad last year, particularly in pass protection. All they have done between last year and this year is to replace Trent Brown (who despite his issues was actually good) with Okorafor (who has been barely adequate). Putting a rookie QB in behind this OL, and with this weak WR core, will almost certainly not get good results, with a significant probability of wrecking him altogether. 3. it would be surprising if the Pats could get a day 1 starting OT at 34 (or 68 or 103). Alt will be gone by pick 10. Mims, Fuaga, Latham, Fashanu should all be gone by pick 20. A lot of people like Troy Fautanu. He definitely moves well. But his anchor is questionable, he gets run into his QB a lot, and his run blocking is...poor. I don't get the love for him at all...and he may not even be there at 34. It is questionable whether Morgan and Barton are OTs. Patrick Paul needs a lot of work on run blocking but might be ok day 1 in pass protection despite some hand issues. Guyton, Suamataia, Fisher, Amegadjie each need a ton of development work. After that, there are a few swing tackles who might be ok off the bench, but they don't really move the needle. 4. the Pats can probably do better with upgrading IOL with picks 34, 68, 103. Jackson Powers-Johnson could fall to pick 34. Christian Mahogany and Cooper Beebe should be available at 34 and maybe at 68. I like Mahogany a good bit better. Dominick Puni, Mason McCormick, and Brandon Coleman (if you buy his poor 2023 performance was due to injury) should all be available at 34, 68, and maybe at 103. 5. If the Pats were to take MJH at #3 ...ok I would get it. MJH, Nabers, and Bowers would be huge upgrades to our pass catching core. Those are the types of talents that you can't get lower in the draft. And even if the Brissett struggles with a poor OL, it would not risk ruining MJH (or Nabers or Bowers). 6. Go after good linemen first. Protect your QB. Once you have a good line, then start adding weapons. Then you can worry about getting your franchise QB. Trade up if necessary, or better yet, sign a free agent QB. Yes it costs $ but let someone else experiment with a college QB. And its not like drafting a college QB saves you $ for his career. If he is any good, then after 4 years you need to pay him anyways. I expect everyone will hate this plan. I don't disagree with your first bullet. You don't just take the QB high bc you need a QB. Its all in the evaluation. After that, you lost me. I'd be shocked to learn a single decision maker in the NFL thinks this way. Heck, I don't even think those in the media who are saying it actually think this way (instead, being motivated by the need to create content). Passing up on a guy who could fill the most important position on the field bc the OTHER players aren't good enough? That's absurd. Take him. Sit him, if need be. Also, It's so easy to eventually trade up to get a franchise QB but you can't trade up (even in this very draft) to get a starting LT? Say that aloud to yourself. It defies everything we know about the sport. And btw, if you're hanging your hat on the fact that evaluators are questioning the can't miss nature of the QBs, you should also trust them when they say this is one of the strongest OT classes in a while and starting caliber players will be available well into Day 2. I feel like we get into these discussions bc of a false notion that we have as much info as the teams. We don't. They are making decisions based on info we don't even come close to having. They don't have to rely on these weird strategies bc they can rely on the information they are gathering and are willing to bet their jobs on it. |
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Post by rasimon on Apr 15, 2024 21:12:23 GMT -5
Good examples
The 49ers assembled a team with a very good OL and excellent skill players and then added Brock Purdy with the 267th pick. Prior to Purdy they traded a boatload to move up to #3 to pick Trey Lance who has done nothing. Prior to that they traded a 2nd round pick for Jimmy G. And Jimmy G was also a 2nd round pick 62nd.
Philly has an excellent OL. Lane Johnson, Kelce (just retired), Mailata, Dickerson. Jalen Hurts was a 2nd round pick...#53. The last pieces ]ppwere the skill players Smith and Green. Before Hurts, the Eagles did use a top pick on Wentz, and he was good, but he left as a FA after 5 years.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 15, 2024 21:18:04 GMT -5
Your providing examples of a plan based on good fortune though. Do you think those GMs, if suddenly needing a QB and armed with a top pick, would be saying, "Hey, I can get my guy in the 2nd rd or even late in Day 3?"
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 15, 2024 21:19:32 GMT -5
Here's my final draft plan:
1- Draft Maye at #3;
2- Trade with Washington for the #2 pick and pick Maye;
3- If Maye has been selected, see if any team will give you a moronic offer to trade up, then take the best available talent, preferably on offense;
4- Select MHJ.
That's it. I accept no deviation.
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Post by texs31 on Apr 15, 2024 21:20:45 GMT -5
Looks like NE is having a Top 30 visit with Penix.
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Post by rasimon on Apr 15, 2024 22:41:55 GMT -5
Your providing examples of a plan based on good fortune though. Do you think those GMs, if suddenly needing a QB and armed with a top pick, would be saying, "Hey, I can get my guy in the 2nd rd or even late in Day 3?" I was responding to philorhardy's examples of sf and phil as teams to emulate. Noting that neither of them got where they are by using top picks on qbs. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Apr 15, 2024 23:42:32 GMT -5
Here's my final draft plan: 1- Draft Maye at #3; 2- Trade with Washington for the #2 pick and pick Maye; 3- If Maye has been selected, see if any team will give you a moronic offer to trade up, then take the best available talent, preferably on offense; 4- Select MHJ. That's it. I accept no deviation. 1. Hope Washington is stupid 2. If they are, take Maye within 1 second of Washington pick. 3. Washington takes Maye, WTF let's not even think about that lol. |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,046
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Post by mobaz on Apr 16, 2024 9:39:05 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 16, 2024 13:42:18 GMT -5
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Post by philarhody on Apr 17, 2024 7:29:08 GMT -5
Good examples The 49ers assembled a team with a very good OL and excellent skill players and then added Brock Purdy with the 267th pick. Prior to Purdy they traded a boatload to move up to #3 to pick Trey Lance who has done nothing. Prior to that they traded a 2nd round pick for Jimmy G. And Jimmy G was also a 2nd round pick 62nd. Philly has an excellent OL. Lane Johnson, Kelce (just retired), Mailata, Dickerson. Jalen Hurts was a 2nd round pick...#53. The last pieces ]ppwere the skill players Smith and Green. Before Hurts, the Eagles did use a top pick on Wentz, and he was good, but he left as a FA after 5 years. Yes, and while each of those teams are highly talented, we saw what can happen in Philly: when the good/not great quarterback gets paid, the talent fades away. The same thing will happen in San Fran if they decide to pay Purdy This is the issue with Jayden Daniels or JJ McCarthy to me. I’m not sure either of those players’ ceilings will be worth a massive second contract where you can diminish a supporting cast around them. Which means you need to start competing right away, and New England doesn’t have the talent to do that. |
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Woof” 
