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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 15, 2024 14:41:40 GMT -5
That would have been a monumental mistake for him and would have really hurt the Patriots. I'm glad he declared. |
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 15, 2024 15:40:07 GMT -5
Good, find a way to trade up with the Bears and take Drake Maye.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 15, 2024 15:41:32 GMT -5
Mini Bo Nix scouting report, I'll update after watching more tape and reading more scouting reports.
The good, highly athletic QB with a very good arm that can make a ton of plays on the run with his arm and legs. 5 years starting experience for two major college teams. Very productive the last two years at Oregon. Basically single handed kept his team in the Washington game. Makes throws from different arm angles and shows ability to throw ball with touch when called for.
The bad, always in shotgun at Oregon, it's a college type offense even in these days. Lot's of quick reads and passes. Tons of one read throws. Uses running to help get receivers open deep by drawing in safeties. Very little sit in pocket and go through his reads then making a big throw, usually a dump down. I've seen zero timing throws. Lot's of throwing to open guys. WR seem to run limited route trees. Goes through the reads more it seems on the move, but makes a lot of risky throws. While arm strength is very good, it's not elite. Same with running, very good, not elite. Takes off when there's pressure, never moving around in the pocket.
Tools are there, a lot to like about him. He's just a major project in most pro style offenses. You'd have to build the offense around him. Big worries from me about sitting in pocket, reading the D and making big throws. Major question marks about making all the NFL throws he'll need to make. At the same time, he's a playmaker who would make a bad OL look better.
Senior Bowl will be huge for him as they likely ask him to do many of the things he didn't do at Oregon. How he does there will be huge for where he gets drafted.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 15, 2024 17:33:03 GMT -5
Im fine with them taking Daniels there from lsu if thats whats left. I love harrrison (wr) but we need a qb and not big on the options if we wait. They could always take a QB in round two who is more appropriate for their draft slot rather than drafting a guy third who many don’t believe is worth that high of a pick. Mel & Field pod dropped today. Field has him QB#2 & Mel has him #3. Neither have a problem with him drafted at pick #3. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 15, 2024 20:42:07 GMT -5
Senior Bowl will be huge for him as they likely ask him to do many of the things he didn't do at Oregon. How he does there will be huge for where he gets drafted. Penix accepted invite to Senior Bowl too. Good to see them both out of the context of their systems. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 16, 2024 9:45:49 GMT -5
There's no way for example Jack Jones was picked by Bill, I'd say that's a perfect example to show you it wasn't just Bill picking guys not listening to his scouting guys. The way Matt Groh talked about Thornton after drafting him sure seems like that was his guy. At same time Grohs first two draft are crazy extreme, one bad, one good. Chad Ryland isn't an example of bad scouting. I had Moody #1, but it was split 50/50 on who was the top kicker in the draft. You can say no kickers that high, but don't say that's some horrible scouting crap. If it is, then every scout sucks because I don't remember anyone not having Moody or Ryland as their top 2 kickers. It's like everyone has Williams and Maye as the top 2 QBs. The NFL draft isn't a science, the best GMs will have tons of draft busts. 49ers have been great, they took Trey Lance in one of the most epic recent failures in football given the price they paid to get him. Patriots if they knew Douglas would be this good, they take him much earlier. I don't know if I would have cleaned house, I wouldn't have done this! This comes off as saying Bills the big problem, while trying to create some weird power structure. Co GMs, while it seems Mayo has much more Power than your average coach. A coach and GM combo can be tricky when the coach has a bunch of power, see the Raiders. Now it seems we have that, yet with co GMs? Who's the tie breaker when they don't agree? Our owner? Nevermind all the framework for the whole offseason was done under Bill with these guys. I would have simply kept Bill as coach and named this guys co GMs. Each has one vote, thus stoping Bill from taking Strange in 1st round and giving out huge extensions to guys like Godchaux. This is either going to be brilliant or a complete crap show! I really don't see a middle ground. Which is the good draft and which is the bad draft? Because people were saying how great the 2022 draft was after the first year, and now it’s apparently crap, but we are sold on the 2023 draft now? |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 16, 2024 9:47:21 GMT -5
Because too many teams were giving a token interview to an internal minority and then picking the guy they already wanted anyway. So know they HAVE to cast a broader net and interview more (minority) candidates from outside the organization. Even though they're literally hiring a minority? Imagine if the NFL decided to investigate and then fine the Patriots after hiring a black head coach for not looking at enough external candidates? |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 16, 2024 9:49:08 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5203443/2024/01/16/nfl-mock-draft-2024-two-rounds-quarterbacks/Brugler ($) has the Pats take MHJ at 3 and Nix at 34, with Daniels going at 8 to the Falcons, McCarthy at 19 to the Rams (!), and Penix at 44 to the Raiders. Maye 2, Nabers 4, Bowers 5, Odunze 6 in an all-skill Top 6. First defender is Dallas Turner at 9 to Chicago He has Chicago resetting at QB if for nothing else financial reasons but doesn't make Williams sound like a no-doubter or anything.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 16, 2024 10:02:13 GMT -5
theathletic.com/5203443/2024/01/16/nfl-mock-draft-2024-two-rounds-quarterbacks/Brugler ($) has the Pats take MHJ at 3 and Nix at 34, with Daniels going at 8 to the Falcons, McCarthy at 19 to the Rams (!), and Penix at 44 to the Raiders. Maye 2, Nabers 4, Bowers 5, Odunze 6 in an all-skill Top 6. First defender is Dallas Turner at 9 to Chicago He has Chicago resetting at QB if for nothing else financial reasons but doesn't make Williams sound like a no-doubter or anything. I’d much rather Nix at 34 than Daniels at 3… unless I’m wrong about Daniels and he’s a stud then they should definitely take him at 3 lol |
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jan 16, 2024 11:37:40 GMT -5
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2024 11:40:16 GMT -5
There's no way for example Jack Jones was picked by Bill, I'd say that's a perfect example to show you it wasn't just Bill picking guys not listening to his scouting guys. The way Matt Groh talked about Thornton after drafting him sure seems like that was his guy. At same time Grohs first two draft are crazy extreme, one bad, one good. Chad Ryland isn't an example of bad scouting. I had Moody #1, but it was split 50/50 on who was the top kicker in the draft. You can say no kickers that high, but don't say that's some horrible scouting crap. If it is, then every scout sucks because I don't remember anyone not having Moody or Ryland as their top 2 kickers. It's like everyone has Williams and Maye as the top 2 QBs. The NFL draft isn't a science, the best GMs will have tons of draft busts. 49ers have been great, they took Trey Lance in one of the most epic recent failures in football given the price they paid to get him. Patriots if they knew Douglas would be this good, they take him much earlier. I don't know if I would have cleaned house, I wouldn't have done this! This comes off as saying Bills the big problem, while trying to create some weird power structure. Co GMs, while it seems Mayo has much more Power than your average coach. A coach and GM combo can be tricky when the coach has a bunch of power, see the Raiders. Now it seems we have that, yet with co GMs? Who's the tie breaker when they don't agree? Our owner? Nevermind all the framework for the whole offseason was done under Bill with these guys. I would have simply kept Bill as coach and named this guys co GMs. Each has one vote, thus stoping Bill from taking Strange in 1st round and giving out huge extensions to guys like Godchaux. This is either going to be brilliant or a complete crap show! I really don't see a middle ground. Which is the good draft and which is the bad draft? Because people were saying how great the 2022 draft was after the first year, and now it’s apparently crap, but we are sold on the 2023 draft now? Who thought the 2022 draft was great after the first year? Yeah I liked the 2023 draft more when it happened and nothing has changed that, but year two is important for many players. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 16, 2024 11:59:16 GMT -5
How does everyone feel about Nix? And could he make it to #34? Excerpt from this morning's Brugler mock: "The NFL feedback on Nix is interesting. Some believe he can sneak his way into the top 25, while others see him as a third-rounder. The reality probably will fall somewhere in the middle. Nix, who was born two months after the Patriots hired Belichick, understands where to go with the football, and his scrambling can give defenses fits." |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2024 12:31:26 GMT -5
What do you want out of a QB? Caleb Williams is an example of a near perfect guy for me, he checks every box but elite size. I first want a QB that can make all the throws with consistency, 2nd is mobile, can buy time and help make it easier on his targets to make plays and third can run. Obviously a very simplified breakdown.
Jayden Daniels is an electric runner, heck he kinda looks like a tall skinny WR with major YAC ability. He throws a great deep ball. He doesn't make all the throws with consistency and while he's very mobile, he's not making as many throws on the move as you would think he should. Nix does much more throwing on the run for example. You have to have major worries about his running style and potential for injury. He's not sliding or stepping out of bounds, he's juking and trying to take it to the house. Reminds me of a smaller Hurts type QB, look at Hurts in playoffs down his top WR. Still bombing away to his other great WR, everything else was short passes. I might be highly biased but I've seen Brian Kelly get big production out of a lot of QBs, none did anything in NFL. He reminds me of a skinny Kizer. Now don't get me wrong, there are things to like also, he's gotten better for years and has lots of experience. I just see a massive drop off after the top 2 and Harrison Jr. Is a massive stud at a position of need.
Why I really like Penix, he can make all the throws with consistency, his issues besides the injuries, is he's the only pure pocket thrower among the top QBs. Guys a gunslinger, heck maybe a modern day Drew Bledsoe with more consistency on his throws and moves better in the pocket. Which create there own issues.
So what do you want from a QB? What type of offense do you want to run?
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cdj
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Posts: 15,854 
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Post by cdj on Jan 16, 2024 12:52:04 GMT -5
I’m picking Penix over Nix if it comes to it
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2024 13:15:49 GMT -5
I’m picking Penix over Nix if it comes to it I can't wait for the senior bowl and how those two adjust/perform. Likely won't happen, but I want them on the same team, with same players and coaches. |
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jan 16, 2024 13:50:38 GMT -5
So what do you want from a QB? What type of offense do you want to run? Huge question, and having a defensive-minded coach does mean the offensive system likely comes in with the OC, which means it will change as OCs go up-or-out (which they all do). Even if Mayo is a long-timer, we're not gonna carry something like a Perkins-style offense for 2 decades. Unless Mayo is better at cultivating future OCs than BB was the last 15 years. I'd hoped Jedd Fisch would have been that guy, but he went up faster than expected. |
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 16, 2024 13:57:21 GMT -5
I’m on the Jayden Daniel train he made huge improvements from 22 to 23 as a passer and the athletic ability is undeniable he played with some awesome WRs but he did his job getting the ball to them specially the deep ball.
Maybe they can work a trade down (not too far down) for teams that want MHJ and get assets plus Daniels who knows. Obviously I won’t be mad if they have to settle for MHJ and get a veteran QB to get him the ball.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2024 14:33:26 GMT -5
So what do you want from a QB? What type of offense do you want to run? Huge question, and having a defensive-minded coach does mean the offensive system likely comes in with the OC, which means it will change as OCs go up-or-out (which they all do). Even if Mayo is a long-timer, we're not gonna carry something like a Perkins-style offense for 2 decades. Unless Mayo is better at cultivating future OCs than BB was the last 15 years. I'd hoped Jedd Fisch would have been that guy, but he went up faster than expected. I hope you're not right, a big part of Bill and Bradys success was the same system even as we went from Weis to McDaniels to O'Brian and back to McDaniels. Same with Parcels as coach, that was his system, not the OC. Mac Jones might have had 3 OC, but he had one offensive system. I don't want to find a franchise QB, who excels in a system, then have him up and down as it keeps changing when OC leave. I want Mayo to pick a system and make it his system, just like Parcel and Bill did. Things like this are a big worry with Mayo, he doesn't have a lot of coaching experience. You think Bill was bad at cultivating future OC? For a defensive coach, I think he did darn well. McDaniels is one of the best in football, best record wise in Patriot history and O'Brian is decent. The problem is teams had been going after his coaches hard for two decades. |
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jan 16, 2024 15:47:00 GMT -5
You think Bill was bad at cultivating future OC? For a defensive coach, I think he did darn well. McDaniels is one of the best in football, best record wise in Patriot history and O'Brian is decent. The problem is teams had been going after his coaches hard for two decades. He had Weis, then McDaniels, then BOB, but didn't really have anyone innovative or interesting come after that. OB first left in 2012. Chad O'Shea is the only recent guy I can remember getting hired anywhere and he flamed out fast (I guess he's #3 in Cleveland?). So Bill was great cultivating those guys, but hasn't since. Again, I think he saw the future a little when he hired Fisch, but didn't follow up with anything future-forward when he left after 1 year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 16, 2024 17:00:01 GMT -5
Jedd Fisch left in 2021. A good amount of talk about last year's TE coach that O'Brian replace with his guy could be an OC.
Mick Lombardi left with McDaniels to be Raiders OC, Bo Hardegree went with them
Jedd Fisch to HC Arizona College
Brian Daboll to OC Bama, then OC Bills, the Giants HC
Chad O'Shea went with Flores to Dolphins.
McDaniels twice to HC with Denver and Raiders
That's the big ones in the last ten years, 3 guys left to become OCs. That's darn good for a defensive coach.
Good news is Mayo isn't greatest coach of all-time, no one is going to raid his staff unless he does really well and that's a tradeoff I can live with. Just pick a system and keep the shelfs stocked.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 16, 2024 17:23:45 GMT -5
Which is the good draft and which is the bad draft? Because people were saying how great the 2022 draft was after the first year, and now it’s apparently crap, but we are sold on the 2023 draft now? Who thought the 2022 draft was great after the first year? Yeah I liked the 2023 draft more when it happened and nothing has changed that, but year two is important for many players. I don’t want to get semantical over the word “great” but plenty of people were very happy with the 2022 class after year 1. Reality is I think the 2023 have a chance to be epic but it could also basically suck too. I don’t think it will but let’s just say Gonzales and his frame don’t hold up and he ends up an injury bust. White just ends up a rotation player and Douglas is already at his ceiling and his small frame gets injured a lot. |
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mobaz
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Posts: 3,044
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Post by mobaz on Jan 16, 2024 17:59:19 GMT -5
Jedd Fisch left in 2021. A good amount of talk about last year's TE coach that O'Brian replace with his guy could be an OC. Mick Lombardi left with McDaniels to be Raiders OC, Bo Hardegree went with them Jedd Fisch to HC Arizona College Brian Daboll to OC Bama, then OC Bills, the Giants HC Chad O'Shea went with Flores to Dolphins. McDaniels twice to HC with Denver and Raiders That's the big ones in the last ten years, 3 guys left to become OCs. That's darn good for a defensive coach. Good news is Mayo isn't greatest coach of all-time, no one is going to raid his staff unless he does really well and that's a tradeoff I can live with. Just pick a system and keep the shelfs stocked. Daboll is definitely a good one I missed. Not sure I feel Mick Lombardi was a notable innovator or success but hard to know what was happening in the Raiders. You're right, a bit more talent than I thought of. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Jan 16, 2024 18:37:58 GMT -5
Who thought the 2022 draft was great after the first year? Yeah I liked the 2023 draft more when it happened and nothing has changed that, but year two is important for many players. I don’t want to get semantical over the word “great” but plenty of people were very happy with the 2022 class after year 1. Reality is I think the 2023 have a chance to be epic but it could also basically suck too. I don’t think it will but let’s just say Gonzales and his frame don’t hold up and he ends up an injury bust. White just ends up a rotation player and Douglas is already at his ceiling and his small frame gets injured a lot. What's wrong with Gonzo's frame? He looks pretty sturdy for a CB to me. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 16, 2024 18:46:12 GMT -5
I don’t want to get semantical over the word “great” but plenty of people were very happy with the 2022 class after year 1. Reality is I think the 2023 have a chance to be epic but it could also basically suck too. I don’t think it will but let’s just say Gonzales and his frame don’t hold up and he ends up an injury bust. White just ends up a rotation player and Douglas is already at his ceiling and his small frame gets injured a lot. What's wrong with Gonzo's frame? He looks pretty sturdy for a CB to me. I think it's the idea if he gets hurt again in year 2. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 16, 2024 19:59:38 GMT -5
What's wrong with Gonzo's frame? He looks pretty sturdy for a CB to me. I think it's the idea if he gets hurt again in year 2. Correct more this. |
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