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Patriots 2024 Offseason Thread
cdj
Veteran
Posts: 15,892 
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Post by cdj on May 22, 2024 17:44:47 GMT -5
How to you sell that to Drake Maye? Brissett and Zappe are veterans that have started and won NFL games. Joe Milton is a 6th round pick with less College starts than Drake Maye and more raw. Yeah we know you outplayed Milton, ran circles around him all training camp, but he's starting! I don't hate the idea if you just want to tank, it makes sense. They aren't doing it, certainly not game one of the year. The optics are so crazy bad its not even funny. I’d tell Drake Maye that it’s all about the draft and we want the #1 pick because you know someone is getting stupid for Carson Beck. Then I’d tell Bazooka to not throw ANY pass under 20 yards. I would have more fun than any season we’ve ever had |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 22, 2024 17:53:20 GMT -5
Absolutely never going to happen! Brand new coach telling his team game 1 we don't value winning at all. It's not about earning your spot, talent and hard work mean Absolutely nothing. We are doing the most blatant tank job in recent memory. We only care about Joe Milton having the lowest completion percentage in NFL history!
It's funny to joke about. You can make a case that in a vacuum it could make sense, but it's one of the most unrealistic things ever!
Drake Maye ready or not, would start game 1.
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Post by pedroelgrande on May 22, 2024 18:06:33 GMT -5
Its crazy you guys are even entertaining the 6th rd pick being ahead of your 3rd overall pick on the depth chart. Use italics.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 22, 2024 18:53:50 GMT -5
Absolutely never going to happen! Brand new coach telling his team game 1 we don't value winning at all. It's not about earning your spot, talent and hard work mean Absolutely nothing. We are doing the most blatant tank job in recent memory. We only care about Joe Milton having the lowest completion percentage in NFL history! It's funny to joke about. You can make a case that in a vacuum it could make sense, but it's one of the most unrealistic things ever! Drake Maye ready or not, would start game 1. We can meet halfway. Let Maye start but have Bazooka Joe ready to throw a random Hail Mary in a given down from anywhere in the field at least once in every drive. |
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Post by dfwsox on May 22, 2024 20:45:04 GMT -5
Not what I was trying to say, yeah I could agree with that. What if you release Zappe, he signs somewhere, then Brissett gets injured during camp. I don't want Maye starting game one because he was handed QB1 by default. I don't want him being forced to play before he's ready. If that happens then I'm sorry but we need to play BAZOOKA JOE. Thing is this guy is a freak athlete. Always willing to take the dice roll on this. Maybe Zape leaves due to this, hopefully not but im good if this is the outcome right or not. |
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Post by rjp313jr on May 23, 2024 5:27:28 GMT -5
I just think it’s silly to cut Zappe until you know the offensive line is good. I’d rather him running around getting killed than our rookies. You can keep 4 QBs on the 53, so you certainly can have 4 in camp. Some guy names Brady was the 4th QB his rookie year.
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Post by texs31 on May 23, 2024 11:18:24 GMT -5
With the HEAVY caveat that 1 OTA open to practice is not telling, I did agree with the Patriots Unfiltered pod cast on having 4 guys on the 90.
Reps are the most important thing. Having a 4th guy taking up some of them is not going to help Mayes development, especially when now is the chance (unless, gasp, one is legitimately entertaining the idea of him playing a lot early). Otherwise, you want Jacoby getting most of the in season reps.
4 guys is different when there is a clear hierarchy (both current and future) but when you need 1 guy to get reps for the present and 1 to get reps for the future, it's a challenge (not an insurmountable one but still).
Agree that most of this is due to the drafting of Milton which seems completely unnecessary. I'd love to have been in a position to draft him to develop behind a locked I'm starter and proven backup. But that's not where we are. Not going to sneak him on to the PS in all likelihood. So you either lose a guy who can hold the fort if JB gets hurt and Maye isn't ready or you're cutting your 6th (when you could have, at least, brought in someone who could compete with the younger castbof characters as ST contributors).
Probably need to hope that some combination of the following happens:
- we can get a little something for Zappe
- JB is healthy for as long as we need him to be
- Mayo WONT play Maye until he's ready
- some veteran becomes available sometime before we a non-Maye body out there (maybe a different guy can be on the PS after cutdown).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 23, 2024 15:46:47 GMT -5
Absolutely never going to happen! Brand new coach telling his team game 1 we don't value winning at all. It's not about earning your spot, talent and hard work mean Absolutely nothing. We are doing the most blatant tank job in recent memory. We only care about Joe Milton having the lowest completion percentage in NFL history! It's funny to joke about. You can make a case that in a vacuum it could make sense, but it's one of the most unrealistic things ever! Drake Maye ready or not, would start game 1. We can meet halfway. Let Maye start but have Bazooka Joe ready to throw a random Hail Mary in a given down from anywhere in the field at least once in every drive. Why? He completed only 38.6% of his passes 10 yards or more last year in College. Drake Maye also has a cannon and it's much more accurate. |
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Post by Don Caballero on May 24, 2024 13:50:42 GMT -5
We can meet halfway. Let Maye start but have Bazooka Joe ready to throw a random Hail Mary in a given down from anywhere in the field at least once in every drive. Why? He completed only 38.6% of his passes 10 yards or more last year in College. Drake Maye also has a cannon and it's much more accurate. I can't really explain. Showmanship, I guess? |
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Post by texs31 on May 25, 2024 16:00:38 GMT -5
If one wants to read into player tweets, a Judon extension could be coming any minute now.
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Post by rasimon on May 25, 2024 17:03:26 GMT -5
For 2024, the Pats currently have $50MM in cap space. For 2025, the Pats are projected to have $126MM in cap space, and they could add another $7MM by releasing JuJu. Both of those numbers are tops in the NFL. So, looking at both this year and at 2025, what are they going to do with all that space? overthecap.com/salary-cap-spacepatriotsfootballnow.com/2024/03/22/new-england-patriots-have-28-unrestricted-free-agents-in-2025/nfltraderumors.co/top-100-2024-nfl-free-agents-list/www.profootballnetwork.com/nfl-free-agents-by-position/www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-draft-simulatorQB: Under contract 2025: Drake Maye, Joe Milton, Bailey Zappe Pats 2025 free agents: Jaboby Brissett Top free agents still available: Ryan Tannehill Top 2025 free agents: Dak Prescott, Jordan Love, Tua T, Jared Goff Top draft prospects: Carson Beck (GA), Shadeur Sanders (COL), Quinn Ewers (Tex), Jalon Milroe (AL) * I don't see them spending significant money on another QB. They may need to (re)sign a veteran backup in 2025 (Brissett?) depending on how Milton and Zappe look. The college class does not look so good at the moment. RB: Under contract 2025: Antonio Gibson Pats 2025 free agents: Rhamondre Stevenson, JaMychal Hasty, Ke'Shawn Vaughn, Kevin Harris (RFA) Top free agents still available: Kareem Hunt (injury), Dalvin Cook (not a good citizen) Top 2025 free agents: Najee Harris, Aaron Jones, Javonte Williams, James Conner Top draft prospects: Quinshon Judkins (OH), Ollie Gordon (OK St), Omarion Hampton (NC) Treyveon Henderson (OH), Ashton Jeanty (Boise), Raheim Sanders (AR), Tahj Brooks (Tex Tech) * Only Gibson is under contract for 2025. This year there were a bunch of good FA RBs. It would have been a good oppportunity to get a third RB to share the load with Stevenson, although it is not absolutely necessary for this year. But we will have a big problem if Stevenson leaves at the end of the year, as we don't have any young RBs to take over. I suspect they try to resign Stevenson. Next year could be a loaded class of college RBs - but given all of our other needs, do we really want to use a high pick on a RB? WR: Under contract 2025: JuJu Smith-Schuster, Kendrick Bourne, Tyquon Thornton, Kayshon Boutte, Demario Douglas, Ja'Lynn Polk, Javon Baker Pats 2025 free agents: K.J. Osborn, Jalon Reagor, Kawaan Baker (ERFA), T.J. Luther (ERFA) Top free agents still available: Cory Davis, Michael Thomas Top 2025 free agents: Justin Jefferson, CeeDee Lamb, Brandon Aiyuk, Nico Collins, Tee Higgins, Chris Godwin Top draft prospects: Luther Burden (MS), Tetaireoa McMillan (Ariz), Emeka Egbuka (OH), Tre Harris (Miss), Elic Ayomanor (Stanford), Tory Horton (Col) * I expect Thornton and Boutte are gone, and unless he really shows well in preseason, JuJu will be gone as well. We need to see how Douglas, Polk, and Baker shake out before deciding if we need additional help in 2025. I suspect we still do. TE: Under contract 2025: Hunter Henry, Jaheim Bell Pats 2025 free agents: Austin Hooper, Mitchell Wilcox, La'Michael Pettway (ERFA) Top free agents still available: no one Top 2025 free agents: Pat Freiermuth. Its pretty bleak after that. Top draft prospects: Colston Loveland (Mich), Mitchell Evans (Notre Dame), Bryson Nesbitt (NC) could be a TE or big slot. * We are fine for this year. We will likely need to add a TE at the end of this year - as Bell isn't really an in-line TE. OT: Under contract 2025: Michael Onwenu, Caedan Wallace, Vedarian Lowe Pats 2025 free agents: Chukwuma Okorafor, Calvin Anderson, Andrew Steuber (ERFA), Tyrone Wheatley (ERFA) Top free agents still available: Charles Leno, David Bakhtiari Top 2025 free agents: Tristan Wirfs, Taylor Decker, Tyron Smith? Top draft prospects: Will Campbell (LSU) Kelvin Banks (Tex), Emery Jones (LSU) - there are a few others who I listed under OG who may possibly be OTs. * Onwenu is good at RT, but LT has potential to be ugly. Hopefully, Okorafor can play LT. They are talking about Wallace at LT which looks like a huge reach. Our other guys from last year were terrible. If they are considering playing Maye this year, it would make sense to sign Charles Leno as a short-term stopgap - if he's willing to do that. Next year's FA class is Wirfs - who would be awesome - an then...? There are a few interesting looking college OTs but none project to be Joe Alt quality a the moment. IOL: Under contract 2025: David Andrews, Cole Strange, Jake Andrews, Sidy Sow, Atonio Mafi, Layden Robinson, Charles Turner? Pats 2025 free agents: Nick Leverett, Michael Jordan Top free agents still available: Connor Williams (injured), Dalton Risner Top 2025 free agents: Creed Humphrey, Zack Martin, Sam Cosmi, Quinn Meinerz, Trey Smith Top draft prospects: Tyler Booker (AL) may be a OT, Ernest Green II (GA) may be an OT, Jaedon Roberts (AL), Jonah Savaiinea (Ariz). * It was bad last year and potentially again this year. David Andrews is fine. Optimally, Onwenu would play RG but that leaves an even bigger problem at OT. Sow could take a step up (maybe?). I am not believer in any of Strange, Mafi, or Jake. I am also skeptical that Robinson raises the bar any. Right now there project to be a few good IOL FAs and a few decent looking college guys next year. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 25, 2024 17:32:27 GMT -5
I don't think they do anything big but extensions, I'd expect Judon and then maybe Peppers and Jones.
Sure seems like a see what we have and then adjust next year type arrangement.
As RJP pointed out you could target Simmons and Gilmore. Two impactful players, I don't expect that. Depending on how things go you likely see them add some veterans for training camp. Guys like JC Jackson, maybe one of the veteran LTs and maybe a RB.
It's like they did just enough if most things go right they could surprise people, but more likely they improve a little bit on last year. Then go into next off-season with good picks, tons of money and being seen as a team on the rise because of Drake Maye.
I will say again that cap number isn't actually right because the rookies with use up about 10 million this year and more next year. That's something like $22-25 million off next year's total.
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Post by rasimon on May 25, 2024 19:18:28 GMT -5
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but Over the Cap includes projected cap numbers for draftees. I assume as draftees sign, the cap numbers will adjust if the new signing is in the top 51. OTC has the Pats currently with 52MM free for 2024 and 106MM free for 2025. Both are the highest in the NFL.
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Post by rasimon on May 25, 2024 19:21:00 GMT -5
CB:
Under contract 2025: Christian Gonzalez, Marcus Jones, Marcellus Dial
Pats 2025 free agents: Jonathan Jones, Shaun Wade, Marco Wilson, Alex Austin (RFA), Azizi Hearn (ERFA)
Top free agents still available: Stephon Gilmore, Steven Nelson
Top 2025 free agents: A.J. Terrell, Charvarius Ward, Tyson Campbell, Asante Samuel Jr., Paulson Adebo, D.J. Reed (slot only?)
Top draft prospects: Travis Hunter (Col), Will Johnson (Mich), Benjamin Morrison (Notre Dame), Denzel Burke (OH)
* Not clear what the plan is for this year. Gonzalez and JJones? outside with MJones in the slot? Or Alex Austin outside and JJones in the slot? They could still use help on the outside as optimally JJones would be in the slot or possibly at FS. For next year, I would be surprised if they do not resign JJones. He seems like a Pats-lifer.
S:
Under contract 2025: Kyle Dugger, Marte Mapu, Isaiah Bolden
Pats 2025 free agents: Jabrill Peppers, Jaylinn Hawkins, Joshua Bledsoe (RFA)
Top free agents still available: Justin Simmons, Terrell Edmunds, Jamal Adams
Top 2025 free agents: Antoine Winfield Jr., Jevon Holland, Budda Baker, Talanoa Hufanga
Top draft prospects: Malaki Starks (GA), Andrew Mukuba (Tex), Xavier Nwankpa (Iowa), Xavier Watts (Notre Dame), Kevin Winston Jr (Penn St), Rod Moore (Mich), Sebastian Castro (Iowa) slot-corner?
* Yes we may have overpayed Dugger a bit, but it would be ugly without him. Also he played a lot more FS last year than he had in the past, and that's really not his best position. Peppers was excellent last year. How much will it cost to resign him though? They really need a pure FS. Fortunately, next year looks like a very good year for FSs both in FA and in the draft.
ILB:
Under contract 2025: Ja'Whaun Bentley, Sione Takitaki
Pats 2025 free agents: Jahlani Tavai, Raekwon McMillan, Christian Ellis (RFA), Joe Giles-Harris (RFA)
Top free agents still available: Shaquille Leonard
Top 2025 free agents: Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Ernest Jones, Dre Greenlaw, Nick Bolton, Pete Werner, Lavonte David, David Long Jr.
Top draft prospects: Abdul Carter (Penn St), Barrett Carter (Clemson), Jay Higgins (Iowa), Jack Kiser (Notre Dame)
* Fine for this year. If they resign Tavai they should be ok going forward as well.
OLB/DPR:
Under contract 2025: Anfernee Jennings
Pats 2025 free agents: Matthew Judon, Josh Uche, Oshane Ximines
Top free agents still available: ?
Top 2025 free agents: Haason Reddick, Chase Young, Baron Browning, Zaven Collins
Top draft prospects: James Pierce (TN), Harold Perkins (LSU), Nic Scourton (Perdue), Patrick Payton (Fla St), Jalon Walker (GA)
* Fine this year. They are going to need to do something for next year though. Judon is 32 this year. Do we really want to sign him to an expensive FA contract? Jennings is very good against the run but not against the pass. Uche will also be a FA. Fortunately, next year's draft class of OLB/DPRs looks much better than this years class. Pearce is awesome. Not clear where Perkins will play this year, but he should be very good in either ILB or OLB/DPR. Scourton was also very good.
DE:
Under contract 2025: Keion White
Pats 2025 free agents: Deatrich Wise, Bradley-King (RFA)
Top free agents still available: Carl Lawson
Top 2025 free agents: Josh Sweat, Khalil Mack, DeMarcus Lawrence
Top draft prospects: Jack Sawyer (OH), Ashton Gillote (Louiseville), J.T. Tuimoloau (OH), Landon Jackson (AR), Mykel Williams (GA)
* Assuming Wise can hold up for another year, we should be ok this year, although a bit more depth would be nice. DeMarcus Lawrence is getting up there in years but he has been excellent.
DT:
Under contract 2025: Christian Barmore, Sam Roberts
Pats 2025 free agents: Davon Godchaux, Armon Watts, Daniel Ekuale, Trysten Hill, Jeremiah Pharms (ERFA)
Top free agents still available: Abdullah Anderson?
Top 2025 free agents: Alim McNeill, Osa Odighizuwa?, Cameron Heyward will be 36
Top draft prospects: Mason Graham (Mich), Deone Walker (KY), Michael Williams (GA), Tyleik Williams (OH), Kenneth Grant (Mich), Dontay "The Godfather" Corleone (Cinn), Howard Cross (Notre Dame), Nazir Stackhouse (GA), Rylie Mills (Notre Dame)
* Good resigning of Barmore. He has really improved his run defense, making him a three-down player. After him though, they could really use an upgrade. Alim McNeill was very good last year. After McNeill, next year's FA class is not strong. However, the college class is loaded.
ST:
Under contract 2025: Joe Cardona, Bryce Barringer, Chad Ryland
Pats 2025 free agents: Joey Slye, Brendan Schooler (RFA)
Top free agents still available:
Top 2025 free agents: (K) Jake Elliott, Harrison Butker?, Evan McPherson / (P) Bryan Anger will be 36, JK Scott
Top draft prospects: no idea
* Ryland was awful last year. I would not be surprised if he goes to the practice squad. Slye looks like a huge upgrade. I assume if he looks good, then he will be resigned. I hope they can keep Schooler around.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 26, 2024 12:20:23 GMT -5
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying, but Over the Cap includes projected cap numbers for draftees. I assume as draftees sign, the cap numbers will adjust if the new signing is in the top 51. OTC has the Pats currently with 52MM free for 2024 and 106MM free for 2025. Both are the highest in the NFL. No they give average salary, when cap hits will start lower and go up. Yes they will update when signed, just pointing out both those numbers will go down, the second one by a factor of over two for the first one. |
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Post by rasimon on May 28, 2024 2:45:15 GMT -5
nfltraderumors.co/updated-nfl-trade-block/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-draft-miles-sanders-bailey-zappe-james-bradberry-among-potential-post-draft-cut-candidates/List of trade candidates. Only Pat on the list is Zappe. Surprised JuJu is not on this list. Interesting players include: RB: Dameon Pierce - was pretty good in 2022. Less so in 2023. Very good year in college 2021. We could use another RB. WR: Treylon Burks - similar comment OT: Trent Brown - after signing Brown for 4.3MM CIN drafted Mims. We could bump his salary up a bit. IOL: Ben Cleveland - 6'6 370 Has played both RG and LG. He has not played much the last 2 years, but he seems to be good in pass protection and ok as a run blocker. Could be a significant upgrade. OLB: Zaven Collins - switched from ILB to OLB last year and it seems to have worked fairly well. CB: Marshon Lattimore - ok but overpaid outside CB. S: Budda Baker - ok but expensive FS. I would rather just sign Justin Simmons if he could be had on a short term deal.
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Post by rasimon on May 28, 2024 18:34:09 GMT -5
QBs taken within the top 5 picks since 2014
Year Pick Team Player
2024 1 CHI Caleb Williams
2024 2 WAS Jayden Daniels
2024 3 NWE Drake Maye
2023 1 CAR Bryce Young
2023 2 HOU C.J. Stroud
2023 4 IND Anthony Richardson
2021 1 JAX Trevor Lawrence
2021 2 NYJ Zach Wilson
2021 3 SFO Trey Lance
2020 1 CIN Joe Burrow
2020 5 MIA Tua Tagovailoa
2019 1 ARI Kyler Murray
2018 1 CLE Baker Mayfield
2018 3 NYJ Sam Darnold
2017 2 CHI Mitchell Trubisky
2016 1 LAR Jared Goff
2016 2 PHI Carson Wentz
2015 1 TAM Jameis Winston
2015 2 TEN Marcus Mariota
2014 3 JAX Blake Bortles
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badfishnbc
Veteran
Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 519
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Post by badfishnbc on May 29, 2024 13:49:37 GMT -5
It's players-who-look-good-in-shorts SZN and I love what I'm reading out of OTAs. Tyquan, Baker, Maye - this is the copium I was born to inhale.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 29, 2024 14:51:36 GMT -5
QBs taken within the top 5 picks since 2014 Year Pick Team Player 2024 1 CHI Caleb Williams 2024 2 WAS Jayden Daniels 2024 3 NWE Drake Maye 2023 1 CAR Bryce Young 2023 2 HOU C.J. Stroud 2023 4 IND Anthony Richardson 2021 1 JAX Trevor Lawrence 2021 2 NYJ Zach Wilson 2021 3 SFO Trey Lance 2020 1 CIN Joe Burrow 2020 5 MIA Tua Tagovailoa 2019 1 ARI Kyler Murray 2018 1 CLE Baker Mayfield 2018 3 NYJ Sam Darnold 2017 2 CHI Mitchell Trubisky 2016 1 LAR Jared Goff 2016 2 PHI Carson Wentz 2015 1 TAM Jameis Winston 2015 2 TEN Marcus Mariota 2014 3 JAX Blake Bortles Funny how pretty much all of the egregious misses had just one season of being really good in college (Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Mitchell Trubinsky, Sam Darnold, Jameis Winston, Carson Wentz). Bortles never had crazy numbers and the one guy who puzzles me is Mariota. That one looked AWESOME in college, not sure how predictable it was that he'd bust. But the other busts you could all see coming. Jayden Daniels also had just 1 (ONE) season of being really good and Richardson really wasn't ever very good at all. I still have faith in Bryce Young, although size is a real concern there. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 30, 2024 11:43:15 GMT -5
Multiple people raising alarm bells about what the Patriots are saying about Drake Maye. It's like they don't understand Wold spent a ton of time with the Packers and his father is Ron Wolf former Packers GM. They are going to bring Maye along slowly and its incredibly smart!
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Post by texs31 on Jun 3, 2024 8:14:16 GMT -5
Stueber to be waived, per Mike Reiss.
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Post by rasimon on Jun 3, 2024 12:00:24 GMT -5
Over the Cap - Pats current cap space
2024 46mm
2025 95mm
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Post by texs31 on Jun 3, 2024 12:51:15 GMT -5
I know this was discussed a bit above but that 25 number isn't correct.
1. Looking at the calculation on OTC, they are arriving at the 25 number by subtracting the Top 51 commitments (which is actually everybody who is currently under contract for 25) from the Cap Number. According to the site, that is 260,000,000 - 164,690,445 = 95,309,555
2. The list of players included in that 164.7M does NOT include Polk and Robinson (current unsigned draft picks) and they will certainly end up in the Top 51 even if nothing else happens (bc there are currently only 49 players under contract for 25).
3. But more importantly, that 260M will NOT be 260M if their 24 space remains at 46M. BC that 46 million would rollover to 25 to adjust the Pats Cap Number. So unless, miraculously, the NLTBE bonuses offset that 46M number, the 2 numbers can't both be true.
It's perfectly fine to say that the Patriots project to have plenty of cap space next year without assigning a false number to it.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jun 3, 2024 13:06:01 GMT -5
I know this was discussed a bit above but that 25 number isn't correct. 1. Looking at the calculation on OTC, they are arriving at the 25 number by subtracting the Top 51 commitments (which is actually everybody who is currently under contract for 25) from the Cap Number. According to the site, that is 260,000,000 - 164,690,445 = 95,309,555 2. The list of players included in that 164.7M does NOT include Polk and Robinson (current unsigned draft picks) and they will certainly end up in the Top 51 even if nothing else happens (bc there are currently only 49 players under contract for 25). 3. But more importantly, that 260M will NOT be 260M if their 24 space remains at 46M. BC that 46 million would rollover to 25 to adjust the Pats Cap Number. So unless, miraculously, the NLTBE bonuses offset that 46M number, the 2 numbers can't both be true. It's perfectly fine to say that the Patriots project to have plenty of cap space next year without assigning a false number to it. If they end up with $35m, in unused space, it’s pretty comfortable saying they will be over $100m. |
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Post by texs31 on Jun 3, 2024 13:36:45 GMT -5
Right but if they, somehow, were to stay at 46M for this year then their 2025 would be projected at ~120M. So why attach a number to it when the number isn't reflecting things we absolutely know to be true (those 2 picks WILL get signed, all other cost of doing business adjustments THIS season and how that all impacts next year's number).
Just seems like it's no better than any random number chosen to indicate that the Patriots are likely to have lots of room next year.
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